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1962-1983: the years of fast racing 'mopeds'!


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#751 renzo

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Posted 27 April 2009 - 12:56

Originally posted by mike_cook


HI ALL! I AM MIKE COOK... I USED TO BE A KEEN RACER AND I ALSO OWNED RUDGE! MY DAUGHTER HAS BEEN TRYING TO FIND ALL ABOUT ME BACK IN THE DAY AND HAS COME ACROSS A FEW ITEMS AND ARTICLES.. INCLUDING THIS FORUM! ITS GREAT TO SEE THERE IS STILL SUCH A PASSION FOR 'OLD SCHOOL' RACING! PICTURES ARE EXCELLENT AND I'VE RECOGNISED SO MANY OLD FACES. WOULD BE GOOD TO HEAR FROM ANY OLD FANS OR RACING FRIENDS! I AM NOT VERY GOOD AT ALL THIS MODERN TECHNOLOGY AND PROBABLY BEST IF YOU EMAIL ME DIRECT TO RAWMEC@BTCONNECT.COM

I MAY KNOW THE ANSWERS TO SOME OF YOUR QUESTIONS!
ALL THE BEST
MIKE COOK


welcome mike.
just one point,typing in caps is considered to be*shouting*on the net :lol:
no offense.

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#752 pppdrive

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Posted 30 April 2009 - 16:30

Hi all, I'm Paul and have a question I'm hoping one of you will be able to answer for me;
I have 2 pictures of Howard German riding a Sheene Itom and on his helmet (on both pictures) is a Gilera badge.
My question is "What connection does/did Howard have with Gilera?"


#753 Russell Burrows

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 08:48

Hi all, I'm Paul and have a question I'm hoping one of you will be able to answer for me;
I have 2 pictures of Howard German riding a Sheene Itom and on his helmet (on both pictures) is a Gilera badge.
My question is "What connection does/did Howard have with Gilera?"


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Hi Paul, I posted this a few months back and posed the same question...to no avail. As you may know, Gilera produced a 190cc four stroke single in the early sixties and a few were raced, most notably by a young Bill Ivy. The link between Bill and Howard is Frank Sheene, so perhaps Howard was also involved in some way with the little Gliera? I think he raced an early 7R in the mid fifties, and didn't he also later turn out on a vintage Scott? I thought at one time that he had made a fleeting apperance on this forum, but perhaps I was wrong.

Edited by Russell Burrows, 03 May 2009 - 09:38.


#754 Herr Wankel

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 20:36

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Hi Paul, I posted this a few months back and posed the same question...to no avail. As you may know, Gilera produced a 190cc four stroke single in the early sixties and a few were raced, most notably by a young Bill Ivy. The link between Bill and Howard is Frank Sheene, so perhaps Howard was also involved in some way with the little Gliera? I think he raced an early 7R in the mid fifties, and didn't he also later turn out on a vintage Scott? I thought at one time that he had made a fleeting apperance on this forum, but perhaps I was wrong.

Hi all,
Yes Russell,he raced Clive Wayes Vintage Scott (later ridden by Chris Williams).and also IIRC Clives VW powered 2 wheeler wheeler Drag-Waye.He was also a leading light in 50 racing (Sheene Special) in its early days in the UK.
ATB HW

#755 pppdrive

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 09:10

Thanks to you both for your comments. I've just received and read Mick Walkers book on Bill Ivy (The Will to Win) and it mentions the 190 Gilera that Bill road (a 175cc Rossa Extra enlarged to 190cc) and also mentions that Bill and Howard were friends but it doesn't say anywhere that Howard ever rode Bills Gilera.

I've tried to 'google' Howard to see if that would give a hint to his Gilera connection, but nothing mentioned. I'll keep looking and if I find anything I'll post the details.

I asked the question here, as I am a Gilera nutter and also had the joy of owning a brand new Itom 3 speed handchange way back in my youth. A great little machine that never gave me any problems at all. Created a good deal of interest when I rode it to Brands and Crystal Palace to watch the racing.

Thanks again,
Paul

#756 Russell Burrows

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 09:31

Thanks to you both for your comments. I've just received and read Mick Walkers book on Bill Ivy (The Will to Win) and it mentions the 190 Gilera that Bill road (a 175cc Rossa Extra enlarged to 190cc) and also mentions that Bill and Howard were friends but it doesn't say anywhere that Howard ever rode Bills Gilera.

I've tried to 'google' Howard to see if that would give a hint to his Gilera connection, but nothing mentioned. I'll keep looking and if I find anything I'll post the details.

I asked the question here, as I am a Gilera nutter and also had the joy of owning a brand new Itom 3 speed handchange way back in my youth. A great little machine that never gave me any problems at all. Created a good deal of interest when I rode it to Brands and Crystal Palace to watch the racing.

Thanks again,
Paul


Hi Paul, Do you have any pics of the Itom? I wonder when you were going to the Palace - brilliant little circuit aye?


#757 pppdrive

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Posted 05 May 2009 - 10:47

Hi Russell,

I have only 2 and can e-mail them to you.
gilera@igottagilera.co.uk if you'd like to let me have your e-mail address.
Paul

#758 50cc racer

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Posted 12 May 2009 - 22:32

Started up my race- Kreidler for the first time today! - Finally!
Was haunted by numerous problems for weeks, biggest one turned out to be a porous casting!!!

The reward of three months of hard labour: A healthy crispy sound from this two- wheeled chain- saw.

Did someone yell "TIMBER" ?

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#759 50cc racer

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 20:02

Who, Where, and What?

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Hint: T54 may know these guys!



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#760 50cc racer

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 20:17

Can anyone tell the story of this fifty?

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#761 roadshop

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 21:11

Started up my race- Kreidler for the first time today! - Finally!
Was haunted by numerous problems for weeks, biggest one turned out to be a porous casting!!!

The reward of three months of hard labour: A healthy crispy sound from this two- wheeled chain- saw.

Did someone yell "TIMBER" ?

Posted Image



50cc racer

USA with those Bell helmets and Bates suits, early 70`es with that Minarelli engine-head.
Daytona-aura, US-nationals?

#762 philippe7

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 21:16

Can anyone tell the story of this fifty?

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50cc racer




The above looks very much like the "counter-piston" Mobylette engine by Motobécane - we have discussed it a while ago ( with T54) but I need to find the post . The idea was to use the bottow "non-powering" piston both to compress the intake gases before sending them in the proper chamber , and to act as an "inertia inducer" and add torque....don't know if my technical blurb makes any sense......

Edited by philippe7, 25 May 2009 - 21:24.


#763 roadshop

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 21:19

Can anyone tell the story of this fifty?

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50cc racer


DKW experimental-engine.

#764 philippe7

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Posted 25 May 2009 - 21:46

The above looks very much like the "counter-piston" Mobylette engine by Motobécane - we have discussed it a while ago ( with T54) but I need to find the post . The idea was to use the bottow "non-powering" piston both to compress the intake gases before sending them in the proper chamber , and to act as an "inertia inducer" and add torque....don't know if my technical blurb makes any sense......



I found it.....from 2005, buried deep in the original "huge" Motorcycle Nostalgia thread


The most original ( by this, I mean never having been seen on any other prototype ) part of this Gilera project of yours is indeed the supercharger . I think that a Peugeot (?) scooter (!) went on sale about a year ago in France, with some sort of mechanical supercharging similar to your idea.....you should have registered a patent !

This idea also brings back a very faint memory about another system , with the same goal of increasing pressure of the intake gases .....and not seen on a Grand Prix bike, mind you, but on a french blue "Mobylette" 50cc moped....Don't you remember, T54 , the "Double Piston" engine that went , I'm fairly sure, into production at Motobécane ? Basically, they had a "counter-piston" facing downwards, whose conrod was linked to the same cranck "axle" ( palier in french ) as the "powering" piston, and therefore was moving up when the other one was going down . That piston ( larger bore and smaller stroke than the "real" one ) was sucking in the gases from the carb intake into a cylinder , and then pushing them , compressed , into the cranckase, where they of course were accelerated again by the crank like in all 2-Strokes . The effect of the "double piston" was double , first acting as a compressing device, but also the increased masses in movement made it act like some sort of "balancing mass" and increasing the torque .

Of course the Mobylettes were limited by law to a maximum speed of 45 kms/h , so no high performance was sought by this technology, but only increased acceleration, and increased power for climbing hills without having to seek help from the pedals...

Anyway, another funny idea....and my apopogies for the poorness of my technical english !


To which T54 replied :

I do indeed remember the Motobecane twin-piston design. the main problem found is that the torque gained was somewhat negated by increased mechanical friction and higher fule consumption. I remember that it did not last long until theyr dropped the idea.
To be efficient, a compressing mechanism must be friction-less except for... the forced air molecules.

The proposed engine had quite a few new ideas: getting rid of the conventional exhaust port allows for less piston slap and tighter clearances. Using a carbon case allows for less temperature distortion as aluminum or magnesium does, again making tighter clearances possible.
The total weight reduction by using a carbon case, carbon wheel halves, magnesium suspension uprights and in fact very little metal structure should be in the magnitude of 25% of total weight of a conventional machine.

By blocking any air flow to penetrate the inside of the engine compartment, that could also show an enormous gain in lowering drag.

T54



and to be complete, the discussion had started when T 54 produced some sketches about a project he had imagined, which I think fits well on this thread :

I found and scanned the pencil sketch of the Gilera (not Garelli of course, me stupid!) mentioned above. It is exactly 10 years old.
It has lots of interesting ideas for a single lunch... :D Please forgive the poor quality as the original sketch was drawn over a piece of computer line paper, because that is all what the restaurant could provide!

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The basic design is one of extreme aerodynamics. Note that the pre-war record-setting style helmet has found its way in new "hunchback" leathers since.... The front upright (there is no "fork" to speak of) is a one-piece streamlined cast-magnesium part that also includes the front brake calipers. The wheels are also streamlined but allow for clean passage of side winds. There is no brake rotor, the wheel rim made of two pieces of carbon fiber bolted together in the rim and center act as a disk. There is virtually no frame, see below. The engine IS the chassis and bolts directly to the front and rear suspension. The engine drives the rear wheel through a constant-tension chain as the drive gear is running near the center of the one-sided swing arm. The front suspension is by double wide A-arms and a single shock is actuating the adjustable system through a bellcrank. The steering is hydraulic with adjustable ratio so as to allow the driver large amounts of movement without upsetting the basic stance while cornering, allowing much finer control at the limit. The engine is very different: it is a single cylinder, 2-stroke unit with a single reed valve intake feeding a gear-driven turbine that compresses air and fuel to about 2.5 crank speed (see schematic on picture # 3). There is no conventional exhaust port but no less than 4 electronically controlled segmented exhaust valves lead to a pair of expansion chamber located on top of the horizontal cylinder. This allows the piston to run freely with at no time, the single ring "hitting" a port.
Of course the compressor is borderline legal, but if you read the regulations, only EXTERNAL compressing devices are forbidden... :)

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The front suspension supporting unit is made of two pieces of stamped sheet-steel. They are bolted on top of the engine's crankcase at their bottom edge, and to a small tubular subframe working in tension and supporting the driver's seat and faux-tank anatomically designed to receive the torso, arms and chin comfortably. it means that the entire front suspension can be unbolted from the engine in less than two minutes, for an eventual replacement with different settings. The cast-magnesium single-sided swing arm is bolted directly onto the engine case made of carbon fiber. It is a one-piece molding with external covers from which one can slide the crankshaft and a cassette gearbox with integrated clutch system more akin to a torque converter. The swing arm axle rotates at drive-gear speed inside engine oil-lubricated bearings and as the front upright, includes a brake caliper acting on a "disk" protruding from the carbon fiber rear wheel rim. The single shock/spring unit is simply attached to the engine crankcase. over 80% of the torsional and longitudinal effort is carried by the carbon crankcase just like an F1 gearbox. Indeed, BAR now has a carbon gearbox doing exactly the same job, and quite successfully at that!
This arm assembly design allows the chain to be in constant tension, giving much more precise transmission especially under downshifts. The pressurized rubber fuel cell fits inside the front suspension system and feeds the single 38mm indirect fuel injection throttle body. Two surface coolers are part of the outer fairing to keep the engine bay enclosed and not subject to aero drag. The filtered air is pressurized by a small ram air intake.

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A view of the centrifugal compressor run by a set of four thin aluminum hubs with nylon spur gears. Legal? according to the regs, yes! But anyone knows that regulations may change quickly when someone has a true mechanical advantage...
So, gearheads, what do you think of this brainstorm and is Italian food responsible for demented ideas?
Regards,

T54





#765 50cc racer

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 19:50

Posted Image

Roadshop replied:
USA with those Bell helmets and Bates suits, early 70`es with that Minarelli engine-head.
Daytona-aura, US-nationals?


Welcome Roadshop (PEO?)

No, Ontario 1977, Yes, old and newer Italjets - anyone know what kind of machinery in #374?



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#766 50cc racer

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Posted 27 May 2009 - 20:17

The above looks very much like the "counter-piston" Mobylette engine by Motobécane - we have discussed it a while ago ( with T54) but I need to find the post . The idea was to use the bottow "non-powering" piston both to compress the intake gases before sending them in the proper chamber , and to act as an "inertia inducer" and add torque....don't know if my technical blurb makes any sense......


:up: Ofcourse youre right! This Motobécane two- stroke moped outfitted with a charge- piston, like DKW- racers used before them, were on sale as late as 1972?
Not a success since the French authorities classified it as a 100cc!!!

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#767 roadshop

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 22:13

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Welcome Roadshop (PEO?)

No, Ontario 1977, Yes, old and newer Italjets - anyone know what kind of machinery in #374?



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Hi, All
Yes Anders, it´s me, thanks.
Not much luck with my guessing, though.
Regards

#768 T54

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 15:31

No, Ontario 1977, Yes, old and newer Italjets

Having attended all these races in 1977 and being quite familiar with what was there, I seriously doubt that the date is correct. From the bikes and racers equipment, I would say that this picture is older, probably 1972-74. I might be wrong on this but it simply does not sound right at all.

#31 could be Cook Neilson, famous for his exploits on his Ducati and also a journalist for Cycle World.

- anyone know what kind of machinery in #374?

Looks like a water-cooled special based on a production Yamaha or Suzuki road bike?


#769 50cc racer

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 19:32

Having attended all these races in 1977 and being quite familiar with what was there, I seriously doubt that the date is correct. From the bikes and racers equipment, I would say that this picture is older, probably 1972-74. I might be wrong on this but it simply does not sound right at all.

#31 could be Cook Neilson, famous for his exploits on his Ducati and also a journalist for Cycle World.


Looks like a water-cooled special based on a production Yamaha or Suzuki road bike?


:up: T54 :up: Cook Neilson tested the Italjet racer in the February 77 issue of Cycle magazine - maybe photos were shot in 76?

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#770 50cc racer

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 19:35

Who is the Gentleman at left? (At right Derbi fan Jordi Giné Fontanellas :wave: ).

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#771 T54

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 20:57

Cook Neilson tested the Italjet racer in the February 77 issue of Cycle magazine

Then the date of the pic is right and I am wrong. Funny because I do not remember these bikes at all, and I was racing a 50cc Villa in that very race...

#772 HEMEYLA

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 21:14

Who is the Gentleman at left? (At right Derbi fan Jordi Giné Fontanellas :wave: ).

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A wild guess, Frederico van der Hoeven ?


#773 50cc racer

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 21:18

Then the date of the pic is right and I am wrong. Funny because I do not remember these bikes at all, and I was racing a 50cc Villa in that very race...


Only other name mentioned in the article is a "Bob Nolan aboard his devilishly rapid Pancho-Villa 50" :lol:


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#774 50cc racer

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 21:20

A wild guess, Frederico van der Hoeven ?


That was a wild guess Ton! - Sorry no.


#775 roadshop

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Posted 31 May 2009 - 22:03

That was a wild guess Ton! - Sorry no.

Another wild guess from my corner: Jacques Roca

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#776 50cc racer

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Posted 01 June 2009 - 20:20

Another wild guess from my corner: Jacques Roca

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Sorry Poul, not Roca!



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#777 T54

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 01:24

Only other name mentioned in the article is a "Bob Nolan aboard his devilishly rapid Pancho-Villa 50"

That was me on the bike normally raced by Bob Nolan... :)

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#778 50cc racer

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 05:29

That was me on the bike normally raced by Bob Nolan... :)

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Thats why you cant remember the other bikes - They were all behind you :clap:

Another top- Derbi driver for you to guess:

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#779 HEMEYLA

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Posted 03 June 2009 - 22:37

Another top- Derbi driver for you to guess:

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Watch this ....... Link


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#780 50cc racer

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 05:26

Watch this ....... Link


:up: Nice filmage Ton! Derbi star- driver Salvador Canellas :up:

And his predecessor in post 770?



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#781 philippe7

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 06:32

If it is Savador Canellas in the second pic, then maybe it is Benjamin Grau in the first one ?

Funny though, both seem to be quite small fellows, which is fitting for small capacity Derbi or Bultaco riders , but I remember that in the late 70's they were teamed on a big 860cc Ducati in the endurance races and that they did very well ( couple of wins or podiums , around Montjuich and Mugello ? )

#782 50cc racer

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 16:41

If it is Savador Canellas in the second pic, then maybe it is Benjamin Grau in the first one ?



Funny though, both seem to be quite small fellows, which is fitting for small capacity Derbi or Bultaco riders , but I remember that in the late 70's they were teamed on a big 860cc Ducati in the endurance races and that they did very well ( couple of wins or podiums , around Montjuich and Mugello ? )


Well Philippe7, it must have been like watching todays Pedrosa wrestling the Honda MotoGP racer.
No, not Benjamino Grau either! - HINT - there is a scorpion on that plaquette!


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#783 HEMEYLA

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 17:35

Yessss, José Maria Busquets. :wave:

France GP 1962:

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Edited by HEMEYLA, 04 June 2009 - 17:36.


#784 HEMEYLA

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Posted 04 June 2009 - 18:10

If it is Savador Canellas in the second pic, then maybe it is Benjamin Grau in the first one ?

Funny though, both seem to be quite small fellows, which is fitting for small capacity Derbi or Bultaco riders , but I remember that in the late 70's they were teamed on a big 860cc Ducati in the endurance races and that they did very well ( couple of wins or podiums , around Montjuich and Mugello ? )


Small riders on big bikes ....... Link.


#785 T54

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Posted 05 June 2009 - 03:05

Yes, it is Busquets... :)

#786 BRADER

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Posted 07 June 2009 - 22:30

I compliment you Gentlemen, what an amazingly interesting thread. Now George Ashton, there's a name from the past. Was it he who raced apart from the Honda 50, a tuned road-engined Suzuki/Yamaha/Honda? I know it a bit vague but I can recall this tiny home-built special from the 1960s. Did Fred Launchbury, famous for his very fast Bantams, ride in 50s?

Hi Paul I was kicking about 60/76 60,s during the RACING 50 CLUB was going and remember Georgie Aston riding a itom the he got his hands on a CR110 HONDA and started to win some race,s can,t remember him riding other class,s tho,don,t think Fred rode a fifty.lots of realy good 50 riders about at that time,all were amazed in 1962 at the I.O.M with the works bikes and the speed,I remember at the first practice when all the bikes had gone on there way ,the general chat was "we can all now have a cup of choclate and wait" and were more than amazed as Degner on the suzuki flashed tho with a 75mph 1st lap truly good times with many memories

#787 fil2.8

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Posted 07 June 2009 - 22:37

Hi Paul I was kicking about 60/76 60,s during the RACING 50 CLUB was going and remember Georgie Aston riding a itom the he got his hands on a CR110 HONDA and started to win some race,s can,t remember him riding other class,s tho,don,t think Fred rode a fifty.lots of realy good 50 riders about at that time,all were amazed in 1962 at the I.O.M with the works bikes and the speed,I remember at the first practice when all the bikes had gone on there way ,the general chat was "we can all now have a cup of choclate and wait" and were more than amazed as Degner on the suzuki flashed tho with a 75mph 1st lap truly good times with many memories


Hi to you Brader and a warm welcome to the forum :wave: We look forward to more postings from you :rolleyes: :up:

#788 Yendor

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 14:12

Hi Paul I was kicking about 60/76 60,s during the RACING 50 CLUB was going and remember Georgie Aston riding a itom the he got his hands on a CR110 HONDA and started to win some race,s can,t remember him riding other class,s tho,don,t think Fred rode a fifty.lots of realy good 50 riders about at that time,all were amazed in 1962 at the I.O.M with the works bikes and the speed,I remember at the first practice when all the bikes had gone on there way ,the general chat was "we can all now have a cup of choclate and wait" and were more than amazed as Degner on the suzuki flashed tho with a 75mph 1st lap truly good times with many memories


George on what I'm almost certain is a 125 Bultaco? at Castle Combe.

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#789 BRADER

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 19:27

I think that we should add the 125cc class in this thread.

I AGREE WITH MY BROTHER RIDING 50,S 60/64, I WAS JUST A WATCHER BUT THE 70,S GOT REALY INVOLVED IN 125,S CLIVE HORTON AND NEIL TUXWORTH RIDING OUR MAICO BASED 125,S

#790 Herr Wankel

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 19:46

I AGREE WITH MY BROTHER RIDING 50,S 60/64, I WAS JUST A WATCHER BUT THE 70,S GOT REALY INVOLVED IN 125,S CLIVE HORTON AND NEIL TUXWORTH RIDING OUR MAICO BASED 125,S

Didn't Dave Bedlington ride one of your creations also?
HW


#791 BRADER

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 21:32

Hi

I'm still pretty new around here, sorry if this is completely off topic, but re: the MBA / Morbidelli 125, Len Carr raced one in late 70s. I remember mainly going to watch at Mallory and Snetterton where he raced aginst John Kernan plus others, obviously.......

I have a vague-ish memory about a race at Cadwell though. Len led on lap one but later fell in the race and was passed before he fell by Johannsen. Now I always thought (and was told by an "expert" ahem!!) that this was the Benga Johannsen that partnered the late great Jock Taylor for several years in the sidecar.

Reading the forums............ if anyone does indeed know this, they will be somewhere on here I'm sure. :smoking:

I'll have hunt for a programme

HI JUST SPENDING SOME HAPPY HOURS READING THRO,YOUR MAIL CAUGHT MY EYE FOR TWO REASONS LEN CARR AND JOHN KERNAN from Redruth Cornwall,Lens dad ran widerange bearings Leicester happy memories of them both,remember talking to John at Snett ,and he joked about treating himself to the MBA after getting devoiced regards

#792 BRADER

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 21:33

HI JUST SPENDING SOME HAPPY HOURS READING THRO,YOUR MAIL CAUGHT MY EYE FOR TWO REASONS LEN CARR AND JOHN KERNAN from Redruth Cornwall,Lens dad ran widerange bearings Leicester happy memories of them both,remember talking to John at Snett ,and he joked about treating himself to the MBA after getting devoiced regards



#793 picblanc

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 21:39

I AGREE WITH MY BROTHER RIDING 50,S 60/64, I WAS JUST A WATCHER BUT THE 70,S GOT REALY INVOLVED IN 125,S CLIVE HORTON AND NEIL TUXWORTH RIDING OUR MAICO BASED 125,S


Was it this one?
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Photo Copyrighted to Graham Etheridge, racebikepics.

#794 picblanc

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 21:46

HI JUST SPENDING SOME HAPPY HOURS READING THRO,YOUR MAIL CAUGHT MY EYE FOR TWO REASONS LEN CARR AND JOHN KERNAN from Redruth Cornwall,Lens dad ran widerange bearings Leicester happy memories of them both,remember talking to John at Snett ,and he joked about treating himself to the MBA after getting devoiced regards


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Photo Copyrighted to Graham Etheridge, racebikepics.

#795 picblanc

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 21:52

He must of got divorced? here he is on the MBA
Posted Image
Photo Copyrighted to Graham Etheridge, racebikepics.

#796 picblanc

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Posted 08 June 2009 - 21:55

Sorry to have hijacked the 50cc thread guys! :well:

Edited by picblanc, 09 June 2009 - 07:53.


#797 T54

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 00:49

I think that we need to combine the 59, 80 and 125 forum into one because the same guys raced both. :)

#798 BRADER

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 14:06

Didn't Dave Bedlington ride one of your creations also?
HW

HI NO DAVE NEVER RODE FOR US STARTED WITH CHRIS KINGSLAND,NEIL TUXWORTH,CLIVE HORTON,MIXED WITH A FEW ODD RIDES FOR DAVE HUNTER,STEVE PARRY,MAINLY CLIVE & NEIL WHO WERE THE BEST AROUND IN MY OPINION AT THE TIME .CLIVE WAS INCREDIBLE SUCH A PLEASURE MANY MANY MEMOIRIES,ESPECIALY AT SNETT ,BOY WAS HE FAST

#799 exclubracer

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 16:15

Was it this one?
Posted Image
Photo Copyrighted to Graham Etheridge, racebikepics.


Has this been on before Graham? Looks like Clive on a TA125, Snetters. '74? Could be his TT winning bike.


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#800 picblanc

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Posted 09 June 2009 - 16:20

Has this been on before Graham? Looks like Clive on a TA125, Snetters. '74? Could be his TT winning bike.


Might of been! ;) I think your right Mick, its 1975 Snetters.