Jump to content


Photo

Is F1 a dirty business?


  • Please log in to reply
34 replies to this topic

Poll: Is F1 a dirty business? (172 member(s) have cast votes)

  1. Absolutely not, its transparent and fair! (5 votes [2.91%])

    Percentage of vote: 2.91%

  2. On occasion it is, but mostly fair... (20 votes [11.63%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.63%

  3. On occassion it is, but it could be more transparent (31 votes [18.02%])

    Percentage of vote: 18.02%

  4. Yes, it is dirty. (97 votes [56.40%])

    Percentage of vote: 56.40%

  5. It's the dirtiest business (ever in sports) (19 votes [11.05%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.05%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 glorius&victorius

glorius&victorius
  • Member

  • 4,327 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 08 March 2008 - 16:24

Nothing scientific, just interested in peoples feelings towards F1 as a business in sport.

See it in comparison to the business and millions around football, cricket, tennis, rugby, sailing etc.

F1 business = everything from FIA, to FOM, to teams, to assignment of races to calendars etc.


Advertisement

#2 SlateGray

SlateGray
  • Member

  • 6,122 posts
  • Joined: August 00

Posted 08 March 2008 - 17:59

It depends on how you define sport; I was going to choose “It's the dirtiest business (ever in sports)” until professional boxing came to mind so I settled for “Yes, it is dirty.”

#3 patgaw

patgaw
  • Member

  • 504 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 08 March 2008 - 18:30

dirty, hamliton's crane at europe gp and kubica's penalty at fuji
and where mclaren has boxes in this season.

#4 AFCA

AFCA
  • Member

  • 6,661 posts
  • Joined: February 06

Posted 08 March 2008 - 18:34

Quite some dirty games going on in cycling now but F1 is a level higher.

There are way too many scandals, regulations, money and political fights (between many different parties having an interest) involved for it not to be dirty business.

Still you've got to love it :)

#5 Big Block 8

Big Block 8
  • Member

  • 2,423 posts
  • Joined: January 04

Posted 08 March 2008 - 18:43

Originally posted by SlateGray
It depends on how you define sport; I was going to choose “It's the dirtiest business (ever in sports)” until professional boxing came to mind so I settled for “Yes, it is dirty.”


Sure boxing is dirty, but there at least you always have equal equipment with your opponent.

So F1 must be the dirtiest. :p

#6 whatto999

whatto999
  • Member

  • 713 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 08 March 2008 - 18:44

Yes, it is dirty.

#7 Peter Perfect

Peter Perfect
  • Member

  • 4,877 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 08 March 2008 - 18:46

Don't know if it's the dirtiest, but it's certainly up there.

#8 undersquare

undersquare
  • Member

  • 18,929 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 08 March 2008 - 18:49

Not the dirtiest ever, but only because of boxing, wrestling, and racing.

I think Max and his cronies in the FIA have become really corrupt and despotic.

#9 aportinga

aportinga
  • Member

  • 7,795 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 08 March 2008 - 18:58

Dirtier then that 2 girls and a cup video for sure :up:

#10 Atreiu

Atreiu
  • Member

  • 9,956 posts
  • Joined: May 07

Posted 08 March 2008 - 19:02

Not dirtier than a certain sport called sex, but yes, it's dirty.

:)

#11 glorius&victorius

glorius&victorius
  • Member

  • 4,327 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 08 March 2008 - 19:22

Originally posted by SlateGray
It depends on how you define sport; I was going to choose “It's the dirtiest business (ever in sports)” until professional boxing came to mind so I settled for “Yes, it is dirty.”


I am not defining the sport... i am not defining anything. I am referring to the business around the sport. So not the on track duels between drivers and teams (or races) but the "business" surrounding it.

Yes, thinking of boxing promoter Don King, I would immediately think boxing has had corrupt business men.

Looking at football and transfer of players between teams and the transfer market etc, prize money involved etc I think its reasonably transparent.

Golf with prize money is also pretty transparent. The entry rules of players at the top level of golf is transparent too.

I still find it amazing that Dave Richards with the millions of backing he could put together still will not make it on the 2008 grid. So something is smelling bad...
The recent dealings surrounding Stepney... if he did something wrong, ban him. Not banning him raises questions.. But I dont want this thread to be on Stepney. ;)

Perhaps cricket and betting business around it make things a bit uneasy. Also cycling and doctors and doping... extremely negative image.

#12 glorius&victorius

glorius&victorius
  • Member

  • 4,327 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 08 March 2008 - 19:23

Originally posted by Atreiu
Not dirtier than a certain sport called sex, but yes, it's dirty.

:)


I am not comparing sports. I am comparing the business around sports. :D




#13 FlashMaster

FlashMaster
  • Member

  • 1,901 posts
  • Joined: May 06

Posted 08 March 2008 - 19:29

Yes F1 is dirty, but not as dirty as e.g cycling !! Look at Ulle, Lance, Valverde or Richard, everybody a proven loser. :down: Epo & Fuentes :down:

#14 VresiBerba

VresiBerba
  • Member

  • 8,951 posts
  • Joined: April 02

Posted 08 March 2008 - 19:39

Define dirty.

#15 Group B

Group B
  • Member

  • 13,971 posts
  • Joined: March 02

Posted 08 March 2008 - 19:40

Most sports are. Footballers dive, hack, pull shirts, obstruct, etc. Cricketers claim dropped catches and hardly any batsmen walk, athletics and cycling are full of drugs ...

Sad, but that's how it is.

#16 glorius&victorius

glorius&victorius
  • Member

  • 4,327 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 08 March 2008 - 19:58

Originally posted by VresiBerba
Define dirty.


Anything that raises questions (which are left unanswered), such as:

1) the level of transparency: distribution of prize and tv money is unclear; entry of new teams is a mystery; why Russia could get a GP and rich in tradition and history venues like Silverstone and Spa (are) could disappear(ing);
2) equality between the participants (i.e. teams and drivers): if Mclaren belongs at the end of the pitlane why arent they there;

I am not for or against Mclaren, or Ferrari, or anyone... these are just things that happen, and it raises questions about consistency of ruling and governing.

We have annually the tradition by Mr. Ecclestone of him taking hostage of the GP's on calendars and claiming that there are better and more exiting venues... now its becoming a normality. We call him the F1 supremo but in other cultures doing the same things he could be called a mafia boss.



#17 glorius&victorius

glorius&victorius
  • Member

  • 4,327 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 08 March 2008 - 20:05

Originally posted by Group B
Most sports are. Footballers dive, hack, pull shirts, obstruct, etc. Cricketers claim dropped catches and hardly any batsmen walk, athletics and cycling are full of drugs ...

Sad, but that's how it is.


again I am not looking at the players, or drivers, or the sportsmen and their conduct on the pitch, or on the track... but the business around the sport.

#18 VresiBerba

VresiBerba
  • Member

  • 8,951 posts
  • Joined: April 02

Posted 08 March 2008 - 20:31

Originally posted by glorius&victorius
1) the level of transparency: distribution of prize and tv money is unclear; entry of new teams is a mystery; why Russia could get a GP and Silverstone could disappear;

I'm sorry, but I don't find any of that dirty one bit. True, the orginasiaton of Foruma 1 as such, leaves a great deal to be desired, but, dirty, no, I can't agree to that.

2) equality between the participants (i.e. teams and drivers): if Mclaren belongs at the end of the pitlane why arent they there;

Why McLaren aren't at the right end of the cue, I can't answer, but then again, I can't answer why Ferrari get a 100 million dollars subsidy for their contribution of the sport either. Take it or leave it, it's either all, or it's nothing. I can't find anything dirty about those instances either, it's just how the sport has evolved.

We have annually the tradition by Mr. Ecclestone of him taking hostage of the GP's on calendars and claiming that there are better and more exiting venues... now its becoming a normality. We call him the F1 supremo but in other cultures doing the same things he could be called a mafia boss.

Well, Bernard is a businessman, and like businessmen do, they exploit for their own profit. It has been like that for thousands of years and it will be like that for another thousands of years. Nothing new under the sun. But dirty, no, it's not.

What's dirty, is Marion Jones, but she was just a competitor, her cheating doesn't make the sport dirty itself. And personally, I have completely given up on cycling. Following that sport is just like Russian roulette; if you win it's all dandy and happy days, if you lose, it all crashes down on you like a meteor.

#19 Bloggsworth

Bloggsworth
  • Member

  • 7,479 posts
  • Joined: April 07

Posted 08 March 2008 - 22:03

I voted for "Absolutely not, its transparent and fair!" just to confuse any Americans looking in........................ :kiss:

Advertisement

#20 JForce

JForce
  • Member

  • 13,841 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 08 March 2008 - 22:10

I voted for "On occassion it is, but it could be more transparent", on the basis that the majority of it isn't dirty at all.

Don't forget that we hear about and talk about the dirty stuff more than anything else for the very reason that it IS dirty.

What we don't talk about are the thousands of above-board, completely legal, ethically sound business dealings that happen every year, by every team.

The thousands of sponsorship agreements between Ferrari and their sponsors. The thousands of supplier agreements between McLaren and their partners. The thousands of employment agreements between BMW and their employees. The list goes on.

For every "dirty" act in F1, there are dozens of "clean" ones.

So I would say that on balance it's cleaner than we think.

But it certainly has its dirty side, and I'd agree that there's still more of it than in most sports, and a lot of those cases are dirtier than others as well.

It's part of what F1 is about, like it or not. It's been dirty since it began. But just the right amount of dirty ;)

#21 Victor

Victor
  • Member

  • 438 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 09 March 2008 - 17:08

Of course it's dirty and not transparent. Even the rules are secret...

#22 JForce

JForce
  • Member

  • 13,841 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 09 March 2008 - 17:13

Originally posted by Victor
Of course it's dirty and not transparent. Even the rules are secret...


No they're not.

#23 hobbes

hobbes
  • Member

  • 889 posts
  • Joined: December 07

Posted 09 March 2008 - 17:13

It is dirty but most of the dirt has to exist

#24 Haddock

Haddock
  • Member

  • 917 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 09 March 2008 - 18:23

Well, its certainly not transparently clean, but whether it is really any dirtier and underhand than any other top level sport, I rather doubt. Look at drugs in cycling and athletics, corruption in the olympics, dodgy transfer deals and bungs in football.... all professional sport has a nasty underside if you look closely enough. Such is life. And it's nothing new either, whatever anyone may tell you.

#25 Apogee

Apogee
  • New Member

  • 14 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 09 March 2008 - 22:26

It's not called the Piranha Club for nothing...

#26 former champ

former champ
  • Member

  • 2,537 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 10 March 2008 - 01:40

It's dirty but not a patch on boxing.

#27 rye&ginger

rye&ginger
  • Member

  • 231 posts
  • Joined: June 05

Posted 10 March 2008 - 04:20

Ive yet to find much in the way of clean business/sport.

Perhaps disabled sport, but even there Im sure we can find some corruption.

#28 CaptnMark

CaptnMark
  • Member

  • 1,015 posts
  • Joined: March 99

Posted 10 March 2008 - 06:27

Obviously, it's business first.

Unfortunately, so are the other sports these days.

#29 Rosemayer

Rosemayer
  • Member

  • 1,253 posts
  • Joined: April 04

Posted 10 March 2008 - 12:09

Actully it stopped being a sport and became a money grubbing game in 1968.Also read a book called the Piranha Club

#30 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 37,461 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 10 March 2008 - 12:14

Originally posted by glorius&victorius


again I am not looking at the players, or drivers, or the sportsmen and their conduct on the pitch, or on the track... but the business around the sport.

Well, you have the Olympics going to a country that'll drug you into a clinic for a forced abortion if you're pregnant for a second time, you have the FA cosying up to a man who engineered millions of pounds for his son's travel agency in order to grab North American votes for a World Cup bid, you have an athlete threatening to sue the British Olympic Authority because they had the temerity to ban him for steroid abuse, you have Bangladesh included as a test nation even though they're on a level with Rutland to placade the other Subcontinental teams, you have leagues in all forms of rugby that bar relegation so an unelected cartel can preserve their precious corporate hospitality...

F1 is like any business. You do a deal with the Devil's minions if you think someone else will otherwise do you over.

#31 glorius&victorius

glorius&victorius
  • Member

  • 4,327 posts
  • Joined: June 02

Posted 11 March 2008 - 08:18

Again this whole thing about Melbourne and Silverstone.

Do we hear fans complaining about Silverstone, do we hear teams complaining about Silverstone? I think everybody looks forward to the British GP in this historic place. It may look a bit run-down but thats part of the attraction. To only have GP's run in places with facilities with that look like the Mclaren Technology Centre is also very monotonous.

As for Melbourne, I and for sure many other fans, just enjoy waking up in the middle of the night to watch that first GP of the year. Nothing better than that.

I wish Mr. Ecclestone would just come forward and say: they don't pay enough, so I will drop them.

by the way isn't it interesting to see that 70 % thinks the business around the sport is dirty (ranging from dirty to dirtiest)

Again "dirty" is not a objective scientific measure.... just an indication of how people view things.

#32 Keir

Keir
  • Member

  • 5,226 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 11 March 2008 - 11:51

Can you define dirty ??

If you mean hardnosed and ruthless, then F1 is dirty.

Having said that, doesn't F1 need to be so ??

The "Sporting" aspect went out of F1 ages ago and again, rightly so.

Evolution is often the byproduct of survival of the fittest and one must be very fit to swim with the piranha of today's F1.

If you want gentleman racing and handshakes all around then do what I do and take in the various vintage events.

I went to Elkhart Lake and Lime Rock in the past few years and had the time of my life watching F1 cars of past eras racing.

..... but I will be watching when this years' F1 cars race once again in anger !!

#33 bomber

bomber
  • New Member

  • 7 posts
  • Joined: March 08

Posted 15 March 2008 - 18:36

far too much money involved for it to be clean, i would imagine every top team, and some mid runners,have spies in the camp

#34 qwazy

qwazy
  • Member

  • 288 posts
  • Joined: March 06

Posted 15 March 2008 - 19:57

As a business, I think it's handled well. I think Bernie and FOM would be under more scrutiny from authorities if he handled things in an underhanded manner. We may frown down upon his way of doing business, but I think the structure of the businesses, the flow of the money, and the sort, are all handled fairly.

The "dirty" part I can only think of is the Concorde Agreement. It's so hard to really know how anything within the sport truly works.

#35 512 TR

512 TR
  • Member

  • 2,205 posts
  • Joined: April 06

Posted 15 March 2008 - 20:13

It's dirty but Ferrari try to keep it as clean as possible and as clean as they let them keep it. The day when Bernie, Ron and Flavio get the hell out is the day I may change my mind.