90 replies to this topic

[lukywill]

for sure this guys are attending other possibilities. they can run the office as long as they like with marlboro sponsor and still get a lot of money.

for the campaign: a lot as been said about carnival. a lot as been said about car racing a issue for white people for mighty several decades.

this new campaign or complain smells rats to me. hypocrisy at it´s best.

maybe we should make a campaign against old stylish english hypocrite's and cancel at once racing.

because racing and money goes well. or because money mix with racing does make some people aware of tobacco ban.

[For:Sure]

Pearls of wisdom, every time...

That said, I am a bit puzzled by the FIA's 'Anti-Racism campaign'. It does not seem to me that motorsports has a "racism" problem of note. I think the FIA were correct to strongly condemn those responsible at the recent test, and to demand strong action from the circuit, but that's it - job done. I cannot see any purpose in continuing to highlight the issue...unless perhaps the issue re-surfaces.

Racism in all forms os obviously abhorant to most reasonable people, but whereas, say, football, which obviously has had a sustained problem in the past and the football authorities were right to have a campaign on the issue, I do not believe F1 in particular or motorsports generally has an inherent racism problem, so I wonder who the FIA's campaign is supposed to be being aimed at.

[tifosi]

Originally posted by For:Sure
Pearls of wisdom, every time.

104 english language words typed in some random sequence.

[WACKO]

Originally posted by lukywill
for sure this guys are attending other possibilities. they can run the office as long as they like with marlboro sponsor and still get a lot of money.

for the campaign: a lot as been said about carnival. a lot as been said about car racing a issue for white people for mighty several decades.

this new campaign or complain smells rats to me. hypocrisy at it´s best.

maybe we should make a campaign against old stylish english hypocrite's and cancel at once racing.

because racing and money goes well. or because money mix with racing does make some people aware of tobacco ban.

Seriously, I think this is an example of doing too much. It's bad behavior. Issue warnings. We're dealing with grown-up people who should know about wrong or right in this respect. I don't think a campaign will help much against the small group of rioters

[MarkWRX]

I tend to agree with Wacko, and I say that as a fan of McLaren and Lewis. I don't think I have ever witnessed racism in F1 - McLaren has several blacks on the race team, as do some of the other teams, Ferrari included.

What happened in Spain was racist, but not pervasive. Since, from what I have read, that kind of racist behavior is against the law in Spain, perhaps the FIA should invest it's time and money in helping to identify those people responsible.

But since the "race" cat is out of the bag, I don't think it will stop in Spain. Alonso has a lot of fans and some of them might want to engage in that kind of behavior in other places. So the FIA should monitor the crowds, especially on Friday and Saturday, in the stands opposite the McLaren garages and take rapid action against people who engage in racist actions. Kick 'em out of the track.

[Matt Hughes]

To be honest, it's probably better to do too much than too little. I agree that it's the smallest possible percentage of people who do these kinds of things, but making the issue a big deal and lodging it in the mind of the millions of real Spanish, Chinese and every other country's F1 fans will, in my opinion, help to get the issue policed by the proper fans themselves.

That's what's worked well in football in this country. The Kick Racism campaign has stirred the 99.9% of decent match-attending fans to make sure that the 0.1% who cause issues don't get away with it.

[polymath]

Maybe they want to aim it at some of the least culturally integrated countries on the face of the planet which also happen to be the newest venues in F1, they should also delve into a human rights violation campaign which could also coincide with the newest venues on the F1 calender.

[miniman]

and it is ironic to see McLaren jumping on the anti-racism bandwagon; aren't they the ones who made some wide-sweeping comments about Latin drivers?

[AFCA]

A good initiative in itself but a bit exaggerating (overreacting) perhaps...

[For:Sure]

Originally posted by miniman
and it is ironic to see McLaren jumping on the anti-racism bandwagon; aren't they the ones who made some wide-sweeping comments about Latin drivers?

I really wouldn't equate Dennis's generalisations with racism. He might be a robot-esque egomaniac who still personally fails to admit that McLaren acted in a deeply inappropriate manner with Stepneygate, (see, I'm no fan of the man), but for you to suggest that saying something akin to "Latin drivers can be hot-headed" is racist is to take over-sensitivity to an extreme degree.

[Nukle]

Another example of spanish racism

[miguevaio]

Originally posted by Nukle
Another example of spanish racism

http://www.xpb.cc/th...0UXDFNK_450.jpg

yes, Spanish people should learn from more civilizated fans.

http://img412.images.../senna92rq0.jpg

[undersquare]

Originally posted by miguevaio


yes, Spanish people should learn from more civilizated fans.

http://img412.images.../senna92rq0.jpg

Fair comment, but on here at least we all agree this is wrong, surely? Even HSJ was 'taken out of context' .

Mansell attracted some awful "fans". What an embarassment he was.

[miguevaio]

Originally posted by undersquare


Fair comment, but on here at least we all agree this is wrong, surely? Even HSJ was 'taken out of context' .

Mansell attracted some awful "fans". What an embarassment he was.

yep ;)

just amazed for this witch hunt, and amazed for what it is allowed to say here and what not

[black magic]

unnecessary

whilst some of the spanish support used racist language their beef was personal, and not related to hamiltons colour.

everyone needs to get over themselves, maclaren esp.

[undersquare]

Originally posted by miguevaio


yep ;)

just amazed for this witch hunt, and amazed for what it is allowed to say here and what not

For me, the intent is what matters, and this "black family" was completely misunderstood by a lot of Brits, because here it would be completely different in meaning. Personally I always believed Toni, it was a convincing apology and explanation.

The media have made a big story out of it, they were just waiting IMO for something involving Hammy and race.

As for on here, forums tempt people to post something contradictory sometimes, and with 200 or so people some percentage is bound to be bigoted, whether towards a nation or anything else.

But maybe it's good for Max to send a message, anyway, and hopefully that will be the end of it.

[miguevaio]

Originally posted by undersquare


For me, the intent is what matters, and this "black family" was completely misunderstood by a lot of Brits, because here it would be completely different in meaning. Personally I always believed Toni, it was a convincing apology and explanation.

The media have made a big story out of it, they were just waiting IMO for something involving Hammy and race.

As for on here, forums tempt people to post something contradictory sometimes, and with 200 or so people some percentage is bound to be bigoted, whether towards a nation or anything else.

But maybe it's good for Max to send a message, anyway, and hopefully that will be the end of it.

Of course, media have made and are still doing a big business of it, and biggest the hype, biggest the income, even the named "serious".

About bigots and forums, I know it is like that. I usually read this forum though I don't use to write almost ever. What surprised (not positively) me was to have on Sunday deleted a thread, with above average quality comments and whithout the typical BS, completely deleted , meanwhile I still am reading a lot of BS about the same issue. The only thing changed, IMHO, was that the focus was made on the press instead of in the Spanish fans. So let me still to stay amazed ;)

[Rob]

Originally posted by miguevaio


yes, Spanish people should learn from more civilizated fans.

http://img412.images.../senna92rq0.jpg

That is terrible. I'd never seen that before but I'm in total agreement that this sort of behaviour is disgusting. Everywhere has its idiots.

The idiots in the picture even got their own flag the wrong way round!

[miniman]

Originally posted by For:Sure

I really wouldn't equate Dennis's generalisations with racism. He might be a robot-esque egomaniac who still personally fails to admit that McLaren acted in a deeply inappropriate manner with Stepneygate, (see, I'm no fan of the man), but for you to suggest that saying something akin to "Latin drivers can be hot-headed" is racist is to take over-sensitivity to an extreme degree.

I am not implying that Ron is racist I merely tried to point out, inadequately, I admit, that Ron will take advantage of any opportunity if it benefits his team. Sometimes his comments backfire, in this instance I would have felt more comfortable had he remained silent.

I think this whole campaign against "racism" is over the top, some society ills can't be solved by enacting legislation that will only punish the majority of decent people for the actions of a rowdy few. A few words by Lewis Hamilton acknowledging that the majority of Spanish fans are fair minded and decent would quickly diffuse this situation and would earn him more respect than any possible ill-advised morality campaign by the likes of FIA

[Ham's Cranes Ltd]

Originally posted by Nukle
Another example of spanish racism

http://www.xpb.cc/th...0UXDFNK_450.jpg

Tomorrow in british sensationalist press:

RACISM ROW CONTINUES IN SPAIN

[jonpollak]

Originally posted by lukywill
for sure this guys are attending other possibilities. they can run the office as long as they like with marlboro sponsor and still get a lot of money.

for the campaign: a lot as been said about carnival. a lot as been said about car racing a issue for white people for mighty several decades.

this new campaign or complain smells rats to me. hypocrisy at it´s best.

maybe we should make a campaign against old stylish english hypocrite's and cancel at once racing.

because racing and money goes well. or because money mix with racing does make some people aware of tobacco ban.

Ah HA...
I finally get it
This babble comes from that room where they have all those monkeys sitting behind typewriters creating selections for Oprah's book club

For the last time..JUST WRITE IN PORTUGUESE!!!
sheesh
Jp

[McGuire]

Originally posted by For:Sure
Pearls of wisdom, every time...

Racism in all forms os obviously abhorant to most reasonable people, but whereas, say, football, which obviously has had a sustained problem in the past and the football authorities were right to have a campaign on the issue, I do not believe F1 in particular or motorsports generally has an inherent racism problem, so I wonder who the FIA's campaign is supposed to be being aimed at.

The campaign obviously is aimed at idiots like those who showed up in blackface in an attempt to debase and humiliate Lewis Hamilton, that's who. You can hardly deny there is racism as there it is right in front of you. But your position seems to be that since all 5,000 spectators were not in blackface, the problem is insufficiently widespread for such an initiative. Congratulations: you are the white guy who doesn't get it. No offense meant, I'm only here to help.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by miniman


A few words by Lewis Hamilton acknowledging that the majority of Spanish fans are fair minded and decent would quickly diffuse this situation and would earn him more respect than any possible ill-advised morality campaign by the likes of FIA

Yes, Lewis should apologize immediately for causing the white people any embarrassment.


I can't believe what I am reading in this thread. This is 2008, right?

[big x]

Originally posted by Nukle
Another example of spanish racism

http://www.xpb.cc/th...0UXDFNK_450.jpg

Actually,the picture shows the FIA stance may be working, those 200 or so who were hurling abuse where noticeable by their absence.

adam

[For:Sure]

Originally posted by McGuire

Congratulations: you are the white guy who doesn't get it. No offense meant, I'm only here to help.

Thanks for the patronising response.

My point remains the same - a single incident by a small number of people, however abhorant and undesirable - does not warrant a "campaign". If we see a repeat of it, perhaps it does. I am absolutely for prosecuting racism whereever it rears its ugly head, but I happen to disagree with the scale of the FIA's apparent response.

I shall not presume to know whether you "get" that or not...

[volumenzero]

Originally posted by big x


Actually,the picture shows the FIA stance may be working, those 200 or so who were hurling abuse where noticeable by their absence.

adam

200? .... that was what appeared in the British press? ... then it's worse than I thought ...

they were 4 or 5 people who where shouting racist chants ... not 200 ...

incredible ... what's next for the British press?

[David M. Kane]

It wouldn't hurt if FA stood up and said "I don't support this kind of behavior". It would a very good PR move that would show real leadership and real human strength.

[Jack-the-Lad]

Absolutely ridiculous. Perhaps this is to divert attention from FIA's inept and incompetent execution of its actual mission. Racism exists in the hearts of human beings. I really wonder why the FIA thinks it has the ability or the brief to do anything about it.

Jack.

[big x]

Originally posted by volumenzero


200? .... that was what appeared in the British press? ... then it's worse than I thought ...

they were 4 or 5 people who where shouting racist chants ... not 200 ...

incredible ... what's next for the British press?

The incident was first reported in AS and Marca and that was the figure I saw quoted there on the day it happened.
Why are you in such denial, trying to rewrite history and blame everyone else other than those responsible !


adam

[Suntrek]

Originally posted by big x


Actually,the picture shows the FIA stance may be working, those 200 or so who were hurling abuse where noticeable by their absence.

adam

Of course.

Or did you think the few offenders from Barcelona would travel all the way to Jerez? Have you any idea how big Spain is? It's a distance of more than 1000 km.

AFAIK there were no "racism incidents" January test in Jerez either, so give me one good reason why there should be any now?

Sure thing is it has got nothing to do with Max' crusade.

[big x]

Originally posted by Suntrek


Of course.

Or did you think the few offenders from Barcelona would travel all the way to Jerez? Have you any idea how big Spain is? It's a distance of more than 1000 km.

AFAIK there were no "racism incidents" January test in Jerez either, so give me one good reason why there should be any now?

Sure thing is it has got nothing to do with Max' crusade.

Yes, thank you I have travelled around Spain. Easy to get to from southern Britain. I take my motorcycle on the Plymouth to Santander ferry.
You underestimate fanatical Alonso supporters, they are prepared to travel thousands of miles to China to unfurl their crane posters:eek:
Funnily enough yesterday I was sitting in the sun my Garden in a t-shirt with the temperature at 18 c and wondering if the British teams might do a bit more testing at home in the future. It's been warmer here than on some of the Spanish test days.

adam

[pingu666]

seems kinda silly to me tbh, it also raises issues of free speech, you should have the freedom to say things, even if they are wrong/stupid etc.

mind you, i do think the fans should stop hating on other drivers, its not good to fill your life with anger and hate.

rabid immature hating fanboys make me not want to visit somewhere (in this case spain), and ive been watching the bbc4 series on spanish art/buildings, and dang theres some epic buildings in spain i wanna see

[PassWind]

Originally posted by pingu666
seems kinda silly to me tbh, it also raises issues of free speech, you should have the freedom to say things, even if they are wrong/stupid etc.

mind you, i do think the fans should stop hating on other drivers, its not good to fill your life with anger and hate.

rabid immature hating fanboys make me not want to visit somewhere (in this case spain), and ive been watching the bbc4 series on spanish art/buildings, and dang theres some epic buildings in spain i wanna see

You do have certain rights that while recognised by a world body they may not be guaranteed regionally however, Spain would probably be one of those places that does.

What you are not free to do is act in a manner whether that be by vocalisation or demonstration that hurts or damages the feelings of a particular group of people with malicous intent.

Now to those who said you cannot expect the FIA to act on a few cases wrong, it is their duty to protect and its McLarens RESPONSIBILITY to PROTECT its employee's by all reasonable means and that would be through the FIA. The FIA would be required to provide and environment for the conduct of F1 racing that doesn't harm the competitors through reasonable means. In testing I would say mainly FIA and in season FOM.

Bernie has a repsonsibility and risks being held accountable if he did not act in a way that offers better protection of the drivers, so life bans and immediate ejections are quite suitable. If these Fans are Alonso fans looking for some sort of cheap shots then all I have is a new adjective for them, ********.

[MarkWRX]

Originally posted by miniman
and it is ironic to see McLaren jumping on the anti-racism bandwagon; aren't they the ones who made some wide-sweeping comments about Latin drivers?

Yeah, I agree for For:Sure (is he a Massa fan?). The first time I read Dennis' quotes about Latin temperament I was amazed, since that kind of thing here in the US would probably result in an appointment with your Human Resources representative. But he's not the only one that I have read about making those kind of stereotypical generalizations. I have seen that from LdM (cold Germans), Sir F. Williams (Latin temperament again) and a few others.

Stereotyping perhaps, but not racist.

Besides, Montoya was hotheaded.

[Gareth]

Originally posted by pingu666
seems kinda silly to me tbh, it also raises issues of free speech, you should have the freedom to say things, even if they are wrong/stupid etc.

Bloody hell. I think McGuire summed it up best: "I can't believe what I am reading in this thread. This is 2008, right?"

[Gareth]

Originally posted by miguevaio


yes, Spanish people should learn from more civilizated fans.

http://img412.images.../senna92rq0.jpg

Yep, British "fans" have been offensive once. Therefore racism by some Spanish "fans" is okay. Awesome logic

Or alternatively, the "fan" in your picture is a complete idiot who ought to be condemed. The racist fans at the Barcelona test also ought to be condemed.

Yep, think I'll go with option 2.

[Gareth]

Originally posted by miniman
I think this whole campaign against "racism" is over the top, some society ills can't be solved by enacting legislation that will only punish the majority of decent people for the actions of a rowdy few.

In what way is an anti racism campaign "punish[ing] the majority of decent people"? Just to help you out, if you feel you are being punished by an anti racism campaign then you probably aren't one of the decent people.

Originally posted by miniman
A few words by Lewis Hamilton acknowledging that the majority of Spanish fans are fair minded and decent would quickly diffuse this situation and would earn him more respect than any possible ill-advised morality campaign by the likes of FIA.

Completely agree with McGuire's response to you. But, just for your info, McLaren have stated the following:

"We fervently hope that the racist behaviour of a tiny minority of so-called F1 fans at a recent Barcelona test was an isolated incident that will not be repeated elsewhere. As we have already made clear, McLaren-Mercedes have raced and tested on Spanish circuits for many years, and everyone connected with the team regards Spain and the Spanish people with great affection, Lewis Hamilton included."

[miguevaio]

Originally posted by Gareth

Yep, British "fans" have been offensive once. Therefore racism by some Spanish "fans" is okay. Awesome logic

Or alternatively, the "fan" in your picture is a complete idiot who ought to be condemed. The racist fans at the Barcelona test also ought to be condemed.

Yep, think I'll go with option 2.

me too, I pick the second one. Good we agree in this

Just I won't use that picture to make a witch hunt against fans of a determinated country, asking for races to be banned there and so forth...

[Gareth]

Originally posted by miguevaio


me too, I pick the second one. Good we agree in this

Just I won't use that picture to make a witch hunt against fans of a determinated country, asking for races to be banned there and so forth...

I'm pleased

[lukywill]

Originally posted by jonpollak


Ah HA...
I finally get it
This babble comes from that room where they have all those monkeys sitting behind typewriters creating selections for Oprah's book club

For the last time..JUST WRITE IN PORTUGUESE!!!
sheesh
Jp

in portuguese you would need to read very carefull all pessoa books a few times to understand a sentence write by me.
trust me.

[1george]

Why the FIA doesn't start this admirable campaign from the first race of the season?

Why the FIA doesn't start an anti-tobacco campaign in those GP's in those countries where the tobacco advertising is allowed?

[Chiara]

Originally posted by 1george
Why the FIA doesn't start this admirable campaign from the first race of the season?

Why the FIA doesn't start an anti-tobacco campaign in those GP's in those countries where the tobacco advertising is allowed?

I would imagine nobody has been flinging cigarettes at their least favourite drivers ;)

[VresiBerba]

Originally posted by miguevaio
yes, Spanish people should learn from more civilizated fans.

http://img412.images.../senna92rq0.jpg

Wow, great, not only is it disgusting behaviour, but they put the Union Flag up-side-down! Those "fans" are obviously in 'distress'

[le chat noir]

Originally posted by lukywill


in portuguese you would need to read very carefull all pessoa books a few times to understand a sentence write by me.
trust me.

english in and? makes what text sense sentences your of?







(or: and in english? what text makes sense of your sentences?)

[lukywill]

Originally posted by le chat noir


english in and? makes what text sense sentences your of?

certainly a misfortune for pollack to read.
do you also have the sense to sensing the sentences of portuguese versus english language?

anyway - this political correctness is starting to smell a lot of hypocrisy. a sport long ago supported and directed to the finest european are to be advised to do the opposite by the same people who only smell money in the past decades.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by For:Sure

Thanks for the patronising response.

My point remains the same - a single incident by a small number of people, however abhorant and undesirable - does not warrant a "campaign". If we see a repeat of it, perhaps it does. I am absolutely for prosecuting racism whereever it rears its ugly head, but I happen to disagree with the scale of the FIA's apparent response.

I shall not presume to know whether you "get" that or not...

All apologies, I meant no disrespect.

What I am trying to put across is that in issues like these, it's a new day. Episodes like this are no longer handled by having everyone stare into their soup for several awkward seconds and then carry on as if nothing happened. Racism and other forms of prejudice will be directly confronted and then discussed and dissected at length, often straight into the ground. Yes, it does cause some embarrassment and discomfort. That's the idea.

[Suntrek]

Originally posted by big x


Yes, thank you I have travelled around Spain. Easy to get to from southern Britain. I take my motorcycle on the Plymouth to Santander ferry.
You underestimate fanatical Alonso supporters, they are prepared to travel thousands of miles to China to unfurl their crane posters:eek:
Funnily enough yesterday I was sitting in the sun my Garden in a t-shirt with the temperature at 18 c and wondering if the British teams might do a bit more testing at home in the future. It's been warmer here than on some of the Spanish test days.

adam

Lucky you, both for travelling around Spain and the nice weather!

However I serched the net high and low trying to find a pic of the China crane banners you were talking about. (not that this is about cranes though, cranes have AFAIK no racist implications)

However, I didn't find any. Perhaps this China banner will do instead?

http://www.autosport...NOA8OW07C2SQP-2

[WHITE]

Originally posted by Jack-the-Lad
Absolutely ridiculous. Perhaps this is to divert attention from FIA's inept and incompetent execution of its actual mission. Racism exists in the hearts of human beings. I really wonder why the FIA thinks it has the ability or the brief to do anything about it.

Jack.

[Fatgadget]

Originally posted by Jack-the-Lad
Absolutely ridiculous. Perhaps this is to divert attention from FIA's inept and incompetent execution of its actual mission. Racism exists in the hearts of human beings. I really wonder why the FIA thinks it has the ability or the brief to do anything about it.

Jack.

Pray tell.How would you like the FIA to handle the situation?

[Buttoneer]

Originally posted by Suntrek
However, I didn't find any. Perhaps this China banner will do instead?

http://www.autosport...NOA8OW07C2SQP-2

Surely this is proof, if any were needed, that our racists are better than yours.