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Winter Testing 2007-08 - II


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#1 vsubravet

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 17:42

Wow. IIRC this is the first time on this BB that a Winter Testing thread had to be split up. Agree with 'Mel' that it had become unwieldy. Can anyone confirm whether McLaren are testing tomorrow at Barcelona? Thanks.

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#2 SFMMSKR

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 17:46

All I can confirm is that Ferrari are testing tommorow. I don't know who to be honest I know one that will be testing will be Massa, however whether it will be Raikkonen or Badoer we do not know.

#3 Timstr11

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 17:48

Originally posted by vsubravet
Wow. IIRC this is the first time on this BB that a Winter Testing thread had to be split up. Agree with 'Mel' that it had become unwieldy. Can anyone confirm whether McLaren are testing tomorrow at Barcelona? Thanks.

http://www.mclaren.c...lona_Feb_21.php

#4 Chiara

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 17:48

According to McLaren's Official website they will be testing 25th-27th Feb again at Barcelona. There is no mention about whether they intend to continue testing tomorrow. Considering the test report was updated today I would think they would have made an indication if they were going to continue tomorrow.

#5 vsubravet

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 17:50

I've read that tomorrow the test track was going to be exclusively for Ferrari (Or rather, that's how I interpreted it). Is that correct? It's strange that Macca have chosen to test for just one day :confused: Maybe they have to look at the total mileage they are clocking up and so they had to restrict themselves to one day.

#6 postajegenye

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 17:51

Will there be a test somewhere at the weekend?

#7 jay_reed

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 17:54

Thursday was the second day of testing this week for Ferrari, working again at the Catalunya Circuit, near Barcelona.

On a day when the weather conditions were favourable, Felipe Massa and Luca Badoer continued with the development work which they begun yesterday, centred on reliability, electronics, set-up testing and development of new aerodynamic solutions.

Massa completed 96 laps and was fourth fastest with a best lap of 1:22.213s, while test driver Badoer put in 102 laps and set the eighth fastest time, three-tenths adrift of Massa.



The duo remain at the circuit tomorrow for the third and final day of testing for the week.


>>>>>> looks like KR won't test til next week.

#8 SFMMSKR

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 17:56

How long was the stint Massa set his time on.

#9 Enkei

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 18:01

Originally posted by vsubravet
I've read that tomorrow the test track was going to be exclusively for Ferrari (Or rather, that's how I interpreted it). Is that correct? It's strange that Macca have chosen to test for just one day :confused: Maybe they have to look at the total mileage they are clocking up and so they had to restrict themselves to one day.


They tested lots of new aerodynamic bits today, I think the best conditions to test those are in the dry.
On the first two days, little mileage was made by the teams that did test. McLaren obviously chose to save testingdays for better wetter.

Is the next test at Barcelona an exclusive test for McLaren?

#10 madraykin

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 18:05

Originally posted by Enkei
Is the next test at Barcelona an exclusive test for McLaren?

Nope, 25th-27th is a group test and it's expected that all the teams will be there.

#11 vsubravet

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 18:05

Originally posted by Enkei


They tested lots of new aerodynamic bits today, I think the best conditions to test those are in the dry.
On the first two days, little mileage was made by the teams that did test. McLaren obviously chose to save testingdays for better wetter.

Is the next test at Barcelona an exclusive test for McLaren?


No, I don't think so. But it surely is the last big Test session before the season begins, though McLaren have some straight line tests scheduled at Menorca in the first week of March.

#12 stalix

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 18:28

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#13 AFCA

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 19:17

I was away for most of the day unfortunately but some points:

- Badoer yesterday: ''We're working non-stop because there are some problems to be solved and we have to do it quickly. People say we're the big favourites but you can never be sure. In terms of performance we have a small advantage, that's true.''

Massa yesterday: ''A good feeling but we don't push to the limit, the test (in difficult circumstances) doesn't bring results we can rely on.''

- Today, in the afternoon Massa was mainly doing stints of around 12 laps, altering the aeroynamic set-up all time. At some stage he had to come into the pitbox because there was some 'suspicious' smoke coming from his engine. In the end I don't think it was a problem.

- An hour before the end Alonso's Renault stopped with a gearbox problem.

#14 ex Rhodie racer

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 19:53

I must say I am a bit concerned with the Renault´s performance to date. Doesn´t bode well for the season. I can´t believe they´re sandbaging.

#15 SFMMSKR

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 20:09

AFCA, can you translate and say what Badoer said on the RAISPORT interview. AFCA how long was the stint Massa set his fastest lap on.

#16 quasi C

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 20:26

"Ferrari and McLaren are looking good. I see a similar situation to last year. BMW and Renault could also have a say."

#17 Jimages

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 20:40

Originally posted by madraykin

Nope, 25th-27th is a group test and it's expected that all the teams will be there.


According to circuitcat.com all the teams except Williams will be there.

#18 rodlamas

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 20:59

Originally posted by quasi C
"Ferrari and McLaren are looking good. I see a similar situation to last year. BMW and Renault could also have a say."


AMuS report is on the same line.

And I bet next week's test won't clear our opinion in any direction!

#19 xman

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 21:26

Räikkönen's personal trainer Mark Arnall confirms that Kimi is not testing this week due to flu and coughing. They are trying to get him back in shape till Monday when the final test period begins.

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#20 black magic

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Posted 21 February 2008 - 23:26

which team can afford to sandbag with limited testing days available?

has never made any sense and never been demonstrated. what we have seen is the struggling teams trying to boost morale/sponsors with light fuel running.

#21 sanjiro

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 00:52

Sandbagging is pointless.
I am sure that it has happened on occasion.
I doubt it happens often.

This is testing, all the teams are working to a test program.
A program dictated by their needs for development and polish.

Fans see their team down the time sheet and immediately conclude they are sandbagging.
Truth is they could have been working any number of programs that did not involve going flat out.
Sometimes in testing consistency is the name of the game not breaking lap records.
Engineers need a good solid data set to work with and that may require a day of hitting the same times over and over.

Other teams may well be working on that top end set up or just trying to see the limit they are able to get out of the car. It really is all over the place.

Its never comforting to see your favorite team/driver down on the time sheets but thats what makes testing such a hot topic to discuss, we just dont know what they were doing on that day, at that time.

Not entirely relevant but I can tell you that at club level racing the only time you sandbag is when you already know what your car can do and you want to lull the other drivers into false sense of security.
In F1 with limited test Kms and new cars every year I doubt very much the teams have time to play funny buggers.

#22 lythe

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 01:38

Originally posted by Jimages


According to circuitcat.com all the teams except Williams will be there.

According to the Williams website, Williams will be there: "The team remain in Barcelona for the final pre-season test next week."

#23 Durant

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 02:41

Originally posted by black magic
which team can afford to sandbag with limited testing days available?


Some teams probably have no interest in running low fuel and they can calculate their own position because they know exactly how much fuel they have. So from their point of view, they are not sandbagging. Maybe they are doing it on purpose or they simply dont feel the need to run the car in the fastest trim.

#24 GT Racing Online Magazine

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 07:25

Massa interview on TS after yesterday's tests:

- I'm in form, the car is in form and the whole team is in form. Today the lap times were not important. We were able to run all the programs and we are exactly where we hoped to be with the updates to the car. This car is ready for the world championship battle, Massa declared.

According to Massa the new aero package gives it 0.2s over the previous version.

-But we will not rest on our laurels, we are improving every day. As soon as I get new parts into the car I forget they are new and want even more new parts. Emmekä me suinkaan pysähdy tähän. Parannamme joka päivä. Heti kun saan uusia osia autoon, unohdan ne ja haluan jo lisää.

Friday is a very important test day for Ferrari as it will do a complete race simulation with both drivers, Badoer standing in for a sick Raikkonen.

-I will surely win that race, Massa laughs, but the most imprtant target is to complete the race. The main point is to ensure the reliability of the car.

Massa says that on a dry track he does not anymore notice the absence of TC.

- I'm sure that we are faster than last year. Only during rain will there be surprises, as suddenly you notice you are a passanger and not a driver.

#25 Brian O Flaherty

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 08:03

When does it usually get cracking each day? 9am local time (i.e. now-ish) ?

#26 Ploert

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 08:05

Originally posted by GT Racing Online Magazine
Massa interview on TS after yesterday's tests:

- I'm in form, the car is in form and the whole team is in form. Today the lap times were not important. We were able to run all the programs and we are exactly where we hoped to be with the updates to the car. This car is ready for the world championship battle, Massa declared.

According to Massa the new aero package gives it 0.2s over the previous version.

-But we will not rest on our laurels, we are improving every day. As soon as I get new parts into the car I forget they are new and want even more new parts. Emmekä me suinkaan pysähdy tähän. Parannamme joka päivä. Heti kun saan uusia osia autoon, unohdan ne ja haluan jo lisää.

Friday is a very important test day for Ferrari as it will do a complete race simulation with both drivers, Badoer standing in for a sick Raikkonen.

-I will surely win that race, Massa laughs, but the most imprtant target is to complete the race. The main point is to ensure the reliability of the car.

Massa says that on a dry track he does not anymore notice the absence of TC.

- I'm sure that we are faster than last year. Only during rain will there be surprises, as suddenly you notice you are a passanger and not a driver.


Thanks GT Racing. Much appreciated!

#27 Owen

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 08:51

Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer
I must say I am a bit concerned with the Renault´s performance to date. Doesn´t bode well for the season. I can´t believe they´re sandbaging.


If you want to feel better about things read this

#28 AFCA

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 08:59

Symonds: ''We're ahead of BMW Sauber, the car is progressing and next week we'll have new aerodynamic parts.''

De la Rosa: ''We're not far away from Ferrari, but Renault isn't in as much difficulty as Alonso leads us to believe either.''

#29 Yellowmc

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 09:01

Wishful thinking, BMW seem to have got their act together.

#30 kar

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 09:04

Not so sure...Renault are a dark horse in all of this. I mentioned in another thread it is Renault that I fear the most. Alonso + a Renault with their shit together is something to be wary of.

They will only get faster.

#31 Jimages

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 09:07

Originally posted by lythe

According to the Williams website, Williams will be there: "The team remain in Barcelona for the final pre-season test next week."


Right you are. I guess this is the most reliable indication. I hope they do something a bit more visually imaginative with the final test livery.

#32 Owen

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 09:08

Originally posted by kar
Not so sure...Renault are a dark horse in all of this. I mentioned in another thread it is Renault that I fear the most. Alonso + a Renault with their shit together is something to be wary of.

They will only get faster.


kar, if there's one thing emerging as a consensus of opinion it's that Ferrari are currently the pace setters, so I wouldn't worry too much if I was you. Looks like the early races will be good for you.

#33 Brian O Flaherty

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 09:09

Agreed kar. I find it intriguing. Renault really are the wildcard this season. Williams have the same #1 driver and BMW have the same drivers so the progress of those teams should be relatively predictable and we should know where roughly they will be. Renault on the other hand have their star man back and could potentially become the 3rd quickest team. It could be argued that in 2007 given the performances of last season's Renault, if Alonso had been in the car they'd have been battling BMW for the points NH & RK eventually got. The battle for 3rd place this season will be hotter than it has been for a long time.

#34 ImmortaL

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 09:19

Originally posted by AFCA
Symonds: ''We're ahead of BMW Sauber, the car is progressing and next week we'll have new aerodynamic parts.''

De la Rosa: ''We're not far away from Ferrari, but Renault isn't in as much difficulty as Alonso leads us to believe either.''


Where did you find these quotes AFCA?

#35 former champ

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 09:26

Originally posted by kar
Not so sure...Renault are a dark horse in all of this. I mentioned in another thread it is Renault that I fear the most. Alonso + a Renault with their shit together is something to be wary of.

They will only get faster.


:up:

That is the combinaton to watch IMO. Ignore them at your peril, it amuses me how many people have written off Alonso and Renault based on the teams form last year.

#36 AFCA

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 09:28

Originally posted by ImmortaL


Where did you find these quotes AFCA?


Gazzetta

#37 Viki

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 09:29

Originally posted by Durant


Some teams probably have no interest in running low fuel and they can calculate their own position because they know exactly how much fuel they have. So from their point of view, they are not sandbagging. Maybe they are doing it on purpose or they simply dont feel the need to run the car in the fastest trim.


Perhaps they will run in the fastest trim in the very last tests at Silverstone and we will get more clear picture...There won't be a lot of time left till season starts then and it will be less reasons to hide true pace...

#38 kar

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 09:29

Originally posted by former champ


:up:

That is the combinaton to watch IMO. Ignore them at your peril, it amuses me how many people have written off Alonso and Renault based on the teams form last year.


I'm just thinking Ferrari 2006.

Took them a while to get going but when they did... Renault are quite similarly placed imo.

#39 Mika Mika

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 09:36

Originally posted by kar


I'm just thinking Ferrari 2006.

Took them a while to get going but when they did... Renault are quite similarly placed imo.


I read that in 2006 Ferrari took the wrong desicion with the type of BS tyre to develop, and it was Alex Wurz at Williams who got BS on the right track.

So I guess Ferrari have to be thankful to Williams and Alex :-)..

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#40 K-One

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 09:37

Originally posted by AFCA
Symonds: ''We're ahead of BMW Sauber, the car is progressing and next week we'll have new aerodynamic parts.''


But how can that be :confused: Alonso said that they are strugling to get Q3, are behind Ferrari, Mclaren and BMW, they only fight be 7th on a good day? And this is with his 0,6 secs and plus engireening input

#41 Yolandy

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 09:40

Originally posted by K-One


But how can that be :confused: Alonso said that they are strugling to get Q3, are behind Ferrari, Mclaren and BMW, they only fight be 7th on a good day? And this is with his 0,6 secs and plus engireening input


it must be alonso but kimi who got a high fever!

#42 Yoshi

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 09:41

I think Alonso is just sandbaging as he did it already last year with the Mclaren Team.
It is just the strategy from Alonso to take the pressure away.
They will be strong for sure. :up:

#43 K-One

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 09:43

Originally posted by Yoshi
I think Alonso is just sandbaging as he did it already last year with the Mclaren Team.
It is just the strategy from Alonso.
They will be strong for sure. :up:


Of course he is, but guess who will get credit for all that happening ;) Renault will be strong

#44 fnz

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 09:43

Originally posted by K-One


But how can that be :confused: Alonso said that they are strugling to get Q3, are behind Ferrari, Mclaren and BMW, they only fight be 7th on a good day? And this is with his 0,6 secs and plus engireening input


For godsake... give the .6 secs a rest plz!

#45 hello86

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 09:43

I think it´s something between.

They are not as bad as Ferny wants to make us to believe and Symands is a little bit too optimistic.

#46 as65p

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 09:58

Originally posted by K-One


But how can that be :confused: Alonso said that they are strugling to get Q3, are behind Ferrari, Mclaren and BMW, they only fight be 7th on a good day? And this is with his 0,6 secs and plus engireening input


Since when do you listen to what Alonso says?

;)

It's really anyones guess how they will fare this year. Alonso is known to talk the car performance down rather than up, much like MS used to do.

PdlR has some experience with Fernando from last year and seems convinced that Renault sandbags.

#47 Jimages

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 09:59

Alonso may be playing down expectations, but also to a large extent he is also being realistic. It is not like any team to "sandbag" during testing, like others have said it is a waste of money and time and is better spent on proper development and evaluation.

The reason that I do not think any team and Renault in particular are sandbagging is that if you look back to pre-season winter testing in 2005 and 2006 the Renault was consistently at or near the top of the time sheets. But it wasn't the single lap pace that had their rivals in the pitlane worried, it was the long run pace and consistency.

Fast forward to today, and Renault do not look not particularly strong in either single lap pace or long run consistency. On the contrary Ferrari is looking strong, and strong in all areas.

Neither Renault nor BMW have been as impressive this winter as we might have expected them to be. To be fair they will probably still be the best of the rest behind Ferrari and McLaren, but you definitely can not rule out Red Bull or Williams from spoiling the party.

Williams despite a few terrible seasons, and a crisis are still a team with a proven pedigree and their recent steady curve of improvement shows that they are a team that still have great depth of engineering strength. They managed to keep up with the development rate last year with the FW29, there is no reason why the FW30 should not be even stronger.

Red Bull Racing have an impressive technical team led by some big names, Adrian Newey, Geoff Willis etc, and after some teething problems the threads of potential are beginning to knit together.

For the first half of the season the battle to the 3rd best team is going to be very very tight, and I really can not pull a name out of the hat to say who it will be at this time, it could be BMW, Renault, Williams or RBR, they are all dark horses.

#48 as65p

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 10:04

Originally posted by fnz


For godsake... give the .6 secs a rest plz!


Never - ever. Well, or only in case the R28 should prove 0.6 faster than the rest in Melbourne :drunk: , then it's the other sides turn to marvel about the 0.6.

In any case, it's here to stay...

;)

#49 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 10:19

Originally posted by ex Rhodie racer
I must say I am a bit concerned with the Renault´s performance to date. Doesn´t bode well for the season. I can´t believe they´re sandbaging.


They don't post top team lap times because they are equal with Red Bull, Williams and BMW, and not way in front of those teams is where they should be, for the benefit of supporters of Red Bull, Williams and BMW who do not want to hand 3rd spot to Renault! Simple as that.  ;)

Alonso? Will fight for points with Heidfeld, Rosberg, Kubica, Webber, Coulthard etc. because there is no proof he is a signficantly better driver than this lot!

#50 roadie

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 10:28

I am really looking forward to next week's test when all the cars are on track at the same time. Then we should see confirmation of the running order. I see it pretty much the same as last season at the moment, with Ferrari and Maclaren out front, BMW just behind and then the rest of the midfield, headed up by Williams and Red Bull.