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Uddeholm Swedish Rally


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#1 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 09:11

Into snow this week-end and the big question is - Can someone take the fight to Loeb?

Amazingly its only Loeb and Elena's 100th rally start together, of which they have won 37. :eek:

Entry List

Last Year:
Pos Driver Make Time
1. Gronholm Ford 3:08:40.7
2. Loeb Citroen + 53.8
3. Hirvonen Ford + 1:41.5
4. Solberg Ford + 2:09.8
5. Carlsson Citroen + 3:37.8
6. Gardemeister Mitsubishi + 3:54.2
7. Stohl Citroen + 5:12.5
8. Atkinson Subaru + 6:14.7
9. Ostberg Subaru + 7:47.0
10. Kopecky Skoda + 7:52.5

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#2 Cinquecento

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 10:45

Two Citroen staff members, truck drivers, were caught DUI upon arriving in Sweden. The other guy was released, while the other was taken into custody, and the truck carrying one of their WRC Citroens was left in the customs as well. It postponed Citroen's original preparation schedule.

#3 Atreiu

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 12:31

Partied to hard perhaps?

#4 Fatgadget

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 12:44

Barring his C4 letting him down, I think a whitewash is on for Loeb and Elena this year. I am now off to the bookies to put my 2 quid where my mouth is! :D

#5 DMJC

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 14:46

My business partner is in Sweden, amongst other activities, he has a Rally Holiday business. He just phoned me and told me that the snow is a bit thin on the stages. He is travelling to Stockholm at the moment, and it's 2.5c and raining in the area he is in now. His view is that the rally maybe cancelled, unless (a) it stays exactly as is, or (b) there is more sustained snow.

He runs a Championship table for his clients, with Round Results, and this year, an Overall Champion Table, the client lists his/her Top 8, and points are added/deducted according to various parameters.

My list has Hirveonen as winner, and i'm 4th overall at present, after the Monte!

:clap:

#6 Suntrek

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 18:11

True that there's absolutely no snow in the Stockholm region. ;)

Don't know how much snow there is in Hagfors area (nearest town to the rally) right now, but the weather doesn't look too good for the weekend.

http://weather.msn.c...ions=wc:7514554

Rain and several plus degrees C from Friday on. Any existing snow will melt rapidly. :

#7 sterling49

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 18:50

Whatever happened to the classic events where the cars ran through snow banks and raced on frozen lakes, I always looked forward to reading about the rallies held in winter in this part of the world, Hankirally, Arctic Rally etc. Two things were always guaranteed, snow and the Saab 96 drivers would usually have a battle royal, Per Ekland, Stig Blomqvist and Tapio Raino etc, halcyon days I'd say :smoking:

#8 Pikku Pakkanen

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 20:15

Originally posted by sterling49
Whatever happened to the classic events where the cars ran through snow banks and raced on frozen lakes ... snow and the Saab 96 drivers


http://www.arcticral...rizes__img_0226

:)

#9 sterling49

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Posted 06 February 2008 - 20:56

Just superb photos, thank you! A great link, one day I will travel to see a great event like this :up:

#10 Pikku Pakkanen

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Posted 07 February 2008 - 11:12

Perhaps they should move the WRC rally a little futher north. As you can see, there's plenty of snow every year in the Arctic Lapland Rally.

http://www.arcticral...sh/gallery.html

#11 Suntrek

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Posted 07 February 2008 - 20:48

Well the rally is on, but it's going to be a soddy one.

When the first 10 cars or so have passed, the snow on the roads will have turned into a wet mass of sand, gravel and water. :(

#12 IMHO

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 01:32

Sordo got a 5 minute penalty because Citroen changed the engine after Monte.

#13 repcobrabham

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 03:28

went to the rally in 2003 :clap: absolutely awesome, the norwegian fans are hilarious! go you solberg boys!

#14 Arska

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 05:37

If Hirvonen can't beat Loeb here, the championship battle is over, unless Loeb experiences very bad luck.

#15 speedy

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 09:52

Situation after 2 stages :

1. Jari-Matti Latvala Ford 8.53,4
2. Mikko Hirvonen Ford + 3,7
3. Sebastien Loeb Citroen + 7,3
4. Mads Östberg Subaru + 7,9
5. Petter Solberg Subaru + 8,0
6. Gianluigi Galli Ford + 9,7
7. Henning Solberg Ford + 11,2
8. P-G. Andersson Suzuki + 16,0
9. Chris Atkinson Subaru + 18,5
10. Toni Gardemeister Suzuki + 21,9

#16 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 10:05

Chris Atkinson is off on stage 3 - no car damage but they are battling to get him back on the road

#17 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 10:18

made it through with front and rear bodywork damage and +15 minutes

#18 santori

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 10:23

Split times seem to be back.

#19 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 10:31

Originally posted by santori
Split times seem to be back.


yup, thank goodness - it was impossible to rely on wrc.com

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#20 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 10:41

Loeb has rolled but finished the stage??

Lost almost 3.5 mins

#21 speedy

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 11:55

situation after stage 4

1. Jari-Matti Latvala Ford 31.47,8
2. Mikko Hirvonen Ford + 23,0
3. Henning Solberg Ford + 32,3
4. Gianluigi Galli Ford + 48,3
5. Petter Solberg Subaru +1.01,7
6. Toni Gardemeister Suzuki +1.23,3
7. Matthew Wilson Ford +1.31,7

xx. Sebastien Loeb Citroen +4.05,0

#22 Cinquecento

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 11:58

After SS 4 Ford has 6 cars in top 10. The first Citroen lies 18th. Loeb, Sordo and Aava all have had difficult times and dropped out of the top 20. The leading Citroen driver is Rautenbach.

If Loeb's car is ok for the next stage, he is likely to make it into top 10 before the end of the day. But a wretched experience for Citroen so far.

Here's a good live timing service, never mind the language barrier:

http://www.mtv3.fi/u...eseuranta.shtml

#23 K-One

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 12:40

Very impressive from Latvala, beating Hirvonen with a margin. If Loeb doesn't finish in top and Hirvonen takes win, it will be mega for Hirvonen

#24 hello86

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 12:52

What happened to Loeb?

And how old is the Latvala? He seems to be a good talent.

#25 K-One

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 12:54

Loeb out!

He rolled his car, engine shut down and then he got a clutch problem when restarting. After 15 min service engine didn't have any power so he didn't even start SS 5

#26 speedy

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 13:25

Originally posted by hello86
What happened to Loeb?

And how old is the Latvala? He seems to be a good talent.


Latvala is 22 years old - he's got advantage now that he can run on a clean road - that advantage will be gone in the afternoon and tomorrow. Still very impressive. :up:

#27 Atreiu

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 16:25

Just when the world was thinking the championship was already over...
Can Loeb return tomorrow??

#28 DMJC

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 16:45

I believe so under Super Rally rules, but the car may not be usable so i guess it depends on how much damage there is engineering wise?

Unusual for Loeb to retire, but i didn't think he'd better 2nd, and i guess he probably was overdoing it a bit. He usually seems to be happy to settle for a good pts finish if things are not going that good, so i am surprised he went out, as he rarely makes errors. :(

#29 Atreiu

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 16:46

They all mess up every once in a while.
And it should be more fun with him charging to recover than cruising to win.

#30 Arska

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 18:01

Loeb already made errors during last season but luckily for him Marcus was even more error prone - as usual, unfortunately.

#31 rally man

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Posted 08 February 2008 - 21:39

Originally posted by Arska
Loeb already made errors during last season but luckily for him Marcus was even more error prone - as usual, unfortunately.


Bullshit. I am amazed how people always see these things through old glasses and stereotypes. Marcus retired twice (Japan, Ireland), Loeb retired three times (Norway, Sardinia and Japan). Loeb basicly won because he always got win on tarmac and Sordo was often second.

#32 Mauseri

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Posted 09 February 2008 - 12:15

Error proness and speed are very strictly related to each other so you shouldnt really make a difference how the drivers got the points they got. Who got more points has done a better job, keeping in mind the possible differences in the strengths of the cars.

#33 Fatgadget

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Posted 09 February 2008 - 13:30

Originally posted by rally man


Bullshit. I am amazed how people always see these things through old glasses and stereotypes. Marcus retired twice (Japan, Ireland), Loeb retired three times (Norway, Sardinia and Japan). Loeb basicly won because he always got win on tarmac and Sordo was often second.


Ummmm I think Loebs strength is that he is good on gravel as well as on tarmac. Lets be honest,Marcus wasnt that great on tarmac. I don't recall that many tarmac events Marcus won convincingly do you?

#34 rally man

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Posted 09 February 2008 - 14:30

Originally posted by Fatgadget


Ummmm I think Loebs strength is that he is good on gravel as well as on tarmac. Lets be honest,Marcus wasnt that great on tarmac. I don't recall that many tarmac events Marcus won convincingly do you?


I didn't say that Marcus was as good as Loeb on tarmac. However, last year Marcus was relatively close to Seb on dry tarmac. I would even say that Citroen C4 is the fastest tarmac car which made Marcus job against Loeb nearly impossible. It's interesting to see how Duval and Galli can drive Focus on tarmac. In Monte they didn't show any brilliance. Their performances might give some more indication about Focus' tarmac pace compared to C4. In my view Marcus became quite decent tarmac driver. I classified him as second best tarmac driver - at least on Sordo's level (on dry tarmac; wet tarmac was Marcus' weakest point).

#35 Mauseri

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Posted 09 February 2008 - 23:26

Originally posted by Fatgadget
Ummmm I think Loebs strength is that he is good on gravel as well as on tarmac. Lets be honest,Marcus wasnt that great on tarmac. I don't recall that many tarmac events Marcus won convincingly do you?

Marcus was good on tarmac still, specially for a finn who usually have less experience on the surface. He could often take that second place from tarmac specialists.

#36 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 10 February 2008 - 01:14

1 LATVALA Ford 02:03:53.7
2 HIRVONEN Ford 02:04:43.5 49.8
3 GALLI Ford 02:05:29.6 46.1
4 SOLBERG Subaru 02:06:34.6 01:05.0
5 WILSON Ford 02:08:31.3 01:56.7
6 MIKKELSEN Ford 02:08:41.8 10.5
7 SORDO Citroën 02:10:45.6 02:03.8
8 GARDEMEISTER Suzuki 02:12:43.0 01:57.4


LATVALA :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: Ford sure know how to pick 'em, what a superstar, 80% pundits would have suggested poaching Petter as first option over promoting Latvala, but as it turns out the pundits are morons and Latvala will feature heavily in the championship, with a big chance to beat Sordo in the standings for 3rd and may even give Hirvonen a tough battle for second in the championship! Stunning! :D

And also Ford domination for Citroen fans to enjoy!!! :clap: Assembling an all-star line-up in Stobart with Galli etc. sure does seem very clever indeed. :up:

The under-supported Wilson in 5th! A fine position! :up:

And again Suzuki headed to driver and manufacturer points! :clap:

#37 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 10 February 2008 - 08:05

Lovely to see Latvala showing what he is capable of, great drive from Galli as well.

Such a pity about Loeb, I think this would have been one rally where we could have seen a battle for the lead.

#38 jokuvaan

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Posted 10 February 2008 - 13:05

Latvala is now youngest race winner, 22 years, 313 days.

Previous record holder was Henry Toivonen at the age of 24.

Four Finns in top 8.

Also 1-2 win in N-group.

#39 Mauseri

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Posted 10 February 2008 - 13:10

So Jari-Matti is now a new record holder, the youngest WRC winner ever. The previous youngest winner was the late Henri Toivonen who won RAC at the age of 24 (Latvala is still 22 for a a couple of months).

IMO Loeb's best chance in Sweden without problems would have been 2nd or 3rd - he was leaving steadily behind until his crash. Usually he is able to drive in a controlled way when he is leading - if the Ford youngsters manage to keep him humble in gravel rallies, we may see more crashes when Seb must try harder....


Yeah. And the good thing for the young drivers is there is no Grönholm between so Loeb domination may not be as huge as previously thought.

Hirvonen taking the benefts of this, leading the WDC, who would have thought? Still I think Hirvonen isnt the one who is going to fight for future champiuonships with speed. He is kind of too easy going. This Latvala guy could become a tough one in the future.

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#40 pjabyrne

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Posted 10 February 2008 - 16:50

Latvala - the Lewis Hamilton of the 2008 WRC season*?





*hopefully without the prima-donna, forked-tongued, two-faced personality... **





** ...and no, I'm not Spanish - OR racist! :p

#41 yr

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Posted 10 February 2008 - 17:09

Originally posted by pjabyrne
Latvala - the Lewis Hamilton of the 2008 WRC season*?





*hopefully without the prima-donna, forked-tongued, two-faced personality... **





** ...and no, I'm not Spanish - OR racist! :p


Yeah, it remains to be seen if Hirvonen gets all upset and starts throwing toys out of the pram in near future. :lol:

#42 Hellenic tifosi

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Posted 10 February 2008 - 17:28

Originally posted by me, 5 years ago, at the Acropolis Rally thread
Also, can anybody inform me about JARI-MATTI LATVALA? He is a Finn and he was driving a Ford Focus, ending up 10th in the final classification. I don't know what happened with him, but I guess that someone told him that keeping the car straight is bad for his health :up: He was flicking the car twice before entering the corners and the crowds were going mad! I saw him at only 7 corners, but my friends who were watching other stages told me the same things.



I am really happy that the young gun with the spectacular style that I was priviledged to watch in his first ever WRC drive evolved into a race winning driver.

Let's hope that Latvala brings some fresh air into the problematic WRC series, which is getting worse every year.

#43 speedy

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Posted 10 February 2008 - 17:46

Originally posted by Hellenic tifosi


I am really happy that the young gun with the spectacular style that I was priviledged to watch in his first ever WRC drive evolved into a race winning driver.

Let's hope that Latvala brings some fresh air into the problematic WRC series, which is getting worse every year.


:up: Completely agree - I too remenber that rally and his spectacular debut at wrc level - he was barely old enough to get a driving license back then :lol:

BTW there's a saying in Finland " If your car is not sideways, it's not under control"

#44 Mauseri

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Posted 10 February 2008 - 21:56

Originally posted by speedy
BTW there's a saying in Finland " If your car is not sideways, it's not under control"

It's a fact: car which isnt sideways isnt being controlled.

#45 repcobrabham

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Posted 11 February 2008 - 01:59

aah, the inverse logic of rallying :up: dirty brown tracks bordered by clumpy ice :down: damn global warming

#46 Hellenic tifosi

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Posted 11 February 2008 - 17:08

And this is how Latvala approached his first ever WRC event participation, 5 years ago:

http://xs.to/xs.php?...iapo_311437.jpg

:up: :up:

#47 sterling49

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Posted 11 February 2008 - 18:10

Originally posted by Hellenic tifosi
And this is how Latvala approached his first ever WRC event participation, 5 years ago:

http://xs.to/xs.php?...iapo_311437.jpg

:up: :up:


He reminds me, and seems to be, a bit in the "Ari Vatanen/Marku Alen" mould, who both burst on the rally scene and made lasting impressions, Ari, usually on the bent FoMoCo bodywork, and Alen falling to nearly last place, in the days of the "old" R.A.C. (1973 IIRC) and then hauling the RS back up the leader board, heroes, both of them :up: Welcome Latvala, you are in the right team :up:

#48 Cinquecento

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Posted 11 February 2008 - 19:44

Latvala's age shows in the errors he is prone to make. However, once he learns to hold his horses, he will be a force to be reckoned with. His approach seems opposed to Hirvonen's who spent many years building up consistent speed. It's been such a slow process that I've lost confidence in Hirvonen being really able to step it up. That's why Latvala feels so exciting in comparison. I hope he just blossomed in Sweden and takes off.

#49 sterling49

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Posted 11 February 2008 - 20:49

Originally posted by Cinquecento
Latvala's age shows in the errors he is prone to make. However, once he learns to hold his horses, he will be a force to be reckoned with. His approach seems opposed to Hirvonen's who spent many years building up consistent speed. It's been such a slow process that I've lost confidence in Hirvonen being really able to step it up. That's why Latvala feels so exciting in comparison. I hope he just blossomed in Sweden and takes off.


That is exactly the point that I am making, Stuart Turner (then FoMoCo Comps Supremo) opined at a forum in 1975, that Vatanen wrote off many cars, but whenever he did, the tell tail was at maximum revs! They seem to find their limit quickly (at a cost!) and then carry their speed easily, I have not been too impressed with Hirvonen,he should be challenging Loeb all of the time.

#50 Panch

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Posted 11 February 2008 - 21:06

Latvala is 22 years old, rally drivers can still race when they are +40. He really have bright future ahead of him :up: