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#51 Juan Kerr

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 22:30

Originally posted by SlateGray


Because Hamilton lacks personal integrity and cannot keep his word, Hamilton betrayed team and teammate in Hungary. Hamilton cost Mac the WDC and Alonso the WDC

If only the Hamilton had the personal integrity to live up to his word everything would have been very different. Hamilton proved not only that he cannot handle the pressure as he so clearly demonstrated by his massive choke, but he also clearly demonstrated that his word, when given, cannot be trusted.
Personally I hold that particular type of dishonesty in very low regard.

What are you talking about ? Hamilton was the one who led Alonso all year not vice versa. How can people be so dumb as to turn it around on Hamilton when Alonso was messing up so badly. Fernando let his ego get the better of him and it actually caused him to drive out of character, throwing it off the road and blocking people he was struggling to accept this brilliant rookie right from the start of the year.
We've all seen these funny moments in Alonso's career when his pride is hurt he goes a bit nutty, of course there are always people who choose not to recognise such incidents. We all complete understand and accept why that is.
Hamilton led the championship for round after round after round where was Alonso's help then ?

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#52 MONTOYASPEED

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 23:01

Originally posted by Juan Kerr
How can people be so dumb as to turn it around on Hamilton when Alonso was messing up so badly. Fernando let his ego get the better of him and it actually caused him to drive out of character, throwing it off the road and blocking people he was struggling to accept this brilliant rookie right from the start of the year.


So Hamilton tied with a driver that was messing up so badly and that let his ego get the better of him and who drove out of character, throwing it off the road and blocking people. That doesn't make Hamilton look so brilliant, does it?

#53 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 23:13

alonso didn't receive moral support as high as lewis? buhuhu.....he received a bigger paycheck, but that didn't seem to matter, did it?
alonso fans (flavio included) can't accept that their idol got spanked pace-wise by a terrific rookie
message to all of them (flavio included again) : get over it and prepare for 2008 instead of moaning. this kind of topics are getting annoying

#54 as65p

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 23:19

Originally posted by le chat noir


You can take that view, many do, but do you then choose to sit still and throw it away?
Or do you knuckle down, show him what for and come out clearly the better man?


I hear you, and I admit that I would have loved to see that happening.

OTOH, F1 is pretty sophisticated business, and I don't think such simple black/white measurements can be applied (as opposed to boxing, for example). Too much depends on the equipment and general environment a driver has to live with.

One could in fact also argue the opposite case: had Alonso really chosen to "sit still", he would have walked the WDC. I dare say that a character like Prost would have finished 2nd in Canada, 2nd in Barcelona and 4th in Fuji, simply by controlling his ambitions and maximizing what's possible on the day (just compare 1989). But I definitely would NOT have loved to see it happening for Alonso THAT way.

#55 SlateGray

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 23:31

Originally posted by Juan Kerr
What are you talking about ? Hamilton was the one who led Alonso all year not vice versa. How can people be so dumb as to turn it around on Hamilton when Alonso was messing up so badly. Fernando let his ego get the better of him and it actually caused him to drive out of character, throwing it off the road and blocking people he was struggling to accept this brilliant rookie right from the start of the year.
We've all seen these funny moments in Alonso's career when his pride is hurt he goes a bit nutty, of course there are always people who choose not to recognise such incidents. We all complete understand and accept why that is.
Hamilton led the championship for round after round after round where was Alonso's help then ?


Some Hamilton fans are so poorly informed or willfully ignorant that they are unaware of the root cause of the entire Hungary Q mess. :rolleyes:

Do the Hamilton fans still have last year’s victory Champaign? Might want to hang onto that cuz at the rate ham chokes it will be worth something by the time he manages to win the WDC if he ever wins the WDC that is, other wise you can all drink it when he retires in celebration of what might have been if the ham was a man of his word.

Edit : correct spelling

#56 KeyserSoze27

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Posted 11 March 2008 - 23:33

Hamilton's fans are so funny in this tread :rotfl:

#57 SlateGray

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 00:13

Originally posted by president evil
Imagine its March 1996 and its Michael Schumacher's first year at Ferrari after winning the two world titles at Benneton. Then imagine that Ferrari blatantly favoured Eddie Irvine in his first year at Ferrari despite his team mate being a two time world, and current, champion. Imagine how Michael would have felt if Irvine received all the preferrential treatment that was actually bestowed upon Hamilton. Now imagine it wasn't Michael but Alonso. Now do you see how Alonso felt because I do.

Yah but did Eddie Irvine's daddy Edmund Sr hang out with Jr 247365 ;)

#58 ZZMS

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 00:37

Originally posted by MikeTekRacing
alonso didn't receive moral support as high as lewis? buhuhu.....he received a bigger paycheck, but that didn't seem to matter, did it?
alonso fans (flavio included) can't accept that their idol got spanked pace-wise by a terrific rookie
message to all of them (flavio included again) : get over it and prepare for 2008 instead of moaning. this kind of topics are getting annoying


:up: :up: :up:

#59 se7en_24

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 00:51

"We want to win with QPR."
:up:

Flavio is a legend, at the game tonight as usual (with Bernie), surprised to see them both there so close to the Australian GP.

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#60 LostProphet

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 11:52

Originally posted by KeyserSoze27
Hamilton's haters are so deluded in this thread :rotfl:


Fixed it for you ;)

#61 brakedistance

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 12:01

Briatore is also quoted as saying that LH lost out on learning and gaining valuable experience from FA by essentially forcing him out of the team:

http://www.feedmef1....rticle&sid=9533

Although this may well be true, it doesn't appear that either Senna or Schumacher ever needed to be paired with a fast and experienced driver to get to be the best.

#62 as65p

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 12:20

Originally posted by brakedistance
Briatore is also quoted as saying that LH lost out on learning and gaining valuable experience from FA by essentially forcing him out of the team:

http://www.feedmef1....rticle&sid=9533

Although this may well be true, it doesn't appear that either Senna or Schumacher ever needed to be paired with a fast and experienced driver to get to be the best.


In Schumachers case it would indeed appaer that there wasn't much to be learned from the guys he was paired with, but I have no doubt that Senna did learn form Prost and vice versa (even if Alain can't always bring himself to admit it).

Of course in the first place a driver has to have the mental strenght and admit to himself that there might be something to be learned from the other guy, while not allowing this realization to affect his competitive edge.

That's the hard part about it, IMO.

#63 Josta

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 12:37

Originally posted by as65p


In Schumachers case it would indeed appaer that there wasn't much to be learned from the guys he was paired with, but I have no doubt that Senna did learn form Prost and vice versa (even if Alain can't always bring himself to admit it).

Of course in the first place a driver has to have the mental strenght and admit to himself that there might be something to be learned from the other guy, while not allowing this realization to affect his competitive edge.

That's the hard part about it, IMO.


Schumacher had a 3 time WDC to learn from as a teammate when he started in F1.

#64 as65p

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 13:11

Originally posted by Josta


Schumacher had a 3 time WDC to learn from as a teammate when he started in F1.


For 4 or 5 races... hardly relevant I'd say.

#65 Gareth

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 13:15

Flav logic is the best. Alonso had no WDC to learn from and he turned out alright!

Having said that, I think this is very true:

Originally posted by as65p
Of course in the first place a driver has to have the mental strenght and admit to himself that there might be something to be learned from the other guy, while not allowing this realization to affect his competitive edge.



#66 le chat noir

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 14:00

Originally posted by Gareth
Flav logic is the best. Alonso had no WDC to learn from and he turned out alright!


Are you sure? ;)

#67 Durant

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 14:15

Originally posted by StefanV
It seems clear that Flavio is doing what is necessary to make Alonso become an harmonic and agile racing driver again. Renault needs that. Briatore is giving Alonso 100% support and at the same time he is working on changing, or repairing, Fernandos public image. He is doing exactly what a good team boss should do.


Or maybe hes just voicing his own personal opinion? It just might be possible that he sees things differently than the majority of hamilton fan boys you know. What he said is 100% true.

#68 Durant

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 14:16

Originally posted by SlateGray


Because Hamilton lacks personal integrity and cannot keep his word, Hamilton betrayed team and teammate in Hungary. Hamilton cost Mac the WDC and Alonso the WDC

If only the Hamilton had the personal integrity to live up to his word everything would have been very different. Hamilton proved not only that he cannot handle the pressure as he so clearly demonstrated by his massive choke, but he also clearly demonstrated that his word, when given, cannot be trusted.
Personally I hold that particular type of dishonesty in very low regard.


Good post. Thats the exact truth.

#69 Frank Booth

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 14:46

Originally posted by SlateGray


Because Hamilton lacks personal integrity and cannot keep his word, Hamilton betrayed team and teammate in Hungary. Hamilton cost Mac the WDC and Alonso the WDC

If only the Hamilton had the personal integrity to live up to his word everything would have been very different. Hamilton proved not only that he cannot handle the pressure as he so clearly demonstrated by his massive choke, but he also clearly demonstrated that his word, when given, cannot be trusted.
Personally I hold that particular type of dishonesty in very low regard.


This is a valid point, I had only been focusing on how he cracked under the pressure of the last two races and totally forgot about the Hungary incident. I would like to add the Monaco incident as a tribute to his lack of integrity. Furthermore if you are going to step on people on the way up you had damn well better be able to produce when its crunch time which as we all saw didn't happen.

#70 le chat noir

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 18:12

Originally posted by Durant


Good post. Thats the exact truth.


if you think it ok for your favourite driver to drop points because a rival lacks personal integrity go fot it.

#71 SlateGray

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 19:12

Originally posted by le chat noir


if you think it ok for your favourite driver to drop points because a rival lacks personal integrity go fot it.


If you think it is ok for the Golden Child to be a lying ******* that lacks personal integrity go for it. I could not support this type of person

#72 le chat noir

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 19:28

Originally posted by SlateGray


If you think it is ok for the Golden Child to be a lying ******* that lacks personal integrity go for it. I could not support this type of person


who said i did? who calls him golden?

and when exactly does fa show personal integrity himself?

#73 Mpower

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 19:35

Im baffled that theres still Fernando Alonso apologists out there.

#74 undersquare

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 19:45

Originally posted by Frank Booth


This is a valid point, I had only been focusing on how he cracked under the pressure of the last two races and totally forgot about the Hungary incident. I would like to add the Monaco incident as a tribute to his lack of integrity. Furthermore if you are going to step on people on the way up you had damn well better be able to produce when its crunch time which as we all saw didn't happen.


Hamilton did not break his word in Hungary, he was disobedient. In Monaco he complained that he was not allowed to execute his fuel strategy, because he was brought in early to protect him from a safety car. In Fuji he made a mistake and went off, in Brazil he made a small error that cost about 4 seconds.

The real dishonesty is from the hateboys, who certainly have no business talking about anyone else's integrity.

#75 Scudetto

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 19:47

Originally posted by SlateGray
If you think it is ok for the Golden Child to be a lying ******* that lacks personal integrity go for it. I could not support this type of person


Hmmm...a lying ******* versus a blackmailing vigilante. I'll have to toss a coin on that one. :lol:

#76 lukywill

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 19:48

Originally posted by Mpower
Im baffled that theres still Fernando Alonso apologists out there.


baffled. it is a blast word. not dinosaur but rather baff.

are you not a alonso fan? i don´t think so. but you rather think that alonso´s fans would joint you on nakajima´s fans site.

:cool:

#77 SlateGray

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 20:18

Originally posted by undersquare

Hamilton did not break his word in Hungary, he was disobedient.


Nice try :lol:

When you agree to something, you give your word, when you don't live up to that agreement you brake your word. aka, being a lying *******. With the added flavor of being a chocker that cannot even gain from the unsporting dishonesty, = double loser, aka Lewis Hamilton.

Give the Hamilton apologists long enough and they will convince themselves that the Golden Child actually won the 07 WDC in place of the reality that was the most complete and total collapse in F1 history.

#78 SlateGray

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 20:21

Originally posted by Mpower
Im baffled that theres still Fernando Alonso apologists out there.


It is surprising when you realize the need for such apologists is not evident!

#79 brakedistance

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 23:10

Originally posted by SlateGray


Nice try :lol:

When you agree to something, you give your word, when you don't live up to that agreement you brake your word. aka, being a lying *******. With the added flavor of being a chocker that cannot even gain from the unsporting dishonesty, = double loser, aka Lewis Hamilton.

Give the Hamilton apologists long enough and they will convince themselves that the Golden Child actually won the 07 WDC in place of the reality that was the most complete and total collapse in F1 history.


Name a recent world champion that would not have behaved in this way. I reckon the last one was Rosberg, or maybe Prost if you feel generous. (think of the era - Andretti, Gilles Villeneuve etc.).

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#80 Most Fastest

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 23:24

"I think it was great for formula one. It was good news because without the fighting between Fernando and Hamilton it was very boring last year."



Kimi is still laughing about it.............................. The fight between Lewis and Fernando was the greatest example of managerial incompetence since the Senna/Prost sage. It is amazing that the manager involved in manageing both driver fuckups is the same bloke. No team, no company, no agency, should ever have 2 opposing parties. A team is one. Always. That is how you win. Last year McLaren, spy embarassments aside, showed what a team should NEVER do to win. yes, we all have principles, but idiocy should not be an excuse to lose.

#81 undersquare

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 23:32

Originally posted by Most Fastest


Kimi is still laughing about it.............................. The fight between Lewis and Fernando was the greatest example of managerial incompetence since the Senna/Prost sage. It is amazing that the manager involved in manageing both driver fuckups is the same bloke. No team, no company, no agency, should ever have 2 opposing parties. A team is one. Always. That is how you win. Last year McLaren, spy embarassments aside, showed what a team should NEVER do to win. yes, we all have principles, but idiocy should not be an excuse to lose.


See what Aldo and Stefano are saying about Ferrari driver equality...

"Q: It's difficult to ensure both drivers with the same treatment, as you have done and intend on continue doing with Raikkonen and Massa ?
Costa: ''It's not particularly difficult, eventhough some delicate situations may arise. I continue to think that it's better to have two motivated drivers that both bring home points for the constructors championship and are on par in the fight for the drivers' title. Other solutions than that seem to be of little us to me.''

http://forums.autosp...241#post3038241

#82 Most Fastest

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 23:38

not sure what your point is?????? are you comparing 2 drivers with experience to a pair where one was a 2 time WDC and the other a rookie??? Lewis might turn out to be the most talented driver since Senna, but without Alonso's telemetry, he would have never challenged for the title, as it was painfully obvious at the end of the season. McLaren should have used the season to win the WDC title with Alonso, who brought them that extra edge in developing and setting up the car, have Lewis get invaluable experience and learn from the master, kiss the FIA's ass for being able to win the WDC despite the biggest cheat in F1's history, and start 2008 with both drivers on equal terms. Your point makes no sense and in fact supports the losing campaign of Team Mclaren in 2007. Like Ron, looks like you are unable to learn from the mistakes of the past.......

Also, you point about Kimi and Massa equality doesn't explain why Ron Dennis didn't take Lewis ass after his absurd behavior in qual in Hungary and nail it to a wall. Allowing a rookie to betray a team agreement due to immature childish behavior has cost mclaren the World Championship. That is not strategy, that's idiocy. Had Massa betrayed team agreements so blatantly, he would be driving an Force India this season.............had Carlos Reuteman done that to Alan Jones, he would have been castrated by patrick Head. Hold on, he was castrated by Patrick Head......

#83 StefanV

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 23:43

Had Lewis or Fernando won the championship it could have been argued that Ferrari was stupid for not putting all eggs in Kimi's basket early in the season. There is always a risk. Personally I think Ferrari did right and I think McLaren did right as well. The difference was that the Ferrari drivers worked together when it was needed while the McLaren drivers started to behave like spoilt kids.

But I think Flavio is right as well. Alonso want special treatment and he will get it. Piquet Jr is aware of that. Maybe it is not fair, but at least Flavios drivers knows their place. Things changes though. What will Flavio do if Jr is consistently faster than Alonso?

#84 undersquare

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 23:49

Originally posted by Most Fastest
not sure what your point is?????? are you comparing 2 drivers with experience to a pair where one was a 2 time WDC and the other a rookie??? Lewis might turn out to be the most talented driver since Senna, but without Alonso's telemetry, he would have never challenged for the title, as it was painfully obvious at the end of the season. McLaren should have used the season to win the WDC title with Alonso, who brought them that extra edge in developing and setting up the car, have Lewis get invaluable experience and learn from the master, kiss the FIA's ass for being able to win the WDC despite the biggest cheat in F1's history, and start 2008 with both drivers on equal terms. Your point makes no sense and in fact supports the losing campaign of Team Mclaren in 2007. Like Ron, looks like you are unable to learn from the mistakes of the past.......

Also, you point about Kimi and Massa equality doesn't explain why Ron Dennis didn't take Lewis ass after his absurd behavior in qual in Hungary and nail it to a wall. Allowing a rookie to betray a team agreement due to immature childish behavior has cost mclaren the World Championship. That is not strategy, that's idiocy. Had Massa betrayed team agreements so blatantly, he would be driving an Force Inida this season.............


Unsurprisingly, Ron Dennis and Aldo Costa know things about running an F1 team that you don't, driver motivation among them.

As to Hungary, Lewis was indeed very firmly told off, but Fernando was the one with the immature behaviour, who earned the penalty that cost him the wdc, and who betrayed his team.

#85 Most Fastest

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 23:50

Had Lewis or Fernando won the championship it could have been argued that Ferrari was stupid for not putting all eggs in Kimi's basket early in the season.



Absolutely NOT, because massa was ahead at the beginning of the season. And without having to copy his teamate's telemetry every race.......

The point you make later is right....the 2 drivers must work together until one, for luck or merit, gets in a position where it makes sense to point all efforts on him during the end of the season. Now, to my point, who was responsible to assure a 20 year old wouldn't wreck a half a billion dollars a year operation based on the whims of his inexperience???? Ron Dennis showed to much daddy understanding and not a trace of testicles during the entire 2007 season.

Piquet is smart. He will get the experience and a chance to shine. For a rookie, it's all you can ask. Lewis is fast but he just didn't have the honesty to accept that without Alonso's setups, he would have been nowehre in front. Nelsinho will no bitch about his role, he will consider it an investemnt in his future...learning fom the best

#86 angst

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 23:54

Originally posted by Most Fastest


Absolutely NOT, because massa was ahead at the beginning of the season. And without having to copy his teamate's telemetry every race.......

The point you make later is right....the 2 drivers must work together until one, for luck or merit, gets in a position where it makes sense to point all efforts on him during the end of the season. Now, to my point, who was responsible to assure a 20 year old wouldn't wreck a half a billion dollars a year operation based on the whims of his inexperience???? Ron Dennis showed to much daddy understanding and not a trace of testicles during the entire 2007 season.

Piquet is smart. He will get the experience and a chance to shine. For a rookie, it's all you can ask. Lewis is fast but he just didn't have the honesty to accept that without Alonso's setups, he would have been nowehre in front. Nelsinho will no bitch about his role, he will consider it an investemnt in his future...learning fom the best


blah blah blah....while fundamentally ignoring the very simple fact that the inexperienced driver was the one ahead in the Championship standings for the greater part of (and the most important part of) the season.

#87 Most Fastest

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Posted 12 March 2008 - 23:57

Unsurprisingly, Ron Dennis and Aldo Costa know things about running an F1 team that you don't, driver motivation among them.



About F1, for sure, about motivation, considering I work in neuro sciences and psychology at a top university, I seriously doubt it. Ron Dennis managed to completly allow the relationship between his drivers to go totally sour. Obviously, that shows total lack of drivers managerial skills, no matter what you say

As to Hungary, Lewis was indeed very firmly told off, but Fernando was the one with the immature behaviour, who earned the penalty that cost him the wdc, and who betrayed his team



Incorrect again. Lewis betrayed his team first (it was Alonso's turn to lead in qual). End of story. Once he broke the trust, there are no rules. Alonso retaliated, childish, yes, but a 26 year is hardly more mature than a 20 year old. He deserved the penalty, but Lewis should have been taken by Dennis and explained a thing or two about TEAMWORK. I am sorry that your fan take incapacitates you to see the inability of Dennis to sort the situation and you comparing it to another team that didn't have any teamate issues is ludicrous.

#88 Most Fastest

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 00:04

while fundamentally ignoring the very simple fact that the inexperienced driver was the one ahead in the Championship standings for the greater part of (and the most important part of) the season



Exactly, comfirming you just don't get it. A 500 million dollar operation cannot be based on children behavior. One driver managed to develop and setup the car and has the reputation and the selling image. You go with it during that season. If indeed, the other is faster, you use the season to develop him, show him how to setup the car, understand what the other more experienced driver is doing, so that in 2008, he will have his fair shot at showing his talent. That is mature managerial intelligence. Having one guy develop and setup the car, the other copy the setups and manage to out perform him, tensions and infights exploding, and eventual loss on all fronts is the sign of idiotic management and what should never been done in a competitive environment. Is Lewis faster than Alsonso???? It doesn't matter, not in 2007!!!!! That is what Dennis job was about, getting the title and getting Lewis developed. They failed miserably. And lewis could have learned tons more from co-operating rather than antagonising Alonso. Now, Lewis is 20 and a driver, he has no fault, but Dennis is an idiot. That would have never happened at Williams, Ferrari or Renault. Never

#89 undersquare

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 00:04

Originally posted by Most Fastest


About F1, for sure, about motivation, considering I at a top university, I seriously doubt it. Ron Dennis managed to completly allow the relationship between his drivers to go totally sour. Obviously, that shows total lack of drivers managerial skills, no matter what you say


Incorrect again. Lewis betrayed his team first (it was Alonso's turn to lead in qual). End of story. Once he broke the trust, there are no rules. Alonso retaliated, childish, yes, but a 26 year is hardly more mature than a 20 year old. He deserved the penalty, but Lewis should have been taken by Dennis and explained a thing or two about TEAMWORK. I am sorry that your fan take incapacitates you to see the inability of Dennis to sort the situation and you comparing it to another team that didn't have any teamate issues is ludicrous.


"work in neuro sciences and psychology"? As what? :rotfl:

You're an alonso fanboy, end of story. "Most Fastest", eh? It's going to be a difficult year for you, and bashing Hammy is only going to help a very little bit.

#90 Lazarus II

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 02:50

So Flav says that Hamilton should have supported Alonso and been a team player....only one problem Flav, Hamilton was in fron of Alonso from the first corner of the year. He should pull over and ride behind his slower teammate :lol:

#91 SlateGray

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 03:05

Originally posted by Lazarus II
So Flav says that Hamilton should have supported Alonso and been a team player....only one problem Flav, Hamilton was in fron of Alonso from the first corner of the year. He should pull over and ride behind his slower teammate :lol:


Shame the Golden Child could not finish what he started :blush:

#92 Lazarus II

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 04:06

Originally posted by SlateGray


Shame the Golden Child could not finish what he started :blush:

Same could (more) easily be said about a certain 2x WDC :p

#93 SlateGray

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 13:04

Originally posted by Lazarus II

Same could (more) easily be said about a certain 2x WDC :p


:confused:
Are you talking about how Alonso crushed seven time WDC M Schumacher twice in a row to win back to back WDC's, or are you talking about how Hamilton has one choke in a row and is going for back to back chokes in 2008?

#94 Domination

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 13:21

Originally posted by SlateGray


:confused:
Are you talking about how Alonso crushed seven time WDC M Schumacher twice in a row to win back to back WDC's



In a better car, on better tires and by cruising and collecting. On the other hand Alonso made more mistakes in Canada alone than Hamilton made in the whole season.

#95 SlateGray

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 13:29

Originally posted by Domination


In a better car, on better tires and by cruising and collecting. On the other hand Alonso made more mistakes in Canada alone than Hamilton made in the whole season.


You missed the second part. Do you think Hamilton can do the double, choke that is.

#96 Domination

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 13:31

Originally posted by SlateGray


You missed the second part. Do you think Hamilton can do the double, choke that is.

No, he's a person that learns from his mistakes. But I bet you will be the first one to call him a boring WDC when he does win his WDC by safely netting points.

#97 angst

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 13:36

Originally posted by Most Fastest


Exactly, comfirming you just don't get it. A 500 million dollar operation cannot be based on children behavior. One driver managed to develop and setup the car and has the reputation and the selling image. You go with it during that season. If indeed, the other is faster, you use the season to develop him, show him how to setup the car, understand what the other more experienced driver is doing, so that in 2008, he will have his fair shot at showing his talent. That is mature managerial intelligence. Having one guy develop and setup the car, the other copy the setups and manage to out perform him, tensions and infights exploding, and eventual loss on all fronts is the sign of idiotic management and what should never been done in a competitive environment. Is Lewis faster than Alsonso???? It doesn't matter, not in 2007!!!!! That is what Dennis job was about, getting the title and getting Lewis developed. They failed miserably. And lewis could have learned tons more from co-operating rather than antagonising Alonso. Now, Lewis is 20 and a driver, he has no fault, but Dennis is an idiot. That would have never happened at Williams, Ferrari or Renault. Never


The only thing to get here is that you are a fervent Alonso fan and can see no wrong in his actions. You feel that Alonso should be given No1 status (which I'm sure you would also argue that Alonso didn't ask for....so if he didn't ask for it, why are you?). If he wanted No1 status he should have negotiated such in his contract.

Dennis's job is not to stroke the egos of his drivers, nor is it to quell competitiveness within the team. In fact, the whole argument that you make here (and the basic argument that every Alonso fan seems to make) is that Alonso should have had No1 status (despite vehemently denying that that is what he wanted...??). The simple truth of the matter is that McLaren are not run the same way that Renault are. The team was not going to be built around one driver and his ego - McLaren never has been. It is up to the drivers to gain ascendancy. Alonso was used to being top dog, used to his teammate playing second fiddle (the reason that Fisi never really had a chance, and that any ideas that people might have that Piquet will (be allowed to) be a threat is wide of the mark.

Simple, basic, rock bottom truth to this. Alonso thought that he would have the beating of anyone, has let Flav's ego-stroking he has received at Renault go to his head, thought he was unbeatable. Turned out he wasn't, but instead of being able to face that he turned to the more 'obvious' answer that McLaren must be undermining him in some way. The same thing happened to Pironi when he teamed with Gilles - and we saw how he dealt with it.....

This is what happens when so many big, spoilt egos are thrown together - and I don't seperate Hamilton from this (especially having been given an insight from a Kart team owner as to the level of his 'confidence'), and I will not deny that Hamilton equally acted as a spoilt brat at times during the year - but Alonso must take responsibility for his failure this year, as much as Hamilton must for his.

#98 angst

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 13:38

Originally posted by SlateGray


You missed the second part. Do you think Hamilton can do the double, choke that is.


And you clearly didn't like, and had no answer to the first response...;)

#99 SlateGray

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 13:39

Originally posted by Domination

No, he's a person that learns from his mistakes. But I bet you will be the first one to call him a boring WDC when he does win his WDC by safely netting points.


Ok lets wait until he wins a WDC, could be a long wait. Could be never. But if he wants to choke twice on the trot he should mantain his current form and the choking will take care of itself.

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#100 Domination

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 13:41

Originally posted by SlateGray


Ok lets wait until he wins a WDC, could be a long wait. Could be never. But if he wants to choke twice on the trot he should mantain his current form and the choking will take care of itself.


Sure Hamilton chocked. But you forget Alonso chocked as well last year. Canada, Fuji? Some of the biggest chokes under pressure I've seen.