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Winter Testing 2007-08 - II


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#51 Durant

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 10:34

Originally posted by V8 Fireworks

Alonso? Will fight for points with Heidfeld, Rosberg, Kubica, Webber, Coulthard etc. because there is no proof he is a signficantly better driver than this lot!



Yes these days two WCs isnt worth much is it. :lol:

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#52 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 10:38

TS says McLaren quicker on one lap pace, but over long stints Ferrari quicker.

Originally posted by Durant



Yes these days two WCs isnt worth much is it. :lol:


Yep, indeed it isn`t :lol:
By your previous account

http://forums.autosp...highlight=fraud

#53 Yoshi

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 10:39

Does somebody got any Informations about today from Ferrari? Especially about new parts on the car?

Thank you.

#54 Jimages

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 10:49

Well today is a private test for the Scuderia. I'm pretty sure it's closed to both public and the media at large. So I doubt there will be a flood of pictures or information until Monday when all the teams are testing, and public and media are present.

#55 gerry nassar

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 10:50

Originally posted by K-One


But how can that be :confused: Alonso said that they are strugling to get Q3, are behind Ferrari, Mclaren and BMW, they only fight be 7th on a good day? And this is with his 0,6 secs and plus engireening input


Alonso always plays down his teams capability.

The truth is - the Renault was always going to be a good car this year as the major problems they had last year (tyres and wind tunnel error) have been rectified and they were able to focus on the car much earlier than Ferrari and Mclaren.

Perhaps we'll know more next week - but for now I share Kar's view.

Guys keep this thread on track.

#56 Cheap Wine Alesi

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 10:52

Originally posted by gerry nassar


Alonso always plays down his teams capability.

The truth is - the Renault was always going to be a good car this year as the major problems they had last year (tyres and wind tunnel error) have been rectified and they were able to focus on the car much earlier than Ferrari and Mclaren.


Agreed.

Alonso is doing what he always does, he downplays his team so that when they get a good result, he will look like a hero. Renault will be a top team for sure this year

#57 Clatter

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 10:52

Originally posted by gerry nassar
The truth is - the Renault was always going to be a good car this year as the major problems they had last year (tyres and wind tunnel error) have been rectified and they were able to focus on the car much earlier than Ferrari and Mclaren.



None of that is a guarantee of producing a good car.

#58 gerry nassar

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 10:53

Originally posted by fnz


For godsake... give the .6 secs a rest plz!


Agreed. The 0.6 sec joke is getting very old. I think it should be retired once and for all.

#59 Mika Mika

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 10:55

Originally posted by gerry nassar


Agreed. The 0.6 sec joke is getting very old. I think it should be retired once and for all.


:up: :up:

That and the Cheating evil spying Mclaren and/or Renault.
Oh and the FIA helping Ferrari/Mclaren/Lewis rubbish too.

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#60 Owen

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 10:58

Originally posted by Mika Mika


:up: :up:

That and the Cheating evil spying Mclaren and/or Renault.
Oh and the FIA helping Ferrari/Mclaren/Lewis rubbish too.


Yeh, how tiresome all that stuff is. New season starting, new stuff to discuss now.

#61 Lord Snooty

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 11:13

Originally posted by Owen


Yeh, how tiresome all that stuff is. New season starting, new stuff to discuss now.


Couldn't agree more.

:up:

Not only a new season but the prospect of some genuinely close racing in the mid field if not initially at the front. The whole BMW, Red Bull, Renault and Williams contest is going to be tight, tense and fascinating to watch (I hope). And much more interesting than mudslinging antics & legal wranglings.

#62 Durant

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 11:22

Originally posted by gerry nassar


Agreed. The 0.6 sec joke is getting very old. I think it should be retired once and for all.


It will retire itself once Alonso hits the track in a few weeks. No one will dare say the joke again and everyone who has will suffer the consequences. Ill be preparing the list soon.

#63 Devero

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 11:22

Originally posted by gerry nassar


Alonso always plays down his teams capability.


He did not do that in 2005-2006, 2006 especially. In 2007 he said that Ferrari was superior and it was the case in Melburn.
But for God`s sake now. Open your eyes pls. Renault R28 is in the middle of the pack. Ferrari and Macca are defintely ahead a lot, and then there are BMW, Red Bull, Williams and Renault. Last 3 are quite close. So a big headache for getting into Q3 when additionally Toyota, Honda, Toro Rosso may gamble with their strategies.
And R28 is not only averidge in speed but not reliable enough.
Renault has been investing not enough into their F1 efforts for many years. You can`t always produce a car capable of winning with 5-6th budget with twice less figures then top competitors.

Originally posted by gerry nassar


The truth is - the Renault was always going to be a good car this year as the major problems they had last year (tyres and wind tunnel error) have been rectified and they were able to focus on the car much earlier than Ferrari and Mclaren.


Its a joke. No one was going to have a good car whatever year because you think it is. And Renault in 2008 especially. This team lost the ground in 2006 with their 2007 project. And may be we may expect something better in 2009 especiallyif Alonso stays that year with the team. In 2009 there will be the substantial changes in regulations. There will be a chance for some teams to gain because of that. Hopefully Renault with Alonso will be one of these teams like it was in 2005.

#64 stalix

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 11:25

http://www.sportlife...=350&Itemid=201

12:06 Massa 1'20.71

#65 Mika Mika

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 11:27

Originally posted by Devero
Renault has been investing not enough into their F1 efforts for many years. You can`t always produce a car capable of winning with 5-6th budget with twice less figures then top competitors.


Intresting, I see many varing reports on F1 budgets,

Ferrari are usually top,
Then Either Toyota or McLaren 2nd/3rd
Usually Renault 4th
And then the rest...

Id love to know the actual truth...

#66 Yellowmc

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 11:37

In 2006, McLaren had the highest budget followed by Toyota, Honda and BMW.

Ferrari followed them and spent around $30 million more than Renault.

McLaren - $400 million
Toyota - $393 million
Honda - $382 million
BMW - $378 million
Ferrari - $329 million
Renault - $300 million

#67 HSJ

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 11:38

What are the wheather conditions today? Are Ferrari really alone on track? Have they done quali simulation yet and are they doing the race now?

Originally posted by Durant



Yes these days two WCs isnt worth much is it. :lol:


Stats aren't worth anything. Ever. Just consider Villeneuve vs. Button, which driver had better stats and which had better skill.

Personally I don't see reason to start 'policing' people talking about the .6sec myth. It's fair game as anything else.

Oh good, yet another budget estimate list. They're almost worthless IMHO. Just look at Toyota and Honda there, they're usually further apart and more often than not not so high up. Toyota used to be ranked 1st when they started, but then plummeted quickly as their "startup" budget wasn't maintained. Or so some say, it's all very unreliable.

#68 markf

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 11:41

Originally posted by stalix
http://www.sportlife...=350&Itemid=201

12:06 Massa 1'20.71


Stunning time! 1'20.71 is the quickest testtime so far on the new Barcelonalayout

#69 barteks

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 11:45

Originally posted by stalix
12:06 Massa 1'20.71

1.5 second faster than yesterday? :rolleyes:

#70 F1-

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 11:48

Did Norbert Haug say its questionable whether a low 1:21:xxx can beat Ferrari, well now he know the answer.

#71 intelligentsia

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 11:49

Originally posted by markf


Stunning time! 1'20.71 is the quickest testtime so far on the new Barcelonalayout




That is not bad, the fastest time from last year was 1:21.044

#72 Mika Mika

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 11:51

Originally posted by Yellowmc
In 2006, McLaren had the highest budget followed by Toyota, Honda and BMW.

Ferrari followed them and spent around $30 million more than Renault.

McLaren - $400 million
Toyota - $393 million
Honda - $382 million
BMW - $378 million
Ferrari - $329 million
Renault - $300 million


I have seen it very different, with Ferrari top at $500 million...

all I could find was in 2004
$443,800,000 Ferrari
$353,300,000 Williams
$304,600,000 McLaren
$290,400,000 Toyota
$225,100,000 BAR
$206,800,000 Renault
$119,500,000 Sauber
$ 79,200,000 Jordan
$ 78,800,000 Jaguar
$ 39,600,000 Minardi

and in 1999
Ferrari's budget was at $225 million; McLaren $125 million, Jaguar/Stewart and Williams $105 million, Benetton $80 million, Prost and Sauber $60 million each, Jordan $55 million, Minardi $50 million and Arrows just $35 million. Benetton's figure was hardest to calculate as they were still a full owned subsidiary of the Benetton group of companies at that time.

I wouldnt of thought Ferrari would have lowered there budget by so much, or honda raised it by so much... I think it goes to show how hard the budget cap would be...

#73 F1-

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 11:52

Sorry what was the fastest time without TC in Barca last year, pre christmas test.

#74 Yoshi

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 11:53

Nice Time from Massa :up:

Ferrari's testschedule:

Monday 25th February Barcelona
Schumacher & Raikkonen :p

Tuesday 26th Februari Barcelona
Raikkonen & Massa

Wednesday 27th Februari Barcelona
Raikkonen & Massa

#75 kar

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 11:53

2007 fastest testing time: Felipe Massa (Ferrari) 1:21.044

http://www.autosport.com/f1/testing/

#76 F1-

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 11:54

I would agree with a $150 Million budget cap, not including drivers wages transport cost, and Money from FOM.

#77 kar

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 11:55

Originally posted by markf


Stunning time! 1'20.71 is the quickest testtime so far on the new Barcelonalayout


And it remains to be seen just how much quicker (if at all of course) Kimi could have gone given his particularly imperious form this winter.

#78 barteks

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 11:57

Originally posted by Yoshi
Ferrari's testschedule:

Monday 25th February Barcelona
Schumacher & Raikkonen :p


Is it true?

#79 F1-

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 11:57

How many lap stint was that if any at all.

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#80 rodlamas

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 11:58

Originally posted by kar


And it remains to be seen just how much quicker (if at all of course) Kimi could have gone given his particularly imperious form this winter.


Because we all know Kimi is at least 0.5 faster than Massa. :rolleyes:

#81 kar

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 11:59

Originally posted by rodlamas


Because we all know Kimi is at least 0.5 faster than Massa. :rolleyes:


Who knows, that was my point, it would have been interesting to see what Raikkonen could have done. Faster/slower whatever.

#82 Jimages

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 12:01

Originally posted by barteks


Is it true?


I very much doubt it. Even if Schumacher is down to test, the chances are that he will not be testing on the same day as Raikkonen.

#83 Mika Mika

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 12:01

Ferrari is now doing Friday practice - qualiyfing and a race of over 310 km including the real starting procedure as well as pitstops. ''The feeling is the same as in October 2007'' it's being said in Maranello.



#84 markf

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 12:02

Originally posted by kar


Who knows, that was my point, it would have been interesting to see what Raikkonen could have done. Faster/slower whatever.


We'll see next week....

#85 Yellowmc

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 12:05

http://www.sportlife.....20Massa 5.jpg[/IMG]
http://www.sportlife.....ca Badoer.jpg[/IMG]
http://www.sportlife.....Ferrari 2.jpg[/IMG]

#86 speedy

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 12:07

Originally posted by K-One


But how can that be :confused: Alonso said that they are strugling to get Q3, are behind Ferrari, Mclaren and BMW, they only fight be 7th on a good day? And this is with his 0,6 secs and plus engireening input


Somehow that 0,6 secs must be founded - it would not surprise me if Renault was among the top 4 in the first race. They realised early last year that they have a dog and started to concentrate for the next season. The improvement they made with the old car last year show that they were consistently stepping forward. You could assume that they have a better starting point with their this year's car than they had last year + they have learned Bstones by now - podiums are a realistic chance. They had a wdc winning car only 2 years ago and the knowledge to build anotherone hasn't suddenly disappeared.

#87 Chiara

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 12:08

According to www.F1total.com Schumacher and Raikkonen will both be out on track on monday, but it says comparisons can't really be made as they will be testing different parts of the F2008 programme.

How true that is, is anyone's guess. :p

#88 markf

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 12:12

Originally posted by Yellowmc
[Bhttp://www.sportlifepress.com/1/images/galeria_contenidos/test_f1_montmelo4_ferrari/Felipe%20Massa%205.jpg[/IMG]
[/B]


Thats the big ferraripitwall, the gp one. Not the test one. They are serious.

#89 F1-

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 12:15

1.20.6 now

#90 barteks

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 12:15

Originally posted by markf
Thats the big ferraripitwall, the gp one. Not the test one. They are serious.

What's the difference?

#91 yvonne.kk

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 12:16

Originally posted by Chiara
According to www.F1total.com Schumacher and Raikkonen will both be out on track on monday, but it says comparisons can't really be made as they will be testing different parts of the F2008 programme.

How true that is, is anyone's guess. :p


How generous FM is! :smoking:

#92 sensible

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 12:17

Originally posted by Owen


Yeh, how tiresome all that stuff is. New season starting, new stuff to discuss now.

This is a bit rich coming from the people who are more than happy to troll out austria 02, jerez 97 etc etc at every opportunity. suck it up like we had to

#93 F1-

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 12:18

Did the Barcelona Test flatter Ferrari too like Symonds claims. We'll see what the others can do.

#94 Chiara

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 12:19

Originally posted by barteks

What's the difference?


the race pitwall has alot more seats :p the test one has room for about 3 people I think ;)

#95 Owen

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 12:24

Originally posted by sensible

This is a bit rich coming from the people who are more than happy to troll out austria 02, jerez 97 etc etc at every opportunity. suck it up like we had to


Newsflash. It's 2008 now.

#96 ImmortaL

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 12:26

Originally posted by F1-
1.20.6 now


Maybe a quali time?(Q2 or Q3 perhaps?)

#97 Mika Mika

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 12:29

Originally posted by ImmortaL


Maybe a quali time?(Q2 or Q3 perhaps?)


I think that is quite lightly as ACFA said Ferrari were going full race and quali pratice today...

Ferrari is now doing Friday practice - qualiyfing and a race of over 310 km including the real starting procedure as well as pitstops. ''The feeling is the same as in October 2007'' it's being said in Maranello.



#98 sensible

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 12:32

Originally posted by Yoshi
Nice Time from Massa :up:

Ferrari's testschedule:

Monday 25th February Barcelona
Schumacher & Raikkonen :p


Interesting that if Kimi had joined MS in the race team last year, MS would have been in a no-win situation. Had he won it would have been because it was his team and had he lost it would have been because Kimi was always better. Now its kind of reversed - Kimi is in the no win situation. If he wins its cos Schumi has been out for a year, if he loses its because Michael was always better. Funny how things turn around :

Talking about the perceptions btw rather than the reality which is obviously that they'll probably be testing completely different things

#99 ImmortaL

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 12:33

Originally posted by Mika Mika


I think that is quite lightly as ACFA said Ferrari were going full race and quali pratice today...


So if its a quali time and since the fastest time done there in earlier testing was a 1:21.xxx, i really think Ferrari's quali pace may also be superior than the other teams like their long run pace. So their quali problems from 2007 seems to be improved a lot...

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#100 ImmortaL

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Posted 22 February 2008 - 12:36

Originally posted by Chiara
According to www.F1total.com Schumacher and Raikkonen will both be out on track on monday, but it says comparisons can't really be made as they will be testing different parts of the F2008 programme.

How true that is, is anyone's guess. :p


So Schumi will be using the car driven by Massa and Massa's engineers instead of Kimi's whom he has been using in last year's testing?