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Max and his Ferrari Army.


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#1 WDC1992

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 00:20

Mosley relieved Raikkonen won

Why don't they give Ferrari both titles at the beginning of every season and see who can come in second, that would make life so much easier for Max, Bernie and the FIA, no more pretending.

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#2 slick1jayj

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 00:39

Asked if he was pleased to see Raikkonen pip the two McLaren men to the title, Mosley told The Guardian newspaper, "Relieved because, if it had been either of the two McLaren drivers, there would always have been a question mark. I'm not sure how big a question mark but it would have been there. And that puts you in an incredibly difficult position. I think we've been very lucky."



But can you deny what he said was true if McLaren had won under shadow of "Spygate"? Move along nothing left to see in this thread.

#3 hobbes

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 00:43

i bet Mosle and LdM are the same person :eek: sigh..

#4 Chiara

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 01:19

Originally posted by WDC1992
Mosley relieved Raikkonen won

Why don't they give Ferrari both titles at the beginning of every season and see who can come in second, that would make life so much easier for Max, Bernie and the FIA, no more pretending.


Some Formula 1 fans are a happy-go-lucky glass-is-half-full type lot arent they? ;)

#5 J2NH

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 01:22

Originally posted by WDC1992
Mosley relieved Raikkonen won

Why don't they give Ferrari both titles at the beginning of every season and see who can come in second, that would make life so much easier for Max, Bernie and the FIA, no more pretending.


Do you mean like they used to do before 2000?

#6 Juan Kerr

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 01:41

What did the British racing scene do to upset little Maxie so much ? Did they screw him in the arse ?? He was a massive failure when he tried to join the party though wasn't he, it might be that. It seems to be McLaren he absolutely beats himself up over the most.

#7 Ricardo F1

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 02:47

Of course the FIA had every opportunity to prove that the McLaren in 2007 had absolutely no Ferrari DNA. And yet they'd rather pass ont hat inspection for the most part.

Rearrange the letters to describe Mosley - ntuc.

#8 Ricardo F1

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 02:48

Originally posted by Juan Kerr
What did the British racing scene do to upset little Maxie so much ? Did they screw him in the arse ?? He was a massive failure when he tried to join the party though wasn't he, it might be that. It seems to be McLaren he absolutely beats himself up over the most.

March. End of story.

#9 Group B

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 09:33

Originally posted by WDC1992
Mosley relieved Raikkonen won

Why don't they give Ferrari both titles at the beginning of every season and see who can come in second, that would make life so much easier for Max, Bernie and the FIA, no more pretending.

:yawn:
So he's glad to have avoided the inevitable controversy caused if a team that cheated won. What's your problem? :confused:

Why not take off your tin-foil hat for a minute and tell us why, if it's SO rigged, Ferrari weren't given the titles in all those other years? Or why such a heavy penalty for MS at Monaco? Or why McLaren weren't thrown out of the WDC this year? Etc, etc, etc ...

#10 femi

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 10:25

Is is possible that the FIA was actually set up to sell Ferraris without it actually been said or written?

#11 Group B

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 10:36

Tricky, since the FIA predates Ferrari by 25 years.

#12 giacomo

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 10:40

Mosley is absolutely right in that case: Had Hamilton or Alonso won the title there always would have been the talk about a tainted champion, a la Schumacher 1994.

No wonder why people here feel the need to bash him because of that correct statement.

#13 glorius&victorius

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 11:02

Originally posted by giacomo
Mosley is absolutely right in that case: Had Hamilton or Alonso won the title there always would have been the talk about a tainted champion, a la Schumacher 1994.

No wonder why people here feel the need to bash him because of that correct statement.


With this comments Max is again undermining (or questioning) the FIA decision not to throw the Mc-drivers out of the the drivers championship.

I wonder why the President of the FIA would "distance" himself from and not support decisions taken by his own organization. Why does he feel its neccesary to put his own view out there? Why this differentiation is needed.

Is it to raise himself above the FIA?

It also makes me wonder what impact that has on the FIA? How good does the FIA look if it takes measures and decisions, which are publicly questioned by its President.

Comments like Mosley's in the last month have brought the FIA the image of "witch hunting mclaren". If the President remained united with his own organization and the measures and decisions it took, and not bringing in his personal views and opinions into this, the FIA wouldnt have come under so much criticism.

Yes, Mclaren came out as the biggest loser from the spy saga. But also the FIA has come out less credible, with question marks hanging of the handling of this whole affair. For sure Mosley's behaviour hasnt taken away these question marks.


#14 ensign14

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 11:33

He'd've been better served to have said "in the public mind, there might have been a question mark", or even better saying "he won the most races". But our esteemed President has to have a dig at McLaren, doesn't he? It's almost as if he wants all the non-manufacturer teams out of F1, hence him not bothering Toyota with their on-the-record IP theft.

#15 giacomo

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 11:40

As if McLaren Mercedes would be a non-manufacturer team.

#16 ensign14

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 11:58

You think Max is antipathetic to Ron Dennis or Mercedes?

#17 Risil

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 12:50

Originally posted by J2NH


Do you mean like they used to do before 2000?


Well, he had a pretty good go at Imola in 1982. :lol:

#18 carbonfibre

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 14:19

Originally posted by Group B

:yawn:
So he's glad to have avoided the inevitable controversy caused if a team that cheated won. What's your problem? :confused:

Why not take off your tin-foil hat for a minute and tell us why, if it's SO rigged, Ferrari weren't given the titles in all those other years? Or why such a heavy penalty for MS at Monaco? Or why McLaren weren't thrown out of the WDC this year? Etc, etc, etc ...

Now Group B don't make to much sense, im sure he can't handle that.;)

#19 J2NH

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 14:22

Originally posted by Risil


Well, he had a pretty good go at Imola in 1982. :lol:


Lost me with that one. Lots of stuff going on in 1982.

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#20 Enkei

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 14:52

He is right perhaps, but he's not the right person to say it.

#21 Risil

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 15:37

Originally posted by J2NH


Lost me with that one. Lots of stuff going on in 1982.


In fact I think Max was on a break then. But his mates at FOCA (surely acting with his advice) did an excellent job of handing Ferrari the 1982 San Marino GP. And the sillies still nearly lost it.

#22 superbobik

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 16:56

Originally posted by WDC1992
Mosley relieved Raikkonen won

Why don't they give Ferrari both titles at the beginning of every season and see who can come in second, that would make life so much easier for Max, Bernie and the FIA, no more pretending.


:lol:

#23 kismet

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 17:06

Just out of interest (and Yuletide boredom), when was the last time Ferrari won anything on merit, i.e. not by default because they're friends with benefits with the governing body? Has that ever happened? And is there any chance - however tiny - that it ever will (again)?

#24 Slowinfastout

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 17:08

Originally posted by ensign14
You think Max is antipathetic to Ron Dennis or Mercedes?


Thats borderline trolling...

#25 Chiara

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 17:36

It is increasingly hard to find any sympathy for McLaren and an element of their supporters when there is a constant barrage of complaints that the FIA are in bed with Ferrari.

Especially if you consider the fondness McLaren's senior management have displayed over the years of using the FIA to instigate investigations into other teams and their infringements. No doubt it was perfectly acceptable then when the FIA were dolling out punishments or changes in the regulations then, because it favoured McLaren. Renault's Mass Dampers and Ferrari's Flexi-Floor come to mind, to name but a few.

But it appears the moment that McLaren are caught in the wrong, it's the FIA in bed with Ferrari and McLaren have done nothing wrong, and it's all a witch-hunt because Max doesn't like Ron. oh please.

Sorry, I have absolutely nothing against McLaren supporters and for the most part you are all a nice bunch, I have no issue with you complaining about Max's political stance in the media when really he should be keeping his opinions to himself...but to go around claiming it's a conspiracy to hand the titles to Ferrari and denying the basic facts that McLaren have been found and admitted to being in the wrong.....well it smacks of double standards to me. If Ferrari had done the same thing and been in recipt of stolen IP of McLarens, and systematically lied about it...you would all be jumping up and down and baying for blood and demanding they were thrown out of F1 for good. So please don't be two-faced about the subject.

Just in case you have readily forgotten the WMSC is made up of 16 members from different countries, many of whom are lawyers, who all have a valid vote. If it was up to Max you wouldn't be in the 2008-2009 championships period. So the fact that you are, shows you it's not quite the witch-hunt you think it is.

#26 Slowinfastout

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 17:39

You're sidestepping the point which is that Max doesnt like Ron.

That doesnt sound like a conspiracy to me...

#27 Group B

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 17:43

Originally posted by kismet
Just out of interest (and Yuletide boredom), when was the last time Ferrari won anything on merit, i.e. not by default because they're friends with benefits with the governing body? Has that ever happened? And is there any chance - however tiny - that it ever will (again)?

About 2 months ago.

#28 giacomo

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 19:29

Originally posted by ensign14
You think Max is antipathetic to Ron Dennis or Mercedes?

:confused:
Strange question, without the slightest connection to your bemusing claim of McLaren Mercedes being a non-manufacturer team.

Whatever, I have no reason to assume that Max Mosley loves Mercedes-Benz.
After all they were spearheads of the Grand Prix Manufacturers Association that threatened to disempower the FIA.

#29 giacomo

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 19:31

Originally posted by Slowinfastout
You're sidestepping the point which is that Max doesnt like Ron.

That doesnt sound like a conspiracy to me...

Well, it seems to be an established fact that Mosley doesn't like Dennis and vice versa.

This doesn't make Mosleys statements in question incorrect ones.

#30 ensign14

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 19:37

Originally posted by Slowinfastout


Thats borderline trolling...

Why? It's a serious question. Mosley doesn't like Dennis, he's admitted it. Does he like Haug?

#31 giacomo

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 19:45

Originally posted by ensign14

Why? It's a serious question. Mosley doesn't like Dennis, he's admitted it. Does he like Haug?

It's a totally irrelevant question.


BTW, Mosley did not admit that he doesn't like Dennis. Actually he said that he likes Dennis, but despises his attitude towards F1.

"I quite like him," he said. "But I do despise - I think that's probably the right word - his attitude to Formula One, when he says, for example, that he's passionate about Formula One. That's not true.
"He's passionate about McLaren finishing first and second in every race, which is his job, but it's not the same thing as being passionate about formula one and it's foolish to pretend that it is."



Just one of many errors of yours.

#32 ensign14

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 19:49

He said it another time, I don't remember when exactly. Funny however that he didn't come out with similar statements in relation to Ferrari which has the exact same attitude.

#33 giacomo

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 19:52

Originally posted by ensign14
He said it another time, I don't remember when exactly. Funny however that he didn't come out with similar statements in relation to Ferrari which has the exact same attitude.

Well, Ferrari doesn't harp about their own impeccable reputation and integrity and how much they are caring about the best for the sport whenever a microphone is in sight.

Very unlike Honest Ron.

#34 HSJ

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 20:12

Originally posted by WDC1992


Why don't they give Ferrari both titles at the beginning of every season and see who can come in second, t


Like in 05 and 06? Prior to 00?

Why don't the FIA just hand the title to whomever is the most commercially valuable every year, like MS or LH? Can't say they are not trying...

#35 ensign14

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 20:15

Originally posted by giacomo
Well, Ferrari doesn't harp about their own impeccable reputation and integrity and how much they are caring about the best for the sport whenever a microphone is in sight.

They did when protesting McLaren.

#36 giacomo

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 20:58

Originally posted by ensign14

They did when protesting McLaren.

You also claimed that McLaren is a non-manufacturer team, and that Mosley admitted not to like Dennis. :p

In the meantime your credibility is close to zero. Very much like the credibility of your fave team.

#37 Chiara

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 21:20

Originally posted by ensign14

They did when protesting McLaren.


Perhaps you would be so kind to provide us with a link to the appropriate quotes/articles, so we can read these ourselves :)

As thus far I have trawled back through every quote Ferrari have made since the Spy scandal erupted and I can't seem to find any mention of it.

#38 WDC1992

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 21:24

So he's glad to have avoided the inevitable controversy caused if a team that cheated won. What's your problem?




So group B i see you search the BB looking to defend Ferrari and Schumacher where ever you see fit, why don't you be a good chap and leave this one alone?.

#39 ensign14

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 21:27

Originally posted by giacomo
You also claimed that McLaren is a non-manufacturer team, and that Mosley admitted not to like Dennis. :p

You're now going to show me how many cars McLaren make.

Originally posted by giacomo
In the meantime your credibility is close to zero. Very much like the credibility of your fave team.

My favourite team left F1 in 1982. There's a clue in the username. I do not have a favourite team.

Chiara, I've been trawling through the Autosport archives, but can't find it either. Then again I get more hits looking for Ferrari July Todt Montezemolo than I do for Ferrari July Todt... :confused:

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#40 giacomo

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 21:29

Originally posted by ensign14
My favourite team left F1 in 1982. There's a clue in the username. I do not have a favourite team.

This does not increase your credibility. :)

#41 undersquare

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 21:32

Originally posted by giacomo
You also claimed that McLaren is a non-manufacturer team, and that Mosley admitted not to like Dennis. :p

In the meantime your credibility is close to zero. Very much like the credibility of your fave team.


Didn't Ferrari claim to be an independent team a year or so ago? Something to do with the GPMA? McLaren are technically independent, I suppose, Mercedes only have a minority stake. There were rumours a month ago that Mercedes may be considering a separate Mercedes-branded team because Ron won't let them have a controlling stake (quite right if you look at the Mercedes SLR McLaren).

There is not the slightest doubt that Max is out to get Ron, for reasons that have accumulated steadily since about 1978 when Frank and Ron had a clash with Max and Bernie over motor sport magazines.

#42 Ricardo F1

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 22:55

Originally posted by giacomo
It's a totally irrelevant question.


BTW, Mosley did not admit that he doesn't like Dennis. Actually he said that he likes Dennis, but despises his attitude towards F1.

No, Mosley despises the fact that he was a failure at what has been so successful doing.

#43 ensign14

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Posted 25 December 2007 - 23:25

The weird thing is I don't think Max was a failure in Formula 1. Three wins in 7 seasons is not great, but March was winning in almost every formula going, they'd been at the sharp end of the grid with Peterson and had they been careful to keep their eye on the ball (race-winners in 1976, Robin Herd sussing ground effect in 1977 but when the F1 team was winding down and had the mighty Alex Ribeiro as their number one driver so no-one could be arsed) they could have been very competitive in the next couple of years...

#44 Buttoneer

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Posted 27 December 2007 - 11:37

Max's 2004 resignation speech. Max refers to a team principal who is not the 'sharpest knife in the box' (being an unnamed Ron Dennis) in the same way as he referred to Sir Jackie as the 'Certified Half-Wit' also unnamed. I'd say that's not the language of love, but probably also not the language of hate. Certainly not the language of mutual respect.

Max has also publicly said that he sees his role as the protector of Ferrari against the British F1 mafia.

Personally, I think it's easy to read that as a positive bias towards Ferrari but I believe that the truth is more of an antipathy towards Ron & McLaren. Ferrari doesn't need Max's help to be a success, but I think max can;t help himself but be spiteful where Ron and McLaren is concerned.

#45 ensign14

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Posted 27 December 2007 - 11:52

Originally posted by Buttoneer
Max's 2004 resignation speech. Max refers to a team principal who is not the 'sharpest knife in the box' (being an unnamed Ron Dennis) in the same way as he referred to Sir Jackie as the 'Certified Half-Wit' also unnamed.

You think that was Ron? I thought it was a certain other person no longer involved in team ownership...

#46 Owen

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Posted 27 December 2007 - 12:17

Originally posted by Buttoneer
Max's 2004 resignation speech. Max refers to a team principal who is not the 'sharpest knife in the box' (being an unnamed Ron Dennis) in the same way as he referred to Sir Jackie as the 'Certified Half-Wit' also unnamed. I'd say that's not the language of love, but probably also not the language of hate. Certainly not the language of mutual respect.

Max has also publicly said that he sees his role as the protector of Ferrari against the British F1 mafia.

Personally, I think it's easy to read that as a positive bias towards Ferrari but I believe that the truth is more of an antipathy towards Ron & McLaren. Ferrari doesn't need Max's help to be a success, but I think max can;t help himself but be spiteful where Ron and McLaren is concerned.


I would agree with that. I suppose both Bernie and Max think that Ferrari is central to F1 racing, they believe it is crucial that Ferrari are there and will go to greater lengths to appease them as opposed to other teams. Ferrari fans will of course disagree with this view.

#47 Hacklerf

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Posted 27 December 2007 - 12:36

You guys are absolutely mental to be even starting a thread on this comment of Max, so you are saying there would be no question if McLaren had won? heh!

#48 Buttoneer

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Posted 27 December 2007 - 13:23

Originally posted by ensign14

You think that was Ron? I thought it was a certain other person no longer involved in team ownership...

It was a widely reported comment and most commentators assumed it referred to Ron, just as with the halkf-wit comments. The BBC even put the point to Ron here. It think it was the addition of a comment about the Principal having a 'manager' always in tow. The 'certain other person' I think you are referring to probably couldn't afford to hire a manager...

Ron said that the comments were "not too presidential and certainly not too factual" which is a charge we can continue to level at Max almost four years on. At least he is consistent.

#49 LePatron

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Posted 27 December 2007 - 14:00

You and Ensign are both right; it was directed to Stoddart, Ron's unofficial spokesperson at the time.

#50 ensign14

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Posted 27 December 2007 - 14:17

Originally posted by Buttoneer
The 'certain other person' I think you are referring to probably couldn't afford to hire a manager...

I thought it was an ex-journalist in that position. Heh.