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1962-1983: the years of fast racing 'mopeds'!


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#301 HEMEYLA

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Posted 22 May 2008 - 23:00

Congratulations to Leif Rosell, celebrating his 64th birthday :

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#302 50cc racer

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Posted 23 May 2008 - 18:09

Leif Rosell preparing his Jamathi for the 72 Austrian GP.

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#303 50+

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Posted 25 May 2008 - 21:27

Re Herr Wankel's post 21/1/2008.

CR110 Hughie McIvor.

The CR110 raced by Hughie McIvor was raced by myself before I sold it to Hughie in 1970/71, & was definately 8 speed. I bought the bike from Paul Hammond of Hemel Hampstead in late '68/ early '69. I raced it at Cadwell, Snetterton, Brands Hatch & Lydden, & also at the 1969 Ulster G.P. ( Hughie McIvor was entered on an Itom). The best result was 2nd in the 1969 Racing 50 MCC Enduro at Snetterton, although this was mainly due to the efforts of my riding partner Ian Forster.

The history of the bike as far as I know is that it was tuned by Phil Kettle, the Manx Norton tuner ( I think he changed the position of the contact breaker). Unfortunately, I can't remember the name of the rider. I'm sure it was featured in a MCN track test in '65/'66. I think Hughie lent it to Trevor Burgess, who had some success on it. There are a couple of photos of the bike on pages 29 & 31 in Mick Walker's book Japanese Production Racing Motorcycles. I also have some photos, which I will post when I work out how to do it. If any more facts come back to me I'll let you know.

Hope I'm of some help.

#304 philippe7

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 09:55

Hello friends,

A selection of "fast racing mopeds" from last weekend's "Coupes Moto-Légende" on the Dijon-Prenois circuit

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Jan de Vries and Alt Toersen ( to name just the most famous ) were at work on the track to make those machines scream !
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#305 Herr Wankel

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 10:07

Originally posted by 50+
Re Herr Wankel's post 21/1/2008.

CR110 Hughie McIvor.

The CR110 raced by Hughie McIvor was raced by myself before I sold it to Hughie in 1970/71, & was definately 8 speed. I bought the bike from Paul Hammond of Hemel Hampstead in late '68/ early '69. I raced it at Cadwell, Snetterton, Brands Hatch & Lydden, & also at the 1969 Ulster G.P. ( Hughie McIvor was entered on an Itom). The best result was 2nd in the 1969 Racing 50 MCC Enduro at Snetterton, although this was mainly due to the efforts of my riding partner Ian Forster.

The history of the bike as far as I know is that it was tuned by Phil Kettle, the Manx Norton tuner ( I think he changed the position of the contact breaker). Unfortunately, I can't remember the name of the rider. I'm sure it was featured in a MCN track test in '65/'66. I think Hughie lent it to Trevor Burgess, who had some success on it. There are a couple of photos of the bike on pages 29 & 31 in Mick Walker's book Japanese Production Racing Motorcycles. I also have some photos, which I will post when I work out how to do it. If any more facts come back to me I'll let you know.

Hope I'm of some help.


Hi 50+,
Thanks for the Hughie McIvor info.I understand (although not confirmed) that Hughie has since sold the old girl.It was watching Hughie,Chris Walpole,Chris Geary,Arthur Lawn,Nigel Stone and Fran Redfern(on the immaculate JCB Honda's) and others in the early 70's all on CR110's that made me lust after my own.Eventually it happened.I was not dissapointed(except in my 1st race,finished last,couldnt handle all those cogs)and had my 1st win on it in the same year.Does anyone know Hughies whereabouts these days.He used to run Ashton Quality Cars (AQC on the fairing) Ashton under Lyme?Any other Darley Moor?Racing 50 Club refugees out there?
Herr W

#306 Herr Wankel

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 10:18

Originally posted by philippe7
Hello friends,

A selection of "fast racing mopeds" from last weekend's "Coupes Moto-Légende" on the Dijon-Prenois circuit

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Jan de Vries and Alt Toersen ( to name just the most famous ) were at work on the track to make those machines scream !
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Hi Phillipe

Thanks for the great 50 photos.I must drag my sorry 'ass' to Dijon next time (no excuse now I'm this side of the Manche.
Nigel Stone had an ex Theo Timmer Jamathi in the UK way back,Used to get 'Duffed Up' by Brian Crighton on his very trick CR110 on occassion.
2 nice Honda RC reps,and No.7 looks like a TR50 Suzy.If it is they are as rare as Rocking Horse Poo!
Jan de Vries can still peddle the V V Kreidler at a fair old lick!
HW

#307 50cc racer

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 20:56

Originally posted by Herr Wankel

Hi Phillipe

Thanks for the great 50 photos.I must drag my sorry 'ass' to Dijon next time (no excuse now I'm this side of the Manche.
Nigel Stone had an ex Theo Timmer Jamathi in the UK way back,Used to get 'Duffed Up' by Brian Crighton on his very trick CR110 on occassion.
2 nice Honda RC reps,and No.7 looks like a TR50 Suzy.If it is they are as rare as Rocking Horse Poo!
Jan de Vries can still peddle the V V Kreidler at a fair old lick!
HW


This picture shows Nigel Stone pursuing Ludwig Fassbender in the 71 GP of Germany.

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What happened to the Jamathi? Did it stay in UK?



50cc racer

#308 Herr Wankel

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Posted 26 May 2008 - 21:43

Originally posted by 50cc racer


This picture shows Nigel Stone pursuing Ludwig Fassbender in the 71 GP of Germany.

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What happened to the Jamathi? Did it stay in UK?



50cc racer


Not sure if its still in the UK,but I seem to remember Nigel having 2 in succession!Lucky devil.It was 20 mph faster than my own modified (used 16000 RPM) CR110 on the Darley Moor straight
HW

#309 HEMEYLA

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Posted 27 May 2008 - 07:34

Originally posted by Herr Wankel

Hi Phillipe

Thanks for the great 50 photos.I must drag my sorry 'ass' to Dijon next time (no excuse now I'm this side of the Manche.
Nigel Stone had an ex Theo Timmer Jamathi in the UK way back,Used to get 'Duffed Up' by Brian Crighton on his very trick CR110 on occassion.
2 nice Honda RC reps,and No.7 looks like a TR50 Suzy.If it is they are as rare as Rocking Horse Poo!
Jan de Vries can still peddle the V V Kreidler at a fair old lick!
HW


Steve Nugent on Suzy TR50 at Oldebroek revival 2007. :smoking:

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#310 HEMEYLA

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Posted 27 May 2008 - 07:50

Originally posted by philippe7
Hello friends,

A selection of "fast racing mopeds" from last weekend's "Coupes Moto-Légende" on the Dijon-Prenois circuit

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Look at the right of Suzy. :eek:

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#311 philippe7

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Posted 27 May 2008 - 09:48

Yes, I did see that too..... Incredible , eh ? a 500cc 2-strokes V10 made with Itom cylinders , and used for sidecar racing iirc ....amazing.... :love:

#312 50+

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Posted 27 May 2008 - 12:22

I am trying to post some photos & scans without success. I've tried FAQ, but can't find compostion page or browse. Can anyboby help?

#313 Herr Wankel

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Posted 27 May 2008 - 12:45

Originally posted by 50+
I am trying to post some photos & scans without success. I've tried FAQ, but can't find compostion page or browse. Can anyboby help?


Try photo bucket.I find it reasonable to use.Eagerly awaiting pics
Good luck HW

#314 renzobalbo

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Posted 28 May 2008 - 17:59

excuse me but this tread is so extended for me to read all therefore I don't know if you already spoken to this spanish site

#315 50+

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 17:06

Re Herr Wankel 26/5/2008.

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Yes, finally managed to crack posting photos.

First two photos are Snetterton esses in 1969/70.
As you can see from the last two photos, I had the tank & seat sprayed red & the frame was nickel plated. I assume for later photos that Hughie McIvor changed the colours back to the original.

#316 T54

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 17:22

The Suzuki TR50 is indeed a rare beast as so few were produced. They were also desperately SLOW! A similar story as that of the Derbi "Nieto Replica" produced in the early 1970's, a total waste. Both are tough machines to find today. :
Philippe, thanks for the great pictures! :)

T54

#317 philippe7

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 19:08

My pleasure, T54....I posted other pics of bigger bikes on the "main" motorcycle nostalgia thread too...oh, and I mentioned your name to Jean-Paul Boinet who sends his regards ;)

#318 T54

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 19:16

Thanks Philippe, et c'est mutuel! :)

#319 philippe7

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 19:26

:wave: Did you see that incredible thing that Michelle Duff told me about the official Yamaha Classic Team replica equipped with the 350 square 4 morbidelli engine we discussed a while ago :eek:

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#320 Herr Wankel

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Posted 29 May 2008 - 19:57

Originally posted by 50+
Re Herr Wankel 26/5/2008.

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Yes, finally managed to crack posting photos.

First two photos are Snetterton esses in 1969/70.
As you can see from the last two photos, I had the tank & seat sprayed red & the frame was nickel plated. I assume for later photos that Hughie McIvor changed the colours back to the original.


Nice one 50+,brought a lump to the Throat.Yes Hughie changed the seat but to a Bultaco one as he couldn't get a proper CR.That is until I sold him the original from mine.I too had a different one,just a piece of lightly upholstered alloy.Bloody uncomfortable but light!When I last saw it, it still had the nickel frame.
The CR110 was lovely thing to ride,but the 2 strokes were coming.After the CR had a couple of stints on a quick Garelli special,did ok but hated the damn thing,so had a rest and then went hillclimbing(bikes that is) on a 580 CCM.Bit of a contrast?
HW

#321 50cc racer

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 19:12

There were other 50cc racebikes equipped with 4 stroke engines:

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#322 Hoofhearted

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 05:23

A friend of mine sent me the link to this thread. As a lover of 50s I have found it fascinating and educational. I raced 50s in Ireland in the late 70s and early 80s. Delighted to see they are stil alive and well. This is a shot of me at Mondello Park, 1980.

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#323 T54

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 17:05

I always loved Motoms... I nearly bought one in 1967. I should have! :)

#324 50cc racer

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 05:38

Originally posted by T54
I always loved Motoms... I nearly bought one in 1967. I should have! :)


Did you notice the exciting DOHC- conversion, raising horsepower level to above five !



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#325 Hoofhearted

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 06:11

50cc Racer, I'm coming in a bit late on this thread but I have thoroughly enjoyed all the posts. Your site is terrific!!! As I said I'm a long time 50 fan. This is a photo of a trip we made to the Isle of Man in 1980. We went over to race at the Jurby road circuit. The green Kreidler is Robert Dunlop's (God rest his soul), the monocoque is a Minerelli motored special belonging to Don Carlisle, and the orange tanked Kreidler with the bottom half of the fairing removed is mine.

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#326 50cc racer

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 06:30

Very interesting bikes from the UK racing scene !
Welcome Hoofhearted, we are all looking forward to hear your stories :wave:

Details and close ups of the bikes would be appreciated :D



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#327 Hoofhearted

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 07:13

Thank you for the welcome. I'm in Southern California now and unfortunately still a member of the working class. And I still have to work and its late. I will post some more photos later. Heres a shot of the Kreidler in 1978, I think. Turvey Ave. outside Dublin. Kilo sprint. Note the great safety/run off we had at the time. My wife posing on it. A wonderful machine.

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#328 ex Rhodie racer

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 09:00

50´s racing in South Africa was very strong in the late 60´s early 70´s, and I know that both Kork Ballington, as well as Alan North, cut their teeth on 50´s. I wonder if any South African contributors have pics of either of them?

#329 T54

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 18:52

Did you notice the exciting DOHC- conversion, raising horsepower level to above five !


You bet your dry clutch I did! :cool:

Welcome to all our new online friends, please share your pictures and stories from your racing days... we enjoy them all!

Here is a pic of Yours Truly at Riverside in 1976, aboard an 8-speed water cooled Villa, a rather rare bike nowadays!

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Walter and Francesco Villa were indeed very capable manufacturers as well as very talented racers...

T54

#330 50cc racer

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 19:46

Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer
50´s racing in South Africa was very strong in the late 60´s early 70´s, and I know that both Kork Ballington, as well as Alan North, cut their teeth on 50´s. I wonder if any South African contributors have pics of either of them?


The only Africa based racer I know of is this Kreidler- special ! If there is one, there is more :D

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T54: That Villa, did it have a frame like this one ? 8- speed !!! - in 76 ??? Special rules in the states ?

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#331 T54

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Posted 03 June 2008 - 20:59

This one looks more modern and is certainly a 6-speed since the regs changed in 1970. I believe that the Villa I drove was from 1974 and built for the Italian championship where there were no FIM restrictions, hence the 8-speed cluster. It was supposed to develop 15.5HP at 13500RPM. It sure scooted pretty well as I won the class that day over four Kreidlers and a few assorted losers... :)

#332 Hoofhearted

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 03:43

This is a shot of part of the grid at the Jurby road race in the Isle of Man, 1980. Don Carlisle and monocoque/Minerelli spl. is in the middle. Robert Dunlop won (going away. Such was his talent) at an average speed of 72+mph. I managed second at 69.99mph. Which still annoys me. Why couldn't they just have said 70mph? I have a few others I'll post later.

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I took this on the way over to the Island. Its Strangford Lough, Northern Ireland. Robert Dunlop and Cal Crowe. Cal is sitting on a Minerelli. He rode a Minerelli but I'm not sure if that is his. Minerellis were popular in Northern Ireland at that time. Its the same boat that used to take Joey's Hondas over. The boat sank a couple of years after I took this photo. It had Joey's works Hondas on board at the time. They recovered the Hondas but I'm not sure of the fate of the boat.

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#333 T54

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 16:50

You guys look great! :)

#334 Hoofhearted

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Posted 04 June 2008 - 20:27

Maybe I can ask a question here. This is my Kreidler as I bought it. I bought it from a guy in England. He didn't know much about it. He guessed the frame was Dutch but that was about all he new. The engine was OK but not spectacular. Krober ignition. The second engine I buought was said to be a VanVeen. I hinestly don't know but it hd much larger fins on the head an barrel and went an awful lot faster. Is there anybody out there who can shed a bit of light on this bike?

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#335 50cc racer

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 06:15

Originally posted by Hoofhearted
Maybe I can ask a question here. This is my Kreidler as I bought it. I bought it from a guy in England. He didn't know much about it. He guessed the frame was Dutch but that was about all he new. The engine was OK but not spectacular. Krober ignition. The second engine I buought was said to be a VanVeen. I hinestly don't know but it hd much larger fins on the head an barrel and went an awful lot faster. Is there anybody out there who can shed a bit of light on this bike?

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I did a thorough search in my archive, but no hits. Closest one were a Broekhoven Kreidler.

Ton, do you have an idea of this bikes origin ?



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#336 Hoofhearted

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 06:47

Thanks for your efforts. I've always been curious. It was a very well designed and constructed machine. One thing that stuck in my mind was the swing arm was made with oval tubing. Fabulous 4 LS on the front and with that bike I won the 1979 Irish national 50cc championship. I shouldn't have as I am way to big but it was a small bike with a big heart. I'll post this while I'm here. Another(and final) shot of the Isla of Man Jurby meeting. Robert Dunlop and Don Carlisle (seated on the bikes) with my Kreidler peeping in between. They were, at the time, probably the two fastest 50 racers in Ireland.

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#337 Herr Wankel

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 09:39

Originally posted by Hoofhearted
Thanks for your efforts. I've always been curious. It was a very well designed and constructed machine. One thing that stuck in my mind was the swing arm was made with oval tubing. Fabulous 4 LS on the front and with that bike I won the 1979 Irish national 50cc championship. I shouldn't have as I am way to big but it was a small bike with a big heart. I'll post this while I'm here. Another(and final) shot of the Isla of Man Jurby meeting. Robert Dunlop and Don Carlisle (seated on the bikes) with my Kreidler peeping in between. They were, at the time, probably the two fastest 50 racers in Ireland.

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Hi H,Brilliant pics
We must have tripped over each other at some time.I did Cruagh hillclimb in 81/82 and some Mondello,and the 1st Killalane,although I had moved away from the tiddlers then (too fat).Was with the likes of Emmett Nolan,Jack Fahy,Fred O'Callghan,David Hickie,Paddy Smyth et al.Sorry about the photo quality.Saw young Robert (Microbe) in his early days on a 125.Boy was he quick.
ATB HW
By the way 50+ are you Mr M.S.
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#338 50cc racer

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 19:02

Originally posted by exclubracer
I seem to remember a K-I Carlson racing a Saab powered sidecar outfit in the '70s, is it the same guy? Swedish, I think. :confused:


Göran Kähler on Kurt Ivan Carlsson:

Kurt- Ivan is for sure a Swede but him beeing a works rider for Monark 50cc in 1972 has not been riding a Saab sidecar to my knowledge.
He is most famous as a very fast rider on 350cc AJS and later Yamahas.
I think I remember him beeing third once in a Worldchampionshiprace with his fast Yamaha.

Kurt-Ivan found the many engine break- downs tiresome, and left the Monark- team at the end of the 72 season.
Dutchman Jan Bruins replaced him for the 73 season:

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#339 HEMEYLA

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 20:24

Originally posted by 50cc racer


I did a thorough search in my archive, but no hits. Closest one were a Broekhoven Kreidler.

Ton, do you have an idea of this bikes origin ?



50cc racer


Hi there, a lot of frame- and woodenshoe builders in the Netherlands in that golden age.

This frame could be build bij Theo Meurs, i'm not sure now.

Anders, did you see the brake pedal on the "wrong side". :lol:

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#340 50cc racer

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Posted 05 June 2008 - 21:02

"Brake on the wrong side"
Yes, I was immediatly taken back to 1978 when I was apprentice in a motorcycledealership, and for the first time rode an English bike. A big heavy Norton Commando 850 with zero miles on the clock, and as an avid 50cc motocrosser not really used to front brakes! That red brick- wall coming at me fast, and no rear brake under my right foot!
Well, I´m still here, so I did manage to use the front anchor eventually - close shave that one.

Didn´t the early Japanese racebikes have modular shift/ brake pedals?



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#341 Hoofhearted

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Posted 06 June 2008 - 00:30

I was wondering how long it would take to notice the brake being on the "wrong" side. I bought the bike in England and the english owner had converted the brake and shift to the "right" side. As I was also racing a Norton at the time I didn't have a problem. Glad you didn't hit te wall!. Well, whoever made the frame did a terrific job. It was a sweet handling machine with no vices or surprises. In five years of racing it I only dropped it twice. Both times the cause was my own stupidity.

Herr Wankel, We must have crossed paths. I did Cruagh on my Norton a few times but I returned to California the year Kilalane was first run. I knew all the people you named and was particularly fond of Fred, God rest his soul. Those photos were of Robert in his really early days. Pre 125. And he was incredibly fast then too. I don't think he was ever slow. Found this. You might remember Faugheen. This was taken during practice in 1976 (I think). It was a Garelli with a Minerelli barrel grafted on. Quite quick but had a tendency to eat big ends *not surprisingly). The rider in front in the second photo is Bim Collins. I'm not Mr. M.S. I'm Bill anderson.

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#342 Herr Wankel

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Posted 06 June 2008 - 17:55

Originally posted by Hoofhearted
I was wondering how long it would take to notice the brake being on the "wrong" side. I bought the bike in England and the english owner had converted the brake and shift to the "right" side. As I was also racing a Norton at the time I didn't have a problem. Glad you didn't hit te wall!. Well, whoever made the frame did a terrific job. It was a sweet handling machine with no vices or surprises. In five years of racing it I only dropped it twice. Both times the cause was my own stupidity.

Herr Wankel, We must have crossed paths. I did Cruagh on my Norton a few times but I returned to California the year Kilalane was first run. I knew all the people you named and was particularly fond of Fred, God rest his soul. Those photos were of Robert in his really early days. Pre 125. And he was incredibly fast then too. I don't think he was ever slow. Found this. You might remember Faugheen. This was taken during practice in 1976 (I think). It was a Garelli with a Minerelli barrel grafted on. Quite quick but had a tendency to eat big ends *not surprisingly). The rider in front in the second photo is Bim Collins. I'm not Mr. M.S. I'm Bill anderson.

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#343 Herr Wankel

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Posted 06 June 2008 - 17:57

Sorry about that guys .I jumped the Start! 10 second penalty



Hi Guys,
Check out item 170223611669 on French Ebay.
Bill, I will try to PM you sometime soon
A few Meurs Kreidlers in the UK I seem to remember
ATB HW

#344 T54

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Posted 06 June 2008 - 18:53

Nice disc-valve SCRAB sold by its former racer... price in Yurros is not high enough for him yet however. I don't blame him for asking more. :)

#345 50cc racer

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 20:28

Where, when, and who ? - ( I know who #1 is :up: ).


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#346 ex Rhodie racer

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 22:47

Originally posted by barrykm

...So elegant...! :up:

My thought exactly. :up:

#347 T54

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Posted 09 June 2008 - 23:20

Didn´t the early Japanese racebikes have modular shift/ brake pedals?


Both Honda and Suzuki racers had their shifter shafts running through the blocks on both sides. It allowed for riders from different countries to set the shifter and brake in the manner they were accustomed. Made sense and was easy to do.

#348 Hoofhearted

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 04:14

Originally posted by 50cc racer
Where, when, and who ? - ( I know who #1 is :up: ).


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Is there anyway the quality of this most interesting photo can be improved?



50cc racer



#349 PilotesdeLegende

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 08:25

Originally posted by Hoofhearted


Looks like Barry Sheene on the left walking away ?
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#350 Gordon Jones

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Posted 10 June 2008 - 13:22

Originally posted by innesmorton
[B]Hi
I'm still pretty new around here, sorry if this is completely off topic, but re: the MBA / Morbidelli 125, Len Carr raced one in late 70s. I remember mainly going to watch at Mallory and Snetterton where he raced aginst John Kernan plus others, obviously.......

Hi - first post here - I just had to join to make a comment or two here...
I can remember (vaguely - it's a long time ago) racing against Len Carr now & then - John Kernan was a regular at Darley Moor around 1977 / '78 ? - I spent a whole season trying to beat him at Darley - never did - and ended up 2nd in the club Champ'ship.
I spent a year or two cursing those Morbidelli machines (only because I couldn't afford one) - and then the MT125 came out - they were only available to dealer sponsored riders in the "series" - they were almost a match for some of the Morb's around at the time too - with a good rider on board - in time the Honda's took over 125 racing almost entirely - take a look at the link here:
http://www.oliversmo...6...5cc - Final
I have a few pictures of that meeting someplace (I'll take a look when I can)
Here's one..
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If I remember right - I did Darley the following year and had the 2nd place - did just one international meeting at Donington - where I got totally "blown off" (and disillusioned) by a field of Morb's, Honda's, probably the odd Van Dongen Yam - and the odd very quick Maico - I then sold the bike at the end of that year - should have kept it...(Oh how I wish I still had that bike)
Anyone know where it is - let me know :wave:

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Now I always thought (and was told by an "expert" ahem!!) that this was the Benga Johannsen that partnered the late great Jock Taylor for several years in the sidecar.

Your expert was correct - not sure how it came about - but I think Jock was stuck for a passenger at one meeting - and Benga got on with him - the rest as they say..
Anyone looking for a (rusty) Pilot for any of those lovely looking bikes elsewhere - (Morb's considered) - I still only weigh 8.5 st - I think that works out at about 120 lbs for anyone that doesn't understand our method of weighing people :lol: :lol: