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#201 phantom II

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 17:18

I really like these vehicles.
http://www.carzunlim...view_00480.html

http://en.wikipedia....rysler_Pacifica

http://www.buick.com/enclave/

The Odesy uses too much gas and extremely poor tire wear. The rear camber gain is like and old VW beetle swing axle.



Originally posted by Canuck
And while I'm ranting about vehicle availability - why is it you can have your European whatsit in 52 flavours of gasoline, diesel or Flex fuel, 14 different transmissions, 43 choices of engines, 72 variations of body style for any given model family and 64,000 different colours but only if you live in Europe. Those same whatsit brands are here but the cars come in silver, grey, greyish silver, dark silver, metallic grey silver and silvery metallic greyish. They use $15/gallon gas, come with 700 speed automatics, snobby dealers and are only available as coupes or sedans and powered with emission-choked imitations of their European cousins?

I have 2 kids, 2 car seats, a wife and a dog that outweighs any two of the others you want to to put together. We're a family. We go places together. Sometimes we go to far-away places together - dog and all. I don't want a testicular-crushing, estrogen-emitting minivan. I don't care if it seats the Waltons, all their pets and has fancy automatic doors on both sides and the rear. I aint' getting one. I won't! I. Still. Have. My. Nuts. Damn You! But that doesn't mean I want an SUV either. Why can't I get a station wagon that doesn't look like the faux wood panelling stickers just fell off? Why can't I have a wagon that intimidates the neighbour's wife and causes her to make rude caveman jokes about me? Why does having a family in North America condemn you to driving cars designed by eunichs?



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#202 imaginesix

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 17:31

McGuire;

All true, but even if the Charger sells enough it will only be for one year.

#203 McGuire

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 17:54

Originally posted by imaginesix
McGuire;

All true, but even if the Charger sells enough it will only be for one year.


I'm sure you meant the Challenger and not the Charger, but your point is well taken.

For me the question is: will the Challenger have soft enough pricing and a broad enough option list to be another Mustang, or will it creep too far up market and become another Thunderbird? The current (S197/D2C platform) Mustang was positioned as a high-volume car and is still selling strong four years into its product cycle, but the most recent Thunderbird... once the car absorbed the initial demand for an enormous two-seat convertible, sales nosed straight down. Chrysler's strategy with the Challenger is to hold its high-volume models until MY2 so we have two years to wait and see instead of just one.

#204 McGuire

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 18:00

Originally posted by phantom II
I really like these vehicles.
http://en.wikipedia....rysler_Pacifica


Then get one soon because it is going away at the end of the '08 model year. The Pacifica is one of the vehicles that got the ax, along with the Magnum, PT Cruiser convertible, and the Crossfire. There will be some kind of replacement in around '10 sharing the Dodge Journey platform.

#205 Todd

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 18:07

Rover is Chrysler's future.

#206 imaginesix

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 19:41

Originally posted by McGuire
Chrysler's strategy with the Challenger is to hold its high-volume models until MY2 so we have two years to wait and see instead of just one.

Did I just call you a fool?

#207 Fat Boy

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 21:02

Originally posted by phantom II
I really like these vehicles.

The Odesy uses too much gas and extremely poor tire wear. The rear camber gain is like and old VW beetle swing axle.


Who am I kidding. I should get one of these. Even with $4 a gallon gas I'd probably still come out good in the long run.

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#208 McGuire

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 22:10

Originally posted by imaginesix
Did I just call you a fool?


I didn't take it that way. Why are you asking?

#209 imaginesix

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 22:22

Just wondering what the full significance of my (and your) words are.

#210 zac510

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 23:08

If you only have 2 kids and a dog aren't you still financially better off to buy a small/med car but then rent a large car for the 2 weeks a year you take a roadtrip?

#211 phantom II

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 23:09

My bad. The press is driving it today in Lansing. LS7 with a blower and 500hp. The hole chassis has been revised with new suspension and differential. I was thinking of the Camaro.

Originally posted by McGuire


No, the CTS-V is Sigma II platform and Heinricy's group in Warren owns that. GMPD now has a permanent office and shop at the 'Ring so yeah, lots of laps there. The Zeta platform (Pontiac G8, Camaro) is the Holden deal. Word is there may even be a VE Ute here with GMC badging soon. If there is a 2011 DTS it will be Zeta platform, but chances are the DTS and STS will be folded together by then. By the way, the CTS (which is built only in Lansing) will be exported to Australia in Q4 2008. 310 hp V6 and 6-speed auto.



#212 phantom II

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Posted 10 December 2007 - 23:12

Nice car, 69 Chevy wagon with Vette wheels. LS2 will fix the gas milleage. Love how the tail gate works.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fat Boy
[B]

Who am I kidding. I should get one of these. Even with $4 a gallon gas I'd probably still come out good in the long run.

#213 imaginesix

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 00:12

My buddy's project. (minus the suspension mods)

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Pristine 1990 with 80 000 k (stored for 7 years) for $800 from the junkyard. Wouldn't start for weeks no matter what we did, almost convinced him to put an LS1 in it but today he found the problem (ign switch). Bastard.

#214 Canuck

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 00:29

Originally posted by zac510
If you only have 2 kids and a dog aren't you still financially better off to buy a small/med car but then rent a large car for the 2 weeks a year you take a roadtrip?

I'm not asking to be able to take the clan and our camping gear with everything inside the car - I'm not opposed to a roof-mounted carrier for events like that. Keep in mind my one larvae is only a year old and despite having relative success the first time around, my other half insists on carting around half the house in a collection of backpacks and diaper bags.

You're right though - 90% of the time what we have will do just fine, much like the 20" TV I rarely watch. This doesn't preclude my wanting something better.

#215 Fat Boy

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 00:48

Originally posted by phantom II
[B]Nice car, 69 Chevy wagon with Vette wheels. LS2 will fix the gas milleage. Love how the tail gate works.

I'm only 1/2 kidding. A Kingswood with modern running gear wouldn't be a horrible car to drive. The Kingswood tailgate was pretty cool. There's probably enough room in the glove box for a pair of ski's.

#216 cheapracer

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 04:17

Originally posted by Fat Boy


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There's always the Mazda 6 wagon. That's what my wife drives and we've had pretty good road trips in it. Of course, it got dropped from next year's model line.


I drive a 2006 2.3 sedan, Ive been eyeing the wagon thats recently come available here, maybe the production line was shifted to here (China).

#217 cheapracer

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 04:23

Originally posted by imaginesix
My buddy's project. (minus the suspension mods)

Posted Image


I've wondered for years why some of the street rodders dont get into old Volvo's (pronouned Wolwo's by the Swedish) and old Benzes

#218 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 06:26

My dad lives in Wisconsin and drives one of these.

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It is a surprisingly nice car, and enough torque to noticeably rock the vehicle at a stop light. Good in heavy snow with AWD, but the rest of the time I'd be out in a Renault 11, 1.2litre automatic. FWD so if you jabbed the brakes in winter and had a little trailing throttle on you could lock the rears. Even if you looped it, it'd run out of momentum by the stop sign. In the dry you could do a 180 from a dead stop on steering lock alone. Ridiculous fun. mpg too high to count, and for some bizarre reason they're all over the place in Northern Wisconsin. You could easily pick up one for a few hundred that may be missing one crucial piece, but you'd use it as a salvage boat for the other one.

#219 McGuire

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 12:26

Those big old Wagoneers are much loved unto this day. There are a couple of outfits remanufacturing them now. Not cheap but they will rebuild to your specs and colors.

The beauty of it all is this: if the automakers do not make exactly what you want (not surprising... how can you make a car for everyone, especially you fussy pricks) you can build or modify your own. Then if you don't have what you want you can bitch at yourself.

If I were in need of a big station wagon I would start with a '91-'96 Chevy Caprice/Buick Roadmaster SW. They look good lowered with wheels, and you can get all kinds of suspension and brake upgrades in the aftermarket, or just use the cop shocks etc or the Impala SS pieces. Then just throw in a GMPP crate engine and you are good to go. 360 hp, 20+ mpg. Great tow vehicle too. You could do the whole thing for less than 10 Gs in four weeks and still have something really nice.

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#220 McGuire

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 12:40

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Ridiculous fun. mpg too high to count, and for some bizarre reason they're all over the place in Northern Wisconsin. You could easily pick up one for a few hundred that may be missing one crucial piece, but you'd use it as a salvage boat for the other one.


They were dumped there. At the time those cars were new, American Motors (based in Wisconsin) was owned by Renault and folks could buy them on the employee program for $7.98 or something.

The Renault Alliance (instantly renamed the Appliance) was the Motor Trend 1983 Car of the Year, strange but true. Horrid little POS but fun to thrash about with. There was even a spec racing series for them in the SCCA. Sustained hard cornering + exposure to road salt would cause the engine to fall out on the ground.

#221 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 13:05

My first was either a 7 or a 9, in silver. I used to take it to all the races and loved nothing more than showing up to something like a Skip Barber race and parking it next to a new 911 or BMW and having the instructors asking me questions about my car and not the doctor nearby. It of course had an old style Renault Sport F1 decal on it. They almost used it as a pace car in a non-points race once. Apparently during some instructor tarining sessions they'd ride around in one and under braking the guys sitting in the back would rock from side to side.

I had a red one after that, which was a hatchback. I went back to Arizona after I graduated high school and took it with me. After a few weeks it kept dying on the highway on the drive home. No reason. I'd get it towed to my local garage, it'd sit over night, I'd go in and describe what happened. They'd go out and test it, find nothing. We'd repeat forever. Eventually they drove it long enough for it to warm up. Apparently it's long life in Wisconsin had put all sorts of shit into the fuel lines(?) from the fuel tank and other bits corroding and in the Arizona heat it'd warm up enough to enter the fuel and after a while it'd die. They offered to fix the system for, if i recall, 700. I called my dad up and he knew immediately he could get another car and enough spares to rebuild it for less than 700, so he told me to abandon it.

We also had the 'GT' model briefly. Convertible top, touring car esque rims, a racey wheel and some agressive body trim. A little more power too. I brushed a snow bank one day and from then on everytime I went into a left turn something made a terrible dragging nose at the front end. It sounded terminal. The car worked perfectly and when you inspected it at rest everything was fine. Of course at speed the spare key (which we had no idea existed or that it was mounted in the wheel arch) would now hang free into the wheel rim going around a corner.

I'd have loved to drive for Briatore, when a journo asked me about the oddity of an American racing for Renault I could say "well, I used to slipstream my Renault 11 automatic behind TRD transporters to Indianapolis, and drove it on the Grand Prix circuit"

#222 phantom II

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 14:48

Wagoneers were the Range Rovers of today. A prestige machine. There a certain vehicle that bring great joy to me and these big Chevy wagons do just that. It reminds me of my MK X Jag which was trashed in the Hurricane Wilma two years ago along with my SSR 2500 duallie diesel project. I need another project and this beast stirs my juices.
The Lusso was easy to fix because all parts are available. A 63 Split Window Coupe is an entirely different matter. Certain trim parts are as scarce as rocking horse shit. I got the best guy in the business fixing it. A mid 60s Vette is not a car, it is family. I still have words with God about that. What kind of guy would knowingly **** up a Lusso and a 63 Vette. As you can tell, I'm not over it yet.

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Originally posted by McGuire
Those big old Wagoneers are much loved unto this day. There are a couple of outfits remanufacturing them now. Not cheap but they will rebuild to your specs and colors.

The beauty of it all is this: if the automakers do not make exactly what you want (not surprising... how can you make a car for everyone, especially you fussy pricks) you can build or modify your own. Then if you don't have what you want you can bitch at yourself.

If I were in need of a big station wagon I would start with a '91-'96 Chevy Caprice/Buick Roadmaster SW. They look good lowered with wheels, and you can get all kinds of suspension and brake upgrades in the aftermarket, or just use the cop shocks etc or the Impala SS pieces. Then just throw in a GMPP crate engine and you are good to go. 360 hp, 20+ mpg. Great tow vehicle too. You could do the whole thing for less than 10 Gs in four weeks and still have something really nice.



#223 phantom II

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 14:56

I goofed again, the clam shell tailgate was not on the 69 wagon as I implied but the 71-75 wagon.

Originally posted by Fat Boy


I'm only 1/2 kidding. A Kingswood with modern running gear wouldn't be a horrible car to drive. The Kingswood tailgate was pretty cool. There's probably enough room in the glove box for a pair of ski's.



#224 Todd

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 15:17

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
for some bizarre reason they're all over the place in Northern Wisconsin.


I suspect that 'bizarre reason' is because they were built in Kenosha.

#225 Todd

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 18:29

Anyone know how the dissolution of the Daimler-Chrysler marriage will effect Dodge Sprinter van production?

#226 phantom II

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 18:37

The 19% Daimler retains in the deal is that.


Originally posted by Todd
Anyone know how the dissolution of the Daimler-Chrysler marriage will effect Dodge Sprinter van production?



#227 McGuire

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Posted 11 December 2007 - 20:49

Originally posted by Todd


I suspect that 'bizarre reason' is because they were built in Kenosha.


Right: Kenosha, Wisconsin. Ke-no-sha is an old Indian name that means "Don't stop the line."

The CEO of American Motors was George Romney. Interesting guy, born in a Mormon community in Mexico as his family had fled the USA, pursued for polygamy. After he left AMC he became Governor of Michigan, was HUD secretary in the Nixon administration. Family has more money than God. His son Mitt is currently running for President. His other son Scott is a nice person.

#228 imaginesix

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Posted 29 December 2007 - 07:05

Originally posted by McGuire
I'm sure you meant the Challenger and not the Charger, but your point is well taken.

Yes I meant Challenger, thank you.

Speaking of which, it's been bugging me for a while but WTF were they thinking when they named it (and re-named it) Challenger?!? What will the sales slogan be, "Nearly the best"???

#229 Engineguy

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Posted 29 December 2007 - 08:12

Originally posted by imaginesix
Speaking of which, it's been bugging me for a while but WTF were they thinking when they named it (and re-named it) Challenger?!? What will the sales slogan be, "Nearly the best"???

Better yet, given their apparent desire to recreate and cash in on the the mystique of the Hemi all over again, why didn't they name the new pony car Barracuda instead of Challenger, thus reviving the famous Hemi-Cuda moniker. Granted the Barracuda was the Plymouth and the Challenger was the Dodge pony car originally, but I don't think that would bother anyone (and the Barracuda name has a much longer history).
.

#230 McGuire

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Posted 29 December 2007 - 12:24

There was talk of adding a 'Cuda at some point in the product cycle but as time goes on that becomes less likely.

One of the problems is the Cuda identifiers don't work nearly as well on a modern platform and proportions. There is a Cuda making the rounds, was at SEMA. Have you seen it? Not much to look at.

#231 Todd

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Posted 29 December 2007 - 16:40

Do you think they can get the cable networks to put 'Vanishing Point' into heavy rotation in time for the intro?

#232 Engineguy

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Posted 30 December 2007 - 01:11

Originally posted by Todd
Do you think they can get the cable networks to put 'Vanishing Point' into heavy rotation in time for the intro?

Hey, that explains it... the timing of the naming of the car probably coincided with all that hooha over everyone (now screwed) spending their kids' college fund on a down payment on a replica of that other movie star car, Elanor. :rolleyes:

#233 Engineguy

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 11:06

Originally posted by McGuire
There was talk of adding a 'Cuda at some point in the product cycle but as time goes on that becomes less likely.
One of the problems is the Cuda identifiers don't work nearly as well on a modern platform and proportions. There is a Cuda making the rounds, was at SEMA. Have you seen it? Not much to look at.


This is the Hemi 'Cuda that BBP independently commissioned Gaffoglio Family Metalcrafters to build on the same platform (i.e. 4" shortened Charger) as the new Challenger. It was shown to someone at Chrysler and they requested it for showing at SEMA to gauge reaction.

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Looks good to me.

Perhaps better than the '08 Challenger...

Posted Image
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#234 McGuire

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 13:52

Not very independent. Chrysler supplied all the math to Metalcrafters to CNC a foam plug for the carbon fiber body. This is the same way the first two Challenger Concepts were built. The Cuda is built on 2007 Charger that was deskinned and shortened 4 inches, and has a complete Charger IP and interior... not fully tricked out like the Challengers. Doing a "Cuda" has a built-in problem as there is no such thing as a Plymouth division anymore. Hence the beard. I see the car sold at B-J for $150K or something... ouch, the cost was $500K if it was a nickel.

As concept cars all three of these cars were sort of cheated up... for example, to achieve pony car proportions on the LX floorpan, the body and track width were blown out four inches. This is one of the things the stylists had to put back to real for the production Challenger. BTW, the chief designer on the production car is Jeff Gale, Tom's son. Tom Gale worked on the original '70 Challenger along with Cam Cameron.