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Ron Dennis fired?


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#51 Welsh

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 11:44

Originally posted by Durant
He hasnt delivered a WC for almost a decade, isnt that considered a bad job?


Nor has Sir Frank Williams but I don't see people clamouring for him to stand down.

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#52 lukywill

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 11:46

Originally posted by Welsh


Nor has Sir Frank Williams but I don't see people clamoring for him to stand down.


no. but mario went away instead.

#53 Perigee

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 11:47

Originally posted by Welsh


Nor has Sir Frank Williams but I don't see people clamouring for him to stand down.

Frank Williams' integrity has never been questioned. Plenty of questions re Ron's integrity, as his refusal to admit his company did anything wrong in Spygate confirmed.

In summary - Dennis is the higher achiever, and Williams is the more honest.

#54 Orin

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 11:50

Originally posted by lukywill
it´s funny: people speaking about 'spanish' media are the one´s that can´t read spanish language.

there´s smoke and we will see the fire. denis is probably stepping away in the near future: i don´t think mercedes is very happy with recent failures. mclaren will try to win this year´s championship for him to go at the end of this year. very difficult thing to do unless they dominate - ferrari have a most experienced kimi.


Dennis is 60 years old and has long said he's looking to ease away from the sport, perhaps Marca ought to re-publish this article every six months until it gets the chance to shout: "SCOOP!"???

#55 Durant

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 12:01

Originally posted by Welsh


Nor has Sir Frank Williams but I don't see people clamouring for him to stand down.



Williams hasnt had the budget, backing or drivers Mclaren have had. Less expectations. Mclaren had it all and failed.

#56 Stephan

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 12:05

Originally posted by Durant



Williams hasnt had the budget, backing or drivers Mclaren have had. Less expectations. Mclaren had it all and failed.


Williams had the budget, backing and drivers from 2001 - 2004. They failed back then according to your definition.
Last year for McLaren, most of the failing was done by the drivers.

#57 Perigee

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 12:15

Originally posted by Durant



Williams hasnt had the budget, backing or drivers Mclaren have had. Less expectations. Mclaren had it all and failed.

That just means Ron was more successful in obtaining backing/sponsorship etc than Frank!

Their on-track success should be measured equally...not on the basis of who had more money to spend, as getting the money to spend is also part of the job!

(and you won't see me standing up for Dennis too often!)

#58 lukywill

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 12:35

Originally posted by Stephan


Williams had the budget, backing and drivers from 2001 - 2004. They failed back then according to your definition.
Last year for McLaren, most of the failing was done by the drivers.


williams failed with bmw as recently mclaren failed with mercedes. bmw went away, frank stayed as always as williams capo. i expect mercedes will take some action.

#59 Chiara

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 12:49

Well how many team bosses can claim to have won a championship in the last 10 years....? :p I'll wager a large bet you can count them on the fingers of one hand ;) does that mean all those that haven't are rubbish at their jobs and need to be sacked?

I don't think it means they are necessarily doing a rubbish job, just that there is someone somewhere doing it just a tiny bit better.

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#60 mstar

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 13:02

i thougt he took some days off to sort out his pending divorce i cannot believe he is going to be asked to leave, it will be rons decision not anyone elses

#61 jonpollak

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 13:15

What's gonna happen when a Spanish driver makes it to NASCAR
:drunk:
¿Aye CARUMBA?

Jp

#62 Durant

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 13:18

Originally posted by Stephan


Williams had the budget, backing and drivers from 2001 - 2004. They failed back then according to your definition.
Last year for McLaren, most of the failing was done by the drivers.


Ye thats 3 years, not a decade.

#63 lukywill

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 13:22

Originally posted by jonpollak
What's gonna happen when a Spanish driver makes it to NASCAR
:drunk:
¿Aye CARUMBA?

Jp


nascar doesn´t sell at all in spain. not even with a f1 champion as alonso.

and look at itv last year: not tired of anthony? :lol:

#64 ensign14

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 15:57

So who else thinks this is Marca's revenge for the whole racism row?

#65 tidytracks

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 16:19

Originally posted by ensign14
So who else thinks this is Marca's revenge for the whole racism row?


How is it revenge?

It's just terrible journalism.

That, to me, makes it more of a slur on Marca than on Ron.

#66 lukywill

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 18:02

Originally posted by ensign14
So who else thinks this is Marca's revenge for the whole racism row?


grow up. alonso is very happy now without mclaren.

#67 volumenzero

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 18:06

Originally posted by glorius&victorius
If anything Ron Dennis will never be fired... he will be promoted to the board of directors (or something similar) at McLaren.

With his record and achievements for McLaren in F1 the word "fire" simply does not apply. Understood?


In Maraca they don't say of Dennis being fired, but being promoted to other tasks ...

#68 hobbes

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 18:13

Well knowing from football, Marca is not exactly the most reliable source!

#69 lukywill

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 18:15

mclaren can´t win championships and they had in the team the recent champions. but kimi was champion with ferrari and alonso with renault.

being mercedes one of the most spenders it´s a failure.

#70 volumenzero

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 18:17

Originally posted by hobbes
Well knowing from football, Marca is not exactly the most reliable source!


I'm not sure ... but he should wait until Ron Dennis says something. Until then we cannot assure that Marca is writing bullshit.

#71 hobbes

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 18:18

Originally posted by lukywill
mclaren can´t win championships and they had in the team the recent champions. but kimi was champion with ferrari and alonso with renault.

being mercedes one of the most spenders it´s a failure.


The beauty of a championship is that you are not the only contender. Whole point is to be better than the rest. Every team improves each season, question is: who improved the most? (ignoring luck)

#72 volumenzero

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 18:20

We can't deny that Ferrari, Toyota and McLaren are the big spenders ... they have the biggest budgets, and obviously have more chances of winning a championship than Minardi used to, for example.

Remember that the money buys Wind tunnels, simulators, engineers and the best drivers ...

#73 scottb32

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 18:57

Originally posted by Orin
Dennis is 60 years old and has long said he's looking to ease away from the sport, perhaps Marca ought to re-publish this article every six months until it gets the chance to shout: "SCOOP!"???


Someone who knows how the media works.

RE: Ron - IMO: I don't think he'll retire. He's pissed, and he wants another crown so he can rub it in someone's face (we all know who). Especially having cars numbered 22 and 23 and with smaller pit stalls.

As to Ron's integrity - there's a huge difference between what happened at McLaren and what happened at, for example, Enron. Sometimes I think people are a little naive as to the level of "intelligence" that goes on in any industry.

#74 volumenzero

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 19:03

Originally posted by scottb32


Someone who knows how the media works.

RE: Ron - IMO: I don't think he'll retire. He's pissed, and he wants another crown so he can rub it in someone's face (we all know who). Especially having cars numbered 22 and 23 and with smaller pit stalls.

As to Ron's integrity - there's a huge difference between what happened at McLaren and what happened at, for example, Enron. Sometimes I think people are a little naive as to the level of "intelligence" that goes on in any industry.


something is true ... McLaren did have access to privileged Ferrari info, and Ron denied it ...

#75 Raelene

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 19:43

Originally posted by LostProphet


Um ... no?

I get annoyed that people use the way RD speaks as a dubious method to bash him and the team.
I never said anything about Todt. Personally, I find the way that he dealt with the media to be rather stand-offish and he came across as a bit arrogant. There's no doubt he is a brilliant man, which I fully recognise, but it has been said by other motoring journalists (who are far more qualified to comment than you or I) that that is exactly how Todt comes across.

I fail to see the connection.


I suggest you read your own post again...

I've always liked Dennis (and it annoys me greatly when people criticise 'Ronspeak' (just because a man isn't good at public speaking and needs to do so in a certain way is not a reason for crucifiction) and the man's integrity, when they don't even know him and ignore comments from all those who do).
It's one of the reasons for my support of McLaren (conversely Todt and Montezemolo were why I never warmed to Ferrari) and I was a little saddened to see the amount that was rested on Ron's shoulders last year. I very much doubt that I could have withstood such an onslaught from within and without, so my hat is well and truly off to him.



#76 tifosi

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 20:11

Originally posted by Durant
He hasnt delivered a WC for almost a decade, isnt that considered a bad job?


So the only decent managers in F1 are Jean Todt and Flavio Briatorre???

#77 tifosi

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 20:15

Originally posted by Durant



Williams hasnt had the budget, backing or drivers Mclaren have had. Less expectations. Mclaren had it all and failed.


So Ron Dennis was able to put together a better budget, attract better backing, and sign better drivers?

#78 512 TR

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 20:18

Can't we use this smiley when it's official "Ron is out"?

Posted Image

Please! Pretty please with a cherry on the top! :lol:

#79 steelyman

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 20:21

Originally posted by Raelene


I suggest you read your own post again...


this person must be suggesting they personally knows todt and luca to not warm to the team because of these 2 people

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#80 se7en_24

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 20:29

Apparently Ron already has a new job lined up:

http://uk.youtube.co...h?v=fR0oQwrlZD8

(No disrespect to the legend that is Rodigan :D)

#81 lukywill

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 20:35

Originally posted by tifosi


So Ron Dennis was able to put together a better budget, attract better backing, and sign better drivers?


yes. and still failed to win.

#82 giacomo

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 21:27

I would take all Spanish reports about anything McLaren related with a grain of salt.

Besides, I bet my ass that Ron Dennis is far away from being fired. But probably there are backstage discussions going on to find a dignified way for him to leave the stage.

#83 Scudetto

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 22:57

While no particular fan of Dennis, I hope this news isn't true. He's done good things for F1 and made McLaren into a perennial force to rekoned in the sport, among a great many other things. Whatever my feelings about him, he deserves far more than a summary dismissal from the team and sport he helped build.

#84 AndreasF1

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 00:18

Ron Dennis has been around F1 longer than most of the posters on this forum have been alive. Love him or hate him but he is totaly ingrained in the very fabric that makes up F1. He is right up there with Chapman, Ferrari , Williams, Tyrell, Ligier, Walter Wolf etc.. these people made F1 and are icons. People that are looking forward to his departure have no clue to what that means for the sport. We would be loosing another historic figure in a world were money and commercial interests are more important than racing. Dennis hasn't sold his soul and he is a true racer. Something that can't be said for many others that came and went over the years.

#85 Norm

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 01:37

Originally posted by se7en_24
Apparently Ron already has a new job lined up:

http://uk.youtube.co...h?v=fR0oQwrlZD8

(No disrespect to the legend that is Rodigan :D)


Lord a mercy! :smoking:

#86 fastlegs

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 04:16

Like many other posters I'm not a big fan of Ron Dennis.

However, with that said, I'd like to see Ron leave F1 on a positive note.

I would hope for his sake that he stays on for this season and has great success with the team. However, I'd still like to see Kimi or Massa win the WDC.

#87 HP

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 04:43

Originally posted by Durant



Williams hasnt had the budget, backing or drivers Mclaren have had. Less expectations. Mclaren had it all and failed.

I've said since years, that I dislike how McLaren creates expectations and most often failed to deliver. IMO it's just cruel to create expectations and don't deliver on it for those supporting the team. That's the very reason that turns me away from McLaren. IMO they do PR like some politicians.

#88 skinnylizard

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 06:04

but they seem like the slickest of outfits and have changed the game ever since Mika won in 1997, getting bigger and bigger every year.

its quite amazing that they have gotten to where they are (i know Merc backs them but im sure even that took some doing)

so, they do come across as a touch insensitive and sanitized but they overall done a commendable job of getting to the top.

At the same they have SHIT driver management (i would rank Toyota 2, Williams 3) and have imploded more than once. Last year was just unacceptable by all standards.

#89 Perigee

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 07:53

Originally posted by skinnylizard
but they seem like the slickest of outfits and have changed the game ever since Mika won in 1997, getting bigger and bigger every year.

Bigger in terms of what? Since Mika winning a (fixed*) race in 1997, they got "bigger" in terms of results only in 1998 and 1999. Since then their factory has got bigger, their motorhome has got bigger, but their results have, er, shrunk.

Judging by Ron's inability to admit the wrongs committed by McLaren over Spygate, in the style of a politicion who has started believing his own flawewd rhetoric, it seems clear the only thing within Mclaren that has been "getting bigger and bigger every year" is Mr Dennis' ego.




* Not to get into the debate of whether it was right or wrong, but you will recall that the race that Mika won was the result of collusion between Ron Dennis and Frank Williams.

#90 volumenzero

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 08:03

Originally posted by giacomo
I would take all Spanish reports about anything McLaren related with a grain of salt.

Besides, I bet my ass that Ron Dennis is far away from being fired. But probably there are backstage discussions going on to find a dignified way for him to leave the stage.


The rumors are about Dennis being "promoted" to other roles ... not being fired ...

#91 LostProphet

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 08:55

Originally posted by Raelene


I suggest you read your own post again...


Yes, I've read it again.

Being annoyed at people using one man's personal foibles to hang him and his team DOES NOT EQUATE to me simply not warming to a team because of their outward face.
Whilst Todt may come across as arrogant, he is undoubtedly a brilliant man. I could just not get on-board with a team whose public face seemed to condescend the overall sport (the "What is best for Ferrari is best for F1" mentality)
However those that would bash Ron Dennis assume that because of the way he acts, he is some sort of halfwit, devoid of integrity and that the team he operates must be the spawn of satan, and whoever drives for him must be ridiculed.

Again, I fail to see the equality between my two statements.

#92 LostProphet

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 08:57

Originally posted by steelyman


this person must be suggesting they personally knows todt and luca to not warm to the team because of these 2 people


Ah yes, AtlasBB Rule #5:
Wherever possible, purposely misinterpret a post of somebody that does not support your team of choice.

#93 kar

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 09:12

Originally posted by LostProphet
Whilst Todt may come across as arrogant, he is undoubtedly a brilliant man. I could just not get on-board with a team whose public face seemed to condescend the overall sport (the "What is best for Ferrari is best for F1" mentality)


What, like launching an illegal appeal against the title deciding race in the full knowledge the protest was improper, and that even the actual merit of the appeal was known to be dubious?

Then launch a ridiculous (and vicious) media campaign about it...again in the full knowledge a) the protest was illegal and b) of dubious merit?

Because it would be good for the sport? No. Because it would be good for McLaren.

Oh and then there's the whole way they tried to trash Renault in the media only subsequently retracting their slander after being called on it behind closed doors by the FIA.

Yeah, McLaren are a right team mindful of the sport...just when it coincides with their own interests.

#94 Perigee

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 09:15

Originally posted by volumenzero


The rumors are about Dennis being "promoted" to other roles ... not being fired ...

Again - how can somebody be "promoted" in a company where they already hold the senior position?

#95 kar

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 09:18

Originally posted by Perigee

Again - how can somebody be "promoted" in a company where they already hold the senior position?


Jean Todt at Ferrari?

In theory he's been promoted.

#96 Perigee

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 09:31

Originally posted by kar


Jean Todt at Ferrari?

In theory he's been promoted.

But he didn't hold the most senior possible position at Ferrari. LdM did and does.

RD was CEO and Chairman at McLaren...how can he be promoted from there?

"Promoted" (in the UK anyway) means being put to a higher position, not just a change. Todt was able to be moved to a higher position...how can RD be moved to a higher position when he already occupies the highest position?

#97 lustigson

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 09:55

Originally posted by Perigee
But he didn't hold the most senior possible position at Ferrari. LdM did and does.

RD was CEO and Chairman at McLaren...how can he be promoted from there?

"Promoted" (in the UK anyway) means being put to a higher position, not just a change. Todt was able to be moved to a higher position...how can RD be moved to a higher position when he already occupies the highest position?

What about a position at Mercedes-Benz, or at Daimler AG?

#98 Perigee

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 10:08

Originally posted by lustigson

What about a position at Mercedes-Benz, or at Daimler AG?

Well, that would mean moving to another company, rather than being 'promoted', but I get your point.

Quite why Mercedes or Dailer would want to tarnish their reputation by employing Ron "I won't admit McLaren wrongs in Spygate" Dennis though, I have no idea. I would put money on them not doing doing so for that very reason.

#99 volumenzero

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 10:27

Originally posted by Perigee
But he didn't hold the most senior possible position at Ferrari. LdM did and does.

RD was CEO and Chairman at McLaren...how can he be promoted from there?

"Promoted" (in the UK anyway) means being put to a higher position, not just a change. Todt was able to be moved to a higher position...how can RD be moved to a higher position when he already occupies the highest position?


When I say "promote" I mean ... to start doing other tasks ... 'ala' Michael Schumacher ...

I used "promote" to be nice ...

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#100 Perigee

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 10:45

Originally posted by volumenzero


When I say "promote" I mean ... to start doing other tasks ... 'ala' Michael Schumacher ...

I used "promote" to be nice ...

Well, the problem is, if you use the word incorrectly, it is likely to lead to misunderstanding an confusion.

Right - I am off to spend my day taking crack cocaine, and shagging supermodels in my supercar*



* by this I mean, sit at my desk and do a day's work! ;)