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will you miss Ron?


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Poll: will you miss Ron? (288 member(s) have cast votes)

  1. Yes (174 votes [60.42%])

    Percentage of vote: 60.42%

  2. No (89 votes [30.90%])

    Percentage of vote: 30.90%

  3. I don't care (25 votes [8.68%])

    Percentage of vote: 8.68%

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#1 volumenzero

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Posted 26 February 2008 - 23:52

There are RUMORS that Ron "pampero" Dennis is leaving McLaren.

After many years behind of one of the most successful teams in F1 history will you miss him ?

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#2 Sébastien

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 00:16

Not at all, I look forward to a competent manager from Stuttgart taking over :up:

#3 JForce

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 00:23

I will, and allow me to tell you why.

I don't really like Ron. I feel that he's a hypocrite who is far from comfortable leading the life he leads. However I respect him as a team boss for McLaren, because his job is to care about McLaren. Much as Jean Todt's job was to care about Ferrari, Ron was always there, pressing for his cause, in a largely professional way. I don't like his style, but he obviously has great organisational skills, and has picked people like Martin Witmarsh who can take care of things.

And as much as I love Ferrari, F1 needs different sides, different angles, at all levels. McLaren bring a different viewpoint, much as having independants like Williams, factory teams like Honda, minnows like Force India, all bring a different viewpoint.

I also don't think Ron had true knowledge of McLaren's cheating. He'll push the rules as much as anyone, but blatant copying of Ferrari documents and then having meetings etc is not something I think he'd like to do, as much as the rest of the team might like to.

And finally, because of his attitude and hatred of Ferrari, it means winning is all the more sweeter. No doubt it is exactly the same for him: beating Ferrari is the icing on the cake of winning.

So all in all, I will miss Ron when he goes. A nemesis always makes life more interesting, both the highs and the lows. There must be balance in The Force.

#4 hobbes

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 00:57

I really dont like him, but perhaps i just dont like McLaren cause they are good :p Anyway i wouldnt say ill miss him but it will be sad if he is replaced

#5 Apocalypse

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 01:00

I agree 100%.

F1 needs these controversial battles. Senna vs. Prost, Damon vs. Schumi, Mika fans vs. Schumi fans, Hammy vs. Alonso, Ferrari vs. McLaren... and Ron is one of those characters that keeps things interesting.

Who could replace him? If someone like Norbert Haug gets the job, I think it'd be disastrous for McLaren.

It's very important that McLaren stays competitive, and I still think Ron is the right man to handle that.

#6 ViMaMo

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 03:36

Sure, I'll miss him. A fantastic team leader.

#7 Jodum5

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 03:52

I said no but that was simply to prove that I understand these long time F1 bosses must go sometime. However, I will miss having true team principles rather than corporate types leading f1 teams.

#8 Raelene

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 03:53

sad for him if it happens, but I don't think i'll really miss him

#9 i.am.cloned

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 04:09

I will. There are lots of things in him I don't like, but he's kind of icon in current F1.

Ferrari has refreshed and rebuilded its dream team may be it's time to do the same for MacLaren as well.

#10 MONTOYASPEED

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 05:08

Originally posted by vivian
Sure, I'll miss him. A fantastic team leader.


Sure, if you are a Ferrari fan.

#11 coyoteBR

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 06:33

I will certainly miss him. He's a part of Formula One history, responsible for making McLaren one of the most successful teams around. Just look at F1 History, numbers speak for themselves.
Dennis is one of those guys who Lives Formula One and his team. For better and worse.
Sad sign of times if the business part of the sport demands him to be replaced by a Mercedes bureaucrat.

#12 markf

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 06:36

I'm a ferrarifan, and i don't like hem, but fore sure i will miss him. He's a great personallity.

#13 volumenzero

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 12:14

Originally posted by Apocalypse
I agree 100%.

F1 needs these controversial battles. Senna vs. Prost, Damon vs. Schumi, Mika fans vs. Schumi fans, Hammy vs. Alonso, Ferrari vs. McLaren... and Ron is one of those characters that keeps things interesting.

Who could replace him? If someone like Norbert Haug gets the job, I think it'd be disastrous for McLaren.

It's very important that McLaren stays competitive, and I still think Ron is the right man to handle that.


I think that Flavio does a good job in spicing things up ...

#14 polymath

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 12:31

I would hate to see him go under a cloud of suspicion.

#15 Sharkye

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 12:39

I can join the choir, i don't think i like him, but i don't have to like teambosses, so that is irrelevant. But i think he has done a lot of good for Macca. A good successor will be hard to find. So i'll miss him if his successor will mess up.

#16 Perigee

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 12:43

Well - when Dennis leaves (which could be many years hence), as a Ferrari fan, I will certainly miss him.

His weirdness, coldness, lack of integrity and general "Dark Side" demeanour provide such a negative aura over McLaren, that I am loathed to see him go. Sure, we can have a laugh at Martin Wit-less or Norbert "It's not a paedo jacket - honest" Haug, but who could really cast McLaren in such a laughably negative light as our dear old Ron.

In the same way the Democrats must LOVE having Bush in the Whitehouse, as it is a better weapon against the Republicans than anything the Democrats themselves can come up with, for fans of non-McLaren teams, it has been a pleasure to have Ron at the helm of McLaren.

Undoubtedly, he is a man of impressive achievements and great successes. But it's not just about *what* you win, it's also *how* you win, and for me, it could never have been possible to support this man or his team.

Yes, he will be missed, but more as an object of derision rather than any other factor.

Still....I reckon he wants to win another WDC before he goes, so he could be around for another 9 years...

#17 Owen

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 13:07

He ain't gone yet though.

#18 MichaelPM

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 14:12

What is that saying about shaking your hand with his right while stealling your wallet with his left?

Thats pretty much what I think of Ron. Same goes for Todt.

#19 Perigee

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 16:41

Originally posted by MichaelPM
What is that saying about shaking your hand with his right while stealling your wallet with his left?

Thats pretty much what I think of Ron. Same goes for Todt.

...and with Bernie you count the fingers on your hand afterwards. :)

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#20 SlateGray

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 16:46

Originally posted by JForce
I will, and allow me to tell you why.

I don't really like Ron. I feel that he's a hypocrite who is far from comfortable leading the life he leads. However I respect him as a team boss for McLaren, because his job is to care about McLaren. Much as Jean Todt's job was to care about Ferrari, Ron was always there, pressing for his cause, in a largely professional way. I don't like his style, but he obviously has great organisational skills, and has picked people like Martin Witmarsh who can take care of things.

And as much as I love Ferrari, F1 needs different sides, different angles, at all levels. McLaren bring a different viewpoint, much as having independants like Williams, factory teams like Honda, minnows like Force India, all bring a different viewpoint.

I also don't think Ron had true knowledge of McLaren's cheating. He'll push the rules as much as anyone, but blatant copying of Ferrari documents and then having meetings etc is not something I think he'd like to do, as much as the rest of the team might like to.

And finally, because of his attitude and hatred of Ferrari, it means winning is all the more sweeter. No doubt it is exactly the same for him: beating Ferrari is the icing on the cake of winning.

So all in all, I will miss Ron when he goes. A nemesis always makes life more interesting, both the highs and the lows. There must be balance in The Force.


Agree with this, :up:

#21 Perigee

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 16:48

Originally posted by Owen
He ain't gone yet though.

Reminds me of...

Posted Image

:)

#22 Johny Bravo

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 16:54

Good old Ronzo's annual season-starting "We know a 'certain' team are cheating" is part of the game, just like David's "next year will be my year".

#23 Jerome

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 17:01

You can only miss someone if you know him. None of us here does, including me. So I can't miss him, won't miss him.

#24 MarkWRX

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 17:53

Originally posted by Johny Bravo
Good old Ronzo's annual season-starting "We know a 'certain' team are cheating" is part of the game, just like David's "next year will be my year".


Except neither person said what you have in quotes, which means that you are wrong, or just spouting bullshit. Or both.

#25 wrighty

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 18:05

Originally posted by coyoteBR
I will certainly miss him. He's a part of Formula One history, responsible for making McLaren one of the most successful teams around. Just look at F1 History, numbers speak for themselves.
Dennis is one of those guys who Lives Formula One and his team. For better and worse.
Sad sign of times if the business part of the sport demands him to be replaced by a Mercedes bureaucrat.


:up: :up: seconded, spot on assessment, afaik Ron was already boss at McLaren (co-boss i think, with Tyler Alexander?) when Todt was still a Peugeot co-driver.......it's easy to forget (especially after a year like this one just passed) that people like Ron, Sir Frank, even Flavio have spent just about their entire working lives in the sport and I'm quite happy for these 'Grandees among Garagistes' to continue for as long as they want. It wasn't just Bernie who made the sport what it is today (for good or bad).....

#26 miniman

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 18:30

Indeed he would be missed, not just by me but by nearly everyone associated with F1, it would be a huge loss to his team and to F1.

Heck, even Bernie will be missed when he goes.

#27 lukywill

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 19:12

i certainly would not miss him.

i still remember when he took mclaren from his team in formula 2 (project 4). it was a big low step from racing mclaren to the icy winning mclaren.

but bringing another fat mercedes gray executive isn´t a improvement.

#28 512 TR

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 19:17

Originally posted by lukywill
i certainly would not miss him.

i still remember when he took mclaren from his team in formula 2 (project 4). it was a big low step from racing mclaren to the icy winning mclaren.

but bringing another fat mercedes gray executive isn´t a improvement.


Sometimes you really make sense! :up:

#29 manmower

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 19:39

What is supposed to be the difference between the "no" and "don't care" options?

#30 Johny Bravo

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 20:06

Originally posted by MarkWRX


Except neither person said what you have in quotes, which means that you are wrong, or just spouting bullshit. Or both.


Actually the Ronzo have been screaming before all season openers in 2000-2003 that he "knew" a team would be cheating. In all seasons he felt his team would have a say in the WC.

But anyways, if You like Ronzo's integrity, go for it, I don't envy it from You. :)

#31 Mauseri

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Posted 27 February 2008 - 23:21

Dont care, I watch the sport for cars and drivers, not for team principals.

#32 HP

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 01:01

Originally posted by lukywill
i certainly would not miss him.

i still remember when he took mclaren from his team in formula 2 (project 4). it was a big low step from racing mclaren to the icy winning mclaren.

but bringing another fat mercedes gray executive isn´t a improvement.

Yup,

However, Ron Dennis best times were in the pre corporate era.

#33 metz

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 01:35

Originally posted by miniman
Indeed he would be missed, not just by me but by nearly everyone associated with F1, it would be a huge loss to his team and to F1.

Heck, even Bernie will be missed when he goes.


Now, Max, on the other hand.....

#34 HP

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 04:33

Originally posted by metz


Now, Max, on the other hand.....

I won't miss him either, but he has also achieved quite a few things during his tenure as head of the FiA. Safety comes to mind. That's not exciting when compared to racing, but if we look from the point of achievement only, Max Mosley left his mark upon F1 and beyond. And sometimes it seems the more controversial people are, the bigger their achievements.

#35 volumenzero

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 08:11

Originally posted by manmower
What is supposed to be the difference between the "no" and "don't care" options?


If you say no is because you have something against him ... and if you say I don't care is because you really never think about Ron Dennis related to F1.

For example ... I really like Flavio and Frank Williams as Team managers and I dislike Jean Todt ... but I never really care about Gerhard Berger as a Team manager ...

#36 pRy

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 08:22

I'm probably wrong but I've a feeling Ron will step down when Lewis wins the title. I can see him sticking around for a little while yet to see that.

#37 volumenzero

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 08:28

Originally posted by pRy
I'm probably wrong but I've a feeling Ron will step down when Lewis wins the title. I can see him sticking around for a little while yet to see that.


F1 is unpredictable ... even if you have the fastest car, everything is possible.

There is the possibility of Lewis not winning the WDC never ... more than many people think. I think he has the ability and is in the right place to be fighting for the WDC, but I'll never bet my house in Lewis winning a single WDC, or Massa, or Kimi another WDC.

That's why we all like sports, because they are unpredictable, and make us vibrate watching the competition.

#38 Perigee

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 10:19

Originally posted by volumenzero




There is the possibility of Lewis not winning the WDC never ...

Exactly...he will prob win in during the next 2 years.

(That is what you mean, right?;))

#39 undersquare

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 10:23

There are only a few characters who make F1 special. Ron is one of these, along with Frank, Patrick, Flav, Todt, Max and Bernie. Otherwise you just have Toyota, BMW, Torro Rosso, whoever...

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#40 rfus

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 10:28

Originally posted by undersquare
There are only a few characters who make F1 special. Ron is one of these, along with Frank, Patrick, Flav, Todt, Max and Bernie. Otherwise you just have Toyota, BMW, Torro Rosso, whoever...


Pretty spot on although I think Max could be struck from the list.

#41 undersquare

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 11:15

Originally posted by rfus


Pretty spot on although I think Max could be struck from the list.


There is only one Max, albeit fortunately there is only one Max :p

#42 Perigee

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 12:09

A popular leader is not necessarily a good leader.

Sure, Max has an unfortunate demeanour about him, which makes him inherently dislikeable, but there is not much that he has done, in respect of the real core issues of substance in Formula 1, that has not entirely logical and justified, imo.

I would suggest some of the non-core FIA stuff, e.g. the Racing against Racism* and (threatening to?) sue the Times & Martin Brundle campaign do not seem to be his wisest pieces of work, but I can think of few others who could have acted as strongly, and impartially, and genuinely in the best interests of the sport for so long.

Who would be better? Most candidates with the "experience" have various axes to grind; Dennis, Todt, Stoddart, Stewart. Mmm, maybe this needs a poll? :)


*laudable cause of cause, but rather OTT in respect of the fact racism has fortunately rarely been an issue in motorsport, and this just reminds people of a rather stupid group of individuals.

#43 Chiara

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 12:12

No - because he isn't going anywhere apparently :p

#44 FredF1

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Posted 28 February 2008 - 12:28

Originally posted by micra_k10
Dont care, I watch the sport for cars and drivers, not for team principals.




Pretty much same here - although I don't care much for the drivers either.


All I want is a bunch of cars putting on a decent race - who gets them to the track, runs the teams or sits behind the wheel is of little concern.

#45 MickyD

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 17:31

Originally posted by Jerome.Inen
You can only miss someone if you know him. None of us here does, including me. So I can't miss him, won't miss him.


As it happens, I do know him. And I would miss him, and so will most in the sport.

The fact that he risks reducing his teams chances of world championships by the simple act of letting his drivers race (i.e. no team orders, unlike the red team) by itself is of benefit to the sport as a whole. This is an example of him putting the good of the sport over even his own organisation.

Also, he has earnt the right to be occasionally arrogant , which he can be (but be fair, he is a very busy man!) - he has built up a huge, huge business giving a good living to hundreds of people and their families. He is a real success story, many people who have not achieved a fraction of what Ron has are far more arrogant and eccentric than he could ever be.

And what many don't know is that he will always take care of and look after his staff like a father if they have any problems, whether professional or personal. This is why so many staff have remained at McLaren for so many years - unusual in this business.

I simply do not understand this constant Dennis bashing - the man has built up a hugely successful multi-million pound business and was a pioneer in professionalising and improving so many aspects of F1 yet because of "Ronspeak", or whatever other stupid reason people slag him off.

If you want an arrogant little sh*t who does not give a damn about the wider good of F1 or it's fans then you have the perfect target in J. Todt, believe me!

#46 Chiara

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 17:40

Originally posted by MickyD


As it happens, I do know him. And I would miss him, and so will most in the sport.

The fact that he risks reducing his teams chances of world championships by the simple act of letting his drivers race (i.e. no team orders, unlike the red team) by itself is of benefit to the sport as a whole. This is an example of him putting the good of the sport over even his own organisation.

Also, he has earnt the right to be occasionally arrogant , which he can be (but be fair, he is a very busy man!) - he has built up a huge, huge business giving a good living to hundreds of people and their families. He is a real success story, many people who have not achieved a fraction of what Ron has are far more arrogant and eccentric than he could ever be.

And what many don't know is that he will always take care of and look after his staff like a father if they have any problems, whether professional or personal. This is why so many staff have remained at McLaren for so many years - unusual in this business.

I simply do not understand this constant Dennis bashing - the man has built up a hugely successful multi-million pound business and was a pioneer in professionalising and improving so many aspects of F1 yet because of "Ronspeak", or whatever other stupid reason people slag him off.

If you want an arrogant little sh*t who does note a damn about the wider good of F1 or it's fans then you have the perfect target in J. Todt, believe me!


I'm assuming your assessment of Jean Todt's qualities is also built on your close personal knowledge of him as a person as well. :p

Because strangely many of the virtues you point out in Ron, also happen to be very similar to the qualities and virtues pointed out by Jean Todt's employees at Ferrari. How curious.

#47 MickyD

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 15:49

Originally posted by Chiara


I'm assuming your assessment of Jean Todt's qualities is also built on your close personal knowledge of him as a person as well. :p

Because strangely many of the virtues you point out in Ron, also happen to be very similar to the qualities and virtues pointed out by Jean Todt's employees at Ferrari. How curious.


Well, my assessment of JT is based on what I have experienced, I have been unfortunate enough to have experienced him first hand on many occasions and it is not something that leaves one gushing with admiration of the man I have to say.

However, to be fair I don't know him as well as his employees of course and they may well worship the man.

But I think even they could not honestly claim he has the virtues of Ron I pointed out, especially the sporting values. Think of a team which has acted on so many occasions in a manner “highly prejudicial to the credibility of the sport” (none-too-subtle team orders such as Austria 2002 and “Rascassegate” at Monaco '06 spring to mind, the latter perfectly summing up the Ferrari management “style” when Jean Todt stubbornly continued to defend the indefensible action of his driver, i.e. parking up so as to screw Alonso's lap - despite everyone else seeing it for the cheating that it was).

And he walked into a huge organisation when he joined Ferrari, and yes, he did a great job in banging heads together and sorting the latin shambles that was Scuderia Ferrari at the time. But Ron Dennis has achieved far more in a business sense and contributed more to F1 in many ways, and in a far more noble manner than JT.

The fact that despite McLarens fine and championship exclusion (great way to win the Constructors title, eh Jean? You must be so proud!) LDM continues to drag this saga through the italian courts says it all about Ferrari's wishes for the greater good of F1.

#48 Group B

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 15:56

JForce is right; rooting for the 'good guys' is much more fun with a 'bad guy' to dislike. Anyway wRONg is such a major and familiar part of the wallpaper, he'd be missed by me for one.

#49 steelyman

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 16:01

Originally posted by MickyD


Well, my assessment of JT is based on what I have experienced, I have been unfortunate enough to have experienced him first hand on many occasions and it is not something that leaves one gushing with admiration of the man I have to say.

However, to be fair I don't know him as well as his employees of course and they may well worship the man.

But I think even they could not honestly claim he has the virtues of Ron I pointed out, especially the sporting values. Think of a team which has acted on so many occasions in a manner “highly prejudicial to the credibility of the sport” (none-too-subtle team orders such as Austria 2002 and “Rascassegate” at Monaco '06 spring to mind, the latter perfectly summing up the Ferrari management “style” when Jean Todt stubbornly continued to defend the indefensible action of his driver, i.e. parking up so as to screw Alonso's lap - despite everyone else seeing it for the cheating that it was).

And he walked into a huge organisation when he joined Ferrari, and yes, he did a great job in banging heads together and sorting the latin shambles that was Scuderia Ferrari at the time. But Ron Dennis has achieved far more in a business sense and contributed more to F1 in many ways, and in a far more noble manner than JT.

The fact that despite McLarens fine and championship exclusion (great way to win the Constructors title, eh Jean? You must be so proud!) LDM continues to drag this saga through the italian courts says it all about Ferrari's wishes for the greater good of F1.


maybe you should enlighten us on this board then of the circumstances in which Todt has let you down in your business dealings together. or did he just not want to shake your hand? give examples of the unfortunate events you have experienced with him that shows why he deserves no admiration frmo you and you actually may convince some of us that he is an arrogant little shit as you put it. im not saying i dont believe you, just fill us in because we dont know.

and again why cant you just stroke ron off without bashing someone else. nothing wrong with praising ron, he has done many great things and a very successful person but slagging others off doesnt elevate ron any higher.

#50 Group B

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 16:04

Originally posted by steelyman


maybe you should enlighten us on this board then of the circumstances in which Todt has let you down in your business dealings together. or did he just not want to shake your hand? give examples of the unfortunate events you have experienced with him that shows why he deserves no admiration frmo you and you actually may convince some of us that he is an arrogant little shit as you put it. im not saying i dont believe you, just fill us in because we dont know.

and again why cant you just stroke ron off without bashing someone else. nothing wrong with praising ron, he has done many great things and a very successful person but slagging others off doesnt elevate ron any higher.

Sadly, in the few posts I've seen, Micky is starting to give me the impression that he sees thing through Blighty tinted glasses. :