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1962-1983: the years of fast racing 'mopeds'!


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#1251 Arthur

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Posted 05 December 2010 - 09:03

How many gears on this one Arthur?

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Thanks Bill Yes my little 8 speed Honda CR110 Fantastic gear arrangement spoilt by the FIm rules in 1969 when we had to drop 2 out to comply with the 6 gear rule.

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#1252 50cc racer

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Posted 22 December 2010 - 20:10

What and when?

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#1253 HEMEYLA

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Posted 25 December 2010 - 19:21

Sepp Schlögl with Schlömaho.

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#1254 HEMEYLA

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Posted 27 December 2010 - 19:30

What and when?

50cc racer


Tohatsu (ex twin) frame and gearbox, DRM cylinder, Honda clutch, Kreidler front suspension.

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#1255 50cc racer

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Posted 29 December 2010 - 07:52

Tohatsu (ex twin) frame and gearbox, DRM cylinder, Honda clutch, Kreidler front suspension.

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:up: Ton!
See more pictures of this Tohatsu, converted by the Dutch importer Meierdres, to fit under the new rules for 69:

http://50ccclassicracing.vpweb.nl

Now Ton, tell us about Sepp Schlögl bike :)



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#1256 TSD

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Posted 08 January 2011 - 22:14

[quote name='Russell Burrows' date='Jun 13 2010, 18:33' post='4414312']

Hi all just found this site, Re the british Pathe film, When the camera pans back from Beryl
Rider No 198 is Paul Latham, Onto the race watch the rider on the third row of the grid on the
far side No 205 with the white fairing, who races into the lead, this is myself ,overtaken by
Charlie Mates going into Druids only for him to fall off on the exit, lead the race going onto
the then new circuit only to stop just after when the big end fails.

Will read all the other posts etc and add commets and photos later.

#1257 TSD

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 17:08

QUOTE; UNDREDSEESEE, 7th SEP 2010. POST #1204.
ITOM RIDERS DIDN`T USE THE FRONT BRAKE ETC.

I owned one of the first batch of six competition Itom`s sold by A H Tooleys this was in 1957, with it
came an A4 printed sheet with Racer Riding Instructions . It stated that you should line yourself up
with the corner and on on account move your riding position (weight) or use your front brake otherwise
you will fall off!!!!!. Who this was printed by I cannot recall.
One of the reasons could have been that they were fitted with 20" wheels by 1 3/4" section, and tyres
made by "Ceat" The tyre footprint on the road must have been the size of a postage stamp.
On the 1958 and later models they reduced the size to 18" by 2" which was a great improvement
to road holding
It was not until 1962 prior to the TT that "Avon" produced a racing tyre for the 50cc machines.

As for the footret positions you try folding yourself under a fairing with normal footrest positions
you will find that your knees get in the way of your elbows

#1258 50cc racer

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 21:39

QUOTE; UNDREDSEESEE, 7th SEP 2010. POST #1204.
ITOM RIDERS DIDN`T USE THE FRONT BRAKE ETC.

I owned one of the first batch of six competition Itom`s sold by A H Tooleys this was in 1957, with it
came an A4 printed sheet with Racer Riding Instructions . It stated that you should line yourself up
with the corner and on on account move your riding position (weight) or use your front brake otherwise
you will fall off!!!!!. Who this was printed by I cannot recall.
One of the reasons could have been that they were fitted with 20" wheels by 1 3/4" section, and tyres
made by "Ceat" The tyre footprint on the road must have been the size of a postage stamp.
On the 1958 and later models they reduced the size to 18" by 2" which was a great improvement
to road holding
It was not until 1962 prior to the TT that "Avon" produced a racing tyre for the 50cc machines.

As for the footret positions you try folding yourself under a fairing with normal footrest positions
you will find that your knees get in the way of your elbows



Hi TSD and welcome to this thread :wave:
How nice of you to tell us "youngsters" how it was really like in the beginning!
Did you race other marques in this class?
Looking forward to hear your stories.



50cc racer




Edited by 50cc racer, 09 January 2011 - 21:42.


#1259 Undredseesee

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Posted 09 January 2011 - 21:42

QUOTE; UNDREDSEESEE, 7th SEP 2010. POST #1204.
ITOM RIDERS DIDN`T USE THE FRONT BRAKE ETC.

I owned one of the first batch of six competition Itom`s sold by A H Tooleys this was in 1957, with it
came an A4 printed sheet with Racer Riding Instructions . It stated that you should line yourself up
with the corner and on on account move your riding position (weight) or use your front brake otherwise
you will fall off!!!!!. Who this was printed by I cannot recall.
One of the reasons could have been that they were fitted with 20" wheels by 1 3/4" section, and tyres
made by "Ceat" The tyre footprint on the road must have been the size of a postage stamp.
On the 1958 and later models they reduced the size to 18" by 2" which was a great improvement
to road holding
It was not until 1962 prior to the TT that "Avon" produced a racing tyre for the 50cc machines.

As for the footret positions you try folding yourself under a fairing with normal footrest positions
you will find that your knees get in the way of your elbows


Thank you for that interesting info. I read somewhere that Itom riders adjusted up their front brake cables for scrutineering and then slackened them right off for the race. Now I can understand why! Also I can see the need for swingarm mounted footrests when knees and elbows are in one another's way. I assume that was because of a very short wheelbase?

This early stuff is really interesting. Please keep it coming.

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#1260 50cc racer

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 06:26

Hi all
And especially the many CR110 and RC- Honda fans present.
I have just finished reading "Hondas four-stroke race history 1954- 1981"
Joep Kortekaas has made a masterpiece in the most complete Honda race- history so far,
describing every model in detail, and the results they achieved on track.

Lots of 50cc stuff in there!!!



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#1261 50cc racer

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 21:12

Nice Derbi for sale:

http://anuncios.ebay...eticion/7278666



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#1262 GD66

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 21:25

There's an insight into the book on his website, http://www.vf750fd.c...ce_history.html

A busy man, with plenty of inside information. One of the first sites I used to look up when invading the local library... :)

Edited by GD66, 18 January 2011 - 21:25.


#1263 NRdV

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 12:06

Maybe Rodil del Valle ( later chairman of the FIM IIRC ) second from right ?


Hello everyone. I regret to tell you that the gentleman second from right set isn't Mr. Nicolas Rodil del Valle.
A greeting.


#1264 Herr Wankel

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 19:08

Hello everyone. I regret to tell you that the gentleman second from right set isn't Mr. Nicolas Rodil del Valle.
A greeting.

Well I guess thats cleared that one up

HW

#1265 50cc racer

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 20:53

Need help finding details on this:

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As far as we know this Spondon framed racer used to be Kreidler- powered, but picture shows a Malcolm Hogg ? racing with Faccioli- Minarelli P6 ?



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#1266 philippe7

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Posted 24 February 2011 - 23:18

Hello everyone. I regret to tell you that the gentleman second from right set isn't Mr. Nicolas Rodil del Valle.
A greeting.


Is this you in person writing this , Senor Rodil del Valle ? If so, we are very honoured !

#1267 NRdV

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 01:16

Is this you in person writing this , Senor Rodil del Valle ? If so, we are very honoured !



Mr. Philippe7, I have to tell you that Mr. Nicolás Rodil del Valle died in 2004 in Valencia (Spain), today he would be 95 years old. I'm his nephew and I'm glad you were honoured to talk to him. I have dozens of albums with photos of the time my uncle was FIM president (1965-1983), and also the time when he was Spanish Motocycle Federation president, between 1951 and 1959. As soon as I know how to upload photos to this forum I will put several that may be of interest to you. Greetings.

Herr Wankel, sorry if my explanation had already been settled beforehand. It is possible that, since I don't master the forum yet so I found it few dates ago, and my English is not as good as it should, I had overlooked that. In any case I apologize. A greeting.

Edited by NRdV, 25 February 2011 - 01:18.


#1268 philippe7

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 05:50

Senor Rodil del Valle, sorry to hear about your uncle's death, I didn't know. Also, if I may speak for Herr Wankel I can assure you that there was nothing critical in his post, he was saying that the matter was now resolved, thanks to your post .

We will be very interested to see the pictures and documents you can post on this forum . Ther is a tutorial somewhere on the forum explianing how to post photos .

#1269 Herr Wankel

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Posted 25 February 2011 - 11:17

Senor Rodil del Valle, sorry to hear about your uncle's death, I didn't know. Also, if I may speak for Herr Wankel I can assure you that there was nothing critical in his post, he was saying that the matter was now resolved, thanks to your post .

We will be very interested to see the pictures and documents you can post on this forum . Ther is a tutorial somewhere on the forum explianing how to post photos .


Thank you Philippe,and well said.I only meant that the matter was resolved.A warm welcome to Senor Rdil de Valle from me and my fellow forum members

Hw

#1270 guazzoni

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Posted 28 February 2011 - 11:21

Came across these pictures on the web, not much info came with them though, but they seem worth sharing here.
They were more than likely taken in Portugal and there was a mention of the "Autódromo do Estoril"
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Some bikes look more professionally built than others, and if this pic was taken at the start i'm guessing it was a low key event in which it was rather easy to enter?
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Public and racers seem to mix and although i understand that was how it worked in those days, this looks really casual, no?
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But the picture that intrigues me the most is this one.
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I do really like the lines of the bike, seems to be kreidler powered with the "typical" cilinder as found on the later models. What facinates me though, is the frame. The tubing looks so frail that i have trouble believing this is simply a miscalculated amateur effort. Does this ring a bell with anybody, or are my eyes failing me and is the tubing no slimmer than usual?
Judging by the double disk brakes this must be late '70s or early '80's?


#1271 joeninety

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Posted 28 February 2011 - 13:08

Posted Image
By joeninety at 2011-02-28
Thought you might like this cute little baby from the Stoneleigh retro show
I do
Chris

#1272 HEMEYLA

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 20:06

But the picture that intrigues me the most is this one.
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I do really like the lines of the bike, seems to be kreidler powered with the "typical" cilinder as found on the later models. What facinates me though, is the frame. The tubing looks so frail that i have trouble believing this is simply a miscalculated amateur effort. Does this ring a bell with anybody, or are my eyes failing me and is the tubing no slimmer than usual?
Judging by the double disk brakes this must be late '70s or early '80's?


Looks like a Scrab frame.

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#1273 HEMEYLA

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 21:06

World champion 50cc 1974 Henk van Kessel on Paul Rutten's Ringhini at Denia.

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Edited by HEMEYLA, 01 March 2011 - 21:07.


#1274 Arthur

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Posted 01 March 2011 - 23:15

Just heard the sad news that Dereck Savoury has passed away Dereck was in his 70's and raced 125cc and 50cc machines with success in the 60s including a Honda Cr110 which he purchased from George Ashton. A great friend RIP Dereck

#1275 Herr Wankel

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Posted 02 March 2011 - 14:19

Just heard the sad news that Dereck Savoury has passed away Dereck was in his 70's and raced 125cc and 50cc machines with success in the 60s including a Honda Cr110 which he purchased from George Ashton. A great friend RIP Dereck

Sad news Arthur. RIP Derek :cry:

HW

#1276 Undredseesee

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 09:29

Itoms seemed to be the most popular mount in the sixties, though clearly inferior to the Kreidlers. What was the mean maxium speed of those machines (not specials, ie liquid cooled, disc valved etc). Would an honest 65-70 mph (105-112 kph) be near the mark for a decent one? I imagine it must have been a real struggle to keep in on the pipe with the three speed models.

#1277 50cc racer

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Posted 09 March 2011 - 18:24

Itoms seemed to be the most popular mount in the sixties, though clearly inferior to the Kreidlers. What was the mean maxium speed of those machines (not specials, ie liquid cooled, disc valved etc). Would an honest 65-70 mph (105-112 kph) be near the mark for a decent one? I imagine it must have been a real struggle to keep in on the pipe with the three speed models.


Wonderful ekspression - keeping it on the pipe :)
Here is one getting on the pipe:

http://www.youtube.c...337E0385B9B19AE



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#1278 elmwood

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Posted 10 March 2011 - 17:07

Posted Image
By joeninety at 2011-02-28
Thought you might like this cute little baby from the Stoneleigh retro show
I do
Chris


Stunning bike..... I'd like one of them in my shed :love:

Ringhini designed the first Morbidelli 50 and 125, i read somewhere....

Mike....

#1279 50cc racer

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 21:04

Who where and what? :wave:

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#1280 Herr Wankel

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Posted 26 March 2011 - 21:29

Somewhere in the States? (and not recently,,1980?)

HW

#1281 roadshop

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 18:44

Somewhere in the States? (and not recently,,1980?)

HW


Forum member T54 in the middle ?

#1282 50cc racer

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 19:37

Forum member T54 in the middle ?


Well done HW and Poul Erik - California 1976 Ontario: #374 Jeff (?) Suzuki TS50, #225 Philippe deLespinay Ringhini, #787 Bob Nolan Villa.
All bikes owned by team leader Franco Garavoglia, who supplied these special pictures from the US 50cc racing scene.



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Edited by 50cc racer, 10 April 2011 - 17:08.


#1283 50cc racer

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Posted 10 April 2011 - 17:10

Beautiful machinery from the eastern Europe.

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#1284 TonyDavis

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Posted 10 April 2011 - 21:13

50cc at Darleymoor - but who and when ?
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50cc racer


I'll take a guess 1978 going on the gear they're wearing, think I was at the odd meeting with 50cc grids around that time :cat:


#1285 johnnyoza

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 07:20

This is a pic of my son on a yamaha TZR 50 At zwartkops South Africa..Pic taken in 1999. Unfortunatly we have no more two stroke racing left in our country.
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#1286 Herr Wankel

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 11:36

This is a pic of my son on a yamaha TZR 50 At zwartkops South Africa..Pic taken in 1999. Unfortunatly we have no more two stroke racing left in our country.
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Sadly 2 strokes are an endangered species everywhere now J. :down:

HW

#1287 Undredseesee

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 11:55

I'll take a guess 1978 going on the gear they're wearing, think I was at the odd meeting with 50cc grids around that time :cat:





Hi Tony, ex-Bantam racer and now big Duke sprinter! :wave: What are you doing here among the tiddlers? I was going to give you a ring and to see what your plans are for this season. Hope to see you at Honington in May.

Howard

Edited by Undredseesee, 11 April 2011 - 11:56.


#1288 TonyDavis

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Posted 13 April 2011 - 21:08

Hi Tony, ex-Bantam racer and now big Duke sprinter! :wave: What are you doing here among the tiddlers? I was going to give you a ring and to see what your plans are for this season. Hope to see you at Honington in May.

Howard


Hi Howard

been lurking on this site for a while now some great nostalgia, hoping to be out this season not sure how many meetings though, I call you when I get chance ;)


#1289 Undredseesee

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Posted 15 April 2011 - 19:46

Hi Howard

been lurking on this site for a while now some great nostalgia, hoping to be out this season not sure how many meetings though, I call you when I get chance ;)



Anyone here care to join Tony and me at a sprint organised by Torque events in the East Anglia area this season? The smaller capacity classes haven't been well represented recently so it would be fantastic to see some fifties this year, but all types of bikes and all capacity classes are welcome. Check out WWW.TORQUEEVENTS.COM and have a look at the Torque Events Youtube promotional video.


#1290 Nieto

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Posted 12 May 2011 - 11:23

Beautiful machinery from the eastern Europe.

Posted Image



50cc racer


Built at the end of the 70's and early 80's by Vilko Sever (Croatia)
on original Tomos-molds, Kreidler-engines.

Here a offer for this bike:
http://www.oldracer5...q=1305202624813

Edited by Nieto, 12 May 2011 - 12:20.


#1291 50cc racer

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 20:24

Hi there

Need help in identifying persons present here?

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#1292 Nieto

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 09:57

Hi there

Need help in identifying persons present here?

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50cc racer


Hi Elsberg-Tuning,

it is Mike Cook, the bike is here
http://www.bartonpho...sale/4551582032
the same bike as on your web-site under Van Veen (with No.80,
year 1982, re-build by H.Rittberger from werks-racers of 1981.)


#1293 50cc racer

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 06:55

Hi Elsberg-Tuning,

it is Mike Cook, the bike is here
http://www.bartonpho...sale/4551582032
the same bike as on your web-site under Van Veen (with No.80,
year 1982, re-build by H.Rittberger from werks-racers of 1981.)


Thanks Nieto

Another who, where and when:

Posted Image



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#1294 HEMEYLA

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Posted 03 July 2011 - 16:43

It's Matti Kinnunen from Finland 1974.

#1295 50cc racer

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 19:25

Hi all

Second hand cylinderhead on Ebay - $$$ :eek:
http://www.ebay.co.u...l...0792594310



50cc racer

Edited by 50cc racer, 17 November 2011 - 20:18.


#1296 50cc racer

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 18:35

Tomos D6 replica for sale:

http://www.elsberg-t.../links.html#For sale



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#1297 Herr Wankel

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 08:52

[quote name='50cc racer' date='Nov 16 2011, 21:25' post='5403095']
Hi all

Second hand cylinderhead on Ebay - $$$ :eek:
http://www.ebay.co.u...l...0792594310



50cc racer

£2624 it went for,or about 10% of what it would cost to buy a complete machine today.(if you could find one for sale !!)

HW


#1298 T54

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 23:55

Well, looking at a CR110, the cylinder head is just about 10% of the bike... :)

#1299 T54

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 00:05

Well done HW and Poul Erik - California 1976 Ontario: #374 Jeff (?) Suzuki TS50, #225 Philippe deLespinay Ringhini, #787 Bob Nolan Villa.
All bikes owned by team leader Franco Garavoglia, who supplied these special pictures from the US 50cc racing scene.

Yep, I recognize my ugly mug in the center... but my AFM number was "224", all my bikes had it! :)

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

Those were fun days... :cool:

Edited by T54, 26 November 2011 - 00:15.


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#1300 Herr Wankel

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 21:43

Just read the very sad news that top tiddler rider Cees van Dongen has passed away today.RIP Cees

HW