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Peter Windsor's role on F1 Racing Magazine


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#51 DaleCooper

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 20:45

Originally posted by Suntrek


Yes, I'm sorry, you must have dreamed it up. :kiss:

I recall ONE article on Alonso in 2005, none in 2006 except for the driving style theories bit.

He wasn't even on the cover when he'd won the WDC for the first time. Instead they had the McLaren of Kimi and headline was "why didn't Kimi win?" He was hardly mentioned inside the mag as well. Same goes for the 2006 WDC, MS retirement was obviously much more important.

Most race reviews (all of which were - and still are - written by PW) mentioned him as little as possible (to ignore him completely would have been difficult though, even for PW)

I especially recall the review of Japan 05 where Alonso's overtaking of MS was referred to as "Alonso overtook Schumacher in 130R". Period. At the same time Kimi's overtaking of Fisi was described in the most poetic way: "Finnish knife cutting through delicate Italian salami" or something like that. :lol:

Now, my objective is not to take anything away from either MS nor Kimi, but the Alonso worship you mention at least my issues have been totally devoid of.

I get your point regarding his driving style theories, at least he tries. Problem is that he overdoes it, now he can't even mention a driver without referring to some driving style mumbo-jumbo. A heap of words that sounds impressive, but doesn't really mean much.

I still buy it though. Partly because it's the only F1 magazine available in Sweden unless you go to international press shops. And there can - sometimes - be other articles worth reading. :)



I was referring to the stuff Windsor wrote in those 2 years, not the overall tone of the magazine. Particularly I remember his race reports which really intimated a lot of affection for Alonso's ability. I really think that Windsor likes to pick favourites, sort of like a benchmark driver, and compare every other driver to them. It seems he has decided that Lewis will be the benchmark going forward and so colours every driver assessment with comparisons to him. That offends most fans of other drivers. But realistically, that is what many fans do themselves, so in that sense he just comes across as the average fan. Some of his analysis is pretty good though, that I think is the saving grace for me, even though he isn't particularly consistent.

It would be nice if he, Brundle, and some F1 engineer had a sit down session and they expanded on and critiqued his conclusions.

Cooper

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#52 big x

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 21:36

Originally posted by Suntrek


Yes, I'm sorry, you must have dreamed it up. :kiss:

I recall ONE article on Alonso in 2005, none in 2006 except for the driving style theories bit.

He wasn't even on the cover when he'd won the WDC for the first time. Instead they had the McLaren of Kimi and headline was "why didn't Kimi win?" He was hardly mentioned inside the mag as well. Same goes for the 2006 WDC, MS retirement was obviously much more important.

Most race reviews (all of which were - and still are - written by PW) mentioned him as little as possible (to ignore him completely would have been difficult though, even for PW)

I especially recall the review of Japan 05 where Alonso's overtaking of MS was referred to as "Alonso overtook Schumacher in 130R". Period. At the same time Kimi's overtaking of Fisi was described in the most poetic way: "Finnish knife cutting through delicate Italian salami" or something like that. :lol:

Now, my objective is not to take anything away from either MS nor Kimi, but the Alonso worship you mention at least my issues have been totally devoid of.

I get your point regarding his driving style theories, at least he tries. Problem is that he overdoes it, now he can't even mention a driver without referring to some driving style mumbo-jumbo. A heap of words that sounds impressive, but doesn't really mean much.

I still buy it though. Partly because it's the only F1 magazine available in Sweden unless you go to international press shops. And there can - sometimes - be other articles worth reading. :)


Your wrong...

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adam

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#53 Imperial

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 22:16

Originally posted by DaleCooper


You mean the same Peter Windsor who worshipped Alonso only 2 years ago??


I think you'll find, if you read all of the specialist motorsport press, that Peter Windsor is very far from being the only motorsport journalist whose opinion of Fernando Alonso has changed from what it once was.

#54 Imperial

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 22:21

For what it's worth, something in my memory banks recalls to me that Peter Windsor may (If I'm remembering correctly) have made an attempt long ago to set up an F1 team with a partner.

#55 jumperjarier

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Posted 31 January 2008 - 22:26

Originally posted by Imperial
For what it's worth, something in my memory banks recalls to me that Peter Windsor may (If I'm remembering correctly) have made an attempt long ago to set up an F1 team with a partner.


Brabham

#56 wrighty

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 00:01

Originally posted by Owen
I like F1 Racing magazine. Along with Autosport, they are good reads.
As far as Windsor goes, he's quite opinionated (seems a huge fan of both Schu and Hamilton), but that makes life more interesting. There's no obligation to agree with him. He is only one contributor to F1 Racing magazine.


what he said.... i buy both and i enjoy both.....f1racings good for an 'overview' to F1, and Autosport is the up-to-date news, on the site then in the maggo......sounds licky but suits me :up:

#57 Suntrek

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 02:09

Originally posted by big x


Your wrong...

adam

Posted Image


Couldn't resist keeping your last pic, it's kinda cute. :)

The issue I was referring to is the fourth pic on your list, an article solely about Alonso. The only one as far as 2005 & 2006 goes. There was one also in 2004, it's the second cover pic.

The other ones are for sure also about Alonso, but not in the sense I meant. It would have been kind of hard to omit him when discussing the outcome of the 2006 WDC and when he was voted man of the year, don't you think?

Anyways, nice covers and thanks for finding them! :up:

#58 Stibbles

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 02:22

Originally posted by kar
Matt Bishop - former editor on F1 racing - is the chap that got brought in to manage the debacle that is McLaren's PR.

Windsor is just another hack albeit one that used to work for Williams or something.

As for his discussion/dissection of driving styles I think he's not much more qualified than us really. He uses phrases like 'slow second phase turn in' which, frankly, is nonsensical.


Of course - And how would you disect a corner?

#59 Rubens Hakkamacher

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 02:42

I don't get this new phenomenon these days, where not only is it "bad" to have an opinion, it's almost like something one should be arrested for?

But the Alonso fest anti-Windsor thing here is just ridiculous. I'm not going to needlessly retread his overly ample credentials, but I'm going to say this:

Windsor has most likely watched, in person, an order of magnitude more F1 races than anyone here.

I've watched a lot of races on tv, a whole lot. I know I can see things non-F1 fans can't see.

I also know, at the few F1 races I've been to, I could see so much more there at the track.

A whole lot more, as in it was maybe easier to tell which teammate was which by watching their braking point, hearing their revs up to that point, listening to them downshift, watching their hands, the minute little squiggles of the tire you can't see on t.v. (thanks to no HD!!!) - or any of the other little visual/audio cues that don't translate to t.v.

Windsor has been watching that way for nearly as long as I've been alive. I know he'd notice something I wouldn't catch on t.v. - and I'd think that goes for a good many people here.

But the great thing about him is that he doesn't seem jaded by his history in F1 at all, and is obviously ebullient and still excited about being in F1 - which is what *I* want to see. Yeah, the Speed guys get excited and aren't as dryly "professional" as some other broadcasters - but that's NOT what I want to see, either!

Isn't it boring to have to hear Yet Another Studied Professional Newscaster? Windsor gets excited, has an opinion; that's better than "droll and neutral" IMO.

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#60 travbrad

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 06:03

^ :)

Just want to say I agree completely. I'm sure he knows more than pretty much everyone on these boards about F1. I think it's nice to see someone that actually has an opinion on something, instead of just reading out PR drivel the teams give (which is largely BS). I love the speed coverage too, they aren't afraid to joke around and HAVE FUN, but they are also fairly knowledgeable. It's good hearing commentators who don't take things too seriously and can enjoy the sport. That's what it should be about, at least as far as the fans are concerned. I don't want to hear from someone who doesn't have an opinion on things, I think any true fan of F1 has their opinions, and shouldn't be afraid to share them.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Windsor is an amazing journalist, but he does have a lot of experience, and he's certainly not as bad as everyone is making him out to be..

#61 FastMex

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 07:32

Originally posted by as65p


It's got probably more to do with Windsors character than with Lewis... I remember first noticing him as a proud member of the "brown five" back in Mansells day. Nowadays it's Lewis, I lost track of whom he worshipped at particular times in between. The thing is, he always seems to chose someone among the drivers to idolize and then he's behaving just as stupid as the worst fanboys here on the board.


:up:

Indeed, Peter Windsor is quite pathetic.

I will never lift F1 Racing Magazine off the store as long as that moron keeps writing those crappy biased articles. Besides, the flashy but ridiculous photographs and outrageously expensive price tag don't help much either.

#62 Edington Mains

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 07:37

Originally posted by travbrad
I don't think Windsor is an amazing journalist, but he does have a lot of experience, and he's certainly not as bad as everyone is making him out to be.. [/B]


START OF RANT

And do you know something. on the first point he'll totally agree with you. and on the second (for what its worth) i totally agree with you.

you know, its ok to have a say on your thoughts on someone, but to criticise to the point of insulting is bloody rude.

Before Lambasting the guy with opinions of what is right and wrong, or how good or bad he is, sit back and think to yourself, would i love to be in his shoes?
Because by the very fact that you all come onto this forum, and then take up your pens in response, i bet every one of you would say yes!.

OK he has favourites, haven't we all? he may be biased towards one or another driver, again haven't we all at one time or another tried to impart our own wisdom onto another in the strong belief that we are correct.

I can read his stuff,but then i can read anyones.
its all interesting to read from a different angle, different peoples opinions and perceptions of ther whys and wherefores and the rights and wrongs.

But one thing, until you have written reports and articles*, until you have stood in front of a TV camera*.. you can draw your conclusion of how good or bad at a job someone is, but you are not qualified enough to criticise, until you can get up there yourself and do it better.…
*yes i have.

RANT OVER

#63 travbrad

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 08:22

I like what you said about the different angles/viewpoints. The best way to really get an idea of what's going on is to hear from many people, not just one. That way you can form your own opinions, and hopefully get an overall picture of what's going on. I think that's true of any journalism, not just F1 specifically.

#64 kar

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 09:37

Originally posted by Stibbles


Of course - And how would you disect a corner?


I wouldn't.

And that is because I have absolutely no idea of driving an F1 car on the limit and I therefore wouldn't presume to say a driver could improve his technique. For example by suggesting he 'speed up his second phase turn-in'. To say something like that never having been in a car is frankly a load of self-indulgent bullshit.

#65 santori

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 10:14

Originally posted by Edington Mains


you know, its ok to have a say on your thoughts on someone, but to criticise to the point of insulting is bloody rude.


Actually, that's a large part of the reason I dislike his writing - his criticisms of those in F1 go well beyond the point of insulting eg. his pity and contempt for drivers who, apparently, can't understand what he's writing about and who would be much better drivers if they could. His attitude -to those both in and out of F1 - that if you don't agree with him, you obviously know nothing about modern F1.

#66 Jackman

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Posted 01 February 2008 - 10:19

Originally posted by kar
I wouldn't.

And that is because I have absolutely no idea of driving an F1 car on the limit and I therefore wouldn't presume to say a driver could improve his technique. For example by suggesting he 'speed up his second phase turn-in'. To say something like that never having been in a car is frankly a load of self-indulgent bullshit.

Windsor has driven a number of F1 cars.

#67 kar

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 10:00

On the limit?

#68 Imperial

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 10:22

I will admit to finding some of Peter Windsor's columns slightly over the top in their descriptions of on-track activities, but anyone who reads Mark Hughes in Autosport could throw the same accusation towards Mark.

That said, what do you actually want these guys to talk about?

They're not pop stars or movie actors. I don't want to read about whether Lewis Hamilton's hair ws better when he had his GP2 afro or with his current Will Smith cut, or about the latest fashions Fernando Alonso is blazing a trail with.

I actually do want to read about what they are doing on the track. And to write about that is probably easier said than done.

Surely some kudos has to be awarded to both Peter Windsor and Mark Hughes, and in fact any journalists like them, for at least conveying as much as they possibly can what is going on on the track?

Or would you rather all go back to the official F1 magazine which had such exciting columns as I think Jane Nottage with her update on what had been going on in F1's social and party circles that month.

Hmmm. Now I wonder why that magazine went bust pretty quick...

#69 kodandaram

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 12:45

Peter Windsor used to work for Williams a long time ago . And he was the Team manager on just on occasion when the regular chap took ill or something and that was at silverstone I think . I am not sure . Anyway that was during the days of Nigel Mansell I think . Long time ago .

Apparently he gained so much knowledge about F1 since then - more so than the rest of the world put together - that he thinks he is an authority on all matters technical or not about F1 . His asinine opinions and articles resulted in a marked decline in the sales of that F1 racing magazine . I have personally written about a dozen letters in this regard to them .... just as millions over the world would have . I don't know if he is still workign for them or if he is sacked ..but I saw him with SPEED TV t-Shirt some time back ...

Good riddance I say ...the man is living in a parallel universe . He should be given immediate medical attention before he loses what little touch with reality he has left in him .

#70 Mat

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 18:17

Originally posted by kodandaram
.... just as millions over the world would have .


Their worldwide circulation isnt big enough for thay kind of backlash! :lol:

Originally posted by kodandaram
I don't know if he is still workign for them or if he is sacked ..but I saw him with SPEED TV t-Shirt some time back ...


He works for the F1 Racing still. He also works for SpeedTV (circuit correspodent) and FIA (post-qual & race top 3 interviewer).

#71 former champ

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 08:07

Windsor. Never had any time for him. Changes his opinion of drivers like the ****ing wind. Bases it on whether he tends to get on with them or not. I have a collection of F1 Racing magazines from the mid 1990's to early 00's and its astounding just how night and day his articles can be, regarding certain drivers.

and that is the trait of someone pretty useless in my opinion. Only Bishop is worse. :down:

#72 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 08:24

Originally posted by Jackman
Windsor has driven a number of F1 cars.


He's sat in them, yes. Some have even been turning laptimes. But to call it driving is being pedantic.

#73 Rubens Hakkamacher

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 20:50

Originally posted by kar
On the limit?


If Windsor were to ask you the same what would your answer be?

#74 Durant

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 02:09

His driver summary of 2007 in the January edition is hilarious. Regarding Lewis

He is Kimi plus a level or two. I say that in the wake of such races as bahrain where he on a 'ferrari day' outdrove Kimi, just as he also did in china


In China? :lol:

"Alonso made a great decision to join mclaren but his year fell apart when it became obvious that Lewis was going to outpace him. Not that Alonso couldnt have regained the momentum if hed been prepared to deal with the situation positively, he could seen his faults in his driving that had been previously disguised by sticky michelins and a great renault front end, were in 2007 exposed by low grip michelins and Hamilton. He could have worked on this and reminded himself that by the law of averages he was inevitably going to beat his rookie team mate on occasions, as he did at Monza and Spa.


This guy is seriously a nutter. Alonso did regain momentum and cut down a 14 point gap, and he beat Lewis 10-7 in races, yet this moron talks about occasionaly beating lewis because of the 'law of averages'. His bias is up with the best on this forum.

#75 Suntrek

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 15:58

Originally posted by Jackman
Windsor has driven a number of F1 cars.


Not sure about "a number". But I remember a threefold piece some year ago about him "driving" a Toyota.

It went something like this:

First article : Windsor sits in car.

Second article: Windsor out on track. Windsor spins. Windsor back in pits asking for intermediates.

Third article: Windsor completes a lap. Or two.

:drunk:

#76 kar

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Posted 05 February 2008 - 16:33

Originally posted by Rubens Hakkamacher


If Windsor were to ask you the same what would your answer be?


I haven't, and as such I wouldn't feel I could at all comment on the efficacy of the technique of those that can with any (whatsoever) validity or reliability.

#77 potmotr

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 10:24

Isn't that the beauty of reading any writer?

You get a feeling for their style, and if it matches your tastes you keep returning. If it doesn't, you don't pick up that particular publication anymore. Like any other kind of newspaper or magazine, you have a rough idea of their perspective after a couple of reads and you match your buying habits to suit.

You have to also consider that these magazines aren't charities. They're constructed to be as attractive as possible to the widest possible audience and thereby sell as many copies as possible. That's why you'll see Lewis Hamilton on the cover of F1 Racing more often that not. It shifts magazines. And it's a mass-market publication.

When Matt Bishop was editor of F1 Racing I really hated how there were more pictures of him in the magazine than the drivers. In one edition a few years back I counted 16 shots of Bishop. But the people who put these things together aren't dummies and clearly feel this tactic would help readers build an affinity with the chief of the magazine. And the same is true of Windsor's opions.

Autosport is a bit more specialist but has still had to adapt to a fast changing information world. I remember in the early 1990s it wasn't unusual to see a sportscar (and once an F3 car!) on the front cover of Autosport, but those days are gone. There are so many sources of information about these days that the magazines really have to jump from the bookshelf to get sold.

A shot of Lewis Hamilton, in Britain at least, will do this better than any other. I presume the Spanish version features Alonso for the same purpose.

Peter Windsor fits into this business dynamic. Like Mark Hughes, Nigel Roebuck, Edward Gorman and almost any other writer, he may be opinionated, but if his arguments are well made readers will keep returning whether they agree or not. I didn't always agree with old Roebuck, but I always found his writing quite compelling, and knew where he was coming from.

Hating a writer with a foaming passion is just ignorant, especially when there are so many other options out there.

As for Mr Windsor, I find his writing a bit over complex. Hands up if you know what 'dynamic mass' and 'the moment' are? I don't, but perhaps that's just me!

On a personal note I had the chance to meet him a few years ago at the Australian Grand Prix. I found him helpful, insightful and took time to discuss the opinions of another fan (me). For someone who'd attended hundreds of Grands Prix, I thought that was really cool.

A good guy.

#78 kar

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 10:30

Hands up if you know what 'dynamic mass' and 'the moment' are? I don't, but perhaps that's just me!


That's the point a lot of people are making here - no one knows what that bullshit means except Peter Windsor - and even that is up for debate.

#79 le chat noir

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 12:32

Well, Bishop was there from the beginning, Tim Scott took over and did, what, two issues?

Well he's left, and the new guy Hans Seebring who starts next monday is ex- sports deputy editor at Nuts.

Goodbye F1 Racing :wave: :rolleyes:

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#80 LostProphet

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 12:53

Originally posted by le chat noir
Well, Bishop was there from the beginning, Tim Scott took over and did, what, two issues?

Well he's left, and the new guy Hans Seebring who starts next monday is ex- sports deputy editor at Nuts.

Goodbye F1 Racing :wave: :rolleyes:


Nuts?!

Oh god. I may soon be cancelling my subscription :/

#81 polymath

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 13:57

I rarely read Peter Hamilton's column and I can't stand the pit walk he does prior to the races although it is fun to see him get blown off by most of the drivers. As far as F1 mag is concerned I'm sick of seeing LH on the cover plus I usually get mine around the time the newer issue is released so the "news" is dated at best.


BTW does any one know for sure if he is the mole?

#82 kar

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 14:01

Originally posted by le chat noir
Well he's left, and the new guy Hans Seebring who starts next monday is ex- sports deputy editor at Nuts.


:rotfl: :rotfl:

I buy 'Motorsport' now, personally. Don't always like the editorial line, but its a substantial 'grownups' publication and it's been getting better and better each month.

#83 dajwalia

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 20:57

Originally posted by polymath
I rarely read Peter Hamilton's column and I can't stand the pit walk he does prior to the races although it is fun to see him get blown off by most of the drivers. As far as F1 mag is concerned I'm sick of seeing LH on the cover plus I usually get mine around the time the newer issue is released so the "news" is dated at best.


BTW does any one know for sure if he is the mole?


I do not like Peter Hamilton, but there are a few things that you mention are not true about Peter Windsor.

He DOES NOT get blown away by most of the drivers. I watch him on Speed and have seen him with most of the drivers on the current grid. And I admire the ability to nab almost anyone from Bernie to Ron to Norbert Haug to Newey, Mike Gascoyne to Falvio (basically whoever noteworthy he finds on the grid, he tries for them and succeeds most of the time)

Of course there are occassions when people on the grid are doing really important things and won't talk. BUT he DOES NOT get blown away.

#84 Chiara

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 21:09

It's probably not a personal thing is it? I mean your just about to go out and race you probably want to concentrate on your preparations, have a last chat with your engineer, go to the toliet, kiss your girlfriend.... (not in any particular order).

The last thing you probably want is a journalist sticking a microphone in your face and asking stupid questions when your trying to mentally prepare for an intense afternoon at work.

#85 Nukle

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 21:14

Peter Windord´s role? Bashing Alonso and last year praising Hamilton too.

#86 dajwalia

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 21:19

Originally posted by Chiara
It's probably not a personal thing is it? I mean your just about to go out and race you probably want to concentrate on your preparations, have a last chat with your engineer, go to the toliet, kiss your girlfriend.... (not in any particular order).

The last thing you probably want is a journalist sticking a microphone in your face and asking stupid questions when your trying to mentally prepare for an intense afternoon at work.


Ron "protected" LH from all these journalist bullshit just prior to race. Peter would walk past LH on the grid and mention "Ron won't let any of us talk to him".

I agree with the observations on this thread by most. Sometimes he takes his worship business tad further and then in a moment his commentary becomes annoying from informative.

#87 secessionman

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 22:08

I couldn't see this quoted on this thread but in Windsor's Interlagos preview (on itv.com) he made the following observation with regards to Hamilton's comments in China......

'Isn’t it sad that the best driver we have seen in F1 since Jim Clark – both in terms of talent and in being a decent person who cares about the sport and everyone around him – has been reduced to saying that?'

So bollocks to the likes of Stewart, Fittipaldi, Lauda, Villeneuve, Piquet, Senna, Prost and Schumacher..... Hamilton is now officially better than all of them. :mad:

#88 Architrion

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 07:32

Well, at least he still believes Jim Clark was better :love:

#89 snark

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 08:27

Peter Windsor also has some sort of affiliation with Channel 10 in Australia. He does a short live cross-over just before the race starts (we assume, since the races are almost never live here), and I've seen some pics of him on TV with a Channel 10 shirt on.

But if I hear Greg Rust say "Channel 10's own Peter Windsor" during a telecast one more time I'm likely to put a foot through the telly...

#90 le chat noir

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 13:43

Originally posted by secessionman
I couldn't see this quoted on this thread but in Windsor's Interlagos preview (on itv.com) he made the following observation with regards to Hamilton's comments in China......

'Isn’t it sad that the best driver we have seen in F1 since Jim Clark – both in terms of talent and in being a decent person who cares about the sport and everyone around him – has been reduced to saying that?'

So bollocks to the likes of Stewart, Fittipaldi, Lauda, Villeneuve, Piquet, Senna, Prost and Schumacher..... Hamilton is now officially better than all of them. :mad:


but in terms of decency, a very subjective thing.

he's not saying he's a better talent. necessarily

#91 kar

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 13:44

A pretty ironic statement too given what Hamilton went on to do in qualifying.

#92 F1Fanatic.co.uk

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 13:57

Originally posted by le chat noir
but in terms of decency, a very subjective thing.

he's not saying he's a better talent. necessarily

He said both in terms of talent and decency. Putting Hamilton ahead of Stewart, Fittipaldi etc... on both grounds so early in his career is just hype, surely?

Originally posted by Kar
A pretty ironic statement too given what Hamilton went on to do in qualifying.

What did Hamilton do at Shanghai in qualifying?

#93 kar

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 13:58

Originally posted by F1Fanatic.co.uk

What did Hamilton do at Shanghai in qualifying?


Ah nothing, I was getting confused with his antics in Brazil :(

#94 big x

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 21:03

Originally posted by snark
Peter Windsor also has some sort of affiliation with Channel 10 in Australia.


Presumably because he was born in Australia.

adam

#95 Mat

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 21:37

Originally posted by big x


Presumably because he was born in Australia.

adam


and presumably because they pay him money. His short segments before a race are not live crosses, but pre-recorded a few minutes before the start.

#96 le chat noir

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 00:56

Originally posted by F1Fanatic.co.uk

He said both in terms of talent and decency. Putting Hamilton ahead of Stewart, Fittipaldi etc... on both grounds so early in his career is just hype, surely?

What did Hamilton do at Shanghai in qualifying?


but that is not how it is meant.

that's not how 'both' works in that situation.

rather it is the sum and in some cases an either/or as all such rating is subjective anyway. so while he might not have greater talent than one of them, his decency will outweigh his talent deficit, and while some other drivers (not mentioned by you probably) have more decency, they have less talent.

#97 Jackman

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 07:50

Originally posted by big x
Presumably because he was born in Australia.

adam

Actually, he was born in England.

Originally posted by polymath
BTW does any one know for sure if he is the mole?

Of course he's not.