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2nd British Race


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#101 Spunout

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 15:06

Originally posted by mursuka80


Damn straight! Iwould be there no matter what the cost :clap: 150000 people would come im sure :up:


And it would still lose money. In 90s Robert Lappalainen (the organizer of Helsinki Thunder DTM race, which pulled 100.000+ spectators) talked about Finnish GP. He claimed it was possible to convince Bernie, but after few calculations it became very clear nobody wanted to fund his plan. Finnish companies expected proper return on investment. Significant govt handouts would have been the only way. They said thanks but no thanks, so that was it. Nowadays the situation is even worse. The costs have increased. With car manufacturers around, bigger countries like China are in better position. The remaining GPs go to countries that are desperately in need of positive PR. What we need is bad national image and dictator. No more dumb politicians claiming the money should be spent on stuff like schools and hospitals.

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#102 Group B

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 15:09

Originally posted by Spunout

...What we need is bad national image and dictator. ....

If that were the case Britain would have held all 18 races a year under Blair.

#103 Spunout

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 15:12

Originally posted by Group B

If that were the case Britain would have held all 18 races a year under Blair.


No races at all for this guy? :eek:

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

#104 Ian Stewart

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 15:22

A second British F1 race? Forget it. It's time people faced facts. F1 race organizers/promoters are now utterly dependent on government subsidies. They couldn't hope to pay Bernie's fees any other way. The chance of a cash-strapped British government agreeing to line Bernie's pockets is almost zero, whether the GP is held at Silverstone or anywhere else.

The London proposal was hopelessly impractical for a host of reasons, disruption being the main obstacle. All the other British circuits have a mountain to climb before they can comply with F1's current standards, and they would need even more government money than Silverstone.

Judging by recent press reports we're reaching yet another "crunch time" for Silverstone, and I can't see the circuit walking into bankruptcy with it's eyes wide open for the privilege of staging the British GP. Far better to sell the circuit and forget the whole damn thing.

I wonder who might buy it?

:

#105 Blackdog

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 15:31

Originally posted by Hacklerf


Yea but do you go to the shops and buy a tin of beans for 50p, when your mates go in and pay £1? Silverstone need to pay what the others pay, stop ****ing about trying to get it cheaper, the government should of course help if they are unable to raise the funds, but that is a different discussion.



Fees aren't fixed.
Bernie gets whatever he can screw out of the deal.

#106 metz

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 15:44

Originally posted by Spunout
The remaining GPs go to countries that are desperately in need of positive PR.

Ahhh...Is that why we have 2 in Spain?

#107 Group B

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 15:47

Originally posted by Spunout


No races at all for this guy? :eek:

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

:lol:
Fair point. Half a dozen each for those two meglomaniacal clowns, with the last two in Iran and North Korea :D :up:

#108 Red ITC

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 15:47

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever
The city of Valencia can see the value of a F1 race, surely the Government of the whole of GB can?


The Valencia gamble is going to be an interesting value test for F1 venues. The idea is that the province benefits from the halo effect of F1 at a cost of a few hundred million euros spread over a decade. If I were a Valencian taxpayer, I might be happier with a new world class technical college churning out highly employable types to attract big biz to the area; I can see why schmoozing and hustling with F1 types would be more attractive to the Valencian pols who decide these things though.

I did read last year sometime that financially Sepang is a disaster; this was the poster deal in the new age of paying mid 8 figures to host a race was it not?

#109 1george

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 16:03

Originally posted by metz

Ahhh...Is that why we have 2 in Spain?

No

#110 ralt12

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 16:08

quote:
Originally posted by Spunout


No races at all for this guy?

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related


And to think at one point we had three...but like now, it was all about the money then, as well. A shame we'll won't get one back until BE gets retired...

#111 peanutslab

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 16:50

Originally posted by Dunc
It seems odd though that he's prepared to hold a new race in non-exotic Spain but not a new one in non-exotic Britain. And why oh why do the French get two races?


I would have thought a street circuit in the vibrant city of Valencia, in an area recently redeveloped for the ultra glamorous Americas Cup, with stunning new buildings, wonderful restaurants and bars, and great weather, probably is somewhat more exotic than some dreary field somewhere in middle England, frequented by blokes in anoraks whose idea of great facilities is a portaloo and a greasy pie.

#112 mursuka80

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 16:51

Originally posted by Spunout


And it would still lose money. In 90s Robert Lappalainen (the organizer of Helsinki Thunder DTM race, which pulled 100.000+ spectators) talked about Finnish GP. He claimed it was possible to convince Bernie, but after few calculations it became very clear nobody wanted to fund his plan. Finnish companies expected proper return on investment. Significant govt handouts would have been the only way. They said thanks but no thanks, so that was it. Nowadays the situation is even worse. The costs have increased. With car manufacturers around, bigger countries like China are in better position. The remaining GPs go to countries that are desperately in need of positive PR. What we need is bad national image and dictator. No more dumb politicians claiming the money should be spent on stuff like schools and hospitals.


one can dream :D

#113 Group B

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 17:01

Originally posted by peanutslab


I would have thought a street circuit in the vibrant city of Valencia, in an area recently redeveloped for the ultra glamorous Americas Cup, with stunning new buildings, wonderful restaurants and bars, and great weather, probably is somewhat more exotic than some dreary field somewhere in middle England, frequented by blokes in anoraks whose idea of great facilities is a portaloo and a greasy pie.

:lol: :up:

#114 Beej

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 17:11

I frequent Donington and Silverstone most of the Seasons weekends and out of the 2 I prefer Donington at the moment. I am not to sure about Donny attracting more headline events after loosing the Renault World Series to Silverstone for 08 due to Donny's lack of crowd control being one of the main issues.

The Motorcross track is on the infield behind the start finish straight. The plan to straighten out the Foggy esses at the end of Starsky's strataight look awsome but as said I do not think that will now happen as it also involved moving the pits/start finish line to the new straight. I love watching Euroboss and TGP running around the full circuit and when I have been posted at post 7, the cage 1/2 way down the Kraners, they have been awsome, far more impressive than watching the same cars go throught Becketts/Maggots at Silverstone which to me would be the closest comparison.

#115 Spunout

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 17:45

Originally posted by Ian Stewart
A second British F1 race? Forget it. It's time people faced facts. F1 race organizers/promoters are now utterly dependent on government subsidies.


And this is different from all the other race organizers...how?

Without govt handouts the losses Bahrain, Malaysia or China GPs rack up every year would make British F1 race look like succesful business. Relatively speaking Silverstone IS one of the most profitable GPs in F1. Despite of insane ticket prices they still manage to pull good crowds. Compare that to GPs where the organizers spend gazillion euros/dollars/whatever for building the track, only to organize races for empty grandstands.

#116 Risil

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 17:53

Originally posted by Spunout


Without govt handouts the losses Bahrain, Malaysia or China GPs rack up every year would make British F1 race look like succesful business. Relatively speaking Silverstone IS one of the most profitable GPs in F1. Despite of insane ticket prices they still manage to pull good crowds. Compare that to GPs where the organizers spend gazillion euros/dollars/whatever for building the track, only to organize races for empty grandstands.


On the other hand, when the bubble bursts and Bernie runs out of governments looking to promote themselves with unpopular subsidised races, there'll still be a bunch of circuits in Europe who'll eat their right arms to run a race at a small profit.

#117 Gregor Marshall

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 17:59

Don't forget that even though the European GP at Donington in '93 was a "success" it does not mean that it was financially successful for those involved and maybe they wouldn't want another one at the rates Bernie charges.
I'm not for or against Silverstone but I've been lucky enough to go many times either as Joe Public or VIP and either way you cannot beat the atmosphere and normally it is a good race there, IMHO. also, the transport infrastructure there is now bettet than anywhere else in the UK so if we want a British GP it's the only current circuit that could be used.

#118 F575 GTC

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 20:07

Originally posted by Beej
I frequent Donington and Silverstone most of the Seasons weekends and out of the 2 I prefer Donington at the moment. I am not to sure about Donny attracting more headline events after loosing the Renault World Series to Silverstone for 08 due to Donny's lack of crowd control being one of the main issues.

The Motorcross track is on the infield behind the start finish straight. The plan to straighten out the Foggy esses at the end of Starsky's strataight look awsome but as said I do not think that will now happen as it also involved moving the pits/start finish line to the new straight. I love watching Euroboss and TGP running around the full circuit and when I have been posted at post 7, the cage 1/2 way down the Kraners, they have been awsome, far more impressive than watching the same cars go throught Becketts/Maggots at Silverstone which to me would be the closest comparison.


Yep :up: Out of the two i'd certainly prefer Donington. I'm into my Sportscars more then the single-seaters, but watching the Le Mans Series in 2006, as well as the FIA GT Back in 02-04; was alot more fun to see at Donington rather than Silverstone. It's just a fantastic track - more exciting to see these cars go down Craner, or down onto the run to Foggy's, there's just some to me at least that makes Donington more of a thrill than Silverstone. It's also a heck of a lot of fun driving it in GTR2!

Ok so Silverstone is really the only setup track the UK has right now (Donny would need the car-parks at the back of the Pitlane / Melbourne concreteting over for a start) but as a dream, it would be nice to see the F1 back at the Park! I know that back during the EuroBOSS in 2000, the old Benetton from 95/96 was running laps of 58 seconds, so i've no idea what the time would be for a modern car.

#119 delboy59

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 20:56

Originally posted by Stephen W
The idea of having a Grand Prix at either Oulton Park or Cadwell Park fills me with dred!

Just imagine the chaos on the roads around the circuit. It's bad enough when the BTCC are at Oulton never mind a GP!

However the bottom line for me is that I wouldn't want either of these wonderful circuits butchered so that the pampered pooches of F1 could race there!

The only sensible suggestion so far is Rockingham, but NOT the oval tarck but the infield circuit a la Indy!

:wave:


Oulton almost hosted the Belgian GP in 1971! TRUE

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#120 delboy59

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 20:58

Originally posted by philhitchings
[ Foulston sold Brands and the other tracks to MSV.


[/B]


Ms Foulston actually sold to Octagon who sold to JP!

#121 Risil

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 22:03

Originally posted by delboy59


Oulton almost hosted the Belgian GP in 1971! TRUE


I'm afraid we'll have to hear more about this. :)

#122 Rob29

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Posted 07 February 2008 - 08:51

Originally posted by Risil


I'm afraid we'll have to hear more about this. :)

I have a vague recollection of this.Belgian at Spa was cancelled and there was some suggestion that the Outon Park Gold Cup could count for the championship.The Mexican GP was replaced by another non-chanpionship race at Brands Hatch.In 1972 Britain effectively had SIX F1 races,4 at Brands including the Rothmans 50,000.

#123 delboy59

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Posted 07 February 2008 - 09:16

Sorry my mistake - 1972 for OP, 1971 would have been Brands Hatch

Autosport 8 April 1971 reports

'So John Webb of Motor Circuit Developments has offered the RACB to organise the 1972 Belgian Grand Prix at Oulton Park. Had there been time to run a 1971 race the venue chosen would certainly have been Brands Hatch....'

The reason for this was because Spa was declared unsuitable for single-seater racing in 1971 as was Zolder. Nivelles wasn't ready either following the death of its promoter, Yvan Daureac in a car accident.

Incidentally, although OP ran F1 cars in Gold Cup races there was never any suggestion that it should count for World Championship points, as far as I'm aware.

#124 Lifew12

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Posted 07 February 2008 - 09:22

Originally posted by se7en_24

London has 5 international airports and the best rail and motorway links in the country.
Plus who the hell would want to go to somewhere like Birmingham or Nottingham. At least having it in London would make it an attractive destination for tourists.


Tourists don't go to Grands Prix - Grand Prix fans to to Grands Prix. A London Grand prix would arguably make the city a lot less attractive to tourists for the duration, as it would cause massive disruption.

As for London having the best motorway and rail links, you need to travel more. Not everybody wants to go to London, you know, and there is also this place called Scotland that has two fabulous cities, both more attractive; Manchester has it's merits, Liverpool too, Newcastle is beautiful and very accessible, leeds is a great place.. i could go on.

Incidentally, as for airports, Donington has one - literally - across the road.

#125 kar

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Posted 07 February 2008 - 09:31

Originally posted by Lifew12
As for London having the best motorway and rail links, you need to travel more.


I was going to say I feared for the rest of the UK if London actually has the best infrastructure in the country :)

#126 Lifew12

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Posted 07 February 2008 - 09:35

Originally posted by kar


I was going to say I feared for the rest of the UK if London actually has the best infrastructure in the country :)


You still need to fear for the rest of the country mate.....

#127 Stephen W

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Posted 07 February 2008 - 10:55

Originally posted by Lifew12


You still need to fear for the rest of the country mate.....


I certainly do, as I don't want my bit of our great country to become like "that London"! :mad:

#128 se7en_24

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Posted 07 February 2008 - 12:36

Originally posted by Lifew12


Tourists don't go to Grands Prix - Grand Prix fans to to Grands Prix. A London Grand prix would arguably make the city a lot less attractive to tourists for the duration, as it would cause massive disruption.

As for London having the best motorway and rail links, you need to travel more. Not everybody wants to go to London, you know, and there is also this place called Scotland that has two fabulous cities, both more attractive; Manchester has it's merits, Liverpool too, Newcastle is beautiful and very accessible, leeds is a great place.. i could go on.

Incidentally, as for airports, Donington has one - literally - across the road.

THE WHOLE of Scotland has a population smaller than London and is a hell of a lot more expensive to fly to, and you normally have to change in guess where - that's right, London.

I know a lot of people are jealous of London, but there is no doubt that it is the easiest city to travel to in the UK for a higher percentage of the population than anywhere else. It's also the easiest and cheapest place (by far) to get to by air from the majority of destinations.

And yes, I use the rail links quite a lot, for example this weekend I'll be travelling to Southampton to watch QPR play. I can get a direct train from London which is the same for most away venues on the fixture list. I think it's YOU that possibly needs to travel a bit more.

#129 Andy Donovan

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Posted 07 February 2008 - 15:02

Originally posted by Stephen W
I certainly do, as I don't want my bit of our great country to become like "that London"! :mad:

"Go to London, I guarantee you'll either be mugged or not appreciated. Take the train to London, stopping at Disappointment, Rejection, Backstabbing Central and Shattered Dreams Parkway." (I'm Alan Partridge series 2, in Norwich train station)

On a more serious note, I guess it depends on your definition of easy to get to. London's a long distance from a lot of the country, but you can get there on a single train or on a motorway all the way. I suspect most people would be able to get to Birmingham quicker, but they'd probably have to change trains or use small A-roads at some point.

Of course the other thing about a visit to London that I can't do elsewhere is it allows me to become a proper whippet-stroking flat-cap-wearing Northerner. £3 a pint? They can **** right off if I'm paying that.

#130 se7en_24

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Posted 07 February 2008 - 15:16

There's one problem with that though Andy. People would have to go to Birmingham.;)

#131 Group B

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Posted 07 February 2008 - 16:01

I'm telling Ensign you said that :eek: ;)

#132 kar

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Posted 07 February 2008 - 16:14

Originally posted by Andy Donovan
£3 a pint? They can **** right off if I'm paying that.


Sorry, where can you get a pint for £3? That's cheap! :)

#133 Andy Donovan

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Posted 07 February 2008 - 16:39

Originally posted by kar
Sorry, where can you get a pint for £3? That's cheap! :)

There you go, case proven. I can't even over-estimate the price of things properly.

#134 wj_gibson

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Posted 07 February 2008 - 16:40

You can get pints for less than £2 in the Chandos behind Trafalgar Sqaure.

#135 ensign14

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Posted 07 February 2008 - 17:27

Originally posted by se7en_24
There's one problem with that though Andy. People would have to go to Birmingham.;)

...the ONLY place in the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland ever to have hosted a successful international formula street race.

Not for nothing is Digbeth known as the Monte Carlo of North Europe.

#136 dannymac

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 23:00

Somebody earlier on in the thread mentioned Gibraltar, a fitting punishment to Spain over the Hamilton's family thing i reckon :D

But seriously, no to a grand prix in London, traffics bad enough as it is without being stuck behind a honda...

But really seriously we really do just need to keep our one grand prix until thats money grabbing grey haired snivelling ewok ecclestone snuffs it. (n.b. i don't actually want him dead, just away)

#137 Chiara

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Posted 09 February 2008 - 00:15

Originally posted by dannymac
Somebody earlier on in the thread mentioned Gibraltar, a fitting punishment to Spain over the Hamilton's family thing i reckon :D

But seriously, no to a grand prix in London, traffics bad enough as it is without being stuck behind a honda...

But really seriously we really do just need to keep our one grand prix until thats money grabbing grey haired snivelling ewok ecclestone snuffs it. (n.b. i don't actually want him dead, just away)


Ewoks are money grabbing? :eek: I was thinking Bernie was more like a Jawa actually - might explain his attraction to desert like oil rich states ;)

#138 repcobrabham

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Posted 09 February 2008 - 01:04

:lol: very good, somebody with photoshopping skills make this happen!