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Ron Dennis fired?


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#101 volumenzero

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 10:56

You got me wrong pal ... I used to think that British had humor ...

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#102 Josta

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 11:39

Originally posted by Perigee


Right - I am off to spend my day taking crack cocaine, and shagging supermodels in my supercar*


What, at the same time? Don't you get complaints about the innevitable hot rocks burning her back?

#103 Chiara

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 11:41

Originally posted by Perigee
But he didn't hold the most senior possible position at Ferrari. LdM did and does.

RD was CEO and Chairman at McLaren...how can he be promoted from there?

"Promoted" (in the UK anyway) means being put to a higher position, not just a change. Todt was able to be moved to a higher position...how can RD be moved to a higher position when he already occupies the highest position?


I don't think there is a more senior position in existence at McLaren is there? : Usually in these sorts of things, someone gets taken out of a senior "active" role and placed in a senior "nominal" role such as a member of the board of directors. It's all hypothetical at this point anyway since we don't know for sure what is happening.

#104 undersquare

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 11:43

Originally posted by volumenzero
You got me wrong pal ... I used to think that British had humor ...


Every other post of yours seems to say something about "the British". F1 is an international sport, if you just want to do national stereotypes and prejudice maybe you'd be better following A1GP?

#105 lukywill

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 12:08

Originally posted by undersquare


Every other post of yours seems to say something about "the British". F1 is an international sport, if you just want to do national stereotypes and prejudice maybe you'd be better following A1GP?


do you realize from where the 'spanish press' comes from?

#106 Chiara

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 12:10

OK well this article somewhat pours cold water on Marca's bonfire party :p

http://en.f1-live.co...228091147.shtml

McLaren, Mercedes, reject Dennis reports
No changes in the McLaren Management structure
28/02/08 09:11

Spokespeople for both McLaren and engine partner Mercedes-Benz have denied reports that team boss Ron Dennis has been fired.

A report in Spanish national sports daily Marca said Martin Whitmarsh was set to take over the British veteran's nearly three-decade reign because Mercedes, with a 40 per cent team stake, was angered about Dennis' handling of the spying scandal.

"The reports are pure speculation," a Mercedes spokesman is quoted as saying by the German broadcaster RTL.

"The fact is, the well-known status-quo remains, and this means an unchanged management team," he added.

A McLaren spokesperson replied similarly, while F1 Chief Executive Bernie Ecclestone also suggested that the rumours of Dennis 'quitting' or being 'fired' are wide of the mark.

"He's not an employee," Ecclestone told the Mirror. "He's a shareholder and he had internal support from other shareholders."

Source: GMM
© CAPSIS International

#107 Melbourne Park

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 12:13

IMO Ron's used to being demoted. He has had to sell off pieces of his business, but by bit afterall, to fund its growth, and also to make him rich. He's talked before about not running the team forever. Interestingly, Enzo sold Ferrari for a very small amount, with some strong promises to continue with the racing team. But Enzo was always the boss, Ron for much of his McLaren career has never quite had that autonomy, because he's always had engine deals, and his increasing number of partners.

#108 undersquare

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 12:20

Originally posted by lukywill


do you realize from where the 'spanish press' comes from?


No

#109 lukywill

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 15:28

Originally posted by undersquare


No


so you are clueless. typical f1 fan. enjoy your square.

#110 tifosi

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 15:33

Originally posted by Chiara
Spokespeople for both McLaren and engine partner Mercedes-Benz have denied reports that team boss Ron Dennis has been fired.


"The reports are pure speculation," a Mercedes spokesman is quoted as saying by the German broadcaster RTL.


Uh-Oh, Rons in BIG trouble.

#111 tifosi

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 15:35

Originally posted by lukywill


do you realize from where the 'spanish press' comes from?


I'd guess Spain, unless we are simply talking about press whose main language is Spanish.

#112 archstanton

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 15:38

http://en.wikipedia....n-denial_denial

#113 FLB

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 15:42

Originally posted by tifosi


Uh-Oh, Rons in BIG trouble.

Never believe anything until it is officially denied.

This bit by Bernie is also quite interesting, if he's quoted correctly:

"He's not an employee," Ecclestone told the Mirror. "He's a shareholder and he had internal support from other shareholders."


#114 volumenzero

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 16:57

Originally posted by undersquare


Every other post of yours seems to say something about "the British". F1 is an international sport, if you just want to do national stereotypes and prejudice maybe you'd be better following A1GP?


I have my reasons pal ...
have fun ... and remember just three things

1) too much sun is bad for your skin, because it will turn into a nasty red color ...
2) Sandals and white shocks are not a good match
3) Don't eat paella at night

:rotfl:

#115 steelyman

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 16:58

Originally posted by LostProphet


Ah yes, AtlasBB Rule #5:
Wherever possible, purposely misinterpret a post of somebody that does not support your team of choice.


still contradicting yourself in post 5 and 91. unless i am still misunderstanding you but im not the only one.

what is good for ferrari is good for f1??? is that a quote? maybe you can replace ferrari with the word mclaren and think of the year 2007. then read your post again

#116 lukywill

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 17:09

Originally posted by lukywill


do you realize from where the 'spanish press' comes from?

tifosi wrote:

I'd guess Spain, unless we are simply talking about press whose main language is

____________


you guess wrong. it´s from english sources: 'the spanish press' is a love for english personnel.

it´s like saying british press is the trust press.

it´s plenty wrong.

actually spanish press is much better than english press these days.

but you only think that press is what makes you going.

#117 undersquare

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 17:20

Originally posted by lukywill


so you are clueless. typical f1 fan. enjoy your square.


More a case of not interested in your meaningless posts dressed up as something obscure and clever.

In this one I see you (a) insult (b) generalise and insult all F1 fans and © name-call.

Having failed to see a difference between "the British" and "the Spanish Press".

Better to stick with the nonsense/Ron/cheating/McLaren, it will be less revealing.

#118 lukywill

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 17:25

Originally posted by undersquare




Having failed to see a difference between "the British" and "the Spanish Press".




:smoking:

:lol:

#119 tifosi

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 17:32

Originally posted by lukywill
Originally posted by lukywill


do you realize from where the 'spanish press' comes from?

tifosi wrote:

I'd guess Spain, unless we are simply talking about press whose main language is

____________


you guess wrong. it´s from english sources: 'the spanish press' is a love for english personnel.


So if the Spanish Press are from England, does Spain not have any press corps of its own? What does one call their journalists, the Portugese Press?

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#120 lukywill

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 17:38

Originally posted by tifosi


So if the Spanish Press are from England, does Spain not have any press corps of its own? What does one call their journalists, the Portugese Press?


actually spanish press is very much better than english press.

portuguese press isn´t called here. and has not being called. wait for portimao circuit. and don´t expect algarve has a alonso driver on the karma.

you should learn something from this.

#121 undersquare

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 17:42

Originally posted by lukywill




:smoking:

:lol:


You would like us to think that's meaningful, I know. And you don't care what meaning. But it's two symbols instead of something meaningful. Like this :confused: :cool: : ): :drunk: see? Click click click.

Some more.... :p :lol: :wave: :yawn: :confused: Click click click.

Deep, innit? :rolleyes:

#122 lukywill

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 17:45

Originally posted by undersquare


You would like us to think that's meaningful, I know. And you don't care what meaning. But it's two symbols instead of something meaningful. Like this :confused: :cool: : ): :drunk: see? Click click click.

Some more.... :p :lol: :wave: :yawn: :confused: Click click click.

Deep, innit? :rolleyes:




deep, deep. if you cannot discuss anymore just withdraw.

remember that we will never give up.

#123 undersquare

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 17:52

Originally posted by lukywill




deep, deep. if you cannot discuss anymore just withdraw.

remember that we will never give up.


Give up what?

#124 lukywill

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 17:55

Originally posted by undersquare


Give up what?


the campaign against british press.

:D

#125 lukywill

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 18:09

"The visits were part of ongoing enquiries by the Italian authorities, who used the Surrey Police as intermediaries," he explained. "The policemen involved were efficient and courteous, and went about their business with minimal fuss.

"We welcomed and co-operated fully with their enquiries, and the police professed themselves entirely happy with the co-operation they received from us."

this is from autosport.com

they are very very cool about their chances.

seems like they are really really annoyed about 2007 and the dennis role.

#126 BMW_F1

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 18:26

planet-f1 has the news on its main page now


'Mercedes have told Dennis to step down'

http://planet-f1.com...3209375,00.html

#127 Scudetto

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 18:28

Originally posted by BMW_F1
planet-f1 has the news on its main page now


Which, again, refers back to the same sensationalistic Marca article as its sole source on that issue.

Originally posted by lukywill
this is from autosport.com

they are very very cool about their chances.

seems like they are really really annoyed about 2007 and the dennis role.


Who is the "they" and what "chances" are they "cool" about?

#128 lukywill

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 18:29

Originally posted by BMW_F1
planet-f1 has the news on its main page now


'Mercedes have told Dennis to step down'

http://planet-f1.com...3209375,00.html


:evil: it´s not a spanish press news. :p

#129 lukywill

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 18:38

Originally posted by Scudetto




Who is the "they" and what "chances" are they "cool" about?


you figure it out.

i really don´t know who is mclaren. maybe you know better.

(is hamilton the true ron son?, is haug so fat that he doesn´t understand that he talks fat?, is mclaren a true racing team? (like playing fair to it´s drivers - even to alonso that bring them the number one car?), have they a claer business regards spying mclaren?)

all this are small questions. not addressed so far by 'mclaren'.

as you see that's too many questions. and mclaren still goes with accepting the 100 mil dollar pay.

#130 FLB

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 18:41

Originally posted by BMW_F1
planet-f1 has the news on its main page now


'Mercedes have told Dennis to step down'

http://planet-f1.com...3209375,00.html

Which is denied by Whitmarsh:

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/65364


... Although, I'm not entirely convinced he would know if there was a power play against Dennis. If Mercedes have decided to act, they may want to push him out as well.

#131 undersquare

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 18:47

Originally posted by lukywill


the campaign against british press.

:D


Aha. So here on this Haymarket British press website you are a mole?

Excellent! Now I understand everything.

Good luck with your campaign, Nige :rotfl:

#132 F1Johnny

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 18:54

Originally posted by lukywill
(is hamilton the true ron son?, is haug so fat that he doesn´t understand that he talks fat?, is mclaren a true racing team? (like playing fair to it´s drivers - even to alonso that bring them the number one car?), have they a claer business regards spying mclaren?)

all this are small questions. not addressed so far by 'mclaren'.


Have you asked them these questions? How can they answer questions they are not asked or in this case would not understand?

#133 lukywill

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 19:04

Originally posted by undersquare


Aha. So here on this Haymarket British press website you are a mole?

Excellent! Now I understand everything.

Good luck with your campaign, Nige :rotfl:


don´t understand your post but want nevertheless say:

-i do read indeed this bb: it´s a very good marker inside english language. and that counts for a lot. it´s not that it is better than portuguese news.
-it is really a pity that all the news navigates within english language. you must live with it.
-my reading of spanish newspapers is a good thing. british press nor tv will not make me more human. quite the opposite: because the main internet business is written in english doesn´t mean i should regard english press as readable.
-i much prefer spanish press: elpais and elmundo are far better than portuguese publico. and ages better than british times.
-and i really preferred french autosport (autosport) for as much biased they were than the bad taste of autosport.com (ice and no comment status).

.basically we will like you with our own language.

#134 lukywill

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 19:10

Originally posted by F1Johnny



Have you asked them these questions?


yes.

i think mclaren mistake last year was that they were too much concerned about rookie hamilton and forgot the champion they sign in 2005, that bring them the number one.

a pity that they fall apart. but it just didn´t happen.

and alonso is happy now outside mclaren in renault.

move on.

things were not as denis and haug thought.

#135 giacomo

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 19:11

We will see how long Alonso stays happy at Renault. Just imagine that Piquet jr might develop into another Hamilton. :p

#136 BMW_F1

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 19:15

Originally posted by lukywill


yes.

i think mclaren mistake last year was that they were too much concerned about rookie hamilton and forgot the champion they sign in 2005, that bring them the number one.


this is a key point.. Lewis far exceeded the expectations of Mclaren by half way through the season and when they were faced with two equally fast drivers with equal chance at the WDC at that point, it is my opinion that Ron changed his priorities and initial plan and let his emotional ties to Lewis do the managing and not his logic.

#137 undersquare

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 19:38

Originally posted by BMW_F1


this is a key point.. Lewis far exceeded the expectations of Mclaren by half way through the season and when they were faced with two equally fast drivers with equal chance at the WDC at that point, it is my opinion that Ron changed his priorities and initial plan and let his emotional ties to Lewis do the managing and not his logic.


I think it went wrong straight away. Fernando didn't go on the team training week to get to know the team, and in the very first test Lewis was quicker. Fernando wanted choice of tactics but McLaren stuck to their policy of whoever qualifies ahead in Q2 gets the choice. In Melbourne Fernando had to use a second set of tyres to get ahead of Lewis in Q2, and resented that. That was the slippery slope, and down it they all went. For me they all made their contribution to what happened.

But I think Merc will be annoyed at the political mistakes more than the driver management. Not checking/sanitising the emails, not taking Fernando's company laptop away from him in Hungary, the idiot lies like Coughlan "hardly knew" Stepney and wasn't really involved in car design, it was ridiculous. Then the cool fuel PR fiasco and the Renault press release/climbdown.

And the tactical meltdown in Shanghai and Brazil.

It was a total shambles. But still, for me, if they replace Ron then the team will go downhill and Mercedes F1 with them. But they need to change his role somehow, still leading the team but with the race tactics and politics delegated.

#138 Raelene

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 19:48

Originally posted by LostProphet


Yes, I've read it again.

Being annoyed at people using one man's personal foibles to hang him and his team DOES NOT EQUATE to me simply not warming to a team because of their outward face.
Whilst Todt may come across as arrogant, he is undoubtedly a brilliant man. I could just not get on-board with a team whose public face seemed to condescend the overall sport (the "What is best for Ferrari is best for F1" mentality)
However those that would bash Ron Dennis assume that because of the way he acts, he is some sort of halfwit, devoid of integrity and that the team he operates must be the spawn of satan, and whoever drives for him must be ridiculed.

Again, I fail to see the equality between my two statements.


ROFLMAO - you've done it again.......

#139 HSJ

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 20:12

Originally posted by undersquare


I think it went wrong straight away.


Flavio said somewhere (can't remember where) that he started the talks for FA's return to Renault already in Melbourne. So unless Flav is just talking, it does seem like FA-McL relations went wrong very, very quickly.

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#140 undersquare

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 20:18

Originally posted by lukywill


don´t understand your post but want nevertheless say:

-i do read indeed this bb: it´s a very good marker inside english language. and that counts for a lot. it´s not that it is better than portuguese news.
-it is really a pity that all the news navigates within english language. you must live with it.
-my reading of spanish newspapers is a good thing. british press nor tv will not make me more human. quite the opposite: because the main internet business is written in english doesn´t mean i should regard english press as readable.
-i much prefer spanish press: elpais and elmundo are far better than portuguese publico. and ages better than british times.
-and i really preferred french autosport (autosport) for as much biased they were than the bad taste of autosport.com (ice and no comment status).

.basically we will like you with our own language.


If you're saying that an international perspective is best, then I agree.

#141 Fatgadget

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 20:32

Originally posted by giacomo
We will see how long Alonso stays happy at Renault. Just imagine that Piquet jr might develop into another Hamilton. :p


Wont happen.From the onset Flav will make sure of that.He did say Alonso is the teams numero uno driver who will have first dibs at preety much everything did he not?

#142 kar

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 21:11

Originally posted by lukywill


yes.

i think mclaren mistake last year was that they were too much concerned about rookie hamilton and forgot the champion they sign in 2005, that bring them the number one.

a pity that they fall apart. but it just didn´t happen.

and alonso is happy now outside mclaren in renault.

move on.

things were not as denis and haug thought.


I think that's the first Luky post I could actually read without :confused: :confused: :)

#143 as65p

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 23:40

On the frontpage Martin Whitmarsh is now publicly supporting Dennis:

"Ron is fully supported by all our shareholders, all our management, and all who work for our team and our company. He currently has three roles: Chairman, McLaren Group; Chief Executive Officer, McLaren Group; Team Principal, Vodafone McLaren Mercedes."

Remember the same mans public support for Montoya after Indy 2006? I guess we'll see Ron Dennis in NASCAR very soon... he's probably phoning Chip Ganassi as we speak... :drunk:

Seriously: a few months ago nobody at McLaren would have dared to speak about RD in such patronizing style - the sub-text of this next sentence is pretty clear to me:

"It therefore follows that it is for Ron to decide when and if he should step down, step away, step back, or whatever."

What it really means is "you've got two weeks to announce your retirement, otherwise we will do it".

Love him or hate him, it will be the end of an era.

#144 kar

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 23:52

Basically anything out of the minister for information's mouth is to be taken very a huge grain of salt.

Ron will be in Australia eh? Wonder what his role will be? Drinks boy? ... :-)

#145 Raelene

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 01:15

http://www.telegraph...9/smgars129.xml

In a private briefing with The Daily Telegraph, Dennis hit back at suggestions that he is on the point of being forced out. He pointed out that, as leader of an organisation he part owns, there is no mechanism for removing him. Furthermore, there is no will to do so among the shareholders. In effect it is his train set and he will do what he wants with it.

Dennis said he was constantly evaluating his position, and a decision about his future would be made forthwith. The only question was when. That could come before the season opener, at Monaco, Silverstone or at the end of the year, though it is likely to be sooner rather than later.

#146 StefanV

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 02:21

McLaren without Ron Dennis would be like Williams without Frank Williams. Wonder what success Ron would have had if he, like Enzo, Frank and Bruce among others, had used his last name as team name?

#147 Raelene

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 02:26

Ferrari didn't die with Enzo's death
McLaren didn't die with McLaren's death
McLaren won't die when Ron retires...

#148 big x

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 02:54

Ron Dennis will stand down as team principle at some point but remain chairman of the Mclaren group. For a man who is 61 I think it's a perfectly logically decision to wind down a hectic schedule and not to be constantly travelling.

Posted Image

adam

#149 StefanV

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 03:03

Originally posted by Raelene
Ferrari didn't die with Enzo's death
McLaren didn't die with McLaren's death
McLaren won't die when Ron retires...

No, they won't die. They will become Mercedes. But that was not my point. The "independence" root is pretty much connected to Ron Dennis in my mind. Other people might think differently. Someone might buy Williams next season and keep the name, but for me it would be a different team. "Ron Dennis fired". Taste it. Ron. Dennis. Fired. Just the idea that it is possible to fire him makes me realize that McLaren is no more independent than Toyota or Honda, but but the full consciousness will not kick in until Ron is gone :cry:

#150 Ricardo F1

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 03:28

The idea that it's possible to fire Ron Dennis is . . .well, false. He can't be fired.