Jump to content


Photo

ChampCar: Cotman out - Larry, Moe & Curly in


  • Please log in to reply
202 replies to this topic

#1 aportinga

aportinga
  • Member

  • 7,793 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 18 January 2008 - 20:45

Champ Car's Executive VP & Race Director, Tony Cotman has decided to step down. A search for a replacement has begun. He has agreed to remain in his position for the time being to work on the transition and help Champ Car identify a replacement. No word yet on what Cotman will do.



Big loss - probably stood up to the village idiots too often.

-----------------------

:rolleyes:

http://www.champcar....le.asp?ID=12477

April 20 Toyota Grand Prix of Long Beach, Long Beach, California
5:00 – 7:30 p.m. – ESPN2 – Same-day tape

April 27 Grand Prix of Houston at JAGFlo Speedway, Houston, Texas
10:00 p.m. – Midnight – ESPN2 – Same-day tape

May 18 Champ Car Grand Prix at Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca, Monterey, California
4:00 – 6:00 p.m. – ESPN - LIVE

June 1 Champ Car World Series Belgium at Circuit Zolder, Zolder, Belgium
3:00 – 4:00 p.m. – ABC – Same-day tape (Just 1 hour of highlights)

June 8 Champ Car World Series Spain at Circuito Permanente de Jerez, Jerez, Spain
4:00 – 5:00 p.m. – ABC – Same-day tape (Just 1 hour of highlights)

June 22 Champ Car Grand Prix of Cleveland, Cleveland, Ohio
3:30 – 4:30 p.m. – ABC – Same-day tape (Just 1 hour of highlights)

June 29 Champ Car Mont-Tremblant, Mont-Tremblant, Quebec, Canada
1:00 – 3:00 p.m. – ESPN - LIVE

July 6 Champ Car Grand Prix of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada
2:00 – 4:00 p.m. – ESPN - LIVE

July 20 Rexall Grand Prix of Edmonton, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
3:00 – 5:00 p.m. – ESPN - LIVE

July 27 Champ Car Grand Prix of Portland, Portland, Oregon
10:00 p.m. – Midnight – ESPN2 – Same-day tape

August 10 Champ Car Grand Prix at Road America, Elkhart Lake, Wisconsin
5:00 – 6:00 p.m. – ABC – Same-day tape (Just 1 hour of highlights)

September 14 Champ Car World Series Holland at the TT Circuit Assen, Assen, Holland
10:00 p.m. – Midnight – ESPN2 – Same-day tape

October 26 Gold Coast Indy 300, Surfers Paradise, Australia
11:00 p.m. – 1:00 a.m. – ESPN2 – Same-day tape

November 9 Gran Premio de Mexico, Mexico City, Mexico
3:00 – 5:00 p.m. ESPN2 - LIVE

--------------------------------------------

Also around and about.... Atlantic Champ Matos is considering turning down a $2 mill check to take with him into ChampCar for a ride in the IRL farm system IPS :eek:

Walker Racing may either be down to 1 car or gone for good.

Paul Newman never announced his retirement from the sport on/around Christmas.... However his status overall has not changed so we may just see that one fade away and hope McDonalds does not go with it.

Ho - Hum :down:

Advertisement

#2 qwazy

qwazy
  • Member

  • 288 posts
  • Joined: March 06

Posted 18 January 2008 - 20:58

Please let this be the dagger that puts Champ Car away. I prefer Champ Car over IRL but it's simply a case of someone's gotta' go.

#3 aportinga

aportinga
  • Member

  • 7,793 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 18 January 2008 - 22:06

Agreed....

#4 nissan_gtp

nissan_gtp
  • Member

  • 121 posts
  • Joined: August 05

Posted 19 January 2008 - 00:28

yep, time for Champ Car to die (and I too am a CC supporter)


Robin Miller's latest lays it all out -- read it here

#5 whitewaterMkII

whitewaterMkII
  • Member

  • 5,307 posts
  • Joined: November 05

Posted 19 January 2008 - 00:40

Actually, it's not fine with me if CCWS goes under. I've never missed a Long Beach Grand Prix race, if they go, I'll never attend a USOW race again.
I will never, under any circumstances whatsoever, put the most worn out penny that could be found in FTG's pocket, or anyone that has anything to do with the most destructive person to ever be involved in USOW racing.

#6 wsshores

wsshores
  • Member

  • 33 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 19 January 2008 - 00:54

I agree that they should fold up the tent. I doubt anybody would notice. As a former big-time CART fan, it's sad to see the once-great series reduced to what it is.

#7 917k

917k
  • Member

  • 2,573 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 19 January 2008 - 04:05

Originally posted by whitewaterMkII
Actually, it's not fine with me if CCWS goes under. I've never missed a Long Beach Grand Prix race, if they go, I'll never attend a USOW race again.
I will never, under any circumstances whatsoever, put the most worn out penny that could be found in FTG's pocket, or anyone that has anything to do with the most destructive person to ever be involved in USOW racing.



CART had something going for it, but CC has spent hundreds of millions to ''spite'' TG. Infantile and ridiculous.

People just need to get over something that happened 13 years ago. If not, realize there are, like, 6 of you die-hard haters left.

#8 whitewaterMkII

whitewaterMkII
  • Member

  • 5,307 posts
  • Joined: November 05

Posted 19 January 2008 - 04:56

Originally posted by 917k



CART had something going for it, but CC has spent hundreds of millions to ''spite'' TG. Infantile and ridiculous.

People just need to get over something that happened 13 years ago. If not, realize there are, like, 6 of you die-hard haters left.


Not funding the irl makes me a hater?
The demise of USOW racing is undoubtably, irrevocably attributable to FTG's actions, and his actions only.
Even if CCWS were to die tomorrow, it would solve nothing.
USOW racing will never get to where it was in 1994. I don't hate the guy, I just think he is selfish, stupid asshole that inherited a great race track, and then ****ed up some great racing because he thought he knew better than anyone else what was good for USOW.
The indisputable fact is that he didn't, and still doesn't. The i500 is now host to a bunch of spec racers.
Anyway, if I go to the LBGP and there are only 5 others there, I'll be astounded, particularly since my buds and I have had the same block of 10 seats there for about 15 years now and AFAIK all ten of us will be there all three days.
Oh, and now we'll be at Laguna Seca as well.

#9 Pikachu Racing

Pikachu Racing
  • Member

  • 5,466 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 19 January 2008 - 05:44

When you have Dan Clarke looking for Panther Racing ride things aren't looking good big time.

#10 StickShift

StickShift
  • Member

  • 5,386 posts
  • Joined: September 01

Posted 19 January 2008 - 07:08

It's like poking it with a stick.

#11 jonpollak

jonpollak
  • Member

  • 13,211 posts
  • Joined: March 00

Posted 19 January 2008 - 11:54

Yep.. Turn out the lights the party's over
Mindy has won.
Jp

#12 Bumper

Bumper
  • RC Forum Host

  • 1,966 posts
  • Joined: August 02

Posted 19 January 2008 - 12:23

Yeah, switch off the life support already.

The longer they wait, the easier it will be for the IRL to pick and mix the leftovers and things will take its natural course.

When even Paul Tracy, CC's staunchest supporter, has a few little talks with Tony George about a possible future in IRL (which he did end of last year), you just know the end is near.

As a CC fan I never thought I would say this but I hope most CC teams will see sense and switch their efforts to IRL this year. If so, now is the time to do it, before the season starts so they can get some sponsorship together and give their staff some much needed stability.

#13 Dudley

Dudley
  • Member

  • 9,245 posts
  • Joined: March 00

Posted 19 January 2008 - 13:15

The article says only 3 drivers are confirmed.

Who are they?

I'm assuming G.Rahal is one.

#14 AdrianM

AdrianM
  • Member

  • 4,854 posts
  • Joined: September 01

Posted 19 January 2008 - 13:24

Originally posted by Dudley
The article says only 3 drivers are confirmed.

Who are they?

I'm assuming G.Rahal is one.


Servia and Tracy

#15 xflow7

xflow7
  • Member

  • 3,038 posts
  • Joined: October 02

Posted 19 January 2008 - 13:37

Cotman's a big loss. And in true recent Champ Car fashion, a major series principal leaves and there's not a breath of it on the series website.

As faithful as I've been for as long as I've been, it's all just getting old.

#16 fer312t

fer312t
  • Member

  • 789 posts
  • Joined: September 01

Posted 20 January 2008 - 07:13

Graham Rahal better set his sites on GP2...and do it quick...

ChampCar is lost...and the IRL is a dead zone...

#17 Dmitriy_Guller

Dmitriy_Guller
  • Member

  • 4,032 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 20 January 2008 - 08:21

Turn off the life support already and stop torturing the family. :( :cry:

#18 F1Champion

F1Champion
  • Member

  • 2,922 posts
  • Joined: September 01

Posted 20 January 2008 - 09:47

Assuming ChampCar disappears, what happens then? Indycar takes over all the circuits and moves away from ovals back to tracks?

I mean there's no point of ChampCar disappearing if Indycar doesn't do this because track racing will always be more exciting than oval racing in my opinion.

#19 Sith

Sith
  • Member

  • 1,306 posts
  • Joined: October 02

Posted 20 January 2008 - 09:48

Originally posted by whitewaterMkII


Not funding the irl makes me a hater?
The demise of USOW racing is undoubtably, irrevocably attributable to FTG's actions, and his actions only.
Even if CCWS were to die tomorrow, it would solve nothing.
USOW racing will never get to where it was in 1994. I don't hate the guy, I just think he is selfish, stupid asshole that inherited a great race track, and then ****ed up some great racing because he thought he knew better than anyone else what was good for USOW.
The indisputable fact is that he didn't, and still doesn't. The i500 is now host to a bunch of spec racers.
Anyway, if I go to the LBGP and there are only 5 others there, I'll be astounded, particularly since my buds and I have had the same block of 10 seats there for about 15 years now and AFAIK all ten of us will be there all three days.
Oh, and now we'll be at Laguna Seca as well.


Great post! :up: Good to hear from somebody stateside who's pointed out the real problem that is Tony George! IRL aint gonna do jack in the absence of Champcar! Events like Long beach would prosper much more if NASCAR were to have a race there! There's no turning back the clock now that the supposedly war has been won! Tony George created this mess, his joke of a series will get there dose soon enough....

Advertisement

#20 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 57,092 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 20 January 2008 - 10:40

I think USOW would have sunk on it's own, but more gradually, even if there was never a split.

#21 wj_gibson

wj_gibson
  • Member

  • 2,130 posts
  • Joined: January 05

Posted 20 January 2008 - 12:06

I think Champ Car will be lucky to see out this coming season without folding halfway through. And then, with the IRL standing as the lone open wheel series in the US, the situation will be something like what it was in about 1965, with a single blue riband event (the Indy 500).

#22 aportinga

aportinga
  • Member

  • 7,793 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 20 January 2008 - 14:34

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
I think USOW would have sunk on it's own, but more gradually, even if there was never a split.


Yup... All this shit started when CART decided they wanted to be F1 and as a result a multitude of people/organizations were neglected - including themselves when they let Penske **** with the rule book.

#23 WildmouseX

WildmouseX
  • Member

  • 2,654 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 20 January 2008 - 16:24

Originally posted by F1Champion
Assuming ChampCar disappears, what happens then? Indycar takes over all the circuits and moves away from ovals back to tracks?

I mean there's no point of ChampCar disappearing if Indycar doesn't do this because track racing will always be more exciting than oval racing in my opinion.


i think if anything, the split has tought us that does not work... just because it's your opinion that circut racing is better then ovals, doesn't make it reality. the reality is, that there is as many people that enjoy racing on ovals, as there are on road courses (and guys like me who enjoy both).

to heal american open wheel racing it's going to take the IRL absorbing all of champcars races while keeping all the ones they currently run - and split their season with half ovals and half road courses. - 13-15 races a year isn't enough to draw a big enough fan base in america for them to get a stable t.v. audience - but as nascar has shown, racing 30+ events nearly every week; does. they need all the races from both series to grow the sport back to where it was.

#24 whitewaterMkII

whitewaterMkII
  • Member

  • 5,307 posts
  • Joined: November 05

Posted 20 January 2008 - 17:02

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
I think USOW would have sunk on it's own, but more gradually, even if there was never a split.


When the split occurred there were (IIRC) four manufacturers, Toyota,Honda,Ford and Mercedes involved and at least three chassis Swift,Lola,Reynard, more at Indy; Eagle,Menard-Buick and Chevys. There were over a hundred entries every year at Indy, now they are lucky if they fill the field. No doubt there were issues, chief amongst them the rise of NASCAR, but CART was at a level of racing in Formula cars that was indisputably the 2nd tier in the world, with no one threatening that position. While USOW racing may have been in a slight decline, they were not in a precipitous slide into obscurity, which is where they are now.

IMO, before the split even happened, IMS gave a race to NASCAR, which was the first step in USOWs painful and unecessary descent into confusion and irrelevance, from there it's only gotten worse year in year out. Again, completely initiated by one fool,FTG, who was born into a position of power that he was never qualified by any measure to wield, and has not shown even now 13 years later that he and his minions have learned a thing.

#25 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 57,092 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 20 January 2008 - 17:17

What I find interesting looking at old races, and I mean Mansell era and previously, was that it was mainly Ford teams v Chevy teams with the occasional Alfa or similar. I don't think that can be underestimated at all.

Look at the Indy500 entry lists at their biggest in the last 20 years and it was mainly American engines.

There have been massive cultural changes too. We don't reward innovation, we don't praise variety. We want dumbed down. Ergo NASCAR.

#26 Pikachu Racing

Pikachu Racing
  • Member

  • 5,466 posts
  • Joined: December 00

Posted 20 January 2008 - 17:36

How could this be Tony George fault for the clusterfuck CC management? Did Tony send in a spy and help accerlerate demise of already damage bankrupt series? :rolleyes:

#27 ColdHeart

ColdHeart
  • Member

  • 1,255 posts
  • Joined: October 02

Posted 20 January 2008 - 17:58

Originally posted by whitewaterMkII


When the split occurred there were (IIRC) four manufacturers, Toyota,Honda,Ford and Mercedes involved and at least three chassis Swift,Lola,Reynard, more at Indy; Eagle,Menard-Buick and Chevys. There were over a hundred entries every year at Indy, now they are lucky if they fill the field.


That's not true. Back in the "good old days," teams would routinely enter vapor cars that didn't exist to get more. There were maybe 42-45 actual cars that made attempts, more than today but a far cry from over a hundred.

#28 ColdHeart

ColdHeart
  • Member

  • 1,255 posts
  • Joined: October 02

Posted 20 January 2008 - 18:10

Originally posted by WildmouseX
to heal american open wheel racing it's going to take the IRL absorbing all of champcars races while keeping all the ones they currently run - and split their season with half ovals and half road courses. - 13-15 races a year isn't enough to draw a big enough fan base in america for them to get a stable t.v. audience - but as nascar has shown, racing 30+ events nearly every week; does. they need all the races from both series to grow the sport back to where it was.


A combined series can't take all of the CC races and simply add them to the IRL slate. Costs for the teams would go through the roof and the sponsors would likely not be willing to pay for these extra races.

And it is worth noting that CC currently runs a number of weak events that are only there to fill out the calendar:

Surfers can't afford the $6 million it costs to bring in CC and will likely replace them next year with the V8s as headliner regardless of what happens.

The Euro events are in the same situation, the promoters can't afford to pay the transportation costs and the sanction fees.

The temporary street courses are very expensive to set up and almost all are huge losers without title sponsors.

Portland hasn't drawn well in recent years, neither have Houston or Cleveland. Edmonton has no sponsor and the promoter has made comments about heavy losses.

And, on the opposite side of the coin, a number of the IRL's races - Sears Point, Watkins Glen, Homestead, MIlwaukee - have not drawn the crowds they need.

On the plus side of things, it is _possible_ a merged series of some sort might bring in some sponsors and, with them more fans; Ford and Bridgestone have both indicated they would be interested in returning and Honda has made no secret of their wish for competition. And maybe some of the tracks that have given up on open wheel - Fontana, Michigan, Phoenix - might take another shot at this business if/when there is only one series.

It is hard to see how or why CC will continue. The best anyone can hope for is that CC mgmt puts on some kind of abbreviated schedule this year and announces that they will make some sort of deal with the IRL this summer and a new combined series will run beginning in '09.

#29 Locai

Locai
  • Member

  • 1,952 posts
  • Joined: June 01

Posted 20 January 2008 - 21:25

I've been a lifelong ChampCar fan and I really can't stand the IRL. However, it's time for one of the two to go away. Both are hanging on by a thread. Now, Cottman is gone. Matos can't even get a ride with $2mil in his pocket. Nobody (teams, drivers, the series) is making a dime. You've got good drivers having to switch teams FOUR TIMES IN ONE YEAR!!!! Neither series has a clue about marketing or innovation. They are both spec series (and I hate spec racing!)

I just want 1 series. At least then they won't be able to blame all their issues on the other guy. I'd rather it be ChampCar. But, I'd rather it be the IRL before they both go belly-up.

The only thing that ChampCar has going for it right now is the Atlantic Series. They really got that right. It's definitely the best feeder series in North America. It might even be better than GP2 or A1GP. If nothing else, ChampCar should dump the ChampCar series and just run the Atlantics. At least then the costs would be affordable.

#30 Dudley

Dudley
  • Member

  • 9,245 posts
  • Joined: March 00

Posted 20 January 2008 - 22:30

Originally posted by F1Champion
Assuming ChampCar disappears, what happens then? Indycar takes over all the circuits and moves away from ovals back to tracks?

I mean there's no point of ChampCar disappearing if Indycar doesn't do this because track racing will always be more exciting than oval racing in my opinion.


They already have done, the schedule is near half "tracks" now. Indycar is near as damnit CART circa 1995 without the support or chassis/engine diversity.

#31 F1 RusH

F1 RusH
  • Member

  • 91 posts
  • Joined: May 05

Posted 21 January 2008 - 02:20

Another vote here for Champ Car to give it up and stop dragging the carcass of CART through the mud. I`ve been a huge supporter in the past but the PTB have shown how much they care.
KK should have just missed the court date in January of 2004 an let CART die with some dignity.

#32 Dolph

Dolph
  • Member

  • 4,866 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 21 January 2008 - 09:31

Originally posted by Pikachu Racing
When you have Dan Clarke looking for Panther Racing ride things aren't looking good big time.


:lol:

#33 whitewaterMkII

whitewaterMkII
  • Member

  • 5,307 posts
  • Joined: November 05

Posted 21 January 2008 - 12:56

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld


There have been massive cultural changes too. We don't reward innovation, we don't praise variety. We want dumbed down. Ergo NASCAR.


It's a lot simpler than that. NASCAR drivers get paid, irl and CCWS have to pay to drive.
And belive me, in the days of NASCAR's biggest jump it was anything but bland with the likes of Earnhardt and Allison duking it out week in week out.

#34 Ross Stonefeld

Ross Stonefeld
  • Member

  • 57,092 posts
  • Joined: August 99

Posted 21 January 2008 - 14:08

No I mean the market changed. Indycars aren't going to be cool in 2008, and they never would have been.

#35 McGuire

McGuire
  • Member

  • 9,218 posts
  • Joined: October 03

Posted 21 January 2008 - 14:50

Originally posted by wj_gibson
I think Champ Car will be lucky to see out this coming season without folding halfway through. And then, with the IRL standing as the lone open wheel series in the US, the situation will be something like what it was in about 1965, with a single blue riband event (the Indy 500).


Seeing the Indy 500 described as a "blue riband event" I think of good old Gordon Kirby.

#36 Burai

Burai
  • Member

  • 1,004 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 21 January 2008 - 21:29

Here's another long-time Champ Car fan hoping the series dies and soon.

What I've watched these last few seasons was NOT in any way (apart from maybe those wonderful sounding V8 engines) the series I fell in love with. It's been genuinely painful watching the series tear itself apart and hearing Tony George this and Tony George that from ignorant fanboys who want an easy scapegoat.

The Indy 500 isn't the be-all and end-all of US open wheel racing. It's the centrepiece. It's the most historic event. But it's not everything. You think if the Daytona 500 was cancelled that NASCAR wouldn't survive?

The fact of the matter is that when the IRL was formed NOBODY jumped ship save for a few drivers and teams barely worth a damn. Nobody took it seriously. Nobody wanted to touch it with a barge pole. Everyone thought that a couple of seasons with slow, ugly cars and no-name drivers would be enough to put off the audience and send IMS back with it's tail between it's legs. It was only when Champ Car's owners started being incredibly stupid with decisions that pissed off teams, manufacturers and sponsors that people started looking at the IRL's lower costs and taking Tony George seriously.

And that's the key really. IRL is and always was a complete piece of shit run by a complete idiot. Everyone in the industry knows this. But since 2001, It's been far more attractive to sponsors, teams, drivers and manufacturers than Champ Car.

What does that say about Champ Car?

#37 shaggy

shaggy
  • Member

  • 1,661 posts
  • Joined: March 99

Posted 22 January 2008 - 00:23

Take it for what's worth, but in another forum a letter, from Steve Johnson, was published where Tony is reported as having quit due to personal reasons and that he will stay at CC to oversee the transition. Apparently, it had nothing to do with CC's future or lack thereof.

#38 qwazy

qwazy
  • Member

  • 288 posts
  • Joined: March 06

Posted 22 January 2008 - 00:52

I got a question for you guys (perhaps to take the focus off of history lessons and finger pointing); Should CCWS take the dive after this season, would you see the IRL taking on the new Panoz? RM says that the Panoz can house the IRL's Honda engines. And if it did happen, would we see Dallara make a new chassis or have these two vastly differently looking chassis going head-to-head?

#39 Arrows4Ever

Arrows4Ever
  • Member

  • 831 posts
  • Joined: June 03

Posted 22 January 2008 - 00:53

Everyone knows CC runs with an artificial lung already...

Remember what Sir Frank thought of Bourdais calling him up for a test?

Bourdais: "It was said to me that the title Champ Car does not have anymore the same value that a few years ago..."

BTW, also remembered that Bourdais had said on Letterman that F1 was more a business than a sport.
And the CC champ leaves for F1 after all??? Doesn't that say a lot about the future of CC?

Advertisement

#40 kma4444

kma4444
  • New Member

  • 20 posts
  • Joined: July 06

Posted 22 January 2008 - 01:11

Both CC and IRL are both laughably bad series. I wish they both would die and be replaced by one that encourages diversity. It would be a good time to do so as F1 seems to be trying very hard to follow the spec car dimwits.

#41 xflow7

xflow7
  • Member

  • 3,038 posts
  • Joined: October 02

Posted 22 January 2008 - 01:15

Originally posted by shaggy
Take it for what's worth, but in another forum a letter, from Steve Johnson, was published where Tony is reported as having quit due to personal reasons and that he will stay at CC to oversee the transition. Apparently, it had nothing to do with CC's future or lack thereof.


Assuming that is the case, why the hell is it only surfacing as a letter from Johnson posted on some forum rather than on CCWS's own website? There's not even any mention of Cotman leaving on the official site. That's what kills me about the organization these days. They've been burned time and again by not addressing potential PR issues as they arise and the resulting rumor-mongering, yet they never, ever learn.

#42 Locai

Locai
  • Member

  • 1,952 posts
  • Joined: June 01

Posted 22 January 2008 - 02:36

Originally posted by qwazy
I got a question for you guys (perhaps to take the focus off of history lessons and finger pointing); Should CCWS take the dive after this season, would you see the IRL taking on the new Panoz? RM says that the Panoz can house the IRL's Honda engines. And if it did happen, would we see Dallara make a new chassis or have these two vastly differently looking chassis going head-to-head?


I don't know if the IRL engine will fit the CC chassis or not.

Robin Miller reported a month or two ago that cars from both series were testing the road course at Homestead at the same time. It was a "very closed" tire test for Bridgestone/Firestone (no announcement made, no media allowed, no times posted, etc.) I seem to remember that the CC package was rumored to be a couple of seconds faster than the IRL package.

Keep in mind, though, that both engines are 'spec' and both could probably be easily tuned for more power. The CC Cosworth is turbocharged, so they could easily turn up the boost. The IRL wings are ridiculously oversized. Most of the opinions that I've read seem to say that ChampCar has the "better" package.

It would be very interesting, though, to see what a team like Penske could do with both packages if you gave them free-reign to develop them. My guess would be that the CC package would come out on top, but that's just my opinion.

#43 V8 Fireworks

V8 Fireworks
  • Member

  • 5,421 posts
  • Joined: June 06

Posted 22 January 2008 - 05:01

Originally posted by wsshores
I agree that they should fold up the tent. I doubt anybody would notice. As a former big-time CART fan, it's sad to see the once-great series reduced to what it is.


Anyone with weekend crowds of 200,000+ and a field of shiny new cars is not dying.. the WRC is in trouble! Not the CC which to the casual punter, consuming excess alcohol by side of the track, are just as loud, colourful and spectacular as ever! :wave:

#44 Dudley

Dudley
  • Member

  • 9,245 posts
  • Joined: March 00

Posted 22 January 2008 - 09:08

Originally posted by Burai

The Indy 500 isn't the be-all and end-all of US open wheel racing. It's the centrepiece. It's the most historic event. But it's not everything. You think if the Daytona 500 was cancelled that NASCAR wouldn't survive?


Although a better analogy would be that if the Daytona races broke away and formed their own Nascar, let's call it the "Daytona Racing League" would Nascar be in trouble in 13 years?

Probably.

#45 Burai

Burai
  • Member

  • 1,004 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 22 January 2008 - 19:29

Originally posted by Dudley


Although a better analogy would be that if the Daytona races broke away and formed their own Nascar, let's call it the "Daytona Racing League" would Nascar be in trouble in 13 years?

Probably.


Well if you want to put it like that, that would all depend on how well NASCAR treated it's competitors, sponsors and circuit owners once the breakaway happened.

I'm not sure the France family are dumb enough to upset everyone involved in the sport over the space of 4 years as CART did and watch their empire crumble. But you never know!

#46 aportinga

aportinga
  • Member

  • 7,793 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 22 January 2008 - 20:57

Originally posted by shaggy
Take it for what's worth, but in another forum a letter, from Steve Johnson, was published where Tony is reported as having quit due to personal reasons and that he will stay at CC to oversee the transition. Apparently, it had nothing to do with CC's future or lack thereof.


Load of cow shit dude.... Cotman went head to head with GF and KK regarding the need for CCWS to be at Indy.

The fanboys disagreed with this but it made sense because many sponsors were lined up for CCWS in 07 and at the last minute - not knowing a damn thing about the sport asked if this "was the series which runs at the Indy 500?" When told no the sponsors all disapeared.

You see the 500 is the ONLY mainstay with any marketability. CCWS racing there would require chassis but Clarke (Honda) was more then prepared to offer price breaks on engines. Also CCWS had the entire month open so from a scheduleing perspective there was no issue.... With the 500 being the decider CCWS could have joined up easily and TG could have done nothing to stop them from qualifying - no way he's gonna pull another 25/8 rule at that point.

What did KK & GF do? Tell Cotman to shut the **** up and send Steve Johnson off to book Laguna for a May race which would kill any Indy talk altogether.

Shaggy - I partied with 2 folks who work for ChampCar at RA this year. According to them the attitude is horrid and the only glimmer of hope was Cotman period.

Additionally I know 3 other team members who have admitted that they are looking and are prepared to bolt with a reasonable offer. According to them people have held on because they have had hope - much like many of us who work in a department which is run poorly. The only difference is these folks have held on longer because they have a passion for their sport and ChampCar specifically.

That's ou the window now and frankly it didn't take Cotman stepping down to push that... His departure only makes it worse.

#47 Dave Ware

Dave Ware
  • Member

  • 746 posts
  • Joined: March 00

Posted 22 January 2008 - 21:02

My last bit of optimism for Champ Car is now gone. Not just because of Cotman, but of Matos not finding a decent ride with his 2 million, Pagenau not having the funding to follow up on his excellent rookie season, and the lack of any progress by KK and company. They needed to make the series marketable, to find sponsors, and they failed to do so. I'm glad they tried, but the party is over.

At least I have a bunch of old races on VHS!

Dave

#48 whitewaterMkII

whitewaterMkII
  • Member

  • 5,307 posts
  • Joined: November 05

Posted 22 January 2008 - 21:09

Originally posted by aportinga

You see the 500 is the ONLY mainstay with any marketability.


At a now very much reduced rate...
About the only one that thinks that the 500 has marketability is ABC, and even they are wondering whether it's worth the going price, now that it is the second rate race at IMS.
I'm wondering how long Honda is going to fund TG's folly, IIRC their contract is up in 2009 and it's long been Robert Clakes contention that without any competition, they will be gone as well.
It sure would be hilarious if FTG ends up hat in hand to KK et al for Cosworth engines in another year.

#49 aportinga

aportinga
  • Member

  • 7,793 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 22 January 2008 - 21:58

Originally posted by Dave Ware
My last bit of optimism for Champ Car is now gone. Not just because of Cotman, but of Matos not finding a decent ride with his 2 million,

Dave


No - Matos does not take the $2mill it goes to the Atlantics runner up. Now that says a good deal!!!

The guy (Matos) was looking for a 2 year contract - and was turned down everywhere. Any CC team just wants the $2mill and would probably run him half a season and then terminate his service at that point - regardless of how good he is.

#50 aportinga

aportinga
  • Member

  • 7,793 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 22 January 2008 - 22:00

Originally posted by whitewaterMkII


At a now very much reduced rate...
About the only one that thinks that the 500 has marketability is ABC, and even they are wondering whether it's worth the going price, now that it is the second rate race at IMS.
I'm wondering how long Honda is going to fund TG's folly, IIRC their contract is up in 2009 and it's long been Robert Clakes contention that without any competition, they will be gone as well.
It sure would be hilarious if FTG ends up hat in hand to KK et al for Cosworth engines in another year.


Honda contract is up in 2009 from what I can recall.

However TG has enough cash - and has proven in the past that he's willing to spend it, to get spec engines from anywhere.