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#1 A Wheel Nut

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 05:43

Is a retard.

:rolleyes:

Other than that, the opening round of the V8 supercars wasn't too bad. Looks like the HSV team has lost a little performance and the HRT's look even more reliable this season.. :D

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#2 ashnathan

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 06:56

too right, hes a bloody idiot.

#3 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 06:58

hehe, interesting post!

And a 50:50 incident to which blame is being dished out!? :confused:

#4 A Wheel Nut

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 08:13

I wouldn't call it 50/50 - after that safety car period two cars went side by side through that same part of the track without incident.

Funny thing is, from the moment Lowndes was in the same vicinity as Courtney I pretty much knew he was rooted!

Courtney's driving all weekend was pathetic; including his run in with Jason Richards which cost him the lead. The guy seems to think the race will be won or lost on one corner. Granted that most of them drive like that, but Courtney takes it one step further.

#5 Sith

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 09:20

Originally posted by A Wheel Nut
I wouldn't call it 50/50 - after that safety car period two cars went side by side through that same part of the track without incident.

Funny thing is, from the moment Lowndes was in the same vicinity as Courtney I pretty much knew he was rooted!

Courtney's driving all weekend was pathetic; including his run in with Jason Richards which cost him the lead. The guy seems to think the race will be won or lost on one corner. Granted that most of them drive like that, but Courtney takes it one step further.


Wheel nut, you must be on SMACK! Or just a nutted wheel???

Lowndes has shown time and time again that he's the most impatient driver going round given how long he's been driving in this catorgory!! He's still hasn't learned... That was something you'd see in a Fujistu race with rookies...

At NO STAGE was Lowndes CLEARLY past Courtney, yet he turned across him as if he was infront with room to do that, which there CLEARLY wasn't! So if Lowndes didn't pull across, they would stayed as you put it, "side by side" like previous cars did. The road was veering left, just what was Courtney supposed to do???

Any wonder it's been so long since Lowndes won a title!!!

Fact is, he's getting shown up by his team mate...

#6 A Wheel Nut

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 11:11

It's a bit rich to say that Lowndes is the most impatient driver.. that'd be like saying that woman over there is the most pregnant, when she's in a maternity ward.

Lowndes had a fast car today, and down at turn 9 he was constantly being blocked, most notably by Kelly, Holdsworth and Courtney and to a lesser degree Winterbottom. Unlike Courtney who seems to have the gran turismo "use the cars around you and walls' to slow you down method, Lowndes doesn't usually punt others off the road.

In the end they're all as bad as each other which is something I personally enjoy. Courtney however was notably more erratic than the norm.

And about being beaten by his team mate? Lowndes and Whincup are probably the strongest team out there at the moment and come the enduro's they'll be up there again.

#7 Cplu

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 11:26

speaking of V8's , any update on the fella that is on life support?

#8 A Wheel Nut

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 11:33

Originally posted by Cplu$
speaking of V8's , any update on the fella that is on life support?

Nope. : Although the 3 guys from the utes accident today are all conscious.

#9 Cplu

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 11:39

well thats a positive.

I am shocked to see these sort of injuries in tin tops, at relatively low speeds.

concrete walls i know, but look at what F1 crashes people have *walked* away from in recent times.

the taxi crash especially looked quite innocuous really, and the poor bloke looks like he won't survive. :|

#10 27GV

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 12:46

Originally posted by Cplu$
well thats a positive.

I am shocked to see these sort of injuries in tin tops, at relatively low speeds.

concrete walls i know, but look at what F1 crashes people have *walked* away from in recent times.

the taxi crash especially looked quite innocuous really, and the poor bloke looks like he won't survive. :|


That one was awful on the driver. Apparently the belts snapped or something and he hit his head on the bar. The G-Force on Ashley was enormous, like 3-4 times what was on Kubica at Canada. Its the less spectacular ones that kill. :cry:


His Crash



#11 rookie

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 12:54

My Thoughts -

1st corner move on Richards was a bit silly, incident with Lowendes was 50/50.

Reminds me of Ambrose/Murphy at Bathurst a few years back. In both cases there is arguments for and against both drivers, just depends which driver you like best.

#12 A Wheel Nut

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 22:26

Originally posted by rookie
My Thoughts -

1st corner move on Richards was a bit silly, incident with Lowendes was 50/50.

Reminds me of Ambrose/Murphy at Bathurst a few years back. In both cases there is arguments for and against both drivers, just depends which driver you like best.

True that.

It was Courtney's fault. :D

#13 A Wheel Nut

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Posted 24 February 2008 - 22:27

Originally posted by 27GV


That one was awful on the driver. Apparently the belts snapped or something and he hit his head on the bar. The G-Force on Ashley was enormous, like 3-4 times what was on Kubica at Canada. Its the less spectacular ones that kill. :cry:


His Crash

IOne of the news reports I said reported that it was a drivers side impact with the wall. Did they switch to LHD, or is the report wrong?

#14 hsvone

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 00:23

All Ford drivers are retards. :p

#15 hsvone

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 00:27

But yeah I agree with WN. Courtney is too agressive. He's not driving in the Fujitsu feeder class anymore. Anyway he helped the Holdens with taking himself, Lowndes, and Winterbottom out in one manouevre. :up:

#16 ClubmanGT

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 00:43

Sorry, but if you look at the names involved in the incidents over the weekend, one keeps coming up again and again - Courtney. In race one, he hit Richo, and that was six of one, half a dozen of the other - it was from a way back, but he did have the car up to the b-pillar. The thing was that unless he had made contact, there was no way Courtney was going to make it through the chicane - it was a nothing pass.

On Sunday though, he was a menace. He tangled with Murphy - not once, but twice - which was just unbelievable - with no penalty. And in the Lowndes incident, he hit Craig on the rear wheel, so that gives you an idea of how far in front Craig was ahead of Courtney.

You look at Cooper's accident, and you appreciate how much of an effort people make to make the sport safe. Then you look at idiots like Courtney, who can't pass someone without hitting them, and make moves from miles back at the last minute and barge their way through, and you realise that someone has to do something before someone gets hurt. Endorse his license, make him sit out a round, and nip this in the bud, before he does something really stupid.

#17 PLAYLIFE

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 00:44

Courtney drove badly all weekend, firstly in race 1 with Richards when he had a clear lead and didn't need to take such a risk into the Senna chicane. Then he knocked Murphy and was it he who spun around R.Kelly too?

When he was passed by one of the HRT cars in Race 2 he nudged them a few times, and he should have backed off with Lowndes as he wasn't going to get past going into Victoria Park as Lowndes had better traction and momentum out of Adelaide hairpin. Yes he's a racer but I think he has the red mist decend when he is passed and beaten.

#18 AussieF1

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 01:18

Originally posted by 27GV


That one was awful on the driver. Apparently the belts snapped or something and he hit his head on the bar. The G-Force on Ashley was enormous, like 3-4 times what was on Kubica at Canada. Its the less spectacular ones that kill. :cry:


Has the seatbelt thing been confirmed?

My father and I were talking about this last night, and our thoughts were either that the belts broke or the seat sheared off its mountings.

It was certainly a hard hit, but I wouldn't expect to see these sorts of injuries to a driver securely strapped in.

#19 Sith

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 02:08

Originally posted by rookie

Reminds me of Ambrose/Murphy at Bathurst a few years back.


And in both cases the track was veering left and the guy on outside was cutting across like he was already passed..

I'd like to know why turn 8 has never had any type of tyre barrier or foaming cushion absortion wall against it from day 1! I mean it's been billed as one of the fastest corners anywhere in Australia, and yet they've deemed it to be "o.k" all these years when we've had lots of cars smack into it over the years... Now a driver has lost his life as result.. It's always the way though... They keep their heads in the sands about things like this, and unfortunetly it takes a death until they react...

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#20 JForce

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 02:47

Originally posted by Sith


And in both cases the track was veering left and the guy on outside was cutting across like he was already passed..

I'd like to know why turn 8 has never had any type of tyre barrier or foaming cushion absortion wall against it from day 1! I mean it's been billed as one of the fastest corners anywhere in Australia, and yet they've deemed it to be "o.k" all these years when we've had lots of cars smack into it over the years... Now a driver has lost his life as result.. It's always the way though... They keep their heads in the sands about things like this, and unfortunetly it takes a death until they react...


If you mean turn 9, the real fast right-hander that's mid-way through the straight, then I think that it's all relative. First of all, it's a street circuit, and in all the tons of crashes there's never been any fatalities. It may just be a case of a freak accident, a one-in-a-million chance with that particular crash.

I'd like to see that wall made of SAFER or whatever that stuff is they use at Indy, it makes sense, but to be fair the drivers are pretty good through there.

And yeah, I agree that Courtney needs reigning in before he gets any worse.

#21 armchair expert

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 03:25

Originally posted by Sith


And in both cases the track was veering left and the guy on outside was cutting across like he was already passed..

I'd like to know why turn 8 has never had any type of tyre barrier or foaming cushion absortion wall against it from day 1! I mean it's been billed as one of the fastest corners anywhere in Australia, and yet they've deemed it to be "o.k" all these years when we've had lots of cars smack into it over the years... Now a driver has lost his life as result.. It's always the way though... They keep their heads in the sands about things like this, and unfortunetly it takes a death until they react...


AFAIK, Ashley Cooper is still alive, albeit critical.

#22 Mat

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 04:24

Originally posted by Sith
I'd like to know why turn 8 has never had any type of tyre barrier or foaming cushion absortion wall against it from day 1! I mean it's been billed as one of the fastest corners anywhere in Australia, and yet they've deemed it to be "o.k" all these years when we've had lots of cars smack into it over the years... Now a driver has lost his life as result.. It's always the way though... They keep their heads in the sands about things like this, and unfortunetly it takes a death until they react...


Tyre barriers would probably make the situation worse. A tyre barrier will catch the car and bounce it back onto the track or even in the air (see the Ute crash on the Sunday as an example, this crash was nasty!).

The only thing they can do to improve that corner is add a SAFER barrier system (but we havent seen that installed outside of the USA yet).

#23 Mat

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 05:02

Originally posted by armchair expert


AFAIK, Ashley Cooper is still alive, albeit critical.


His passing was just announced now on abc radio.

RIP Ashley Cooper....

#24 armchair expert

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 05:18

Originally posted by Mat


His passing was just announced now on abc radio.

RIP Ashley Cooper....


Not good.

#25 gerry nassar

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 05:26

Originally posted by Mat


His passing was just announced now on abc radio.

RIP Ashley Cooper....


Thats pretty sad. RIP :(

#26 Lukin

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 08:05

It's very sad. We should have learnt from previous accidents.

#27 A Wheel Nut

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 08:07

RIP.

#28 A Wheel Nut

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 08:10

My understanding of turn 8 is that they've pretty much opened it up as much as they can without changing the layout of the circuit. What other options are there for that particular corner?

#29 ClubmanGT

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 08:39

Originally posted by A Wheel Nut
My understanding of turn 8 is that they've pretty much opened it up as much as they can without changing the layout of the circuit. What other options are there for that particular corner?


You know, I've always wondered why they don't use a SAFER barrier on that turn. Can someone enlighten me? They'll have to do something now, surely.

#30 A Wheel Nut

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 09:15

Originally posted by JForce
I'd like to see that wall made of SAFER or whatever that stuff is they use at Indy, it makes sense, but to be fair the drivers are pretty good through there.

In the recent past, I recall most accidents have either been through driver error or car failure.. the last incident I can recall where an incident was caused by stupidity was Greg Murphy and someone else when they tried to go side by side.. I recall Skaife got caught up in it as well, but I can't recall who put Murph in the wall.. was it Ingall?

#31 potmotr

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 09:25

Adelaide seems to have far more crashes than any other circuit on the calender.
Turn 8 offers no room whatsoever for errors at the very fastest part of the circuit.
What would be the implications of pushing the outside wall back much further?

#32 A Wheel Nut

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 09:30

Originally posted by potmotr
Adelaide seems to have far more crashes than any other circuit on the calender.
Turn 8 offers no room whatsoever for errors at the very fastest part of the circuit.
What would be the implications of pushing the outside wall back much further?

I think they'd need to demolish some buildings?

#33 kar

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 09:31

Originally posted by potmotr
Adelaide seems to have far more crashes than any other circuit on the calender.
Turn 8 offers no room whatsoever for errors at the very fastest part of the circuit.
What would be the implications of pushing the outside wall back much further?


Need to get government position to develop in the parklands. But given someone died it would probably be ok'd.

#34 potmotr

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 09:45

Originally posted by 27GV


Apparently the belts snapped or something and he hit his head on the bar. The G-Force on Ashley was enormous, like 3-4 times what was on Kubica at Canada.


Can anyone provide any further information on this theory that the belts snapped?
I find it hard to believe that the G-forces were higher than Kubica's. Is there anything to support this theory also?

#35 Lukin

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 10:24

It's hard to know without comparing ADR's (not that they are fitted in V8's) but the V8 washed 90% of it's speed off instantly whereas Kubica still had fair speed travelling across the track (from the right to the left). G Force being the rate of change of velocity it could be that Ashley Cooper experienced more.

From looking at the track map it could be better if the track did revert back to the f1 configuration. The run to the quick RH corner would be less than currently is, though by how much it's hard to know (the acceleration does taper off after 160 so it could only be arriving 30 km/h slower) and if they are slower on arrival they will just wash off less speed (if any) so it's a hard one. I'd be inclined to keep the current configuration and add a surfers paradise style complex which exits through Turn 8. It would be artificial but there is limited space to do anything else. If you open the corner out they will just use more space on exit.

Of course there needs to be more done on the exit with some different barriers and change the profile of the inside kerb so it doesn't fire you off into the fence.

http://upload.wikime...it_Adelaide.png

#36 jeremy durward

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 11:05

Originally posted by Lukin

From looking at the track map it could be better if the track did revert back to the f1 configuration. The run to the quick RH corner would be less than currently is, though by how much it's hard to know (the acceleration does taper off after 160 so it could only be arriving 30 km/h slower) and if they are slower on arrival they will just wash off less speed (if any) so it's a hard one. I'd be inclined to keep the current configuration and add a surfers paradise style complex which exits through Turn 8. It would be artificial but there is limited space to do anything else. If you open the corner out they will just use more space on exit.

Of course there needs to be more done on the exit with some different barriers and change the profile of the inside kerb so it doesn't fire you off into the fence.

http://upload.wikime...it_Adelaide.png


the rh turn in the gp cuircuit was also tighter, although yuo can't see that in a map and also had run off.

the wall could be moved back from where it is but that would require the removal of the stand behind the wall. dequetiville tce is about twice as wide as the track there, they could at least use a car width extra, tyhe trick would be that you couldn't use a curb on the outside, as that would launch cars and you can't trust v8 drivers to not just drive over any line you paint and then your back where you started only faster.

#37 Cplu

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 11:14

the straight leading up to that corner was also much shorter - but runoff was the key.

I think i remember reading they were considering using the old layout from next year (need more corners for more people, the crowds are getting too large was one comment)

this incident (RIP btw) may accelerate that decision....

#38 fiat124

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 11:17

My take on the Adelaide circuit is that drivers have to remember it is a street circuit, it has concrete barriers like most street circuits, so drivers should adjust their passing maneuvers accordingly !

That is, unlike conventional, more open race circuits, there is very little run-off space !

#39 jeremy durward

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 12:10

Originally posted by Cplu$
the straight leading up to that corner was also much shorter - but runoff was the key.

I think i remember reading they were considering using the old layout from next year (need more corners for more people, the crowds are getting too large was one comment)

this incident (RIP btw) may accelerate that decision....


yeah bring back the proper track, even better overtaking at the end of the straight less mickey mouse feel to it and safer to boot

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#40 potmotr

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 12:14

Originally posted by fiat124
My take on the Adelaide circuit is that drivers have to remember it is a street circuit, it has concrete barriers like most street circuits, so drivers should adjust their passing maneuvers accordingly !


Fair call, but the Ashley Cooper accident involved only one car.

#41 Mat

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Posted 25 February 2008 - 23:06

Posted Image
Motorsport News (http://enews.mnews.com.au/)

#42 PLAYLIFE

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 00:26

They should tighten the apex of Turn 8, there were so many high speed accidents there with no run-off I'm surprised it hadn't happened sooner.

Also, is there any reason why there is armco on the inside of the corner? Perhaps they could do the same thing as has been done with Monaco, removing the inside wall/armco replaced with a flat curb which will also open the visibility of the exit, I'm sure it would help in some way.

The old Brewery Bend was far safer, much tighter and a better corner in my opinion, the only problem being the massive launch pad ripple strips they had there on both the inside and outside. Plus as stated earlier, having the full length Brabham Straight would make for a far better racetrack.

#43 A Wheel Nut

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 01:21

There was an article in today's Herald Sun about moving from a production car series to a purpose built car series like NASCAR. It's unlikely, but does anyone think it would be a good thing?

#44 Mat

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 02:10

Originally posted by A Wheel Nut
There was an article in today's Herald Sun about moving from a production car series to a purpose built car series like NASCAR. It's unlikely, but does anyone think it would be a good thing?


Cattach just said that was an option if it is deemed that the cars need to be made safer.

That article also mentions that Cattach and Clipsal CEO (Daniels) have already been discssing a barrier system at Turn 8.

No mention of a re-introduction of the original Grand Prix circuit.

#45 JForce

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 05:20

Originally posted by A Wheel Nut
There was an article in today's Herald Sun about moving from a production car series to a purpose built car series like NASCAR. It's unlikely, but does anyone think it would be a good thing?


It basically is though. The cars are so similar in so many ways that they're nearly NASCAR cars anyway.

#46 Sith

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 10:23

Originally posted by potmotr
Adelaide seems to have far more crashes than any other circuit on the calender.
Turn 8 offers no room whatsoever for errors at the very fastest part of the circuit.
What would be the implications of pushing the outside wall back much further?


There are none... Dequiteville tce is twice as wide as what you see! There's another 4 lanes of road behind the barriers.. That's what makes it such a joke!! The could move it back, as well as adding a "safer" barrier without effecting the width of the racetrack.. It's all abit too late now....

#47 jeremy durward

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 10:42

Originally posted by Sith


There are none... Dequiteville tce is twice as wide as what you see! There's another 4 lanes of road behind the barriers.. That's what makes it such a joke!! The could move it back, as well as adding a "safer" barrier without effecting the width of the racetrack.. It's all abit too late now....


the problem is what do you put at the outside of the corner? a kerb could launch cars and a white line means nothing to these drivers. but your right about the width, i wondered when they first did it and can only come to one conclusion, extra seating = more money

#48 ClubmanGT

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 10:50

What about the adhesive surface used at Paul Ricard HTTT?

#49 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 10:53

With the wider exit room...

You could have a bolt-out tarmac lane (like the bolt-out pedestrian islands etc.) and put down some astro-turf, so any car looking for the run-off tarmac would have to run over a very non grippy surface - Tilke style?

Slap down a twisty chicane and it should be a much slower corner hopefully.

#50 potmotr

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 11:12

Originally posted by V8 Fireworks
With the wider exit room...

Slap down a twisty chicane and it should be a much slower corner hopefully.


No no no! No chicanes! I think they need to try and retain the character of the corner but remove the present level of danger. It should be a great challenge for the driver but should certainly not have fatal consquences should he get it slightly wrong. Pushing the outside wall back would solve that completely. Where there is a will there is almost always a way. As for the high kerb, Brad Jones rolled there on the old GP circuit and from memory Mark Skaife also did in a Nissan GT-R. You can see the effect of a high kerb even with run off on this old clip. Scroll to 0.48" to see Nicola Larini take flight...