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1962-1983: the years of fast racing 'mopeds'!


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#1151 roadshop

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Posted 04 July 2010 - 17:54

Seen this weekend at Goodwood...............no prizes for WW:

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Paul M



Henk Van Kessel....anyway.

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#1152 quentinslater

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 03:57

50cc at Darleymoor - but who and when ?
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50cc racer


Third helmet from left is Doug Wightman on a Van Veen Kreidler .. 4th helmet from left is Quentin Slater on an ex works Suzuki frame(d Minarelli) (engine out of an AJW) that Alan Wightman had lent him for the season .. the only reliable bike he ever rode.

Greg Lawton did not materialize until 1981 out of a lengthy retirement to ride a Jamathi framed Minarelli .. we collided at devil's elbow at Llandow in a tight race when the front tire of my Kriedler started to break away and I panicked. Sorry Greg .. my knee still hurts.

Other characters from that time include the Skelton brothers, Martin Taylor, Roger Simpkin, Terry Keane's friend (don't remember his name but I bought an ex Euro GP Kreidler with a sheared layshaft from him) Reg Dalton (and Tony ??), Roger Lee, Dave Brierly, Michael Marmon and of course Terry Keane, Mike Cooke (and his mechanic Ron Gardener of Gardener carburator fame) and Ron Ponti..

As for me .. after 50's had been and gone, I moved on to the Steve Wicks Yamaha frame #001 that had previously broken Doug Wightman's collarbone (twice I think) and I sorted it by honing a taper into the bore .. it badly needed the rear shocks sorting out but was a nice bike. Without an ounce of shame, I sold the bike to Jim Fruin. I subsequently saw the bike offered at auction with some highly speculative provenance (no reflection on Jim). I have a few pictures floating around, including pit shots of the Wicks #001, if anyone is interested.

My racing career ended in Michigan on turn #4 of Grattan raceway when my wicked Honda 125 shot me highside. I was to have gone to the Manx the following year, an unrealized ambition of mine .. now I have a humeral rod that excites immigration officials and a paunch.

#1153 quentinslater

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 04:00

Third helmet from left is Doug Wightman on a Van Veen Kreidler .. 4th helmet from left is Quentin Slater on an ex works Suzuki frame(d Minarelli) (engine out of an AJW) that Alan Wightman had lent him for the season .. the only reliable bike he ever rode.

Greg Lawton did not materialize until 1981 out of a lengthy retirement to ride a Jamathi framed Minarelli .. we collided at devil's elbow at Llandow in a tight race when the front tire of my Kriedler started to break away and I panicked. Sorry Greg .. my knee still hurts.

Other characters from that time include the Skelton brothers, Martin Taylor, Roger Simpkin, Terry Keane's friend (don't remember his name but I bought an ex Euro GP Kreidler with a sheared layshaft from him) Reg Dalton (and Tony ??), Roger Lee, Dave Brierly, Michael Marmon and of course Terry Keane, Mike Cooke (and his mechanic Ron Gardener of Gardener carburator fame) and Ron Ponti..

As for me .. after 50's had been and gone, I moved on to the Steve Wicks Yamaha frame #001 that had previously broken Doug Wightman's collarbone (twice I think) and I sorted it by honing a taper into the bore .. it badly needed the rear shocks sorting out but was a nice bike. Without an ounce of shame, I sold the bike to Jim Fruin. I subsequently saw the bike offered at auction with some highly speculative provenance (no reflection on Jim). I have a few pictures floating around, including pit shots of the Wicks #001, if anyone is interested.

My racing career ended in Michigan on turn #4 of Grattan raceway when my wicked Honda 125 shot me highside. I was to have gone to the Manx the following year, an unrealized ambition of mine .. now I have a humeral rod that excites immigration officials and a paunch.


Does anyone remember the LOTEC ?

#1154 Herr Wankel

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Posted 05 July 2010 - 13:09

Does anyone remember the LOTEC ?

Yes,Steve Thompson,
Of the riders above,I recognise (that is,raced with) Martin Taylor,Greg Lawton,Dave Brierley,and Terry Keane but it was 10 years before the photo!!! and of course 'Thomo' on his 1st air cooled Kreidler.
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#1155 Xover

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Posted 06 July 2010 - 06:38

Nice pic of the start at Darley...brings back a few memories....and invokes a comparison. I have been living in Indonesia for 7 years now. I still use a bike occasionally, it's a 135cc water cooled Yamaha 4 stroke, nippy enough for an old git and cute with it. Now, for anyone who has raced at Darley you will know what it's like to rush 6 abreast, elbows akimbo, into the first chicane on the opening lap. Well, riding in an Indonesian city is like that...ALL the time!! Incidentally, does anyone remember the birth of the Darley Moor MCRC? It was formed by amalgamating the West Midlands Racing Fifty Club with the Cheshire MCRC. I was a member of both and as such became a founder member of the Darley Club. It was a pretty barren airfield then with a small kart track down by the first right hander. We would go down there most winter weekends to join the work parties, sweeping loose dirt and generally trying to shape it into a race circuit. Praise has to go to people like Jim Townley and his wife plus Bert and Nellie Foster, my father and many others who put endless hours of their time into making it what it is.

#1156 husky410

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Posted 09 July 2010 - 22:25

I've searched this thread and had a look through it so apologies if this has already been mentioned, but is there any information about the Heldun Hawk? My grandad, PJ Walsh, rode one at the 67 TT and ended with a DNF. I am not sure if it was a production model or a "works" bike as they were made in Birmingham so Im wondering if a local lad got to ride the "works" bike that year.

#1157 HEMEYLA

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 00:37

There was an Heldun Hawk on auction in 2006, this is the accompanying text:


The Birmingham-made Heldun ‘Hawk’ is one of the world’s most ephemeral and rare motorcycles.

Produced for one year only, 1967-68, the little Heldun made it to the T.T. and then faded from view, all in that one year.

The works Heldun competed in the short-lived 50cc T.T. in 1967 in the hands of the lightweight rider P J Walsh, more used to MV and Aermacchi,

who did not finish, and the same fate befell Heldun rider Doug Cash in 1968.

This machine, from its frame number one of the TT entries, (though further research may clarify this) went on to further use in short-circuit racing in the hands of A F Clapham and was then retired.

After many years, what may be the marque’s sole survivor was carefully rebuilt, though the fairing was accidentally lost, it seems during a house move.

In excellent condition, this ultra-rare TT racer, complete with a 1969 Darley Moor programme and some contemporary photographs, will appeal to the collector of British racing machines.


A color picture from the bike is on this famous website ........... click.

Edited by HEMEYLA, 10 July 2010 - 11:40.


#1158 husky410

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 02:35

Thanks HEMAYLA.
Those pictures sure look like him although they aren't exactly the clearest, but that nose. I'd say that was him. No googles either. Perhaps publicity shots?
Anyone know if Dave Cash was a Brummie as well?

#1159 HEMEYLA

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 11:43

Found the auction back again (bike not sold) ................... click.

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#1160 Herr Wankel

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 11:54

There was an Heldun Hawk on auction in 2006, this is the accompanying text:


The Birmingham-made Heldun ‘Hawk’ is one of the world’s most ephemeral and rare motorcycles.

Produced for one year only, 1967-68, the little Heldun made it to the T.T. and then faded from view, all in that one year.

The works Heldun competed in the short-lived 50cc T.T. in 1967 in the hands of the lightweight rider P J Walsh, more used to MV and Aermacchi,

who did not finish, and the same fate befell Heldun rider Doug Cash in 1968.

This machine, from its frame number one of the TT entries, (though further research may clarify this) went on to further use in short-circuit racing in the hands of A F Clapham and was then retired.

After many years, what may be the marque’s sole survivor was carefully rebuilt, though the fairing was accidentally lost, it seems during a house move.

In excellent condition, this ultra-rare TT racer, complete with a 1969 Darley Moor programme and some contemporary photographs, will appeal to the collector of British racing machines.


A color picture from the bike is on this famous website ........... click.

Prior and concurrent with my 1st assault on 50cc racing at Darley,there were 2 Claphams on Heldun Hawks. A F as mentioned and S (Sam) Clapham,with IIRC leathers to match the purple livery of the machines.Brummies both and brothers I reckon.
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#1161 husky410

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 17:50

I wonder if the machine for sale was the one Pat rode. Could very well be. Obviously though, there was more than one made as Herr Wankel pointed out in the above post, and it does seem as though it was a Midlands effort all round.
Darley Moor! Ah, I used to go stand at the hairpin when I went there with PJ, then wander back to the paddock down by the straight. I was probably hoping for fallers but what I realize now was that I was actually learning. You could see the pack coming and then hear the blip, blip, blip as they changed down, and when I first got onto a bike at 14, ( A mates Honda SS50) I had the gearchanges sorted. Everyone I've taught have found that that's their biggest obstacle, changing gear. Should have sent them to Darley Moor!

#1162 Herr Wankel

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 21:34

I wonder if the machine for sale was the one Pat rode. Could very well be. Obviously though, there was more than one made as Herr Wankel pointed out in the above post, and it does seem as though it was a Midlands effort all round.
Darley Moor! Ah, I used to go stand at the hairpin when I went there with PJ, then wander back to the paddock down by the straight. I was probably hoping for fallers but what I realize now was that I was actually learning. You could see the pack coming and then hear the blip, blip, blip as they changed down, and when I first got onto a bike at 14, ( A mates Honda SS50) I had the gearchanges sorted. Everyone I've taught have found that that's their biggest obstacle, changing gear. Should have sent them to Darley Moor!

My 1st race was on an SS50 Honda at Darley,1970 British 50cc Championship meeting,was last qualifier for the final from my heat.2 qualifying heats for 50s,they were the days.I reckon that fellow forum members Barry D and Arthur L would have been there too that day,but in another time warp to me :rotfl:
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#1163 50cc racer

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 05:33

Who ?

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50cc racer

#1164 Arthur

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 15:17

My 1st race was on an SS50 Honda at Darley,1970 British 50cc Championship meeting,was last qualifier for the final from my heat.2 qualifying heats for 50s,they were the days.I reckon that fellow forum members Barry D and Arthur L would have been there too that day,but in another time warp to me :rotfl:
HW

Yes Herr I rode a few times at Darley Moor in the late 60s early 70s and have a few pewter mug trophies in the cabinet to remind me.One race which stands out in my mind there was a hell of a scrap I had with George Ashton who was on the Des Bone Special.On the straight it was much quicker than my Honda Cr110 but my Honda handled better and I was taking yards out of George on the bends to the point he allmost lost it at the hairpin which was the only time I led and we crossed the line virtually together with me second.
Regarding the Heldun Hawk I have a press cutting from the motor cycle news of the Cadwell park round of the 1970 British Championship and it includes a photo of myself and Frank Whiteway dicing and also in the picture is A.Clapham on a Heldun.We are lapping him in a 15 lap race so that speaks volumes for the Heldun My recollection was that the few produced were purple in colour and pretty slow.
To quote the Motorcycle News report by Norrie WHYTTE ? the report starts with the words quote WHATEVER THE LITTLE 50s LACKED IN SHEER SPEED THEY MORE THAN COMPENSATED FOR WITH THRILLING NECK-AND-NECK DICING IN THE 7TH ROUND OF THE BRITISH CHAMPIONSHIP AT CADWELL PARK ON SUNDAY
THIS HIGHLIGHT OF THE MEETING BECAME A HECTIC DUEL BETWEEN TWO TOP CHAMPIONSHIP CONTENDERS FRANK WHITEWAY AND ARTHUR LAWN
WHITEWAY LED FROM THE SART WITH LAWN BREATHING DOWN HIS NECK ALL THE WAY UNTILL HE TOOK THE LEAD ON THE 9TH LAP. OVERSHOOTING THE HAIRPIN ON THE LAST LAP HE LOST IT AGAIN BUT OVERTOK WHITEWAY HALFWAY ROUND THE LAST LAP TO WIN BY 20 YARDS.
sOUNDS GOOD BUT WHAT THE REPORT DID'NT KNOW WAS THAT SOMEONE DROPPED A POOL OF OIL ON ONE OF THE BENDS AND FRANK GOT INTO A BAD SLIDE ON IT AND NEARLY LOST THE PLOT WHICH ALLOWED ME THE LEAD ON THE LAST LAP AS EVEN THOUGH I WENT THROUGH IT TOO I HAD NO PROBLEM.
MEMORIES MEMORIES WOULD POST PRESS CUTTING BUT DO'NT KNOW HOW TOO



#1165 50cc racer

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 19:50

Yes Herr I rode a few times at Darley Moor in the late 60s early 70s and have a few pewter mug trophies in the cabinet to remind me.One race which stands out in my mind there was a hell of a scrap I had with George Ashton who was on the Des Bone Special.On the straight it was much quicker than my Honda Cr110 but my Honda handled better and I was taking yards out of George on the bends to the point he allmost lost it at the hairpin which was the only time I led and we crossed the line virtually together with me second.
Regarding the Heldun Hawk I have a press cutting from the motor cycle news of the Cadwell park round of the 1970 British Championship and it includes a photo of myself and Frank Whiteway dicing and also in the picture is A.Clapham on a Heldun.We are lapping him in a 15 lap race so that speaks volumes for the Heldun My recollection was that the few produced were purple in colour and pretty slow.
To quote the Motorcycle News report by Norrie WHYTTE ? the report starts with the words quote WHATEVER THE LITTLE 50s LACKED IN SHEER SPEED THEY MORE THAN COMPENSATED FOR WITH THRILLING NECK-AND-NECK DICING IN THE 7TH ROUND OF THE BRITISH CHAMPIONSHIP AT CADWELL PARK ON SUNDAY
THIS HIGHLIGHT OF THE MEETING BECAME A HECTIC DUEL BETWEEN TWO TOP CHAMPIONSHIP CONTENDERS FRANK WHITEWAY AND ARTHUR LAWN
WHITEWAY LED FROM THE SART WITH LAWN BREATHING DOWN HIS NECK ALL THE WAY UNTILL HE TOOK THE LEAD ON THE 9TH LAP. OVERSHOOTING THE HAIRPIN ON THE LAST LAP HE LOST IT AGAIN BUT OVERTOK WHITEWAY HALFWAY ROUND THE LAST LAP TO WIN BY 20 YARDS.
sOUNDS GOOD BUT WHAT THE REPORT DID'NT KNOW WAS THAT SOMEONE DROPPED A POOL OF OIL ON ONE OF THE BENDS AND FRANK GOT INTO A BAD SLIDE ON IT AND NEARLY LOST THE PLOT WHICH ALLOWED ME THE LEAD ON THE LAST LAP AS EVEN THOUGH I WENT THROUGH IT TOO I HAD NO PROBLEM.
MEMORIES MEMORIES WOULD POST PRESS CUTTING BUT DO'NT KNOW HOW TOO


Arthur, You and Your CR110 must have been in top shape to outperform the lightweight Kreidler powered WB- special - driven by Whiteway - Well done :up:
Did the WB look like the one pictured or was it equipped with a disc brake?

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50cc racer



#1166 Herr Wankel

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 21:01

Arthur, You and Your CR110 must have been in top shape to outperform the lightweight Kreidler powered WB- special - driven by Whiteway - Well done :up:
Did the WB look like the one pictured or was it equipped with a disc brake?

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50cc racer

Anders,Frank Whiteway would have been on the Crooks Suzuki TR50.Unusually fast for a TR!!I remember sitting next to George Ashton in the holding/pre grid area at Darley,him on the Bone Special,and seem to recall the motor was an Itom,but modified almost beyond recognition.
Arthur,I used to see you on that Cr,together with Chris Walpole,Chris Geary,Fran Redfearn,Hughie McIvor,Stan Lawley etc.All those CRs in one race,the sound,the sight,I was mesmerised.I just had to have one.They were something special.Thanks for the memories.
ATB HW

#1167 roadshop

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 22:45

Who ?

Posted Image



50cc racer


Could it be Mr. Cobas to the left?
Poul Erik

#1168 50cc racer

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 18:52

Anders,Frank Whiteway would have been on the Crooks Suzuki TR50.Unusually fast for a TR!!I remember sitting next to George Ashton in the holding/pre grid area at Darley,him on the Bone Special,and seem to recall the motor was an Itom,but modified almost beyond recognition.
Arthur,I used to see you on that Cr,together with Chris Walpole,Chris Geary,Fran Redfearn,Hughie McIvor,Stan Lawley etc.All those CRs in one race,the sound,the sight,I was mesmerised.I just had to have one.They were something special.Thanks for the memories.
ATB HW


Sorry about that! I got the names all mixed up. :drunk:
So, George Ashton raced this one:

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The Des Bone built, Spondon- framed Wooley Bone Itom, watercooled, six- speed transmission and disc-valved?

Question:

Who crammed the six- speeder into that engine - was it the Chisholm brothers, or Pierre Kemperman of NL?




50cc racer

#1169 50cc racer

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 18:55

Could it be Mr. Cobas to the left?
Poul Erik


Yes Poul Erik :up: Antonio Cobas it is of JJ Cobas fame, sitting next to another Spanish Giant.




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#1170 HEMEYLA

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Posted 12 July 2010 - 19:42

Yes Poul Erik :up: Antonio Cobas it is of JJ Cobas fame, sitting next to another Spanish Giant.




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Francisco Tombas of Derbi fame.

#1171 husky410

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Posted 13 July 2010 - 23:47

@HerrWankel
I was a little surprised when you said you ran an SS50, but on reflection they were actually faster than the AP50 Suzuki, and the FS1E Yamaha. I remember my mates SS 50. Everyone sort of cajoled him for buying a four stroke but he was always the fastest of the pack of "fizzys" and Suzis. Once it got going, it was a fast moped.

#1172 50cc racer

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Posted 14 July 2010 - 05:26

Anders,Frank Whiteway would have been on the Crooks Suzuki TR50.Unusually fast for a TR!!I remember sitting next to George Ashton in the holding/pre grid area at Darley,him on the Bone Special,and seem to recall the motor was an Itom,but modified almost beyond recognition.
Arthur,I used to see you on that Cr,together with Chris Walpole,Chris Geary,Fran Redfearn,Hughie McIvor,Stan Lawley etc.All those CRs in one race,the sound,the sight,I was mesmerised.I just had to have one.They were something special.Thanks for the memories.
ATB HW


About that Crooks Suzuki - does anybody have a picture of that creation without fairing?

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Can You supply details of this bike?


@Hemeyla - You´re right again Ton - Paco Tombas left a big impression late eighties with the 50cc variomatic racebikes.



50cc racer

#1173 Herr Wankel

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Posted 15 July 2010 - 09:04

@HerrWankel
I was a little surprised when you said you ran an SS50, but on reflection they were actually faster than the AP50 Suzuki, and the FS1E Yamaha. I remember my mates SS 50. Everyone sort of cajoled him for buying a four stroke but he was always the fastest of the pack of "fizzys" and Suzis. Once it got going, it was a fast moped.

It was the pre 'ped model,before (just) the fizzy era.Almost a proper motorbike :rotfl:
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#1174 PaulMB

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Posted 17 July 2010 - 16:47

Is this a thing of beauty or a thing or beauty?

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Posted Image

#1175 Herr Wankel

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Posted 18 July 2010 - 11:41

Is this a thing of beauty or a thing or beauty?

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Posted Image

Exquisite :up: :up:
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#1176 Coupe Kawasaki

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 18:18

What a cracking bike...superb engineering Paul, like the oil feeds :)


I don't know who this is but I bet you guys do :wave:

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#1177 Herr Wankel

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 19:01

What a cracking bike...superb engineering Paul, like the oil feeds :)


I don't know who this is but I bet you guys do :wave:

Posted Image

Santi
HW

#1178 Coupe Kawasaki

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 19:29

Ah Ok thanks Andy...I think this is Yugoslavia in 1969 (I forget easily as D'Artagnan has pointed out :rotfl: :rotfl:)

#1179 Coupe Kawasaki

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 19:30

Same place then.. :)



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Daisy

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#1180 HEMEYLA

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 19:43

I don't know who this is but I bet you guys do :wave:


Angel Nieto @ Derbi, Opatija GP 1969.

#1181 roadshop

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 19:43

Same place then.. :)



Posted Image



Daisy



Poul Lodewijkx on Jamathi.
Could the #30 rider also be Nieto, Andy?

#1182 HEMEYLA

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 19:44

Same place then.. :)

Daisy


Yes same place, winner Paul Lodewijkx @ Jamathi & Aalt Toersen @ Kreidler, dnf.

Edited by HEMEYLA, 22 July 2010 - 19:46.


#1183 Herr Wankel

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 19:45

Ah Ok thanks Andy...I think this is Yugoslavia in 1969 (I forget easily as D'Artagnan has pointed out :rotfl: :rotfl:)

If its 69 Yugo,Santi didn't pop up in the results,so unless he DNFd its Barry Smith or Nieto.He didn't ride in all the rounds.
HW

Edited by Herr Wankel, 22 July 2010 - 19:46.


#1184 HEMEYLA

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 19:59

Santi didn't start in the 50 ccm class, injured from his crash in the Ulster, he did start in the 250 but crashed.

Posted Image

Edited by HEMEYLA, 22 July 2010 - 20:14.


#1185 Coupe Kawasaki

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Posted 22 July 2010 - 23:52

This is Yugo too I think if it helps :wave:



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#1186 HEMEYLA

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 04:34

Barry Smith, dnf.

#1187 Coupe Kawasaki

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 04:48

Ah Ok Thanks, I'll start to recognize some of them soon :D ..they are wonderful little bikes...I can see genius in the engineering...might have to find a 50 :clap: Is 154 lbs a bit heavy? :rolleyes:



David

#1188 HEMEYLA

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 04:57

70 kg is ok. :wave:

#1189 Coupe Kawasaki

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 05:00

Thanks I always wondered about that..I could get a Yamaha fizzer motor and use that with tons of tuning etc then? :cool:


David

#1190 Rennmax

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 06:44

Thanks I always wondered about that..I could get a Yamaha fizzer motor and use that with tons of tuning etc then? :cool:


David


No tons of tuning needed David, all you need is a big file :wave:

Edited by Rennmax, 23 July 2010 - 06:45.


#1191 HEMEYLA

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 07:14

:smoking:

Posted Image

Edited by HEMEYLA, 08 August 2010 - 00:13.


#1192 Rennmax

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 11:59

a whole lotta holes :)

#1193 HEMEYLA

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 12:31

a whole lotta holes :)


And even more holes. :eek:

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#1194 Rennmax

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 12:34


How long did the piston rings stand the stress, Ton ?

#1195 HEMEYLA

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 12:50

Hardchromed steel piston rings 0.8 mm thick, they last forever (almost).

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#1196 Rennmax

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Posted 23 July 2010 - 12:53

Thanks Ton :up: :wave:

#1197 roger382

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 10:57

Hi, I`d love to hear from anyone who raced a Motom in the `60`s. Apart from the works ones that came over in the early `60`s and were ridden by Dave Simmonds, Peter Inchley and Roy Rigini (?), I`ve never seen or heard of another Motom being raced in the UK since the one that I raced in `65. It could stay with the Itoms, just, and was as noisy as a Manx Norton ! :cool: I`ve still got the piston with a valve head imbedded in it in my cabinet ): I`ve also seen photos of a pair of works prototype that can only be described as a miniature Drixton chassis fitted with a shrunken Aermacchi engine !! a beautiful little thing, though not as gorgious as that Demm that PaulMB posted, and an ohc engine in a standard frame. Keep them coming, it`s doing my memories no end of good :clap: :clap: :clap:

#1198 Coupe Kawasaki

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Posted 24 July 2010 - 16:37

And even more holes. :eek:

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Thanks for that Ton, I'll be getting the Dremel out at some stage :eek: :eek: :eek:

#1199 50cc racer

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Posted 07 August 2010 - 22:07

Or make a casting :up:

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#1200 mba21

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Posted 08 August 2010 - 21:15

Thanks for that Ton, I'll be getting the Dremel out at some stage :eek: :eek: :eek:

you will need more than a dremel Daisy.you need to be good at foundry work and more especially pattern making .....................