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EPAS keeps you on the straight and narrow


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#1 Greg Locock

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 08:52

Does anybody know of a public source for a very funny video of a BMW SUV rally car recovering from a roll using (possibly) EPAS and almost certainly VDC?

The car is about 70 degrees into a roll and pulls itself out, rolls the other way, up nto two wheels, pulls itslef out, and then charges through some spectators.

I only have the file from work, if it is on you tube or whatever it is well worth a look.

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#2 benrapp

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 10:16



#3 benrapp

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 10:22

Worthy but basic (and very dull) video explaining how some of the relevant systems work: http://www.youtube.c...sn9u9dKI64&NR=1

#4 Engineguy

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 20:05

Does the BMW system take over steering? If not, I'd credit Chitwoodian skills with the save... the steering inputs were, whether by skill or luck, appropriate at the appropriate times. Of course there is the possibility that even with the appropriate steering inputs he would have rolled without the added benefit of some electronic throttle/brake intervention.

#5 Todd

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Posted 17 January 2008 - 21:57

that still didn't look like a very fast line through the corner.

#6 imaginesix

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Posted 18 January 2008 - 01:35

Wow, it even anticipated the idiot spectator and the cliff edge and steered the van safely around them both. Great stuff that EPAS.

#7 murpia

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Posted 18 January 2008 - 12:59

If that's a Dakar T1 or T2 class X5, it probably won't have any active systems on it. Just plain luck or skill...

Regards, Ian

#8 crono33

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Posted 18 January 2008 - 16:34

having watched a works dakar X5 from close distance, i'd say very little is left of the original car...

#9 Greg Locock

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Posted 18 January 2008 - 23:19

Well it was included in a briefing on EPAS, so either it was included just for laughs, or it has EPAS. It might well have been a joke.

#10 Catalina Park

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Posted 19 January 2008 - 01:21

I had a drive of a M5? BMW at Eastern Creek a few years back and the damn thing kept getting confused when there was too much going on at once. :
We (me and the car) kept having disagreements over which way we should go. I wanted to turn left and it was still trying to turn right and brake. The compromise was to go straight ahead. :eek:
Apart from one set of corners it was great on the rest of the track.

#11 Greg Locock

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Posted 19 January 2008 - 19:39

How did they have the steering set up? On the Territory the VDC uses the steering wheel as a 'that's the way I want to go' device, instead of a 'that's the way I want the steered wheels to point' controller, which is what a normal steering system does of course. So when you've got lots of slip you just keep the top of the steering wheel pointed at the apex and then the exit. and then you trust the calibrators....

#12 saudoso

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Posted 19 January 2008 - 20:14

I had a rough time with a not so fancy Mercedes A Class trying to tell me where to go when driving down the hill at a dirt road. It could have helped my wife, who knows, but got me really messed up fighting the car. And I was damn slow and carefull...

#13 Catalina Park

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 07:13

Originally posted by Greg Locock
How did they have the steering set up? On the Territory the VDC uses the steering wheel as a 'that's the way I want to go' device, instead of a 'that's the way I want the steered wheels to point' controller, which is what a normal steering system does of course. So when you've got lots of slip you just keep the top of the steering wheel pointed at the apex and then the exit. and then you trust the calibrators....

I don't know how it was set up but it seemed the although the front wheels were pointed the way I wanted to go (left) the brakes were pulling the car to the right.

#14 Greg Locock

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 11:23

Them bastard laws of physics.

Without going through the logic (frankly because it is hidden deep inside proprietary code), first priority is keep the pointy end at the pointy end. If that means you slip sideways, so be it.

#15 Engineguy

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 21:00

Originally posted by Greg Locock
Them bastard laws of physics.
Without going through the logic (frankly because it is hidden deep inside proprietary code), first priority is keep the pointy end at the pointy end. If that means you slip sideways, so be it.

Unless the cliff detectors, the phone pole detectors, or guardrail detectors overide, in which case the retro-rockets are deployed.

The scarey thing is that these systems are going to be mandantory. Is every manufacturer, on every model, going to get it right... to do more good than harm? On any surface in any weather condition? With worn shocks or aftermarket tires or brake pads? The trial lawyers are having orgasms. Every un-prevented accident is going to result in the manufacturer (deep pockets) being dragged into court... either to defend against the charge they failed to prevent it, or that the electronics made the situation worse or even caused it. Reminds me of Lilly. Make a drug to help depressed and homicidal/suicidal people... when some of those people commit homicide or sucide, sue the pants off the manufacturer for causing homicide/suicide). Idiots.

#16 Greg Locock

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 22:00

Yes, same with driverless trains. We'll accept a certain accident rate due to human error, but if an automatic train crashes then it is the end of the world for that company.

#17 saudoso

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Posted 20 January 2008 - 22:17

Originally posted by Greg Locock
Yes, same with driverless trains. We'll accept a certain accident rate due to human error, but if an automatic train crashes then it is the end of the world for that company.


You can't get $10.000.000 from a train operator that did something silly. You can try to have the company liable, but that's not sure you will get something. On the other hand, it's crystal clear who is going to pay the bill if an automated train fails.

No one really cares who failed. Just if there is soemeone to be sued.

#18 crono33

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Posted 21 January 2008 - 11:30

i test drove a ford focus ST, the one with the 2.5lt turbocharged engine

when braking really hard with the ESP on, the car weaves in a very worrying way. with ESP off it brakes straight as it should..