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#1 Dunc

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 21:43

F1 writers are saying that the competition between Alonso, Hamilton and Raikonen is akin to that of Prost, Senna and Mansell 20 years ago. Who would you say the former selves of today's drivers are. I'd say:

Raikonen - Prost
Alonso - Mansell
Hamilton - Senna

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#2 Josta

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 21:57

Originally posted by Dunc
F1 writers are saying that the competition between Alonso, Hamilton and Raikonen is akin to that of Prost, Senna and Mansell 20 years ago. Who would you say the former selves of today's drivers are. I'd say:

Raikonen - Prost
Alonso - Mansell
Hamilton - Senna


Well, given the fact that Alonso is 2x WDC, Raikkonen 1x WDC and Lewis 0x WDC, it would make more sense for Alonso = Prost, Raikkonen = Senna and Lewis = Mansell.

#3 ZenemyZ

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 22:03

Hmm..

in my opinion Raikkonen is more like Mansell, the long time unlucky guy due to bad luck or stupid mistakes, but finally securing one world championship title (or even more)..

Alonso indeed is like Prost, being 2 times WDC and the most experienced one, fighting with all means and political tricks as well..

And Hamilton could take the Senna seat, not only due to the same helmet but also due to the carefree and unheeding approach to the obstacles of the F1 circus.. kinda reminds of the Senna of the mid 80ies

#4 noikeee

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 22:03

We've done this last year as the season looked a lot like 1986, with the 4-way fight for the championship and all. The most popular idea was that:

Raikkonen = Piquet without his mouth
Massa = Mansell without his talent
Alonso = Prost without his mental stability
Hamilton = Senna without a little bit of everything

#5 jokuvaan

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 22:05

Its totally futile trying to compare present drivers for those of past. Especially if they happen to be rather unique.

#6 Kop Alonso

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 22:35

For me Alonso is clearly Mansell, great in he car if only his mouth was sealed out of it ...

:|

#7 SirSaltire

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 22:42

Originally posted by Kop Alonso
For me Alonso is clearly Mansell, great in he car if only his mouth was sealed out of it ...

:|

:up: Couldn't agree more but I think Mansell was slightly more annoying!

#8 coyoteBR

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 23:05

Originally posted by Dunc
F1 writers are saying that the competition between Alonso, Hamilton and Raikonen is akin to that of Prost, Senna and Mansell 20 years ago. Who would you say the former selves of today's drivers are. I'd say:

Raikonen - Prost
Alonso - Mansell
Hamilton - Senna


I guess Alonso is more like Piquet - a lot to talk. Massa, due his thrilling - and sometimes over-the-top style is Mansell.

#9 Kop Alonso

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Posted 23 February 2008 - 23:54

But Piquet was also known for his practical jokes & wicked sense of humour, Alonso can do the odd card trick & thats about it.....

:)

#10 Dragonfly

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 01:25

Raikkonen = Raikkonen
Alonso = Alonso
Hamilton = Hamilton

I really hope Ayrton is not turning in his grave from such groundless comparisons.

#11 BunnyK

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 01:37

Originally posted by Dragonfly
Raikkonen = Raikkonen
Alonso = Alonso
Hamilton = Hamilton

I really hope Ayrton is not turning in his grave from such groundless comparisons.


Thank you! :kiss:

#12 MONTOYASPEED

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 01:50

Hamilton can't be compared to anyone in that group until he gets a championship.

#13 Nitropower

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 02:00

Originally posted by MONTOYASPEED
Hamilton can't be compared to anyone in that group until he gets a championship.


Comparing Hamilton to Senna is a clear sign of boredom

#14 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 02:16

Originally posted by Nitropower


Comparing Hamilton to Senna is a clear sign of boredom

I was thinking the same thing..
Piquet was the bomb.
I was at a course one weekend when he stuffed it into the wall in front of about 20-30 fence hangers,of which I was one of, during a practice session. He climbed out, walked over to our group and proceeded to enlighten us on all the different lines guys were trying. How they were missing it, and how they were hitting it, and how some progressed during the session, what gear they had and so forth. With a great deal of humor thrown in on some of the efforts. I was fairly new to F-1 racing, and it was one of the moments that sealed the deal that I would always be following it.
raikonnen=piquet?
Nope, doesn't compute

#15 HDonaldCapps

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 02:49

"Historians repeat themselves, but the past does not."

#16 hobbes

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 03:04

Originally posted by MONTOYASPEED
Hamilton can't be compared to anyone in that group until he gets a championship.


Senna with Hamilton? :confused:

#17 Nitropower

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 03:56

In fact I reckon it is quite difficult to reasonably match drivers from different eras. The simple fact that a driver is shy does not mean he is the same as another shy driver. As being blond, or passionate.

Alonso can't be Prost, because Alonso is more passionate. But while being passionate he is shy too. They say he is a whiner but he doesn't talk too often.
Kimi can't be Mansell or Prost or Senna. Kimi is Kimi, he is cold as ice but at the same time he gives it all, and is totally obsessed with being the fastest, he always looks for the fast lap regardless it is worth it.
And Hamilton can't be Senna at all. The character is completely different, Senna was like the father of the grid, the guy feeling everyone had to respect him. Except for the fact both whine about their team mates. Hamilton still has a long way to go.

#18 Durant

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 04:02

Originally posted by MONTOYASPEED
Hamilton can't be compared to anyone in that group until he gets a championship.


I dont think these comparisons are really meant as equality but rather a likeness and style.

Hamilton - Senna. Similar attacking mentality and ability to pull out great last second qualifying laps.

Alonso- Prost .Smart tactical racer whos strength is race pace and smarts and consistency.

Kimi- Piquet. A blend of the former two.

None of them remind me of Mansell. That was Montoya.

#19 former champ

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 05:22

comparing any of them is ridiculous. Full stop. :up:

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#20 The Kanisteri

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 05:51

Maybe Senna was Alonso, Prost was Räikkönen and Gilles Villeneuve was Juan Pablo Montoya, but those pathetic bastards didn't just knew that. Maybe they didn't get a memo? :p

#21 Georg_Kuyumji

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 08:35

For me Alonso would be kind of like Prost, with there driving style and politics.

Hamilton is like Mansell a daredevil, very brave, he's often 'all over the place', very exciting to watch, but sometimes 'over doing it'

#22 Buttoneer

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 09:06

Surely it's;

Alonso = Yuji Ide
Hamilton = Jean-Dennis Deletraz
Raikkonen = Alex Yoong

#23 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 09:10

Originally posted by Buttoneer
Surely it's;

Alonso = Yuji Ide
Hamilton = Jean-Dennis Deletraz
Raikkonen = Alex Yoong


And Ide is a top Formula Nippon driver, and Yoong a top A1GP driver... great steerers the both of them!  ;)

#24 Mika Mika

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 10:27

I think it's pretty harmless to compare past and present drivers with each other, the commentators themselves were comparing Hamilton's style with Michael Schumacher last year, and saying how similar and how they Lewis reminded them of Michael...

No one means anything bad when they say Alonso reminds them of Prost, if anything I think it's a complement to both drivers...

If you don't agree rather than making negative comments simply ignore the thread...

#25 etoipi

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 10:55

I thought this thread was going to be about Super Aguri doing an Arrows - maybe another thread?

In terms of trying to compare the drivers, it is quite futile as all drivers are unique - just sit back and enjoy their skills and abilities now

#26 e34fanatic

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 10:57

I´d say that this situation is more like in the 80`s. During the time when Michael reigned the f1, he was so much above the rest that there was no room for three way fight. He got beaten occasionally but the opposition changed constantly. First it was Hill, who challenged Michael, then Jacques, Mika and last Fernando.

Now it appears that there is three way fight. But I´d wait and see how the situation develops. Kimi and Fernando are world champions and estabilshed top drivers. Hamilton still has only one season behind him. It was great debut season. This year we are going to see, if Lewis is capable of leading the team.

I wouldn´t compare drivers between different eras. They are so different. But it seems that we have again atleast two-way fight. Hopefully we´ll have three way duell even this season!

#27 undersquare

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 11:11

I think it's interesting to look at how different all the various great drivers are. In some ways trying to draw comparisons brings this out. But it's a trap to compare the whole career of the former drivers with the early/partial career of the current ones. How does Hamilton in his first year compare with Senna in his first? Well it's Toleman vs. McLaren.

#28 Cplu

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 11:29

comparing hamilton to senna is taking the piss a bit....

#29 rookie

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 13:52

yeah I'm over the Hamilton "is like Senna" comparisons too....FFS is it just the yellow helmet? 1 season in F1!, 1 season is all he has done, yeah it was great but so what? It wasn't the first great season and it won't be the last.

I really enjoy his driving, but all the hype and BS surrounding him is hard to stomach sometimes.

#30 noikeee

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 14:35

Well it's obvious Hamilton still has a long, long way to go to get near to Senna's achievements. I don't think anyone's disputing that. The reason the comparison makes sense to me is:

- his driving style last year reminded me of Senna a lot, very on the edge, car dancing all over the place, see his onboards at Monaco and Indianapolis.

- the whole team-mate thing at McLaren between Alonso and him was so similar to Prost vs Senna at McLaren back in the 80s. Senna the young guy vs Prost the established guy.

Of course every person is different and has their own personality, this is just random talk to pass time.

#31 Uwe

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 17:30

Originally posted by Dunc
F1 writers are saying that the competition between Alonso, Hamilton and Raikonen is akin to that of Prost, Senna and Mansell 20 years ago. Who would you say the former selves of today's drivers are.

I'm more interested in the identity of those "F1 writers". They must be a right bunch of idiots and know-nothings.

#32 Spunout

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 17:35

Originally posted by Dunc
F1 writers are saying that the competition between Alonso, Hamilton and Raikonen is akin to that of Prost, Senna and Mansell 20 years ago. Who would you say the former selves of today's drivers are. I'd say:


The fact that we have to ask this question kinda shows how invalid the comparison is ;)

#33 RSNS

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 18:27

The comparison is valid, I think, for Alonso and Hamilton.

Hamilton was a Senna fan and it seems he tries to emulate him. At qualifying their driving styles have similarities, as Paranoik0 pointed out.

Alonso also reminds me of Prost: calculating, very strong in racing speed and less in qualifying. He seems to be a better overtaker than Prost was, though. Also, there is less room for strategy, nowadays, so this Prost-like characteristic is difficult to compare.

Raikkonen reminds me of no one, though. Certainly not Mansell. In talking to the press he reminds me of - yes - Fangio: few words, racing is what matters. In driving I really don't know. I haven't seen enough Raikkonen on board laps or even detailed videos (I mean, slow motion and such things) or analysis of his driving technique. All I can honestly say about him is that his speed seems to me to be rather hyped. I was expecting him to trounce Massa and instead they were about equal in terms of race speed.

#34 F1Johnny

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 19:15

Originally posted by Uwe

I'm more interested in the identity of those "F1 writers". They must be a right bunch of idiots and know-nothings.


Why? Because their comparison does not agree with yours or because there should not be a comparison at all?

#35 Dunc

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 19:17

Originally posted by Kop Alonso
For me Alonso is clearly Mansell, great in he car if only his mouth was sealed out of it ...

:|


My point exactly! I also feel that Alonso is the only one of the three who could conceivably be called "Il Leone" due to his aggressive driving style.

I've also found Kimi to be kind of methodical the way Prost was, obviously this doesn't apply when he's out of the car.

#36 glorius&victorius

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 19:33

Originally posted by Dunc
F1 writers are saying that the competition between Alonso, Hamilton and Raikonen is akin to that of Prost, Senna and Mansell 20 years ago. Who would you say the former selves of today's drivers are. I'd say:

Raikonen - Prost
Alonso - Mansell
Hamilton - Senna


Which writers?

#37 Atreiu

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 19:35

I don't find that many similarities, except that there was a 4 way fight last season. But it doesn't mean it can become as interesting of fierce.

#38 Dunc

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 19:35

I can't name individuals but I've seen it in pretty much every newspaper doing an F1 piece recently.

#39 rolf123

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 19:45

Hamilton's style reminds me of Senna, as someone said - at Monaco. I was really amazed at how Hamilton kept it together during the season, at Monaco I really thought he would end up in the barriers. Amazing stuff, even though I don't like the guy because he is a total corporate wh0re and therefore his personality is nothing like Ayrton's.

Alonso I think is incredibly mature, even if you look at the grid interview when with Minardi, he sounds just like today. Very much like Prost, even to the point of view of his sulking. However, his driving style is nothing like Prost's. Prost was never agressive at the wheel, ultra smooth.

Mansell? I don't really see anyone with Mansell's style anymore.

Raikkonen? I really wonder whether he will ever be as fast and natural as he was with those Michelins.

I don't see anyone with Schumi's style either. Late braking understeer to lift-off oversteer and throttle play - nobody is like this guy.

I'd love to know a bit more about styles of Kubica, Heidfeld, Nico etc. We don't get enough onboards. Maybe someone can help here?

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#40 undersquare

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 20:47

Originally posted by rolf123
Hamilton's style reminds me of Senna, as someone said - at Monaco. I was really amazed at how Hamilton kept it together during the season, at Monaco I really thought he would end up in the barriers. Amazing stuff, even though I don't like the guy because he is a total corporate wh0re and therefore his personality is nothing like Ayrton's.


Coporate whore? Hamilton? What do you think all the fuss was about at Monaco and Hungary?

#41 rolf123

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 20:52

Originally posted by undersquare


Coporate whore? Hamilton? What do you think all the fuss was about at Monaco and Hungary?


And how much did he reveal in public? Not much. The most passionate I have ever seen him is when Steve Ryder squeezed him in the aftermath of Hungary.

Still not even a tenth of Ayrton's personality. I stand by my original statemate - Lewis is a corporate wh0re.

#42 Juan Kerr

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 21:18

Originally posted by Dunc
F1 writers are saying that the competition between Alonso, Hamilton and Raikonen is akin to that of Prost, Senna and Mansell 20 years ago. Who would you say the former selves of today's drivers are. I'd say:

Raikonen - Prost
Alonso - Mansell
Hamilton - Senna


Raikkonen = Prost are you jesting ?

Raikkonen is like Mansell if any but its a bad comparison and where's Massa ?

#43 undersquare

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 22:09

Originally posted by rolf123


And how much did he reveal in public? Not much. The most passionate I have ever seen him is when Steve Ryder squeezed him in the aftermath of Hungary.

Still not even a tenth of Ayrton's personality. I stand by my original statemate - Lewis is a corporate wh0re.


Senna didn't project anything until Berger taught him how to have fun after 5 years, whereas Hamilton is one of the most expressive drivers. Stand by it all you like, but "coprorate whore" is not going to make any more sense. It belongs with the comments about the "tantrums" he was supposed to have thrown.

#44 rolf123

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 23:14

Originally posted by undersquare


Senna didn't project anything until Berger taught him how to have fun after 5 years


er.....OK........

#45 1george

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 11:08

I wouldn't compare them. Looks that nowdays the cars are more easy to drive than in the 80's with those aeros, the turbos and less security at the tracks. Probably Mansell, Piquet, Prost and Senna were the best at their era and Alonso, Hamilton, Massa and Raikkonen could be the best in this era.

Just an opinion.

#46 e34fanatic

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 11:14

I can´t possibly recognize similarities between driving styles from different eras as is suggested here. Off course, if you are going to post quick laptimes in Monaco, it´s certain you have to dance on the edge. Hamilton was Superb to watch in Monaco, but so was Alonso. The car was on their fingertips. But you couldn´t do those things in any other car. If you try to analyze driving styles, Alonso is only one who stands out. But the differences are small. Back in the days of Senna, Prost and Mansell there was a lot more room to play with set-ups, cars weren´t that optimized. The driver had possibility to adapt the style. The window is much narrower today, as cars are more similar to each other.

#47 giacomo

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 18:00

Yaaaaawn about all this comparisons.
Alonso isn't like Prost, Raikkonen isn't like Mansell and Hamilton isn't like Senna.

Even though the 2007 season finish reminded a bit of the 1986 season, with Raikkonen in the Prost role, Hamilton as Mansell, and Alonso as Piquet.
But the driving styles and characters are not even close.

#48 genespleen

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 02:18

Originally posted by whitewaterMkII

I was thinking the same thing..
Piquet was the bomb.
I was at a course one weekend when he stuffed it into the wall in front of about 20-30 fence hangers,of which I was one of, during a practice session. He climbed out, walked over to our group and proceeded to enlighten us on all the different lines guys were trying. How they were missing it, and how they were hitting it, and how some progressed during the session, what gear they had and so forth. With a great deal of humor thrown in on some of the efforts. I was fairly new to F-1 racing, and it was one of the moments that sealed the deal that I would always be following it.
raikonnen=piquet?
Nope, doesn't compute


Great story; thanks for sharing it!

#49 genespleen

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 02:20

None of these comparisons make sense. We can't even agree what Senna, Prost, Mansell were "like"; how can we then squash Raiklewonso into all that?

#50 whitewaterMkII

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 03:20

Originally posted by 1george
I wouldn't compare them. Looks that nowdays the cars are more easy to drive than in the 80's with those aeros, the turbos and less security at the tracks. Probably Mansell, Piquet, Prost and Senna were the best at their era and Alonso, Hamilton, Massa and Raikkonen could be the best in this era.

Just an opinion.


And a good one.
Although I agree that the cars today 'look' like they are easier to drive, I know the guys today drive just as hard as that crowd did.