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1962-1983: the years of fast racing 'mopeds'!


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#151 Sergio

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 13:05

Demm Dove?

Wasn't that a Dutch 50cc engine that BSA were intending to fit into their ill-fated leaning three-wheeler in the early 1970s?

I worked as an engine designer at Longbridge alongside a couple of the guys who used to work at BSA-Triumph's Design Centre at Umberslade Hall in Warwickshire (nick-named 'Slumberglade' by many) which was famed for its peacocks strutting across the lawn and the undistinguished machinery that came out of there (i.e. the Bandit). One colleague, called Mike Mills, eventually left to work for CCM (Allan Clews) I recall. Another called Jeff Bishop is now happily designing jet engine hardware for Rolls Royce in Derby.

As for the Demm Dove, so eager were BSA to get on with their new 50cc baby that they pre-ordered trillions of these little Dutch engines and when the whole project collapsed, the engines were sold off in Exchange & Mart for £5 per unit. This would have been around 1976 I believe. I bought one and still have it, unused from new, in my stores.

The one I've got has a centrifugal 'automatic' clutch and vee-belt drive - can't be certain tho'; it's over 30 years since I last handled it.

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#152 T54

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 16:13

Kreidler were first with Zundapp to provide forced-air cooling to their moped engines, followed by Sachs, then Franco-Morini (that some people mix with Minarelli that was only a frame builder), then Sachs and Flandria.
The Demm as well as Paloma, Peripoli and so many others were fitted with the forced-air Franco-Morini engine, first in the left-hand controlled 3-speed version, later with the foot-controlled 4-speed.
The air was sucked by a turbine cast into the magnetic ignition flywheel and through die cast shrouds.
Great in Rome's traffic, not good for power...

The first thing we did then was to unbolt that junk and get the correctly oriented head for proper cooling. My brother had a Paloma "Super Flash" with the forced-air cooling and it never was close to be as fast as my Ital Jet fitted with the same basic engine without that extra feature. My friend Jean-Pierre Beltoise tested my bike for Moto Revue in 1963 at Monthlery and got an average of 98km/h around the banking, while the Paloma could only do 88km/h. The best Itoms were just going 105km/h at the time, the two "works" bikes driven by Jean-Pierre and Jean-Claude Serre.
Did not matter much when the Spaniards were already getting 120km/h from their Ducsons and Derbis, fitted with proper (and noisy) expansion chambers... they were a year away from invading France. :lol:

#153 ESSEXBOY

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 16:16

I might have got the model wrong but it was definately a DEMM maybe not a DOVE

if it had been a dick dick i wouldn't have been seen out on it :rotfl:

this was a "sports" 50cc with twistgrip type gear change ala scooter type IIRC :drunk:

#154 T54

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 16:35

Demm made a "Dik Dik" (award for one of the stupidest names yet), a Dove, a Capri, a Mofa and some other weird names. The engines were both 2 and 4 stroke. A highly modified Demm supposedly reached a speed of 89MPH (seriously doubtful) in the UK.

Here is a pic of the Capri:

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Demm mopeds were pathetically slow compared to other Italian mopeds. Once modified for racing, some were somewhat competitive but never achieved speeds even close to that of the Itoms. They were favored by some Belgian racers in 1959-1960 before the European Cup began.

The speed came from Spain, here is the 1962 Ducson:

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#155 ESSEXBOY

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 18:29

just out of interest......
what do forum members consider to be the ultimate road legal 50cc bike ever available ?
here in Essex we had the Fanticmotor UK concessionaires in Hornchurch
couldn't put a year on it but late 70's i saw a very tasty looking Minarelli powered TESTI :confused:
(and I thought DIK DIK was bad!enough ):love:

it was a 6 speeder and looked the dogs nuts think it was well over £200 which was expensive then

wish i'd bought it :(

#156 T54

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Posted 16 February 2008 - 19:06

In the "Classic" era, I believe that the fastest was the 1969 Kreidler RS closely followed by the 1966 5-speed Derbi "Sport". No Italian bike with Franco-Morini engine (even the later 6-speed job) or any other Italian production bike could touch these two. :cool:
The later Fantic 6-speed was NOT Minarelli powered because as I said above, Minarelli did not build engines. Testi was another Italian manufacturer and not the name for a Fantic bike. In France, the Gitane company (no relation with the cigarette brand) was importing the Testi and was selling them under the Gitane-Testi brand. All these were powered by 3 and 4-speed Franco-Morini engines. The Fantic was Franco-Morini powered (no relation to the "other" Morini), had good low-end torque but its top speed was nothing above 90KM/H until one would put a "kit" on it, which ended with more speed but way too much racket. :mad: :)

#157 50cc racer

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 00:27

Vittorio Minarelli and Franco Morini did in 1950 start the "FBM (Fabricca Bolognese Motocicli SrL)".
Together they produced small motorcycles, mopeds, and moped engines.
In 54 they split up and Franco Morinis new business was named "Morini Franco Motori", and "Minarelli" was the name of Vittorio Minarellis factory.
At first the engines from both companies were very much alike, and some parts would interchange.
Later products slowly took on their own form and to my knowledge, no parts from the Minarelli P6 and the Morini Franco 6-speed interchanged at all.

The Morini Franco 6m from 1977:
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The Minarelli P6 of same vintage:
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#158 T54

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 01:06

These "square" motors are from the late 1970's. In the 1960's, Minarelli produced no motors. That was my point. :)

#159 50cc racer

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 10:24

The coolest legal road going moped ever?

Early seventies I visited Rome in a school outing, and near our hotel someone parked this one:

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The 1970 Tecnomoto Squalo S, it had it all, low tube frame, clipons, rearsets, doublesided front brake, Thermosiphon- cooled 8hp MoriniFranco 4- speed engine, adjustable rear shocks, glassfiber tank and seat, and just 56kg.
Price back then: 250.000Lire
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Only problem with this bike - you had to buy one for your girlfriend too.


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#160 ESSEXBOY

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 11:00

Squalo = Shark thats a proper name,a lot better than Dik Dik!!! :clap:

I bet these super sports 50's are very collectable now

#161 50cc racer

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 19:31

Yes, Fanticmotor produced some wonderful mopeds too. The Fantic TX- line were very popular in Europe sporting both 4 and 6- speed Minarelli engines.

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Ceriani suspension and a very rugged tube frame.
It is in fact a frame like this I used in modified form, for my 50cc Honda classic racer:

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#162 T54

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 20:27

Anders, it's a beauty.
I personally don't care that much for the 1970's "square" styling of things, cars, bikes and the like. So I do not like what the Italian did to their bikes then, compared with the great and attractive designs of the 1950's and 1960's. The last good-looking one in my opinion is the Ducati 750cc Grand Sport. I like the more rounded engine styling of the 1960's as well as the less gratuitous design of brakes air scoops, tanks, seats and even fairings.

When I built my all-conquering special in the mid-1970's, I tried to keep the looks to pure function, regardless of what the end would look like. What do you think?

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I built the frame from an original Steve Machin job bought from British journalist John Weed. There was not much left of the frame after I was done with it. I think that I was one of the first to angle the shocks for greater travel, like Suzuki did later on their 750's. I modified them with a long alloy tower so as to get them to fit. I raised the engine position in the frame and placed it another 2" back from where it was, then redesignd the whole fairing and footpegs stays.

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I made my own cylinder block on top of a reinforced AS1 crankcase purchased in a junkyard for 10 bucks, with the crank bearings screwed in place (they had a tendency to rotate inside the cases). I modified the 5-speed cluster into a six-speed, using some existing Yamaha gears, narrowing them to fit, and a revision of the shifting drum. I seriously revised the wet clutch design and mounted it on needle bearings. Later I used a dry clutch made in France but it did not work as well.
I machined my own water pump driven by the former oil pump plastic gear, and used a discarded Kawasaki radiator as well as other discarded parts coming from the Kawasaki R&D thrash bin in Santa Ana, California, to build this bike. It included a Harley 250cc seat that I cut, shortened and narrowed, as well as other small bits. I made the fairing from a discarded Yamaha 250 unit, cut down, narrowed, shortened, and fitted with a "bubble" on the right side to contain the water pump.
Hence the name of the bike, the "Garbage Can Special" or GCS. I built the tuned exhaust, made new pistons from Hepolite forgings and used plain cast-iron liners, ported by my good friend Hurley Wilvert who was a driver for Team Hansen at Daytona. We used an extra "boost port" and holes in the piston to obtain a greater charge. The ignition was standard Yamaha TZ250, the tack by Kroeber. All used bits and pieces purchased or donated by racing buddies. The front disc brake was made of uncoated aluminum discs and Honda 500cc calipers. I retained the AS1 rear wheel but fitted alloy D.I.D. wider rims for the special K81 "soft compound" Dunlop tires supplied free of charge by Joe Hunt, the Dunlop Racing distributor then. The tank was an alloy job from Steve Machin, modified with an aircraft flush cap and various other mods. We put the engine on a Froude dyno and read 31HP, a substantial increase over the TA125 I previously raced, that did not handle well, had poor braking and very suspect reliability.

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Took me 3 races to sort it out, then it won just about every race in south and north California that it entered. Completey obliterated the other 125's there, TA125's, Honda MT125's, Bultaco TSS's, even the Villa-Montesa's. It just won and won and won until I obtained the drive on the works Morbidelli in 1978.

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I sold it then, and it surfaced in an auction a year ago in Florida. A good friend of mine bought it after some fierce bidding as it sold for an astounding $40K! Cost me 1600 bucks to build in 1974. Someone really wanted it bad I guess. It was quite dusty but quite original, still sporting its original paint. The tank had been repainted with a cartoon of a little beat-up steel garbage can complete with banana peels and flies circling it!

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So now it will be on display in a museum in Los Angeles...

T54
Old and still nuts about geat racing bikes as well as neat old racing cars... :)

#163 50cc racer

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 21:56

Fantastic story T54! A garbage can wrapped in the colours of the Tricolore :lol: Thats my kind of bike, low built but still adequate travel. I guess it needed some dialing in, before getting there...
I´ve always thought that the boost port and holes in the piston were ingenious, a good way to cool the piston from underside.
Those brake discs - what type of aluminum, presumeable hard?
Looks lightweight too - how much did it weigh?

Really nice compact bike! Reminded me of the Condor.


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#164 Sergio

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 23:05

T54 - what a man!

What an absolute thing of beauty he created in his GCS. And of course, it wasn't a case of calling up the proprietary racing bit suppliers and bolting the resultant bits tig ether. No; T54 did it all himself. Fantastic.

And modifying a 5-speed box into a 6-speeder? Now that's a bit difficult when you're dealing with hardened gears and splined shafts, and machining circlip grooves and that ignores the selector mechanism. And by raising the 125's power and torque, T54 also increased the loads on the gears - and yet he probably had to slim them down too.

But that's what I like about a thoroughbred design be it motorcycle racer, F1 car or military aircraft. Everything's there for a purpose otherwise dump it. No surplus brackets or superfluous, over-complex fittings. The KISS philosophy rules supreme in successful racers. And if it's got to be there, make it light, light, light... That means using safety factors in the low single digits and exotic metals. Worshipping at the altar of supreme lightness is a costly and time consuming obsession too.

How's this for a simple example? The Suzuki XR34M cylinder/head bolt that's been lying on my bookshelves these past 25 years is (of course) titanium. It's a waisted design to equalise the stresses along its entire length (this also reduces weight); it's hex head is one size smaller than usual so a 10mm bolt has an 8mm hex head; the head is counterbored too for lightness. I swear when I throw it in the air it just floats away.

But much as I love T54's exquisitely-crafted machine, I can't allow him to take the credit for the angled rear shocks when that great designer Phil Irving was using them on Velocettes in 1938 and was a standard feature on all spring-frame production Velocettes (350-500cc) from 1953 until the firm's demise in 1971. Admittedly, they were introduced not to increase wheel travel but effectively to allow adjustment of the spring-rate; softer for solo use and harder for two-up riding.

You'll have to imagine this design because I'd insert a pic here but it's such a complicated process that I haven't quite figured out how to do do it. Why isn't it a simple COPY & PASTE affair straight into a posting?

How would I describe the GCS in three words: "Function before form" and that's the name of the racing game. If it looks good too (and FBF machines tend to be little beauties anyway) then that's a bonus.

Well done T54.

#165 T54

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Posted 17 February 2008 - 23:43

Hi Anders and Ray,
Thanks for the compliments! Indeed the angled shocks were not new, but in the modern times of the early 1970's they were as just about every racing bike had them straight up! Hurley Wilvert and I figured out that with more travel, we would gain over the rather un-smooth Californian racing tracks, especially Willow Springs. So we simply did it and a year later, the Team Suzuki suddenly re-invented them too! :lol: Hurley also re-valved the front Ceriani forks and we used softer springs for better compliance.

The bike weighed 173lbs with fuel and oil. I kept all the race records, jetting, gear ratios... in a spiral-bound book, just like I did in the 1960's for the slot cars! I must really be a nutcase. :lol:

At that time in the early 1970's, I was a design engineer for the Cox toy company, up the street from Dan Gurney's All American Racers. I was designing mechanical toys during the day and at the same time was in charge of the decoration of the Eagle Indy cars, a function I kept to the very end of the Eagles. I have begun a small web site to show all the variations over the years.
The remanufacturing of the gearbox cluster was done at AAR by the late Jerry Whitfield and Yours Truly. The gears were surface ground and thinned, but they were strong enough and I have always been very kind on machinery, so they took it and never gave me problems The shifting drum heat treatment was removed by heating the bejezus out of it, then new grooves milled, some welded up, and then ground and re-tempered. It was a bit smaller in diameter so we machined new steel rings that fitted in the original crankase.
It was not an easy task but the guys at the Eagle nest were tops! Phil Remington fashioned the front-brake anchors in stainless steel, as well as a few bits and pieces on the bike. The fiberglass work was done by Camber in Costa Mesa after I cut and matched the various pieces. Camber also made the body panels for the Eagle Indy cars and since I have one (almost finished) today, one can see their business card embedded inside the glass panels, as well as in the fairing of this bike! This bike was featured in an issue of Cycle World with a full 2-page story by John Ulrich, and its picture often appeared in AFM and other papers (even in the Los Angeles Times!) as it kept winning races. In 1976, it turned a lap at Ontario Motor Speedway within one second of that of Paul Smart on the works Triumph there in 1970, or is that 1971. I was a very prudent rider and never took any chances, but was rather pleased to see that my friend Jody Nicholas turned exactly the same lap time as I did on the same Morbidelli motorcycle at Riverside raceway on the same day, so I am pretty sure that I extracted close to the max from the little bike.
That thing was fast, handled superbly and could brake really hard from its 7075T6 brake disks. It did however require a LOT of maintenance, and I had to change pistons and rings at almost every race, sometimes between practice and the race, going larger as the season progressed. It was a bit of a pain! Fortunately the head design used O-rings for head gaskets and sealing was never an issue.

I am really pleased that we got it back in our museum, even if the cost was a bit insane! The same gentleman also purchased at that same auction, the ex-works Morbidelli 125 that Giancarlo Morbidelli gifted to me in 1989 and that I had stupidly let go of. Here it is:

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And a pic of when I was using it:

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I also found this other pic of the GCS showing that the rear shocks really worked hard:

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I am pretty sure that we can get it going again, as I retained many NOS spares for all that time!

T54

#166 ESSEXBOY

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Posted 18 February 2008 - 18:28

:wave: RESPECT!
i have trouble banging a nail in straight! :p


T54

did you ever cross paths with Dan Hanebrink?

#167 T54

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Posted 18 February 2008 - 19:57

Indeed, I first met Dan Hanebrink in 1971 at Riverside Raceway. He was driving his monocoque bike, with the 3-cylinder snowmobile engine, belt-driven, automatic transmission, mag-wheel equiped job. Quite a machine! I also visited Dan in his shop in Costa Mesa (if I recall correctly) and he showed me his Kawasaki 3-cylinder powered all-terrain "box" vehicle. Quite impressive, out of the box creative brain... I have not seen him in many moons and heard that he was now involved in downhill gravity racing. That sounds pretty dangerous enough! :lol:

#168 Sergio

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Posted 18 February 2008 - 20:14

I just want to say that 50cc Racer's lovely little Honda seems to have hit the press on a bad day and been eclipsed by T54's innovative labour of love GCS.

Actually, I think this little Honda machine is beautiful with it's neat frame design and underslung matt black engine. As before, not an ounce of unnecessary metal to be found anywhere. And it looks like a colour stylist has been at work because black, red and silver are a perfect combination (as Honda well knew).

This is a really neat machine and if I owned it, I couldn't use it.

I'd hang it on the wall.

#169 T54

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Posted 18 February 2008 - 20:56

I agree 100%. That little Honda is a jewel, and I certainly would not mind having it as decoration. My dream has always been to own a CR110, and this is about the closest one could come if you are not one of the lucky ones.
I am sorry that I posted the pics of my own racers, because Anders's little Honda is so pretty and I did not mean to overshadow his efforts..

I am also so pleased that Cedric from France has posted some great old pictures and has since sent me many more. This Nostalgia Forum is indeed the greatest communication means for enthusiasts who would never had an opportunity to meet or meet again just a few years ago.

#170 ESSEXBOY

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Posted 18 February 2008 - 20:57

hi sorry if a little off topic (creative engineers)as opposed to racing 50's

When T54 mentioned Costa Mesa in his earlier post it reminded me of some research i did years ago
on Dan Hanebrink.
a friend of mine in the UK owns an Ex-Cliff Carr Kawasaki H1R 500 triple,
his bike is reputed to be an EX-Team Hansen bike and is covered in cutting edge period engineering details carried out by Dan Hanebrink.
much like T54 he didn't head for the mainstream parts dealers,he made his own 12 spoke magnesium cast wheels and his own "monoblock" calipers and his own disc rotors.
Costa Mesa seems to have been the centre of engineering excellence for the whole of the USA,

apologies for side tracking the thread :drunk:

#171 innesmorton

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 21:35

Just in case you guys wanted to hear one of these again...........

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Hopefully this sould work in youtube.

Also if you look here

http://www.racing-mo....co.uk/sold.php

and scroll past half to 3/4 down you should find a beautiful MBA125 - now I think this is the same that Len Carr rode circ 78/9/80. I used to go and watch with my dad who was a friend of Len's. I understand this sold for about £4500. I would have brought it if I'd known if only to have something beautiful to look at in this house!! Anyone got one for sale???????????

Fantastic forum, really brought back some memories and I can smell the 2 stroke!!

#172 T54

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 22:02

That's very interesting: in the first video, this is a bike I got in Italy from Ringhini and sold 15 years later to someone in the Eastern United States. I recognize it because of the little Stand 21 logo on the side of the windscreen. I am pleased that they got it running again! :)

I am also looking for a used engine or complete internals for one. Anyone?

#173 50cc racer

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 19:21

There is a 78 MBA + spares for sale here:

http://www.classic-r...kes&detail=1273

and more:

http://classifieds.c...php?siteid=6565



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#174 T54

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 20:17

Thanks! I have contacted both parties. :)

#175 50cc racer

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 21:26

FWD racer :up:

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#176 T54

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 22:19

Holy Del'Lorto! Quite a Velosolex! :rotfl:

#177 innesmorton

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 19:24

Hi

I'm still pretty new around here, sorry if this is completely off topic, but re: the MBA / Morbidelli 125, Len Carr raced one in late 70s. I remember mainly going to watch at Mallory and Snetterton where he raced aginst John Kernan plus others, obviously.......

I have a vague-ish memory about a race at Cadwell though. Len led on lap one but later fell in the race and was passed before he fell by Johannsen. Now I always thought (and was told by an "expert" ahem!!) that this was the Benga Johannsen that partnered the late great Jock Taylor for several years in the sidecar.

Reading the forums............ if anyone does indeed know this, they will be somewhere on here I'm sure. :smoking:

I'll have hunt for a programme

#178 50cc racer

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 21:04

Craftmanship par excellence!

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#179 T54

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 01:46

Pretty job looking somewhat like MZ inspired. Show us more please? :)

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#180 50cc racer

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 21:11

The man behind this fantastic creation and many more, is one of the truly unsung heroes.
Dutchman Herman Meijer from Laren is the one who designed and created the Hemeyla 50cc racers, at first loosely based on a Kreidler, and later from the ground up. Modular crankcases, watercooled barrels, and his speciality: transmissions, innovative in design and simply work of art.

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When Barry Sheene came second in the 1971 125cc world championship, the six- speed transmission of his ex- Graham Suzuki, were indeed made by Herman Meijer.
When you get to think of it its just brilliant, to cram six speeds into a housing designed for four, by narrowing the gears seeing a lower multiplication of torque. Wide first - slim sixt.

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Being a very capable driver too, he drove for Jamathi during 71, here he´s second to Barry Sheene in Brno

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And now he is sharing his story, on this website, created by himself of course:
http://www.hemeyla.nl/
Here you can watch an animation of a Herman Meijer 6- speed pull- stud transmission!
Fascinating stuff!!!



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#181 T54

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 22:15

Cool! I don't know much about Meijer, this is excellent info. :)

#182 ESSEXBOY

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 00:01

My friend had a Maserati sports roadbike around 1969 think it was a 65cc

was there any connection with the famous car marque or was it simply a case of badge marketing?

was a rare thing in England even back then

any info? :wave:

#183 HEMEYLA

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Posted 03 March 2008 - 11:00

Hello everyone from this country of windmills, wooden shoes and screaming 'mopeds'.

Interesting things are going on here, so it's time for my first post with some info about 50cc racing in the Netherlands.

Last saturday our old friend Jan Thiel and wife Nim had their farewell party organised by the Dutch Jamathi club, at the American Motorcycle Museum at Raalte N.L.
It was a fantastic meeting with al those mostly gray- or non haired ex racing drivers, tuners, officials and others from the golden years of 50cc racing.

After al those years of G.P. racing, Jan will enjoy his retirement at Thailand, homeland from his wife Nim.

For pictures and story's look at http://www.jamathi.net

In post #62 from "50cc racer" Anders are some pictures from monocoque Jamathi's.

Now some pics from the very first Jamathi monocoque frame'd racer build in 1971/72.

L to R: Jan Thiel, Theo Timmer and the late Martin Mijwaart, R.I.P. hero.


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#184 Russell Burrows

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Posted 03 March 2008 - 11:02

Originally posted by ESSEXBOY
My friend had a Maserati sports roadbike around 1969 think it was a 65cc

was there any connection with the famous car marque or was it simply a case of badge marketing?

was a rare thing in England even back then

any info? :wave:


From a 1960 ad. A couple of them listed in the 50 race, Brands 1960.

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#185 philippe7

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Posted 03 March 2008 - 13:47

Originally posted by HEMEYLA
Hello everyone from this country of windmills, wooden shoes and screaming 'mopeds'.


Welcome to the forum, Mr Herman Meijer ! Nice to have you around . We have quite a few former racers on here ( also in the "Motorcycle Racing Nostalgia" threads ) but you have by far the greatest achievement in terms of results : 4th in a Road racing World Championship , congratulations !

http://racingmemo.fr...ents_71-050.htm

Looking forward to your stories and contributions !

#186 HEMEYLA

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Posted 03 March 2008 - 17:25

Thanks Philippe for your nice welcome, i will forward this message to my friend Herman by e-mail.

It is not the first time in all those WWW years on different forums that my misleading nickname gives a reaction like yours, never mind, this nick is my tribute to this fantastic technician and racer, you can see Herman as my 'father in racing'.

So you have to look much further down the list to find me, as the only one who achieved points in the championship for the brand Hemeyla, 1971 was my first GP at our TT-Assen.

For about one year Herman started working on his website www.hemeyla.nl, still busy whith it as you can see at the latest gearbox animations he made.

His racing career started in 1963 after a period we all had in this 'frogland' with 'tuning' our mopeds to the limit for racing against 'the man in blue' on public roads. :lol:

So learn a little from our beatyfull Dutch language and enjoy your stay at the wonderfull world of Hemeyla racing. ;)

To be continued..........

#187 philippe7

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Posted 03 March 2008 - 17:33

Hello Ton, welcome to you too then, sorry for the mistake :blush: , and congratulations on also being "on the list" in the World Championship standings, in 71, 73, and 74 !

#188 HEMEYLA

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Posted 03 March 2008 - 20:19

Good research Philippe, where would we be whithout the giant effort from Vincent. :clap:

For sure i was a green as grass at Assen 1971, but there was rain the last three laps, lots of fast guys in front of me inspected the asphalt from to nearby and 10th place was mine.

Started racing in 1969 whith my home brew bike with Kreidler engine, 10 races to go for the national championship class.

50cc racing was so popular in those years that most of the time the whole bunch of +/- 90 riders was divided by three, to ride series to be placed in the final race, ended 9th in the championship and promoted to the international class for 1970.

Always will remember the last (non championship) race from 1969 at Asten (in the south N.L.), won my serie, but the engine clutch was just before the point of explosion, and no parts available for repair, the solution came from Herman Meijer, he offered me his Hemeyla racer after his own race in the international class, that was good enough for me to reach 3rd place and my first podium, don't talk about how to drive that little thing (Herman is about 15cm shorter than me). :D

So you can imagine which engine make was on the fearing the next 10 years. :)

#189 HEMEYLA

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Posted 03 March 2008 - 20:24

Originally posted by ESSEXBOY
My friend had a Maserati sports roadbike around 1969 think it was a 65cc

was there any connection with the famous car marque or was it simply a case of badge marketing?

was a rare thing in England even back then

any info? :wave:


Info at: http://www.maserati-...k/alfieri35.htm

#190 T54

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Posted 03 March 2008 - 23:11

"Hemeyla"
Welcome to the Nostalgia Forum, 50cc & 125cc GP Racing Department As Well As Other Bizarre & Wonderful Associated Road Machinery (NFGPRDAWAOBWARM in brief :lol: ).
And many thanks for the great info that you already supplied. I am in utter amazement to find out that I was not the only person who actually cared in my old days, what a great international fraternity this has become. :)
Regards,

T54

#191 HEMEYLA

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Posted 05 March 2008 - 23:39

Thanks for the nice welcome "T54" Philippe, just checked your ratings at the LRT forum and saw they make good progression, you must be a hero already in this very wet country.

So when you ever are brave enough to visit us here, mostly under seelevel, you have to sign a lot of wooden shoes from al those racing fans. :lol:

The next great meeting in the Netherlands will be the reunion from the N.M.B. (Nederlandse Motorsport Bond) on 3 May at Udenhout, already +/- 350 ex racers signed in now, so for sure this will be one of the greatest reunions ever.

Nothing new at the moment from the closed 50cc racing museum at Lexmond, it is moved to another nearby building and will be open on request for groups and special guests in the future, as said some time ago.

Edited by HEMEYLA, 08 September 2010 - 14:27.


#192 T54

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Posted 06 March 2008 - 00:26

Thanks! What is the LRT forum? :)

#193 HEMEYLA

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 01:17

This one: http://www.limburgra...23444#msg223444

Congratulations to Ralph Bryans, celebrating his 66th birthdag :

Posted Image

#194 T54

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 02:54

Ton,
Thanks for the link!

I DO still have that very helmet... :cat:

http://www.limburgra...ach=29038;image

But the lenses are broken on the goggles. :

Happy birthday Ralph, you are one year older than I am... :cool:

#195 barrykm

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 04:14

Originally posted by HEMEYLA
This one: http://www.limburgra...23444#msg223444

Congratulations to Ralph Bryans, celebrating his 66th birthdag :

Posted Image


Looking at this great pic, am I correct in recalling that the front brakes of he Honda were somewhat different...? Sort of super rim-brakes, rather than drum brakes? Over to the fundis.

#196 T54

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 05:41

The front brake on the RC116 were effective disc brakes, using the D.I.D. rim as friction material. The system was entirely mechanical and worked great. It allowed the use of aero discs on the wheel, gaining a mile per hour or so of top speed from decreased drag. I am still amazed that Honda did not extrapolate and use the system on their larger bikes since it was so efficient and light.
Many years later and while sketching an idea for a 125cc Gilera (in 1996 to be exact), I used that very design on carbon-fiber rims, with four-piston calipers cast directly into a profiled front end actuated by double wishbones.

Posted Image

At the time Honda used this novel and effective system, most competitive 50cc used large and rather heavy two-cam dual drum brakes that were at best, mediocre compared to any disc system. Campagnolo was first to market a true disc brake (on the 50cc Mondial in 1967) but they were mechanical and lacked the pressure necessary and only provided by hydraulic operation. My Derbi used a beautiful but heavy all magnesium Fontana unit, a most beautiful piece of mechanical art that did not work that well.

#197 50cc racer

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Posted 08 March 2008 - 20:16

As I expected when joining TNF, the technical level would be a reflection of the users/ members, and now the bar has been raised to new heights!
A very warm welcome to Hemeyla/ Ton, who is the one I turn to when in doubt.

Posted Image

Here he is racing a Nico Bakker Kreidler in 79.

Ton, join the quiz: Name this 50cc GP engine?

Posted Image


50cc racer

#198 HEMEYLA

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Posted 10 March 2008 - 23:55

Just received the sad message that we lost our racing friend Ton Daleman.

Ton was a well known Dutch 50cc tuner and racing driver, started racing in 1967 with his Garelli and Kreidler based ROTON creations, dozens of drivers used his very well designed machines, his famous electronic ingnition systems have been used all over the world.

May he rest in peace.

www.rotonracing.nl

Posted Image


#199 emotracing

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 13:29

Hello,

I am new here ,on this day with very sad news standing just above my reply.

Hello to Ton and Anders....
:wave:

I am a 50cc racing enthousiast ,driver and collector.
My work is my hobby ,I have a (50cc) racing workshop.
In my collection I have a Works Riga 19S and a Eastgerman homebuilt Simson racer. These are both very authentic and raceready.
Also I own a Tatran and another Simson. These two I built myself.
A very old ,one off, 5 speed Victoria waits for restauration ,and I am building a Casal racer for next years racing.
Yesterday I bought a Uhl-Stein Kreidler ,which will be used as a spare bike.

This winter a small group of Dutch enthousiasts ,including me, started to work on a europe wide 50cc classic racing series.
It seems we got this running...next weekend we will have our first race meeting.
30 members signed in. amongst them Aalt Toersen ,Cees van Dongen ,Peter Müller ,Ingo Emmerich ,Luc Foekema ,and others.
We will have meetings this year at Linköping-Sweden ,Frohburg-Germany ,Zwolle-Holland ,Staphorst-Holland.
Also we are working on meetings at Djurslandring-Denmark ,Horice-Czech Rep. ,and Oschersleben-Germany.
50cc racebikes aged before 1984 are allowed to join.
Its racing...no regularity run.. racing for fun.

Martijn

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#200 Macca

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Posted 17 March 2008 - 19:40

Here are some photos from the Race Retro show, of bikes on the 50cc association stand - I'm sure you'll know far more about them than me:

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

Paul M