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Almost team-takeovers


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#1 HistoryFan

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Posted 06 March 2008 - 21:10

Like the Thread "Almost moves" I wanted to open a thread with almost team-takeovers. For example, there were rumors in 2003 that Penske wanted to take over the Jordan-team. I've also read, that Penske wanted to takeover the McLaren team, in, I think 1995 or something like that.

There are lots more, like Eddie Irvine and Routsam Tariko wanted to takeover the Minardi and Midland team in 2005.

Have you more interesting almost takeovers?

I need all the almost takeovers of the Williams team. BMW wanted to buy Williams in 2004, but Williams didn't want to sell his team and so BMW bought Sauber. Any almost-takeovers of Williams?

I hope that thread will be as interesting as the almost-moves thread!

Good evening
Michael

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#2 petefenelon

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Posted 06 March 2008 - 21:54

Hmmm. There were quite a lot of interesting ones in the early 90s.

The Il Barone Rampante/Tyrrell/Benetton kerfuffle for example, which seemed to involve IBR graduating to F1 by buying Tyrrell and possibly turning into some kind of Benetton junior team (I forget the precise sequence of events and deals, but it was about the time the Cosworth V12 was in the mix and might've been badged 'Jaguar' for the Benetton team).

Lots of strangeness around Brabham, March, Onyx, Landhurst Leasing, Middlebridge and Lysys. At various points it seemed that almost any permutation of those teams could end up merged and under the ownership of any of the mysterious backers. Oh and throw Alan Randall into the mix on the Brabham front too - motorsport's Great Pretender. I'm sure someone remembers all the ins and outs there...

#3 fines

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Posted 06 March 2008 - 22:05

Williams takeover? Of course, Walter Wolf Racing took over Frank Williams Racing Cars in 1976, but that was actually a different team. It was after that that Williams Grand Prix Engineering was initiated...

What about Teddy Yip taking over Ensign? I know, he eventually did, but he had already tried (at least) twice before, 1974 and 1977!

#4 ensign14

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Posted 06 March 2008 - 22:43

Theodore and Ensign always made sense as a combination, they weren't based a million miles apart.

Alan Randall...wasn't he going to enter about seven private Jags in Group C in 1988 as well?

Willi Kauhsen nearly ended up running Kojimas, but instead entered himself...which ended up with them becoming Merzarios and being almost as successful.

Then we have Eddie Irvine's almost serial attempts to get into F1, rumour was he was going to buy Jordan, then MF1, with Russian money.

#5 lustigson

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 08:01

Perhaps one of the most intriguing was the attempted Ferrari-take-over by Ford. Although that wasn't just the Grand Prix team, but the entire company.

And, more recently, Dan Gurney and Phil Hill (?) tried to take-over Arrows in late 2002.

#6 ghinzani

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 08:44

Ensign being taken over at the start of 1981 by Colin Bennet using Riccardo Londons money.

#7 HistoryFan

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 14:41

More:

Zakspeed wanted to take over Arrows in 1999, and Prodrive Benetton in 1998. Prodrive also spoke with many other teams.

#8 Derwent Motorsport

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 14:50

Arrows being taken over by an African prince - did that really happen, or was he in the imagination of Tom Walkinshaw?

#9 fines

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 14:54

Well, I do recall having seen pictures of the man, so he wasn't just an imagination, but whether he was an actual prince I cannot say. Also, wasn't he connected with Peter Zakowski, rather than Walkinshaw?

#10 lustigson

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 15:05

No, that was Prince Malik Ado Ibrahim, and he was very much interested in a take-over of Arrows. He came up with the T-minus brand. :rolleyes:

#11 ensign14

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 15:08

Prince Malik

The devil in me wonders whether Tom Walkinshaw got an email, stating "I have £800m in a bank account in Lagos and need a small Formula 1 sponsorship agreement to release it"...

#12 HistoryFan

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 15:11

Yes, it was the Nigerian Prince Malik Ado Ibrahim. But I search the almost takeovers, not the takeovers that really happened.

Walter Wolf wanted to comeback in F1 in the late 90s. He spoke with Jordan and Tyrrell, but Craig Pollock gave Tyrrell more money and so it would be BAR who bys Tyrrell, not Wolf. Wolf said: "If I would by Michael Schumacher, Adrian Newey, Patrick Head and Harvey Postlethwaite, I could be world champion."

Months ago (perhaps more than a year ago) I made a list with all possible Jordan-buyers since the late 90s. There were a lot of candidates, like a Arabian, Christian Horner with Arden and so on and so on. I'll try to find that list.

In "Motorsport aktuell" (I don't know which number of the magazine exactly, but it was in spring 2005), Paul Stoddart said, that there were 41 (!) candidates who wanted to buy Minardi. I only know Red Bull and Eddie Irvine with his Russian friend Routsam Tariko. Who else were candidates?

There are a lot of such almost takeovers. I hope to find a lot before the year 1995. Because before that year, I don't have a news archive. Perhaps there are still more candidates who wanted to buy Williams than Walter Wolf did in 1976, BMW wanted to in 2004 and Baugur in 2007/2008.

#13 fines

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 15:25

Originally posted by ensign14
Prince Malik

The devil in me wonders whether Tom Walkinshaw got an email, stating "I have £800m in a bank account in Lagos and need a small Formula 1 sponsorship agreement to release it"...

:lol:

"Dear Sir, I am writing to you in confidence... this man died and we tried to find the next of kin, but he did not have relatives... there are USD 30,000,000,000,000,000,000... (return carriage) 000,000 and no one will miss them... please contact us in confidence... Signed, Prince Ngufu daboullah Iri, former secretary of finance in Ndallah Barubi, Africa" :kiss: Ahh, memories!

As an aside, my brother works in banking, and told me of people who actually responded to these emails, and consequently lost thousands of $$$$$! Greed knows no limit... :stoned:

#14 race4aliving

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 18:26

Originally posted by ensign14
Prince Malik

The devil in me wonders whether Tom Walkinshaw got an email, stating "I have £800m in a bank account in Lagos and need a small Formula 1 sponsorship agreement to release it"...


:rotfl: Thank you, that is the funniest thing I've heard all week. :rotfl:

#15 petefenelon

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 18:53

Originally posted by lustigson
Perhaps one of the most intriguing was the attempted Ferrari-take-over by Ford. Although that wasn't just the Grand Prix team, but the entire company.

And, more recently, Dan Gurney and Phil Hill (?) tried to take-over Arrows in late 2002.


Something I think both Dan and Phil denied strenuously at the time...

#16 petefenelon

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Posted 07 March 2008 - 18:57

Originally posted by ensign14

Alan Randall...wasn't he going to enter about seven private Jags in Group C in 1988 as well?


It was later than that, '92 I think, and it was going to be a mix of XJR-12s for Le Mans, XJR-17s (or whatever the atmo derivative of the 16 was goig to be called) and Spices... he was also linked to Brabham, with a Galmer-designed chassis (remember Galmer was very briefly the consultancy house du jour after fleeting Indy success)... and I think to Q8 money.

#17 HistoryFan

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Posted 08 March 2008 - 13:59

Originally posted by petefenelon


Something I think both Dan and Phil denied strenuously at the time...


They wanted to open a All American Racing Team with sponsership from Red Bull. There was also a German investor from Bremen who wanted to buy the Arrows team.

#18 petefenelon

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Posted 08 March 2008 - 20:31

Originally posted by HistoryFan


They wanted to open a All American Racing Team with sponsership from Red Bull. There was also a German investor from Bremen who wanted to buy the Arrows team.


And there were also rumours of someone in Germany who wanted to run two private Jaguars. Blimey, he must have been desperate... May have been the same bloke?

#19 weisler

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 02:25

Originally posted by HistoryFan
Like the Thread "Almost moves" I wanted to open a thread with almost team-takeovers. For example, there were rumors in 2003 that Penske wanted to take over the Jordan-team. I've also read, that Penske wanted to takeover the McLaren team, in, I think 1995 or something like that.


Do you happen to have any more information regarding the rumored Penske take-overs? This is the first I've heard of Roger trying to get back into F1. Very fascinating!
:)

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#20 HistoryFan

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 10:30

@weisler:

In the Swiss motorsport magazine "Motorsport aktuell" there was an article in 2003 from Mathias Brunner and Joe Saward. In the article was written that this rumors were at the Brasilien Grand Prix 2003. Roger Penske wanted to buy the Jordan-team, with Gil de Ferran, who also was a possible driver. Penske, so Brunner and Saward, could make the American team, who was always spoken from in this time. Penske had connections with Toyota. You remembered: Jordan wanted to buy Toyota or Mercedes engines.


I read the story with McLaren on grandprix.com. Penske wanted to buy shares of McLaren. Connections between McLaren and Penske come from Marlboro, who was sponsor at both teams. I think Ron Dennis didn't want to sell his team.

Bernie Ecclestone also said, that Roger Penske wanted to comeback in Formula 1. This was around 2005 or 2006. But in the FIA entry-list for 2008 there was no Penske. I think that was only a dream of Ecclestone.

#21 HistoryFan

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 13:25

Prodrive wanted to buy the Simtek team in June 1995.

#22 ghinzani

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 14:36

BMW rumoured to be buying Brabham many times, earliest of which was 1981 before the car had barely ran.

#23 HistoryFan

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 14:59

Yes, BMW often was linked with a own Formula One team. 1991 BMW and Simtek built an F1 car, which landed in the hands of the Andrea Moda team.

#24 weisler

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 16:27

Originally posted by HistoryFan
@weisler:

In the Swiss motorsport magazine "Motorsport aktuell" there was an article in 2003 from Mathias Brunner and Joe Saward. In the article was written that this rumors were at the Brasilien Grand Prix 2003. Roger Penske wanted to buy the Jordan-team, with Gil de Ferran, who also was a possible driver. Penske, so Brunner and Saward, could make the American team, who was always spoken from in this time. Penske had connections with Toyota. You remembered: Jordan wanted to buy Toyota or Mercedes engines.


I read the story with McLaren on grandprix.com. Penske wanted to buy shares of McLaren. Connections between McLaren and Penske come from Marlboro, who was sponsor at both teams. I think Ron Dennis didn't want to sell his team.

Bernie Ecclestone also said, that Roger Penske wanted to comeback in Formula 1. This was around 2005 or 2006. But in the FIA entry-list for 2008 there was no Penske. I think that was only a dream of Ecclestone.


Thanks for the info HistoryFan. Although this is the first I've heard of these, the connections do seem logical. I always wondered if Penske would ever consider getting back into F1 it the situation was right.

#25 petefenelon

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 17:48

Originally posted by HistoryFan
Yes, BMW often was linked with a own Formula One team. 1991 BMW and Simtek built an F1 car, which landed in the hands of the Andrea Moda team.


I'm not sure if BMW had a stake in Simtek at any point or not- I know they were doing work for BMW on the touring car side, and Max Mosley was one of the original investors. The Andrea Moda was (I think) an unbuilt design study for BMW; I'm not 100% sure what relationship there was between it, the 1993 Spanish-backed Jean Mosnier 'Bravo' project and the 1994 Simtek itself, but the DNA is obvious in the '94 car.

Which all points back to the glorious F1 Entries That Never Made It thread.;)

#26 Thundersport

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 20:38

Alan Randalls messing about was what ultimately caused the FIA to can the WSPC after promising 7 cars and never turning up! He didn't have the money to run 1 let alone 7 unless he was going to rely on 21 paying drivers! :rotfl:

#27 stuartbrs

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Posted 09 March 2008 - 23:05

Some information on Penske and McLaren`s ties in the mid 90`s can be found here.

http://atlasf1.autos...pre/galpin.html

#28 fines

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Posted 10 March 2008 - 14:30

Not sure if this is the right thread, but I just came upon the info that in early 1949 Wes Saegesser, famous one-armed Midget racer from Texas, tried to round up the finance to buy the 1938 Lyons/Offenhauser from Charley van Acker, who was reported to be on the verge of retiring from racing.

#29 rbm

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Posted 10 March 2008 - 15:49

didn't BMC think about buying up Cooper?

#30 HistoryFan

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 21:15

Originally posted by HistoryFan
@weisler:

In the Swiss motorsport magazine "Motorsport aktuell" there was an article in 2003 from Mathias Brunner and Joe Saward. In the article was written that this rumors were at the Brasilien Grand Prix 2003. Roger Penske wanted to buy the Jordan-team, with Gil de Ferran, who also was a possible driver. Penske, so Brunner and Saward, could make the American team, who was always spoken from in this time. Penske had connections with Toyota. You remembered: Jordan wanted to buy Toyota or Mercedes engines.


I read the story with McLaren on grandprix.com. Penske wanted to buy shares of McLaren. Connections between McLaren and Penske come from Marlboro, who was sponsor at both teams. I think Ron Dennis didn't want to sell his team.

Bernie Ecclestone also said, that Roger Penske wanted to comeback in Formula 1. This was around 2005 or 2006. But in the FIA entry-list for 2008 there was no Penske. I think that was only a dream of Ecclestone.


I read that Penske wanted to take over the Minardi team in summer 1999.
And also at this time, there were rumors that Penske enter Formula One with Toyota.

#31 lustigson

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 09:43

Originally posted by HistoryFan
Prodrive wanted to buy the Simtek team in June 1995.

Wow, that's the first time I heard. Why didn't they? Wasn't Richards still Benetton's team principal at the time? And wouldn't that have stretched Benetton's power a bit too far, with Briatore already owning (part of?) Ligier?

#32 HistoryFan

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 13:14

No, David Richards was Benetton team principal in 1998.
Prodrive wanted to buy many teams, there were rumors almost every year. If I'll have time enough in the holidays, I would list all Prodrive-rumors with Formula One. There were some with Arrows I think, and with many other teams, of course Benetton and BAR.

#33 lustigson

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 13:26

Originally posted by HistoryFan
No, David Richards was Benetton team principal in 1998.

Oh, of course. I confused him with Tom Walkinshaw, who was Benetton's Technical Director during said period.

#34 HistoryFan

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Posted 13 April 2008 - 18:34

I need all possible buyers of Minardi before 1996. I'll make a list with all possible buyers since 1996 soon.

#35 HistoryFan

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Posted 14 April 2008 - 14:58

As I promised, the list of almost-takeovers of Minardi. If you know more, post them!

August 1997: BAT and Reynard wanted to take over the Minardi team. But wheter Gabriele Rumi nor Giancarlo Minardi wanted to sell their shares and so Adrian Reynard and British American Tobacco supported the F1 plans of Craig Pollock. The BAR team was born.

1999: As I already posted, Penske wanted to take over Minardi in 1999. No details.

End of the 90s: Tony Johnson wanted to buy Minardi. No details.

End of the 90s: Rupert Manwaring and Mark Muller with the Dutch software gigant ISL (or ICL?) speak with Minardi and Rumi to take over the Minardi team.

March 2000: Former GP driver Adrian Campos spoke with Minardi to take over the team. Campos wanted a own Formula One team since years ago. After the Bravo project failed, he founded a own team who ran in several Formula classes. He wanted to bring Spanish drivers in F1 and as Marc Gené got the Minardi-cockpit in 1999 there were the first negotiations with Minardi. In March 2000 there were more and more rumors that Campos wanted to buy the Minardi team. Behind the pland were Telefonica and Joan Villadelprat. Few months ago, Campos and his new shareholder Alejandro Agag wanted to buy the Super Aguri team.

May 2000: There were rumors that Audi wanted to come to Formula One. As the rumors said, Audi wanted to take over a team and there were negotiations with Benetton and Minardi. But rumors around Audi were not new. Audi was related to many teams as McLaren, Sauber and Red Bull.

August 2000: There was a mane named Riccardo Ferrari from South Africa who wanted the Minardi team.

End of 2000: Minardi confirms that Gabriele Rumi sold his 70 percent of the Minardi-team to Panamerika Sport Networks (PSN). But after a couple of weeks, Rumi was back at Minardi because PSN not really took over the team...

End of 2000: After the failure of the Minardi sell to PSN there were rumors, Minardi landed up again in the hands of Flavio Briatore .

End of 2000: Former GP driver Martin Brundle wanted his own Formula One team and spoke with Minardi, but it never came to the take-over.

Between 2001 and 2005: As Paul Stoddart said, between this years there were 49 interests for the Minardi team. Two of them were Vijay Mallya and Michiel Mol, who now owned the Force India F1 team. There was also a German offer to buy the Minardi team.

sommer 2005: Former Eddie Irvine was linked with a own Formula One team. There were negotiations with Alexander Shnaider (Midland/Jordan) and Minardi. But Paul Stoddart wanted 29 Mio $ only for speaking with Irvine and his money spender, Russian Routsam Tariko. In March 2008 there were rumors that Tariko is one of the candidates to take over the Red Bull shares of the Toro Rosso team, the former Minardi team.

March 2007: After the retire of Michael Schumacher there were rumors that he and his manager Willi Weber bought into the Toro Rosso team.

Avril 2007: The Mercedes DTM team HWA were rumored for interests to enter Formula One. And there were the possibilities to take over the Toro Rosso team. But Gerhard Berger, co-owner of Toro Rosso, denied the rumors.

Avril 2007: Nicolas Todt , son of former Ferrari principal Jean Todt, and his GP2-team ART wanted to enter Formula One and buy Toro Rosso. But there was no chance at this time. One year later there were the same rumors, this time together with Jean Todt. 100 Mio $...

March 2008: Tony Teixeira is one of the candidates to buy the Red Bull shares at Toro Rosso. Teixeira is the chef of the A1 GP series and wanted to buy Spyker or Super Aguri months ago.

December 2007/Avril 2008: The Spanish GP2-team BCN sent a offer to Red Bull boss Dietrich Mateschitz. But the wishes of both never come to a merger. BCN boss Enrique Scalabroni, who failed with several F1 projects such as Durango, Ikuzawa, Barone Rampante or Asiatech, try to take over Toro Rosso also at the moment.

Are there others?

#36 HistoryFan

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 18:58

Another almost takeover - very actually: Magma Group wanted to take over Super Aguri. But the money for this from Dubai didn't come and so it failed. Before that, there were many other interests of the Super Aguri team, like the Indian Spice Group, which also supported the Indian A1 GP team, a consortium from Malaysia and Russia, German Armin Johl, Campos GP2 co-owner Alejandro Agag, A1 GP boss Tony Teixeira and some others.

#37 fines

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Posted 16 April 2008 - 19:18

Does anyone else think this sounds more like "Business News" than "Motorsport News"? Times really have changed... :(

#38 HistoryFan

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Posted 25 May 2008 - 09:48

The Magma Group wanted to take over Super Aguri, but that failed and so Super Aguri had to close down after the Spanish GP 2008.

Shannon wanted to take over the Forti team in 1996. But also this failed and so Forti closed down in the midseason 1996. Where there no other candidates?

Flavio Briatore said short time ago, that - as he wanted to sell his shares at Ligier in 1996 - there were 6 or 7 candidates. Who were they?

#39 HistoryFan

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Posted 31 May 2008 - 13:11

Gabriele Rumi bought Osella at the end of the '80s. Was there another potential buyer for the struggling Osella team?

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#40 racer69

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 10:23

Wasn't Greg Norman involved in a takeover of Brabham in around 1989/90?

And also an Australian consortium was involved in a proposed-RAM takeover in early 1986

#41 fines

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 10:33

Originally posted by HistoryFan
Gabriele Rumi bought Osella at the end of the '80s. Was there another potential buyer for the struggling Osella team?

I don't think so. Rumi was the sponsor of the team, and Osella was race-weary, so I'd guess they closed the deal before anyone knew the team was up for sale.

#42 HistoryFan

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 11:40

Originally posted by racer69
Wasn't Greg Norman involved in a takeover of Brabham in around 1989/90?

And also an Australian consortium was involved in a proposed-RAM takeover in early 1986


You mean the golfer Greg Norman. He had some shares at Brabham, but don't know when and how much...
He was a fan of motorracing and is a close friend to Nigel Mansell. There were rumors (don't remember when) that they open a racing team together.

It's very difficult for me who had how many shares at Brabham und Lotus in the last years of life for the teams. perhaps someone could list it up here.

I don't know anything about the Australian consortium you mentioned.

#43 petefenelon

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Posted 01 June 2008 - 18:26

Originally posted by HistoryFan


You mean the golfer Greg Norman. He had some shares at Brabham, but don't know when and how much...
He was a fan of motorracing and is a close friend to Nigel Mansell. There were rumors (don't remember when) that they open a racing team together.

It's very difficult for me who had how many shares at Brabham und Lotus in the last years of life for the teams. perhaps someone could list it up here.

I don't know anything about the Australian consortium you mentioned.


I suspect some of the Brabham and Lotus figures are still sub judice. :smoking:

RAM were chasing Swan Lager sponsorship at thestart of the '86 season, I wonder if this had anything to do with an Australian takeover?

(And to tie these two themes together, John Macdonald and Mick Ralph later ran the Middlebridge F3000 team - with the mysterious Middlebridge group turning up as part of the ownership tangle around Brabham.) La ronde infernale.....

#44 racer69

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 06:01

Regarding an Australian-based takeover of RAM in 1986;

From "Australian Auto Action - Friday February 21 1986"

ANOTHER AUSSIE F1 TEAM!
Consortium to buy RAM

A second Australian Formula 1 Grand Prix racing project has come to light, and if all elements fall into place the car could appear as soon as the first Grand Prix of this year, on March 23, in Brazil.

A group of mainly Perth-based businessmen, headed by Sonny Rajah, are set to purchase a majority shareholding in the RAM Formula 1 team, and in doing so give Perth-raised Mike Thackwell his chance in Formula 1 Grand Prix racing.

Although Rajah, a wealthy Malaysian who once raced an Australian F2 spec March here for two seasons, appears to be doing the negotiating, we are at this stage unable to ascertain who the remaining members of the consortium are. Initial information tended to suggest that the group was entirely Perth-based, but this may not be the case

Unlike the the group, whose plans we revealed in January, who intend to build an all-Australian car - a project likely to take some time to put together - this most recent group of entrepreneurs seems set to act immediatly.

While we understand that their initial plan called for the formation of a whole new team, circumstances have contrived to present the opportunity to take over an established team - along with all its FOCA privileges and qualifications. The RAM team is currently in receivorship, having lost its major backer, Skoal Bandit, and owing something in excess of a million dollars. A well financed takeover could thus solve everybodies problems...

That the bid is a serious one is not in doubt. Our English contacts spoke with RAM co-director Mick Ralph on Monday and he confirmed the story. In fact, events this week at the Formula 1 test in Rio look like deciding the future of the projects one way or another.

RAM managing director John McDonald has taken a revised '85 spec RAM-Hart to Rio to test, with Mike Thackwell doing the driving. Brian Hart has apparently come up with a much improved engine over the northern winter and the team has this week to demonstrate that it could get a competitive, reliable car together for the year.

If the car goes reasonably well, and everyone 'gets on', negotiations will become more serious.

The car is still currently in its Skoal Bandit colours, but is reputed to be carrying "Western Australia" signwriting for the Rio tests.

We understand that the team, should everything fall into place, will be known as 'Racing for Australia', and the car, the "Spirit of Australia RAM-Hart"...

For Thackwell, this could be his big break. His last two seasons have been spent playing a dominant role in firstly Formula 2 and subsequently Formula 3000, but without any meaningful offers coming his way.

For this year, indeed, the New Zealand born but Perth-raised driver had sought a change of scene and has infact signed to take part in the Japanese F2 Championship for the front running Nova Engineering Team. This may prevent him from doing the whole F1 program should the Racing for Australia consortium be successful in its RAM buy-out bid.



On the (Golfing) Greg Norman buying a part of Brabham, wasn't Peter Windsor involved in it as well in this consortium to take it over?? It was more than just 'buying shares' anyway from memory

#45 renzobalbo

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 07:47

I have read that to the end of 80 years alfa romeo task to buy
the brabham if not quite it bought it in order then to sell it to the
Swisses
I understand that the news is not detailed but they are not never
successful to having most precise notice

#46 fines

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 08:09

Yes, I also recall Alfa Romeo buying Brabham, in the days when Bernie was trying to get his ProCar thing off the ground, and Brabham was building an Alfa 164 for it.

I didn't know that Sonny Rajah was involved with the RAM takeover, a shame it didn't come true. The car was not so bad, designed by Gustav Brunner iirc, and with proper financing it might indeed have kickstarted Thack's career! :(

#47 ghinzani

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 09:53

The Aussie takeover of RAM (called Black Swan racing IIRC) had a dreadful Rio test with engines overheating every which way, and the project died a death. Strange that Toleman could make the Harts work but Ram and to an extent Lola/FORCE/Haas had such issues in 85 & 86.

Whats this other all Australian F1 project thats mentioned - linked to any of the Australian constructors like Elfin was it?

One thats springs to my mind - Frank Williams was apparently going to buy all the Parnelli stock (for 60k) that had lain dormant for most of the 1976 up in Norfolk to run in F1 in 1977 at the time he split with Walter Wolf at the end of 76. In the end Frank got a 761 for Patrick Neve, who had a dissapointing year. Given the way Jones went in 78 Patrick must kick himself every day. He could have been a GP winner if he had hung on with Frank.

#48 petefenelon

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 13:08

Originally posted by ghinzani
The Aussie takeover of RAM (called Black Swan racing IIRC) had a dreadful Rio test with engines overheating every which way, and the project died a death. Strange that Toleman could make the Harts work but Ram and to an extent Lola/FORCE/Haas had such issues in 85 & 86.

Whats this other all Australian F1 project thats mentioned - linked to any of the Australian constructors like Elfin was it?

One thats springs to my mind - Frank Williams was apparently going to buy all the Parnelli stock (for 60k) that had lain dormant for most of the 1976 up in Norfolk to run in F1 in 1977 at the time he split with Walter Wolf at the end of 76. In the end Frank got a 761 for Patrick Neve, who had a dissapointing year. Given the way Jones went in 78 Patrick must kick himself every day. He could have been a GP winner if he had hung on with Frank.


There was the Elfin-Clisby project, scuppered by problems with the Clisby V6.

How good would the Parnelli have been? Even with Mario on board it was no better than "ok" - and if you consider it as the car the Lotus 76 should've been in '74, it would've been a bit secondhand in '77!

#49 fines

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 13:14

But it was "newer" than the March he ended up with...;)

Re Patrick Nève, I rated him as an F2 driver, but he wasn't an Alan Jones! GP winner? I don't think so.

#50 HistoryFan

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Posted 02 June 2008 - 19:26

Sonny Raja a Malaysian? I thought that he was a Indonesian...

Great info! Didn't know that Raja was involved in Formula One and at RAM!!!