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F1 fanaticism reaching new (soccer-like) heights


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#1 Enkei

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 18:23

Snippet of Autosport's article:

"Spanish fans, believing their hero Fernando Alonso was treated unfairly by the team last year, have continually expressed their displeasure with McLaren both at Valencia and Barcelona in preseason testing.

This included shouting of profanity at Alonso's 2007 teammate Lewis Hamilton, hanging unflattering banners, and even throwing junk towards the McLaren cars as they left for the track."


http://www.autosport...ne.php/id/64959

Following incidents at last test sessions in Valencia and Jerez, Spanish fans are now starting to throw junk on the track and grandstands end up being closed. The article even mentions security personnel being hired to ensure thing not to get out of hand.

:down:

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#2 AFCA

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 18:29

Pazzo :down:

#3 peroa

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 18:37

Originally posted by Enkei
Snippet of Autosport's article:

[i]"Spanish ****, believing their hero Fernando Alonso was treated unfairly by the team last year, have continually expressed their displeasure with McLaren both at Valencia and Barcelona in preseason testing.

Anything else suits much better than fans here.
After all, I am not surprised. Lobato and that Marca storyteller (Carlos Miguel?) are doing an awesome job and the Asturian prince and his entourage seem to help them quite a bit.


Yep, propaganda can be a dangerous thing ...

#4 jonpollak

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 20:19

THROWING THINGS ON THE TRACK?

They should loose their race.
End of Story
And be criminally prosecuted for endangering the lives of others.

DISGUSTING.

Jp

#5 AFCA

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 20:22

Pretty sad though quite amusing at the same time looking at how they make a fool of themselves.

http://www.adrivo.co...ton/_367245.jpg

http://www.adrivo.co...ton/_367221.jpg

http://www.adrivo.co...ton/_367220.jpg

http://www.adrivo.co...ton/_367216.jpg

http://www.adrivo.co...ton/_367213.jpg

http://www.f1-live.c...6/diapo_175.jpg

#6 an1res

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 20:22

Originally posted by jonpollak
THROWING THINGS ON THE TRACK?

Jp


Source, please?

#7 SuperDaan

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 20:24

Originally posted by an1res


Source, please?


Read the autosport.com article first please before commenting...

#8 Tifoso05

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 20:25

I'm really ashamed of being spanish.

I really regret that Alonso is spanish.

I really hate this image of "football hooligans" the spaniards are showing in this events.

I'm sorry. :(

One solution: Make them pay 50€ instead of 5€ and be sure that they will shut up and go somewhere else.

#9 SuperDaan

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 20:27

Its just as in soccer lately a small group spols it for the good ones.
10.000 good ones and 10 bad ones what do you think people will remember

#10 Atreiu

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 20:28

Originally posted by jonpollak
THROWING THINGS ON THE TRACK?

They should loose their race.
End of Story
And be criminally prosecuted for endangering the lives of others.

DISGUSTING.

Jp


In our dreams, only.
Money dictates otherwise.

Is Estoril available for testing?

#11 inca_roads

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 20:33

Just think Nelson, don't drive too well, or you've got this to look forward to a year from now...

#12 Wouter

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 20:34

Alonso and his entourage share considerable responsibility in this thing: they did nothing to stop, or even seemed to more or less confirm stories from journalists (that were reputedly close to Alonso, like this Lobato fellow) that McLaren was outright sabotaging him. That we get this kind of reactions afterwards is not surprising; they believe McLaren screwed Alonso throughout the year.

I just hope he doesn't get rewarded this year for screwing over Mercedes (which had even launched an ad-campaign around him - bad mistake) and McLaren in such a sly manner.

#13 noikeee

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 20:39

Originally posted by peroa
After all, I am not surprised. Lobato and that Marca storyteller (Carlos Miguel?) are doing an awesome job and the Asturian prince and his entourage seem to help them quite a bit.

Yep, propaganda can be a dangerous thing ...


Exactly. The public will believe anything the press feeds them, specially when it is in a field they're not very knowledgeable about (F1, since Alonso's popularity certainly seems to have brought a lot of new spanish people into F1). I blame that bunch of journalists for this - full of bias and excessively patriotic. It's a recipe for disaster.

Of course I know every spanish F1 fan isn't like this, and that a little bit of poking fun at the rivals of your fav driver/team/whatever is nothing new and perfectly healthy for F1. It seems they're crossing the line a bit here, though. Plus those banners fail so bad at humour it becomes funny in an unintentional way. :rotfl:

I think this tends to happens up to some extent when a new big driver comes up in any country that isn't used to having people in F1. I see a bit of this fanatic behaviour in polish Kubica fans as well - and judging by some comments in portuguese websites, if Parente makes it into F1 with success it'll be the same story all over again. Very annoying since I support the guy as well, and don't want to be associated with fanatic ultra-patriotic morons.

#14 Group B

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 20:41

Originally posted by Tifoso05
I'm really ashamed of being spanish.

I really regret that Alonso is spanish.

I really hate this image of "football hooligans" the spaniards are showing in this events.

I'm sorry. :(

One solution: Make them pay 50€ instead of 5€ and be sure that they will shut up and go somewhere else.

You have nothing to be ashamed of. These idiots have no more connection to you than English soccer hooligans or Tony Blair have to do with me.

#15 MichaelPM

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 20:42

Originally posted by Enkei
Spanish fans are now starting to throw junk on the track and grandstands end up being closed.


:down:

Despicable behavior no matter what situation.

#16 Clatter

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 20:58

Originally posted by jonpollak
THROWING THINGS ON THE TRACK?

They should loose their race.
End of Story
And be criminally prosecuted for endangering the lives of others.

DISGUSTING.

Jp


At the very least they should ban spectators for the tests there.

#17 RSNS

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 21:13

Originally posted by Tifoso05
I'm really ashamed of being spanish.

I really regret that Alonso is spanish.

I really hate this image of "football hooligans" the spaniards are showing in this events.

I'm sorry. :(

One solution: Make them pay 50€ instead of 5€ and be sure that they will shut up and go somewhere else.


You are overreacting. Blame tabloids, not your country. However, it is true that it is disgusting behaviour. (I'm sot Spanish, by the way).

Alonso ought to come out and speak against that kind of behaviour.

#18 Sbastien

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 21:19

Well I don't mind the banners and an odd raised middle finger seems OK with me too, however throwing stuff on the track is not done (if this happened at all) and those doing so should be removed, fined whatever.

For McLaren however this might be a good preparation for the 2008 season, many fans around the world will want to show their unhappiness (disgust) of what McLaren did to F1 as a sport, the 2007 season and their driver(s) last year.

#19 Tifoso05

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 21:35

Originally posted by RSNS


You are overreacting. Blame tabloids, not your country. However, it is true that it is disgusting behaviour. (I'm sot Spanish, by the way).

Alonso ought to come out and speak against that kind of behaviour.


I wish I was but... it's the harsh reality.

Things have been quite extreme since Alonso started winning. The media, sometimes helped by Alonso and never stopped by him, atacked Michael Schumacher and Ferrari: cheaters, you're old, cheaters x2, cheaters x 20000. That was the game.

Now Alonso has been defeated by his team mate, and by Kimi Räikkönen. So the new bunch of "F1 Experts" who started watching F1 since.... .... 2003? That's too much, Maybe 2005 after Alonso won a race. So those experts and the media started moaning and go against every one else. During 2007, the ball was passed to McLaren rather than Ferrari. They started gently talking about the wonderful team and ended in non-sense stupidity.

The media influences too much these "F1 Experts" who think that F1 is like football where they throw pig heads to the field, bottles of water, lighters... And that's how things will go if no one does anything agains it.

My solution: Make them pay for going there.

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#20 undersquare

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 21:44

Originally posted by Sébastien
Well I don't mind the banners and an odd raised middle finger seems OK with me too, however throwing stuff on the track is not done (if this happened at all) and those doing so should be removed, fined whatever.

For McLaren however this might be a good preparation for the 2008 season, many fans around the world will want to show their unhappiness (disgust) of what McLaren did to F1 as a sport, the 2007 season and their driver(s) last year.


In my previous forum there was one member who had got it so out of proportion, he could not sleep.

These are people who are predisposed to hate and hysteria, just easy recruits for a nasty political vendetta.

Fortunately, there don't seem to be many of them, though they make a lot of noise.

#21 Nitropower

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 21:54

Certainly throwing things at McLaren's garage is not a thing that's right. But how many where throwing things? Did they throw some sandwich or 50 beer bottles? I'm just curious, I'd like to see some pictures to have an exact idea how serious it is... because, when there are incidents, the media reports it (for example tonight some football fans burnt two cars before Betis-Deportivo game and they've reported it), but I see no report of fans throwing anything in Barcelona.

Otoh I can believe the other part (shouting at McLaren and Hamilton, and showing banners). I's strange people shout at Hamilton and Mclaren and not at Ferrari, given they are WDC and WCC and have beaten "local hero" Alonso.

Maybe people don't need Marca, Lobato or Miquel to hate McLaren and it's enough to have seen Hamilton's speech of bashing Alonso full time or breaking the team rules, Ron admitting who they were racing, the cranes, the FIA's forgiveness with Hamilton etc etc etc. :wave:

#22 Wouter

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 21:59

Originally posted by Sébastien
For McLaren however this might be a good preparation for the 2008 season, many fans around the world will want to show their unhappiness (disgust) of what McLaren did to F1 as a sport, the 2007 season and their driver(s) last year.

What did McLaren do to their drivers? Giving them a winning and reliable car, do they deserve the middlefinger for that? :down:

#23 Chiara

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 21:59

Personally I think there are better ways to support your favourite team/driver than to denigrate your rivals in such a fashion.

There is a stark difference between genuine loyalty and fanaticism IMO. I'm an extremely loyal tifosi, but it doesn't mean I don't hold my teams rivals in esteem and with respect.

Unfortunately, it would seem that when some people get together mob mentality takes over.

#24 Wouter

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 22:03

We didn't see this kind of stuff at Monza last year, despite the situation as it was then. That's a stark difference with the Spanish circuits now.

#25 Sbastien

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 22:03

Originally posted by undersquare
In my previous forum there was one member who had got it so out of proportion, he could not sleep.

These are people who are predisposed to hate and hysteria, just easy recruits for a nasty political vendetta.

Fortunately, there don't seem to be many of them, though they make a lot of noise.

Must have been some ugly forum you used to visit, but yes some do take it too far and lose all perspective.
F1 is just a silly game every other week in the season, however now nationality and of course the shamefull events of 2007 will have their repercussions.

#26 Davebo

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 22:08

Originally posted by an1res


Source, please?


Are you blind? Or afraid of facts?

#27 Kenaltgr

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 22:11

Originally posted by Enkei
Snippet of Autosport's article:

"Spanish fans, believing their hero Fernando Alonso was treated unfairly by the team last year, have continually expressed their displeasure with McLaren both at Valencia and Barcelona in preseason testing.

This included shouting of profanity at Alonso's 2007 teammate Lewis Hamilton, hanging unflattering banners, and even throwing junk towards the McLaren cars as they left for the track."


http://www.autosport...ne.php/id/64959

Following incidents at last test sessions in Valencia and Jerez, Spanish fans are now starting to throw junk on the track and grandstands end up being closed. The article even mentions security personnel being hired to ensure thing not to get out of hand.

:down:


Oh dear what short memories you have. Damon Hill had to have guarded police at the 1994 Hockenheim GP after receiving death threats from Schumacher fanatics on the Friday of the weekend. Look it up, it makes anything compared to Alonso's fans seems like childs play.

#28 airwise

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 22:12

Ignorant ****.

#29 Nitropower

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 22:13

Originally posted by Wouter
We didn't see this kind of stuff at Monza last year, despite the situation as it was then. That's a stark difference with the Spanish circuits now.


When do you mean? Because if you mean the race.... here's the behaviour. If you understand Italian it's better.

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

#30 Kenaltgr

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 22:17



The review of the 1994 GP above mentions the Death threats against Hill by typical idiot Schumacher fans.

#31 Jacquesback

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 22:24

I'm sure it's not representative of all you spanish people. :lol:

typical spanish people

#32 Chiara

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 22:25

I was actually at Monza in 2006 when Alonso's engine blew. I would say the crowd reaction there is no different probably from any other year when Ferrari have been fighting for the championship and their rival goes off track. I remember Mika Hakkinen getting pretty much a similar response in 1999 - beer bottles and coins thrown at him as he passed one of the grandstands on his way back to the pit complex. Although he probably got less swear words and insults :p

I however, don't believe this is limited to just Italians or Spanish fans....no matter where you go there will always be a small element of people who take things just too far. The important thing is knowing what is acceptable and decent and law abiding and what is not, and to understand that not all F1 fans act in such a way.

#33 Nitropower

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 22:31

Originally posted by Chiara
I was actually at Monza in 2006 when Alonso's engine blew. I would say the crowd reaction there is no different probably from any other year when Ferrari have been fighting for the championship and their rival goes off track. I remember Mika Hakkinen getting pretty much a similar response in 1999 - beer bottles and coins thrown at him as he passed one of the grandstands on his way back to the pit complex. Although he probably got less swear words and insults :p

I however, don't believe this is limited to just Italians or Spanish fans....no matter where you go there will always be a small element of people who take things just too far. The important thing is knowing what is acceptable and decent and law abiding and what is not, and to understand that not all F1 fans act in such a way.


That's what I wanted to show with that videos where they say "bastardo", "va fan culo", etc.
It happens anywhere. I just find it strange that some like to point at a concrete nationality.

#34 MichaelPM

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 22:31

Originally posted by Nitropower


When do you mean? Because if you mean the race.... here's the behaviour. If you understand Italian it's better.

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related


I dont think you need to know Italian to figure out "Alonso bastardo" :rotfl:

#35 jondon

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 22:49

Originally posted by Nitropower


When do you mean? Because if you mean the race.... here's the behaviour. If you understand Italian it's better.

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related



So, in Italy it is called "passion" and in Spain the same is to be called "hooliganism"????

#36 macoran

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 22:51

does the term "mania" come from the word maniac ?
or is it the other way round ?

#37 ensign14

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 22:56

It comes from an ancient Greek word meaning madness..."mania" came first as the adjective derives from the noun.

#38 Madras

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 23:02

Ja Ja Jamilton!!! :rotfl:

#39 an1res

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 23:09

Originally posted by Davebo


Are you blind? Or afraid of facts?


Only missed that line in the article, sorry.

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#40 macoran

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Posted 02 February 2008 - 23:16

Originally posted by ensign14
It comes from an ancient Greek word meaning madness..."mania" came first as the adjective derives from the noun.


OK, next question...does F1 come before Football ? or..? (alfa/numerical betically speaking that is..)

what came first Footballmania or F1mania ?

am I getting OT ?

#41 bogi

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 00:13

Nobody expects the spansih inquisition :rotfl:

#42 Nitropower

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 00:17

football seems to be older than F1 (not older than races in general, not at all).

#43 se7en_24

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 00:27

Is there any truth in the rumour that the Spanish 'fans' were throwing bananas? :down:

#44 macoran

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 00:36

Originally posted by se7en_24
Is there any truth in the rumour that the Spanish 'fans' were throwing bananas? :down:


I do recall Hamilton saying something about "the other monkeys" on the grid early last year !

It all startd somewhere dinnit?

#45 F1Obsession

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 00:50



Another Alonso fan.

#46 Nitropower

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 00:59

Originally posted by F1Obsession


Another Alonso fan.


That guy is an as shole, not a fan.
I wish they ban him from the circuit. He has the chance to stay there and he acts like that?

#47 RSNS

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 01:36

Well - I'm fed up by all this quibbling. Of course some Spanish fans behaved badly; Italian fans behave badly too; British football fans began hooliganism; But Italy, Spain and Britain have all been, at different times, on the forefront of European culture. So a few ruffians do not a country make.

What I think is worse is all the hypocrisy. For instance, after the death of Stephan Bellof a journal in Germany suggested that it had been Ickx's doing (Ickx was always a perfect gentleman, both in track and outside); this is criminal, I think. Regarding the Hamilton/Alonso tantrums, the British and Spanish press reacted in a similar vein: 'he harmed one of us! Let's hate him!'

This is a suggestion only: at least here it would be nice to avoid poisonous stings. I am not saying this thread contains any such stings, but I have read them in other threads. So, my suggestion is: search deep down; and if you feel you are having pleasure in exposing outrageous behaviour from people you do not really like think twice before you post. It is very likely that you are really pandering to a secret hatred against a country or a group of people.

That is always how racial and national hatred starts. Let's be calm and try to hate nobody unless people that actually harmed us.

Just my two cents.

#48 Nitropower

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 02:12

Originally posted by RSNS
Well - I'm fed up by all this quibbling. Of course some Spanish fans behaved badly; Italian fans behave badly too; British football fans began hooliganism; But Italy, Spain and Britain have all been, at different times, on the forefront of European culture. So a few ruffians do not a country make.

What I think is worse is all the hypocrisy. For instance, after the death of Stephan Bellof a journal in Germany suggested that it had been Ickx's doing (Ickx was always a perfect gentleman, both in track and outside); this is criminal, I think. Regarding the Hamilton/Alonso tantrums, the British and Spanish press reacted in a similar vein: 'he harmed one of us! Let's hate him!'

This is a suggestion only: at least here it would be nice to avoid poisonous stings. I am not saying this thread contains any such stings, but I have read them in other threads. So, my suggestion is: search deep down; and if you feel you are having pleasure in exposing outrageous behaviour from people you do not really like think twice before you post. It is very likely that you are really pandering to a secret hatred against a country or a group of people.

That is always how racial and national hatred starts. Let's be calm and try to hate nobody unless people that actually harmed us.

Just my two cents.


:up:

Anyway take a deeper look at which side blames certain nationality/ies so often. Rather than generalise this behaviour.

#49 jigc

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 03:45

Originally posted by F1Obsession


Another Alonso fan.


this was popular by the great.

Posted Image

#50 airwise

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Posted 03 February 2008 - 08:28

Originally posted by RSNS
Well - I'm fed up by all this quibbling. Of course some Spanish fans behaved badly; Italian fans behave badly too; British football fans began hooliganism; But Italy, Spain and Britain have all been, at different times, on the forefront of European culture. So a few ruffians do not a country make.


I'd love to agree, and I fondly remember booing Ayrton when he fell off the road at Becketts all those years ago. But when we see racist behavior that is clearly illegal according to EU law, coming from a disturbing number of people from a country with a nationalist past, someone somewhere has to stamp it out in my opinion. At least bring it to the authorities attention. Those throwing bananas and making monkey chants should be arrested and locked up. It's as simple as that.