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Faster Touring Series


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#1 Taxi

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 15:49

I've been thinking... In a lap over a circuit like Spa or Barcelona wich touring car would go faster? DTM?, Nascar, WTC?, Autralian V8?

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#2 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 15:51

DTM, WTC, V8, NASCAR. In that order. DTM is effectively F3 speeds in laptime.

#3 Schubbard_28

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 15:55

I think that it would have to be between the DTM car and the Aussie V8. The Nascar is primarily designed for going in circles and WTCC spec cars tend to be closer to standard than any of the others. Would certainly be interesting to see though.

#4 AMUSE

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 16:00

What about 'Super GT'?

#5 roadie

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 16:24

I'd expect the V8 cars to be faster than WTCC. After all, the WTCC is Super 2000 rules, and Spa is a power circuit.

#6 Slowinfastout

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 16:29

DTM is clearly at the top of the list provided but I'm not sure about the order after that...

are WTC that quick?

I would be curious to have laptimes comparisons between fia GT and DTM too, never bothered to actually check for this... :confused: :cat:

#7 Ogami musashi

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 16:46

SuperGt GT500 class lap suzuka in 1:50 (i think the pole record is 1:49) in qualifying which is about a formula renault 3.5 time, which is quite impressive too.

So i'd say SuperGT would be the fastest. Like DTM, the cars are almost pure silhouettes.

#8 Makarias

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 17:53

What would the order be if you added single seaters, Le Mans style cars and whatever else you may come up with to the equation? I suppose it would vary a bit depending on which track you would choose for the comparison.

#9 mclarensmps

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 17:59

Originally posted by Ogami musashi
...the cars are almost pure silhouettes.


So are NASCAR's :lol:







:p

#10 Ogami musashi

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 21:09

Originally posted by Makarias
What would the order be if you added single seaters, Le Mans style cars and whatever else you may come up with to the equation? I suppose it would vary a bit depending on which track you would choose for the comparison.


Around suzuka (which would be roughly valid for all circuits) something like that:

F1,Champ car DP01,LMP1,GP2,Formula nippon,LMP2,SuperGt,DTM,A1,Formula renault 3.5, Formula 3,WTC,V8

kind of..

#11 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 21:18

Id put GP2 ahead of LMP1, possibly Renault 3.5s too.

#12 Mika Mika

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 21:28

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Id put GP2 ahead of LMP1, possibly Renault 3.5s too.


LMP1 are designed for driving at full racing speeds for 24 hours... Course they are slower, if you tried to enter a F1 or GP2 gar into LeMans it would never make the end of the race id imagine!

#13 Ogami musashi

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 21:46

Yes you're right GP2 would be before lmp1, but comparing spa times, RF3.5 are a bit slower than lmp1.
(1:56 for GP2,2:00 for lmp1:2:03 for FR 3.5).

This is where you start to appreciate to pace of F1! (1:45!)

#14 ezequiel

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Posted 29 February 2008 - 22:48

Is NASCAR a touring series? because I tend to make a distinction between touring cars (DTM, V8, WTCC, TC2000, BTCC, etc) and stock cars (NASCAR, German V8 Star, Stock Car V8, TRV6, etc.)
But to stay on topic, DTM is surely the fastest. Then you have V8; and from the 2 litre series, TC2000 is faster than WTCC or BTCC.

#15 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 04:41

Oi! If NASCAR is not a touring car than DTM and Brazil stock cars are also not touring cars. No instead we say they are ALL touring cars.  ;)

Of course Super 2000 are the only proper touring car with more or less same engine, suspension design, floorplan, drivetrain layout as actual road car, and as per traditional Group A touring type car.


Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
DTM, WTC, V8, NASCAR. In that order. DTM is effectively F3 speeds in laptime.


You think a 300 hp (?) Super 2000 is faster than a 650 hp V8 Supercar or a NASCAR..... :lol:

Yes both V8SC and NASCAR might go crap around corners, but driven by someone who knows who to drive them properly these simplistic cars can get their considerable power down (note moderate talent level straight out of F3 or 911 cup rookies are usually 3-4 seconds off the pace until they figure it out a couple of years later, obviously they are a very different proposition to a 911 or an F3) .

Since the Lexus rebodied Opel DTM car will run in the second class of Super GT, you would think the turbocharged and more powerful Super GT cars would be a bit quicker than the DTMs.

Obviously DTM and Super GT are both effectively 'Sports Sedans' or similar to U.S. Trans-am series.

V8 SC's are heavy tourers that aren't much quicker more than 1-2 seconds quick than low-end sportscars like F430 GT. But hey, at least profits go to a local race shop, and not to an artificial 50% margin in order to build bigger Ferrari museum in Italy...

NASCAR obviously heavier again.

Obviously Super 2000 are the only traditional tourers, but you can't expect car with such small engine to be anything other than very slow compared to standards of Porsche 997 Cup cars etc......

#16 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 04:52

Originally posted by Ogami musashi
Yes you're right GP2 would be before lmp1, but comparing spa times, RF3.5 are a bit slower than lmp1.
(1:56 for GP2,2:00 for lmp1:2:03 for FR 3.5).

This is where you start to appreciate to pace of F1! (1:45!)


So accurately :

FORMULA 1
CHAMPCAR
INDYCAR
GP2
LMP1

SUPER GT
FR 3.5
NIPPON
LMP2
A1
DTM
GT1
BRASIL STOCK CAR
SPORTS SEDAN
FORMULA 3
GT2
V8 SUPERCAR
GT3/911 CUP
NASCAR
FORMULA RENAULT
FORMULA FORD
PRODUCTION SPORTS CAR RACING
SUPER 2000 [BTCC, WTCC]
PRODUCTION SALOON RACING

Look where WTCC goes compared to Ross' most inaccurate positioning. ;)

#17 Rob G

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 05:02

Originally posted by ezequiel
Is NASCAR a touring series? because I tend to make a distinction between touring cars (DTM, V8, WTCC, TC2000, BTCC, etc) and stock cars (NASCAR, German V8 Star, Stock Car V8, TRV6, etc.)

Just to add to the confusion, NASCAR operates nine regional Touring Series (minor-league stock car racing series) across the United States, but most of the races are on short ovals.

I've always considered touring car racing as being held solely on road courses and street circuits. And if someone disagrees with that, then I'll claim that touring cars have to have doors that open and close. :D

#18 Ogami musashi

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 10:15

Are we talking about non oval? i highly doubt IRL dallaras are faster than GP2 cars on a circuit!

#19 the9th

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 10:33

I think the GP2 car is easily the 2nd fastest.
Excluding Michael's cab...

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#20 jb_128

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 18:28

Originally posted by V8 Fireworks


So accurately :

FORMULA 1
CHAMPCAR
INDYCAR
GP2
LMP1

SUPER GT
FR 3.5
NIPPON
LMP2
A1
DTM
GT1
BRASIL STOCK CAR
SPORTS SEDAN
FORMULA 3
GT2
V8 SUPERCAR
GT3/911 CUP
NASCAR
FORMULA RENAULT
FORMULA FORD
PRODUCTION SPORTS CAR RACING
SUPER 2000 [BTCC, WTCC]
PRODUCTION SALOON RACING

Look where WTCC goes compared to Ross' most inaccurate positioning. ;)


F3 is faster than DTM and F Renault should be higher up. And the Sports Sedan? Rest looks OK.

#21 the9th

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Posted 01 March 2008 - 19:22

The champcar might have an edge over the gp2, specially on a track like Montreal, with heavy braking zones and long straights. But i highly doubt that the irl car is faster than the gp2 car, on a road course of course. Anyway, whatever.

#22 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 02:13

' F3 is faster than DTM and F Renault should be higher up. And the Sports Sedan? Rest looks OK. '

FORMULA 1
CHAMPCAR
GP2
INDYCAR
LMP1
SUPER GT
FR 3.5
NIPPON
LMP2
A1
FORMULA 3
DTM
GT1
BRASIL STOCK CAR
SPORTS SEDAN
GT2
FORMULA RENAULT
V8 SUPERCAR
GT3/911 CUP
NASCAR
FORMULA FORD
PRODUCTION SPORTS CAR RACING
SUPER 2000 [BTCC, WTCC]
HISTORIC TOURING CARS [MUSTANG, CAMARO, ESCORT, FALCON etc.] PRODUCTION SALOON RACING

Sports Sedans are a club/national racing class with spaceframes fitted with rotary or big V8 engines and unlimited size wings :lol: ...

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#23 rookie

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 07:06

Originally posted by Taxi
I've been thinking... In a lap over a circuit like Spa or Barcelona wich touring car would go faster? DTM?, Nascar, WTC?, Autralian V8?


Around Spa, DTM would be about 10 seconds quicker i think than an Aus V8.

Spa 05 DTM Warm up (Qual was wet) Paffet 2.13
Spa 05 Porsche Carerra Cup Pole Werner 2.26

Aus V8's are usually 2 or 3 seconds quicker than a carrerra cup car

Aus GP 07 v8 pole, Todd Kelly 1.57
Aus GP 06 Carerra Cup pole, Alex Davison 1.59

#24 Leons

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Posted 02 March 2008 - 19:03

now starts the race two in the wtcc on eurosport;) the race one was a very good race in afternoon :stoned: