535 replies to this topic

[Uwe]

Or another piece of crap from Marca?

Marca article

Google translation into english

[LostProphet]

This has been all over the forum today.

I'd be surprised if this happened and Marca got ahold of it before anyone else, but we'll see.

Until McLaren/Mercedes/Ron make it clear one way or the other, we won't know.

[makroncommander]

It's marca, what can we say? I'd wait till it shows up in autosport.

[Norm]

Well I believe that there is some truth in this, just not how Marca states.

Last year took it's toll on Denis and there have been rumours that Mercedes was going to take over the team going back a year or two. Denis has had a lot to deal with in the last year with the team and in his personal life so a step away from the sport may be what is needed for him.

It will be sad to see him leave. He has done a lot for McLaren. Fan or not, I take my hat off to the man if this article brings any truth.

[LostProphet]

Originally posted by Norm
Well I believe that there is some truth in this, just not how Marca states.

Last year took it's toll on Denis and there have been rumours that Mercedes was going to take over the team going back a year or two. Denis has had a lot to deal with in the last year with the team and in his personal life so a step away from the sport may be what is needed for him.

It will be sad to see him leave. He has done a lot for McLaren. Fan or not, I take my hat off to the man if this article brings any truth.

Good post

I've always liked Dennis (and it annoys me greatly when people criticise 'Ronspeak' (just because a man isn't good at public speaking and needs to do so in a certain way is not a reason for crucifiction) and the man's integrity, when they don't even know him and ignore comments from all those who do).
It's one of the reasons for my support of McLaren (conversely Todt and Montezemolo were why I never warmed to Ferrari) and I was a little saddened to see the amount that was rested on Ron's shoulders last year. I very much doubt that I could have withstood such an onslaught from within and without, so my hat is well and truly off to him.

I just hope that if he is retiring, it's because he's chosen to and not because he's being forced out. It wouldn't be a fitting end to a chapter in McLaren's history that has bought the team so much success both on the track and off it.

[Raelene]

can't see him being fired at all. No matter what happened last year, he has overall done an excellent job (and this coming from someone who can't stand him)

WIth all the problems of last year and then his separation from his wife, I wouldn't be surprised if he resigned.

[WACKO]

Ron is still part owner of the team and in that position very powerful and important to the team. He still is the man in the middle. Technically, Mercedes still don't have the majority of the shares. It would take the nod from the Bahrain investors and Mansour Ojjeh to really push things. It wouldn't be in the interest of either the team or Mercedes and it won't happen for the above reason. Norbert Haug is too busy and is only too happy to give directions from the sidelines. Timing would be rather bad too don't you think?

[Johny Bravo]

Originally posted by LostProphet

...and I was a little saddened to see the amount that was rested on Ron's shoulders last year...

Ever thought about maybe part of that 'amount' was on his shoulders by himself?...

Either his so often pronounced integrity was not up to the expectations or he lost control.

[Raelene]

conversely Todt and Montezemolo were why I never warmed to Ferrari

after reading your post about people criticising other people, not knowing them etc... I'm really surprised the you use the same reasons for not warming to another team :

[JForce]

Originally posted by Raelene
can't see him being fired at all. No matter what happened last year, he has overall done an excellent job (and this coming from someone who can't stand him)

WIth all the problems of last year and then his separation from his wife, I wouldn't be surprised if he resigned.

Bingo. I have no love for Ron, but last year aside, he's done a wonderful job for McLaren.

[FLB]

Originally posted by Raelene
can't see him being fired at all. No matter what happened last year, he has overall done an excellent job (and this coming from someone who can't stand him)

WIth all the problems of last year and then his separation from his wife, I wouldn't be surprised if he resigned.

Was the announcement about divorce or a seperation? Could she have told him 'It's the team or it's me'?

[djd]

Could it be related to this:

"Daimler's Mercedes to take over majority of McLaren racing stable"

http://www.forbes.co...afx4536784.html

[volumenzero]

Originally posted by makroncommander
It's marca, what can we say? I'd wait till it shows up in autosport.

do you read Marca often ?

[Sébastien]

Originally posted by djd
Could it be related to this:

"Daimler's Mercedes to take over majority of McLaren racing stable"

http://www.forbes.co...afx4536784.html

Old news from Forbes that they nicked from AMuS (check the date jan 16th)

[volumenzero]

Originally posted by WACKO
Ron is still part owner of the team and in that position very powerful and important to the team. He still is the man in the middle. Technically, Mercedes still don't have the majority of the shares. It would take the nod from the Bahrain investors and Mansour Ojjeh to really push things. It wouldn't be in the interest of either the team or Mercedes and it won't happen for the above reason. Norbert Haug is too busy and is only too happy to give directions from the sidelines. Timing would be rather bad too don't you think?

Lewis's father could do the job the same as Ron, I mean, what will be the difference?

[512 TR]

We need a special smiley when it's official. This one doesn't make it justice -->

[volumenzero]

Originally posted by Uwe
Or another piece of crap from Marca?

Marca article

Google translation into english

This BB is full of British readers of Marca. I used to think that most British only knew English ...

[MONTOYASPEED]

Originally posted by makroncommander
It's marca, what can we say? I'd wait till it shows up in autosport.

Like when autosport was the first one to report that McLaren was banned?

[volumenzero]

Originally posted by 512 TR
We need a special smiley when it's official. This one doesn't make it justice -->

I'll make you happy ...











I really like the one of the pig ... he really seems to be enjoying a lot ...


maybe we could do a "stupid poll" ... like many others in this BB lately ...

[volumenzero]

Originally posted by MONTOYASPEED


Like when autosport was the first one to report that McLaren was banned?

I remember that one ... I erased the color of the F5 in my keyboard ...

[Sébastien]

Originally posted by 512 TR
We need a special smiley when it's official. This one doesn't make it justice -->

There seem to be pictures of Ronzo already leaving the building ;)

[Melbourne Park]

If Ron wanted to leave, the time was last year, in order to avoid McLaren being punished for the spy scandal.

So I presume if its true, that he doesn't want to go. Somehow I don't think he will.

[512 TR]

Originally posted by volumenzero


I'll make you happy ...











I really like the one of the pig ... he really seems to be enjoying a lot ...


maybe we could do a "stupid poll" ... like many others in this BB lately ...

The pig is great but it still doesn't make it justice.

[Apocalypse]

I don't like Ron either, but he belongs to F1.

[Sébastien]

Originally posted by Melbourne Park
If Ron wanted to leave, the time was last year, in order to avoid McLaren being punished for the spy scandal.

Yeah right bring up that lame "If Ron left it would have all gone away" story again

[Melbourne Park]

Originally posted by Sébastien

Yeah right bring up that lame "If Ron left it would have all gone away" story again

Max was saying it I thought. But normally if a CEO accepts total responsibility and resigns, the follow on changes quite a lot. We'll never know though. But I doubt he'll leave anyway.

[armchair expert]

Originally posted by Apocalypse
I don't like Ron either, but he belongs to F1.

I'm not a huge fan of his either, but I respect what he has achieved. I'd rather he stayed.

Love them or hate them, F1 needs its characters, it would be very dull without Ron, Flavio, Sir Frank, Fernando, Kimi etc, etc.

[Sébastien]

Originally posted by Melbourne Park
Max was saying it I thought.

No that was what the alu-hat brigade were insinuating (check grandprix.com for details).

Originally posted by Melbourne Park
But normally if a CEO accepts total responsibility and resigns, the follow on changes quite a lot. We'll never know though.

Wouldn't have made a single difference in this case I am sure, but you're right we'll never know.

Originally posted by Melbourne Park
But I doubt he'll leave anyway.

Agreed, I don't think he'll do so either but if that is good for McLaren or Ron for that matter I dunno.

[Melbourne Park]

Originally posted by Sébastien
Agreed, I don't think he'll do so either but if that is good for McLaren or Ron for that matter I dunno.

I doubt him leaving would hurt in the short term, but it might over time. Certainly he made some bad mistakes last year in his approach to the spy scandal. If it was viewed as a war, he certainly lost it. Do such senior people have used by dates? I think they do, but as they get old, maybe they should change their activity somewhat. But with Whitmarsh Ron has already pretty much done that I suppose. Goodness knows what would happen if the team was actively lead by MB staff.

[Durant]

2007 should have been Mclarens greatest success in a decade. The start of a new era of dominance. It didnt happen because of mismanagment. Ron put his personal bias ahead of the teams objective and payed the price. So he deserves to be sacked.

[vsubravet]

Originally posted by Melbourne Park
[B]I doubt him leaving would hurt in the short term, but it might over time. Certainly he made some bad mistakes last year in his approach to the spy scandal. If it was viewed as a war, he certainly lost it. Do such senior people have used by dates? I think they do, but as they get old, maybe they should change their activity somewhat. But with Whitmarsh Ron has already pretty much done that I supposeGoodness knows what would happen if the team was actively lead by MB staff.

That would turn away many die-hard "McLaren" fans. RD means a lot to McLaren and its legions of fans; firing/sacking him is a sure-fire way to turn-off many fans of the team. But then, who the hell can fire McLaren? Mercedes does not have the power to do that.

[Norm]

Originally posted by Durant
2007 should have been Mclarens greatest success in a decade.

yea, I guess '98 and '99 were nothing years.

[Norm]

Originally posted by volumenzero


Lewis's father could do the job the same as Ron, I mean, what will be the difference?

Leave it to you to come up with a dumb comment like that.

You really have no idea what Dennis has done for McLaren and the sport over the last 27 years do you?

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by Norm


yea, I guess '98 and '99 were nothing years.

That's nearly a decade

[lustigson]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
That's nearly a decade

That's 8 years, to be precise. 8 years in which McLaren missed out on 3 WDC's ('03, '05 and '07).

[LostProphet]

Originally posted by Raelene


after reading your post about people criticising other people, not knowing them etc... I'm really surprised the you use the same reasons for not warming to another team :

Um ... no?

I get annoyed that people use the way RD speaks as a dubious method to bash him and the team.
I never said anything about Todt. Personally, I find the way that he dealt with the media to be rather stand-offish and he came across as a bit arrogant. There's no doubt he is a brilliant man, which I fully recognise, but it has been said by other motoring journalists (who are far more qualified to comment than you or I) that that is exactly how Todt comes across.

I fail to see the connection.

[Maldwyn]

Originally posted by Uwe
Or another piece of crap from Marca?

Given that Ron was talking of retirement some time ago, and at that time said "McLaren has lots of ambitions in many areas, and that is easier to fulfil if there is a stronger line with Mercedes-Benz" this is hardly "news".

[HP]

Originally posted by Raelene
can't see him being fired at all. No matter what happened last year, he has overall done an excellent job (and this coming from someone who can't stand him)

WIth all the problems of last year and then his separation from his wife, I wouldn't be surprised if he resigned.

What he said

He wants to go out on a high though. If he indeed retires now it just ended up the other way around. This I think would be a bit harsh, especially if he is being forced out. But I said last year, it would be better for him to retire rather sooner than later. If one builds a corporation, it's easy to become part of the corporate culture, eg. everybody is replaceable and largely forgotten, the day one leaves.

[F1Fanatic.co.uk]

Denied by Mercedes today.

In German
Google translation

If Mercedes had planned to take over McLaren and force Dennis out, surely the worst possible time to effect such a change would be right at the beginning of a new season?

[Perigee]

How people have come away from last season think Ron Dennis has maintained personal "integrity" clearly hasn't been watching the same sport as me.

Whilst he personally is not implicated in spygate, his company very much have, to a senior level, yet Dennis has yet to admit this, continuing to peddle the lie that McLaren have done nothing wrong.

How is this showing personal integrity?

If he could put his hands up and say "I'm sorry, McLaren acted improperly", I would be happy to accept he is a man of reasonable integrity, but whilst he continues to deny what we all now KNOW is the truth, he is a man in denial, and quite blatantly devoid of integrity.

This isn't a personal attack...I think the man has achieved incredible things in the sport, and I take my hat off to him in many ways, but what you cannot logically conclude is that he remains a man of integrity while he continues to cover his eyes and ears to the conclusions of Spygate.

[kar]

Ron Dennis had a very, very bad year last year no doubt. But for me that doesn't wipe out the decades of achievement.

He is probably rightfully being shitcanned, or retired, whatever.

But I think it is sad for the sport to be losing one of its historic characters. And whatever the headline is on Dennis' career he has booked himself a place among the most important in F1 history.

He lost any hope of a knighthood last year though. And maybe that is price enough now and with his leaving F1 it's time to let it go.

[Perigee]

Indeed - and it seems such a shame that Dennis is letting his pride damage his integrity.

His achievements are numerous and impressive. If he could swallow his pride for a moment and simply say something to the effect of "I do not believe I have personally done anything wrong, (except my past denial of McLaren doing anything wrong) but my company has done many things wrong, and as a company we admit that", then his integrity - and his chances of a gong (if he even wants one...) would remain in tact.

Pride comes before a fall, as they say, and he has unfortunately fallen further than most. It's a shame.

[Orin]

Aaah, the Spanish press... Perhaps they should begin every story with "Once upon a time..." and at least be honest about the crap they're spewing. Notice they're complaining that McLaren should have given #1 status to Alonso, this is the guy who never wanted #1 status, right? Was Dennis supposed to force this advantage upon him against his will? It's a case of having your paella and eating it... and then denying it... and then asking for seconds.

[ensign14]

I assume the Spanish media only discovered F1 about six years ago, and their journalists covering it are of a similar mental age or something.

[lukywill]

it´s funny: people speaking about 'spanish' media are the one´s that can´t read spanish language.

there´s smoke and we will see the fire. denis is probably stepping away in the near future: i don´t think mercedes is very happy with recent failures. mclaren will try to win this year´s championship for him to go at the end of this year. very difficult thing to do unless they dominate - ferrari have a most experienced kimi.

[glorius&victorius]

If anything Ron Dennis will never be fired... he will be promoted to the board of directors (or something similar) at McLaren.

With his record and achievements for McLaren in F1 the word "fire" simply does not apply. Understood?

[Red ITC]

First of all, I don't see McLaren as strong without Dennis as it is with him; his departure would be a negative. That is not good for Merc, who are beating BMW handily in F1 without having to buy, fund and manage 100% of their F1 activities. Thus why would Merc spend a very large sum on taking complete control (when they don't have to) of a team deprived of it's important and visible boss? Does not compute, especially when you consider what Merc has to do to survive the next decade, which is cut the CO2 emissions of its core products by half. Not much F1 technology swap potential there, KERS be damned.

As for Nasty Ron's K, he earned it fair and square years ago, by Mika's double at the latest. There must be a reason why it was not forthcoming...

[Hacklerf]

Originally posted by JForce


Bingo. I have no love for Ron, but last year aside, he's done a wonderful job for McLaren.

[Durant]

He hasnt delivered a WC for almost a decade, isnt that considered a bad job?

[Perigee]

Originally posted by Red ITC
As for Nasty Ron's K, he earned it fair and square years ago, by Mika's double at the latest. There must be a reason why it was not forthcoming...

Erm - because he has not admitted McLaren did anything wrong in Spygate...

Also, presiding over 2 WDCs by Mika doesn't warrant a gong. It is not the "English Formula 1 national team", it is a private team, and not a national entity. (Mind you, I don't think the gongs handed out willy-nilly to recent cricket and rugby successes were justified either).

Originally posted by glorius&victorius
If anything Ron Dennis will never be fired... he will be promoted to the board of directors (or something similar) at McLaren.

How can he be "promoted" from being CEO and Chairman of McLaren to *any* other position? You cannot be "promoted" across or downwards. (Although a lot of people in all industries have no doubt been told they are being 'promoted' when , indeed, they are being moved sideways or downwards...)

Did you mean "promoted to the board of directors (or something similar) at Mercedes." perhaps?