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Cars 22 and 23 and garage number 5


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#1 rearwheelskid00

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 13:40

According to this report, the two Mclarens will bear the numbers 22 and 23 and will not be at the end of the pit-lane.
I don't understand. Rules are rules, but why the numbers 22 and 23? In my view, this would be particulary unfair to Kovalainen, if the reports are true.

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#2 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 13:44

It's just a number, it's not fair or unfair to have 23. It doesn't mean anything.

#3 le chat noir

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 13:45

what's unfair to hk? why should he care what number he has?

strange to be backing down on garage, but if we want a decent fight, probably best to let them have semi decent facilities i guess, and bernie is all about the show. quite amusing to see renault object - presumably they'll pressure the renault powered rbr to as well.

#4 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 13:47

its more of a joke that they displace teams that weren't caught cheating in the pecking order - once again Dollars talk.

#5 F1Obsession

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 13:48

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever
its more of a joke that they displace teams that weren't caught cheating in the pecking order - once again Dollars talk.


It's more of a joke that Renault were left off the hook.

#6 Chiara

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 13:49

I'm inclined to think it is just speculation at the moment because neither Pitpass or Autosport (who are both pretty reliable) seem to have picked up on the subject, despite this story being around for days.

#7 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 13:50

Originally posted by F1Obsession


It's more of a joke that Renault were left off the hook.


WFT does that have to do with this thread troll?

#8 Modern Lover

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 13:52

Originally posted by Gilles4Ever


WFT does that have to do with this thread troll?


It has everything to do with your first comment, troll.

#9 wj_gibson

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 13:54

Renault were "let off the hook" because they supplied everything to the FIA the moment the issue came to light, rather than denying it to all and sundry, only to be caught out later.

On the thread topic, I think Mcaren should be given the garage that reflects their position in the constructors' championship from last year, i.e. the final one.

#10 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 13:56

Originally posted by Modern Lover


It has everything to do with your first comment, troll.


The team that finishes 1st in the WCC gets the first pit, the team that finishes last gets the last pit.

Yet now because it's McLaren who are meant to occupy the last pit its not good for the show and they get moved up.

You really think its fair on the teams who are going to be shunted down to ever crappier pit boxes?

Edit: And if you want to label Renault cheats they aren't being displaced.

#11 k1ngy

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 14:01

Are these pit garages really that bad and is that the real reason the likes of Spyker etc are always at the back i don think so.
I am a fan of Mclaren and i do not think it is fair that they have managed to get a helping hand in this decision ( I have to say this as if it was Ferrari i would be moaning)

#12 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 14:03

Originally posted by k1ngy
Are these pit garages really that bad and is that the real reason the likes of Spyker etc are always at the back i don think so.
I am a fan of Mclaren and i do not think it is fair that they have managed to get a helping hand in this decision ( I have to say this as if it was Ferrari i would be moaning)


From what I understand at the European rounds the pit boxes at the end of the pit lane are limited by the space available for the transporters so McLaren wouldn't be able to get mini Paragon in and that would be a PR nightmare for their sponsors.

#13 F1Obsession

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 14:04

I would be happier if McLaren just voluntarity gave up on this offer or the season 2008 altogether. Their image just keeps degrading with news such as this.

#14 rearwheelskid00

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 14:18

It reads like the FIA are punishing the team/ drivers by issuing them these numbers. But why? Is it a "you'll have these numbers if you want a higher pit-box" deal?
I agree it's an unconfirmed report and nothing can be trusted just yet. If it is true, then the FIA are giving McLaren preference over any other team who may want, or need a higher pit-box.

#15 DCult

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 14:37

Originally posted by F1Obsession
I would be happier if McLaren just voluntarity gave up on this offer or the season 2008 altogether. Their image just keeps degrading with news such as this.



Max is very smart and makes it look like he's helping McLaren with the pitlane position and antiracism campaigns and shit, also with hypocritical comments such as "i'm sure Lewis will win many championships", (but only if he's not in Ron's team), but the truth is that he stole 100million from McLaren to pay to Ferrari for something that has existed in F1 for decades, forced all teams to use their tyres, and will do absolutely nothing when there is a Ferrari domination this season. On the contrary, he imposes budget caps so that noone can close the gap. Watch Ferrari dominate the season with their illegal active third damper all season, only to get it banned after the other teams have something similar and Ferrari is WCC and WDC.

#16 Schumeister

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 14:38

As I understand it, the team that has won last years constructors championship gets to choose which put box they would like to ocupy on a GP weekend. They will of course choose the one which gives them the most advantage for the race weekend. At some venues this may be the first pit box at others it may be the middle one.
I'm will not be suprised if this story is true, I predicted as much last year based on the fact that F1 is becoming more about sponsers than it is about the racing.

I feel sorry for the fifth placed teams and below, as they are being handed a penalty because they are not bringing in as much money to Bernie as Mclaren.

#17 Schumeister

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 14:40

Originally posted by DCult



Max is very smart and makes it look like he's helping McLaren with the pitlane position and antiracism campaigns and shit, also with hypocritical comments such as "i'm sure Lewis will win many championships", (but only if he's not in Ron's team), but the truth is that he stole 100million from McLaren to pay to Ferrari for something that has existed in F1 for decades, forced all teams to use their tyres, and will do absolutely nothing when there is a Ferrari domination this season. On the contrary, he imposes budget caps so that noone can close the gap. Watch Ferrari dominate the season with their illegal active third damper all season, only to get it banned after the other teams have something similar and Ferrari is WCC and WDC.


Get a life :

#18 For:Sure

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 14:45

I'm not sure about the pit position (I too had understood them to be at the crappy end of the pits) but regarding car number, and to quote Morrissey of The Smiths fame - what difference does it make?

I remember a certain driver had no.27 on his car...and it didn't do him any harm.*


*It seems reasonable to conclude his car's number had anything to do with his untimely demise.




Originally posted by DCult



Max is very smart and makes it look like he's helping McLaren with the pitlane position and antiracism campaigns and shit, also with hypocritical comments such as "i'm sure Lewis will win many championships", (but only if he's not in Ron's team), but the truth is that he stole 100million from McLaren to pay to Ferrari for something that has existed in F1 for decades, forced all teams to use their tyres, and will do absolutely nothing when there is a Ferrari domination this season. On the contrary, he imposes budget caps so that noone can close the gap. Watch Ferrari dominate the season with their illegal active third damper all season, only to get it banned after the other teams have something similar and Ferrari is WCC and WDC.


Talking of banning - how much do you pay the Atlas mods to keep you from being banned? :confused:

#19 Jackman

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 14:47

Teams have changed pitboxes before, including McLaren: it's hardly an earth shattering deal. McLaren can't fit the Death Star into the final pit area, so it was pretty much always going to happen, and it wouldn't be much of a surprise to find out that Bernie made a bit of money out of the deal.

And it's not as though McLaren didn't beat all the teams from fifth back hands down, as they've all admitted: every team bar Ferrari has acknowledged that McLaren finished above them in all bar the point score.

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#20 DCult

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 14:48

Originally posted by Schumeister


Get a life :



I have a life. I'm waiting for Max to die and watch Ferrari never win a championship again. :love:

#21 Jackman

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 14:48

Originally posted by For:Sure
I remember a certain driver had no.27 on his car...and it didn't do him any harm.*




*It seems reasonable to conclude his car's number had anything to do with his untimely demise.

Alan Jones is alive, surely?

#22 For:Sure

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 14:52

Originally posted by Jackman
Alan Jones is alive, surely?

:D

#23 For:Sure

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 14:53

Originally posted by DCult



I have a life. I'm waiting for Max to die and watch Ferrari never win a championship again. :love:

You call that "a life"?

#24 Schumeister

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 14:56

Originally posted by DCult



I have a life. I'm waiting for Max to die


I think you have some serious issues you need to deal with, you'll be lucky if this doesn't get you banned from here. (and we will be very lucky if it does!)

#25 DCult

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 14:56

Originally posted by For:Sure
I'm not sure about the pit position (I too had understood them to be at the crappy end of the pits) but regarding car number, and to quote Morrissey of The Smiths fame - what difference does it make?

I remember a certain driver had no.27 on his car...and it didn't do him any harm.*


*It seems reasonable to conclude his car's number had anything to do with his untimely demise.






Talking of banning - how much do you pay the Atlas mods to keep you from being banned? :confused:



I know that Atlas was led by Ferrari's propaganda machine since the spygate, posting anti McLaren fanfare news all the time, but this thing I posted is truly my opinion and if you don't like then don't read it.

#26 For:Sure

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 14:59

Originally posted by DCult



I know that Atlas was led by Ferrari's propaganda machine since the spygate, posting anti McLaren fanfare news all the time, but this thing I posted is truly my opinion and if you don't like then don't read it.

I would say quite the opposite...several Ferrari fans were banned for posting a fairly balanced/restrained pro-Ferrari viewpoint, whilst rabid pro-McLaren flamers like yourself somehow managed to continue spreading your oh-so-blatant vitriol.

So, please tell us, how do you do it? Where should I be sending my brown envelopes full of used twenties?

I think the truth is that the Mods do their best to show no bias, but, if you're a Ferrari fan (as I am) or if you're a McLaren fan (as you are) then we tend to see bias in the neutral where there is none.

#27 DCult

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 14:59

Originally posted by For:Sure

You call that "a life"?


Sure. McLaren will only win when Max retires, and that will come when he's physically unable to do his mission. But being the lunatic that he is, he's already lined up that disgusting French dwarf to replace him.

#28 steelyman

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 15:00

Originally posted by DCult



Max is very smart and makes it look like he's helping McLaren with the pitlane position and antiracism campaigns and shit, also with hypocritical comments such as "i'm sure Lewis will win many championships", (but only if he's not in Ron's team), but the truth is that he stole 100million from McLaren to pay to Ferrari for something that has existed in F1 for decades, forced all teams to use their tyres, and will do absolutely nothing when there is a Ferrari domination this season. On the contrary, he imposes budget caps so that noone can close the gap. Watch Ferrari dominate the season with their illegal active third damper all season, only to get it banned after the other teams have something similar and Ferrari is WCC and WDC.


excellent post! very entertaining. you just forgot:

Lewis is the peoples champion.......fly like the wind......senna is right beside you.........etc etc

#29 For:Sure

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 15:02

Originally posted by DCult


Sure. McLaren will only win when Max retires, and that will come when he's physically unable to do his mission.

OK - so you were unborn in 98 and 99 then? Yeah - that figures. :rotfl:

#30 DCult

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 15:11

Originally posted by For:Sure

OK - so you were unborn in 98 and 99 then? Yeah - that figures. :rotfl:



Mosley didn't hate Dennis that much back then. And he banned McLaren's innovation that year, remember? It was after the delay of the concorde agreement that his dislike of Ron Dennis has gone downhill. BTW I haven't missed a race since 1993. Maybe you watched your first race in 2000 and adore Schumacher the Saint, too.

#31 Orin

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 15:15

Great news about the garage if true, and well done to Ecclestone for saving McLaren the embarrassment. It seems fitting as McLaren cooperated when FOM/FIA decided to sweep the Renault espionage case under the carpet.

#32 DCult

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 15:21

Originally posted by Orin
Great news about the garage if true, and well done to Ecclestone for saving McLaren the embarrassment. It seems fitting as McLaren cooperated when FOM/FIA decided to sweep the Renault espionage case under the carpet.


McLaren didn't cooperate in the Renault case. It succeeded in it's mission which was disclosing the hypocrisy and the corruption in the FIA both in that case and in the fuel temperature case.

#33 Orin

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 15:35

Originally posted by DCult


McLaren didn't cooperate in the Renault case. It succeeded in it's mission which was disclosing the hypocrisy and the corruption in the FIA both in that case and in the fuel temperature case.


It didn't complain when the FIA made the most cursory of inspections and passed no comment when the WMSC imposed no sanction, both very helpful when Ecclestone was in the process of shushing all the teams to ensure no spygate 3 would occur.

#34 Mrv

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 15:53

Originally posted by DCult



I have a life. I'm waiting for Max to die and watch Ferrari never win a championship again. :love:



Never knew that Max was a designer at Ferrari and on their payroll. :rolleyes:

#35 Makarias

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 16:06

I might be getting blind or something, but I failed to find the quoted piece in TS?

#36 DCult

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 16:34

Originally posted by Mrv



Never knew that Max was a designer at Ferrari and on their payroll. :rolleyes:


You can call him a designer for Ferrari since he designs and changes rules after Ferrari's taste, and as for the second, opinions are divided.

#37 kismet

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 16:37

I might be getting blind or something, but I failed to find the quoted piece in TS?

Clicky

#38 cek

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 16:42

mclaren finished least in 2007 championship and this year must be in last box of pitlane.simply

#39 undersquare

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 16:59

Originally posted by cek
mclaren finished least in 2007 championship and this year must be in last box of pitlane.simply


FoM allocate the garages, not the FIA.

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#40 Owen

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 17:03

Originally posted by undersquare


FoM allocate the garages, not the FIA.


Also, the garage situation was never highlighted as a specific part of the penalty imposed on the team. People just made assumptions on this. I think the team has probably suffered enough for the whole sorry episode.

#41 Makarias

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 18:02

Thanks, kismet. I didn't think the item would have been over a week old.

#42 lukywill

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 18:23


mclaren are last. they should be give the last box.

#43 lukywill

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 18:26

no doubt crime as a lot of people agreeing on it´s basics.

money talks better and lauder than fia.

a shame.

#44 jeremy durward

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Posted 13 February 2008 - 20:58

does anyone have the rule which says the team that finishes last must have the last pit box? my understanding is that the teams chose their pit based on constructors championship finishing position, they are not allocated.

#45 metz

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 00:19

Originally posted by jeremy durward
... my understanding is that the teams chose their pit based on constructors championship finishing position, they are not allocated.

Yes, that's what we believe.
I did a pit walk through one, and our guide (a McLaren team member) explained it as just that.

#46 Mat

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 00:40

Originally posted by Jackman
Teams have changed pitboxes before, including McLaren: it's hardly an earth shattering deal. McLaren can't fit the Death Star into the final pit area, so it was pretty much always going to happen, and it wouldn't be much of a surprise to find out that Bernie made a bit of money out of the deal.

And it's not as though McLaren didn't beat all the teams from fifth back hands down, as they've all admitted: every team bar Ferrari has acknowledged that McLaren finished above them in all bar the point score.


I'd imagine all the teams that McLaren have 'jumped' will be compensated in some way? Is there any word on this yet? It makes sense as teams like STR, Spyker, Super Aguri probably wouldn't even be able to fill up the extra room they would have even if they wanted to. They would certainly be better off with compensation anyway.

And you mention that teams have changed pitboxes before. I can't think of any...can you remind me of some examples?

#47 Mat

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 00:41

Originally posted by For:Sure
I would say quite the opposite...several Ferrari fans were banned for posting a fairly balanced/restrained pro-Ferrari viewpoint, whilst rabid pro-McLaren flamers like yourself somehow managed to continue spreading your oh-so-blatant vitriol.

So, please tell us, how do you do it? Where should I be sending my brown envelopes full of used twenties?


So im assuming, considering your knowledge of the past and your 'join date' that you've been banned before.

So... who were you? ;)

#48 Gilles4Ever

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 08:39

Originally posted by Mat


So im assuming, considering your knowledge of the past and your 'join date' that you've been banned before.

So... who were you? ;)


and banned again? ;)

#49 miguevaio

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Posted 14 February 2008 - 22:34

Originally posted by DCult


Sure. McLaren will only win when Ron retires, and that will come when he's physically unable to do his mission. But being the lunatic that he is, he's already lined up that disgusting French dwarf (Napoleon?) to replace him.

Now I would say that is perfectly possible :drunk: :stoned: :kiss:

#50 Craven Morehead

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Posted 15 February 2008 - 17:20

Originally posted by steelyman


excellent post! very entertaining. you just forgot:

Lewis is the peoples champion.......fly like the wind......senna is right beside you.........etc etc


:lol: hey, I kinda miss that guy...