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Aus GP : Friday Free Practice discussion thread


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#51 Fatgadget

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 10:47

I didn't watch the practice sessions. So what's the verdict on who is copping better without Traction Control and anti- stall gizmos thus far?

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#52 Atreiu

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 10:49

Originally posted by Durant


He looked pretty inconsistent to me all practice. All over the place. The real test will come in the race not one hotlap.


Nobody looked consistent and smooth.

#53 angst

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 10:54

Originally posted by Melbourne Park
Naka though I do not think has the use of a simulator, which Hamilton had the pleasure of using. IF that's true, then he would have to learn the track. And it was a bad day to do that, with a green track and also it was very windy. Plus if you bin the chassis, you are in real trouble, because you cannot bring a spare car now - the rules have changed in that area.

So, I think its pretty tough to can the guy already. Massa almost binned the F2007 - Naka didn't (I think) get close to that. Tomorrow he'll have a much better idea of the track, and what he's doing wrong. He finished the second session with consistent times - sure a little slow - but they were consistent. Maybe he even had some fuel in the car? He's shown he can be quick, and many think that his partner actually is very quick. Give Naka a break - he's a genuine rookie, and he's position is likely providing a lot of benefits to Williams. His only crime so far is being a bit slow - and that's not much of a crime on Friday, in your first GP weekend. He may even do better than Wurz did.



Perhaps you got me wrong (though I tried to emphasise that I am not anti-Nakajima, quite the opposite). I see this in the same light that I see Klien. In both cases the drivers are being lead by the nose by their backers into F1 too early. F1 is an unforgiving environment. What experience does Nakajima have to fall back on? It is that he is a "genuine rookie" that is, imo, the problem. It's not like ha had anything like a faultless season in GP2 - he showed last season that he clearly has a deal to learn - and yet here he is showhorned into a F1 drive. This will do no good for Naka, and no good for Williams. That's all I'm saying. F1 is not (or ought not be) a finishing school.

#54 wingwalker

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 10:54

my verdict on TC is that everyone has it pretty much covered, which means that everyone slides equally on the challenging corners (the last one is a perfect example: coming out line from 14 insantly turns into a line which will define the speed on the straight, so everyone is eager to apply the throttle there).

As for stability, it looks like Renault and Toyota are struggling the most (however, I was sleepy so I could have missed a lot of things). BMW are a bit odd, Heidfeld was show frequently on the replays having slight problems, but Kubica seemed to have it under control all the time (again, that could be me. or selective TV director).

#55 Atreiu

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 10:56

Originally posted by Fatgadget
I didn't watch the practice sessions. So what's the verdict on who is copping better without Traction Control and anti- stall gizmos thus far?


I watched them and it's too early to lay a veridict. The track was too dirty and everyone had problems, sliding, losing time and even putting a wheel or two on the grass. Some pilots even spun. The only fair assumption is that McLaren and Ferrari will pick up where they left last season and continue to dominate the field.


The track also seemeds slower in FP2, how hot was it?

#56 angst

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 10:57

Originally posted by Galko877
Ah, I almost forgot about Fisichella. He was very, very impressive and based on the tests also, I think he is about to rebuild his reputation this year!

To me the guy is an enigma. He always looks like the real deal in smaller teams, weaker cars and when he is in a WCC car he underperforms. Kind of like Frentzen was. I don't know it it's because of the pressure of being in a top team or something else, but very strange.


Just take a long listen to Falvio's slavering and preening comments for Alonso, Alonso's inability to accept equal treatment at McLaren and..... you might be able to put two and two together and figure out what went on at Renault. (likewise, watch as 'wonderkid' Piquet is allowed so much room to challenge his teammate.... :rolleyes: )

#57 Mauseri

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 10:57

I thought the feed was Hamiltonvision, because he was showed whenever on track.

#58 angst

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 10:59

Originally posted by HSJ



I wonder if we were watching the same practice sessions. LH was definitely having problems nailing braking into corners consistently and keeping it on the black stuff. He was one of the least impressive of all in this regard, the speed he had definitely comes from somewhere else, probably the car is great again and forgives mistakes, just like last year.


Thing is, you seem to be watching something different from so many people on so many occasions.....

#59 Mika Mika

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 10:59

Originally posted by HSJ




What? If anything, LH made the most mistakes of the Ferrari and McLaren drivers. Braking in corner entry seemed to be the reason, but the mistakes weren't very big or costly time-wise, unlike Massa's spin. But then LH had trouble keeping it on the black stuff in Melbourne last year as well, so it may not be just because of lack of driver aids.

Alonso and DC(?) seemed to like those graveltrap excursions, they went off big time, but didn't spin. I was really surprised to see BMW and Williams have such technical problems, and BMW weren't that fast either. Red Bull may be surprisingly quick.

Definitely more mistakes were seen by all drivers (rather small mistakes mostly, but still) today than last year, and some drivers clearly made more mistakes than others. Hopefully it will stay this way and the lack of driver aids will make a real difference this year.

Edit:



I wonder if we were watching the same practice sessions. LH was definitely having problems nailing braking into corners consistently and keeping it on the black stuff. He was one of the least impressive of all in this regard, the speed he had definitely comes from somewhere else, probably the car is great again and forgives mistakes, just like last year.


Unfortunately no, kimi and massa both had big offs that the were both 0very luckey to get away with. The McLarens look easier to drive. As you say when they went wide it was much smaller and more manageable.

Kimi was having a mare in FP2 :-(

I'm sorry to disagree but i'm being objective...

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#60 wingwalker

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 11:00

Originally posted by Atreiu


I watched them and it's too early to lay a veridict. The track was too dirty and everyone had problems, sliding, losing time and even putting a wheel or two on the grass. Some pilots even spun. The only fair assumption is that McLaren and Ferrari will pick up where they left last season and continue to dominate the field.


The track also seemes slower in FP2, how hot was it?


Really hot, see the live thread for exact temperatures. IT looks like soft tyre might cause a lof of problems on Sunday - it's going to be as hot as yesterday, with saturday action taking place in slightly cooler conditions.

#61 Anomnader

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 11:03

Would you say that the McLaren cars tyres again prefer hotter temperatures then the Ferraris?

#62 Mauseri

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 11:05

Originally posted by HSJ
I wonder if we were watching the same practice sessions. LH was definitely having problems nailing braking into corners consistently and keeping it on the black stuff. He was one of the least impressive of all in this regard, the speed he had definitely comes from somewhere else, probably the car is great again and forgives mistakes, just like last year.

Reading your post I get the impression you are getting into denial?

Ok, Heikki and others drove more consistently, but Hamilton drives and tries the car much further at the moment. He is handling the car quite nicely considering what he is doing with it. He isnt just pushing it to limit traditionally, he is moving limits.

#63 Anomnader

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 11:09

Originally posted by micra_k10

Reading your post I get the impression you are getting into denial?

Ok, Heikki and others drove more consistently, but Hamilton drives and tries the car much further at the moment. He is handling the car quite nicely considering what he is doing with it. He isnt just pushing it to limit traditionally, he is moving limits.


Like he did in GP2, again its going to be a pity that the rules of F1, engine rules, tyres, etc punish adventurers driving :-(

#64 Atreiu

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 11:09

Originally posted by Anomnader
Would you say that the McLaren cars tyres again prefer hotter temperatures then the Ferraris?


Do they? Ferrari won Malaysia and Turkyey last year. Both were hot.


What will be the supporting race this weekend? I think only after they have rubbered the track in their practice we'll get a clear picture.

#65 wingwalker

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 11:09

As for Hamilton, he looked to be struggling a bit. In 2007 his style required a car with a touch of oversteer, he was taking it on a limit of sliding, which might be problematic this year - not in terms of singe lap performance, but tyre wear. But of course he knows that and far more so we will see.

#66 Anomnader

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 11:11

Originally posted by Atreiu


Do they? Ferrari won Malaysia and Turkyey last year. Both were hot.


What will be the supporting race this weekend? I think only after they have rubbered the track in their practice we'll get a clear picture.


McLaren won in Malaysia.

#67 Atreiu

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 11:13

Sorry, I meant Bahrain.

#68 Anomnader

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 11:19

Originally posted by Atreiu
Sorry, I meant Bahrain.


Its just an impression I had, and as we saw today, when it was hotter the McLarens were faster (or seemed to be, over a couple of laps)

#69 archstanton

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 11:19

Originally posted by wingwalker
As for Hamilton, he looked to be struggling a bit. In 2007 his style required a car with a touch of oversteer, he was taking it on a limit of sliding, which might be problematic this year - not in terms of singe lap performance, but tyre wear. But of course he knows that and far more so we will see.


are you 100% sure ... i could be wrong, but my impression was the oppostie. apart from that one run with a curious setup (that we saw him try and dial-in onboard) that caused a few really wild corners ... apart from that, he was a lot less leary than i was expecting.

he does historically go to the edge in practice, just to see where it is, but i thought he had track to spare in these sessions, and i've seen him slide the tail around a lot more than today.

not saying he's not going to struggle with tyres, i think he might if compounds get marginal, just, i didn't see much off it in these sessions

#70 Rinehart

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 11:20

Originally posted by micra_k10
I thought the feed was Hamiltonvision, because he was showed whenever on track.


That isn't even a remotely accurate statement. Why do you hate Hamilton so much?

#71 as65p

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 11:25

Originally posted by angst


Just take a long listen to Falvio's slavering and preening comments for Alonso, Alonso's inability to accept equal treatment at McLaren and..... you might be able to put two and two together and figure out what went on at Renault. (likewise, watch as 'wonderkid' Piquet is allowed so much room to challenge his teammate.... :rolleyes: )


Sure, that must be why Fisi suddenly blossomed at Renault and completely dominated his teammate, once Alonso was gone. It was all the evil spaniard holding poor Giancarlo back... :cry:

#72 abc

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 11:32

i have my concern about Kimis form. :down: He didnt impressed me once since the modified F2008 was launched. Felipe managed super times in Barcelona and Kimi was nowhere near, in addition to this Felipe is full of confidence last days and it seems he knows he is quicker than Kimi at the moment. :up:

Kimi was slower in FP1 as well excluding 2 laps in ideal track conditions and FP2 went horrible for Kimi. :confused:

#73 Anomnader

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 11:32

well.....

Fisi did OK against Kova, who seems to be doing an OK job against Lewis who whipped Alonso tusie, so... :drunk:

#74 Anomnader

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 11:34

Originally posted by abc
i have my concern about Kimis form. :down: He didnt impressed me once since the modified F2008 was launched. Felipe managed super times in Barcelona and Kimi was nowhere near, in addition to this Felipe is full of confidence last days and it seems he knows he is quicker than Kimi at the moment. :up:

Kimi was slower in FP1 as well excluding 2 laps in ideal track conditions and FP2 went horrible for Kimi. :confused:

That seems very similar to last year. Maybe Massa is a better car developer and gets it suited to himself better and then Kimi has to adjust.

But I think its very early to think like this, its free practice and I bet Kimi will finish in front of Massa at the end on sunday baring mechanics or crashes

#75 angst

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 11:46

Originally posted by as65p


Sure, that must be why Fisi suddenly blossomed at Renault and completely dominated his teammate, once Alonso was gone. It was all the evil spaniard holding poor Giancarlo back... :cry:


Well, let's see how Alonso "blossoms" at Renault this year. And maybe, just maybe, Heikki is better than you give him credit for. Here's the thing, Kovalainnen didn't exactly slaughter Fisichella (his second place drive in Japan - a very great drive - skewed their overall championhip positions). Equally Alonso was usually outpaced by his less experienced teammate. Strange how one can find the excuses to keep Alonso atop a pedestal, whereas a nother driver marginally beaten by a highly rated rookie is useless. It will be interesting to see how Kovalainen compares to Hamilton this year - that might put Fisi's relative performance into a better light. Not that I'd expect you to see that....., because you see only one thing. Sad, really.

#76 denthierry

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 11:52

Originally posted by karlth
Hamilton's run was probably a qualifying simulation(Race fuel) based on quotes from McLaren.
Don't understand then what Heikki was doing as he went out on soft tyres as well.


which quote from McLaren makes you think that?

#77 rally man

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 12:00

Originally posted by abc
i have my concern about Kimis form. :down: He didnt impressed me once since the modified F2008 was launched. Felipe managed super times in Barcelona and Kimi was nowhere near, in addition to this Felipe is full of confidence last days and it seems he knows he is quicker than Kimi at the moment. :up:



I also found that Kimi's bodylanguage was much more lighter and joyfull with old specification. In Barcelona he looked serious.

But, it's interesting to see how it turns out tomorrow. In principle this should be Kimi's track.

#78 abc

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 12:04

Originally posted by rally man


I also found that Kimi's bodylanguage was much more lighter and joyfull with old specification. In Barcelona he looked serious.

But, it's interesting to see how it turns out tomorrow. In principle this should be Kimi's track.


Exactly my feeling. :
:wave:

#79 Mika Mika

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 12:09

Originally posted by micra_k10

Reading your post I get the impression you are getting into denial?

Ok, Heikki and others drove more consistently, but Hamilton drives and tries the car much further at the moment. He is handling the car quite nicely considering what he is doing with it. He isnt just pushing it to limit traditionally, he is moving limits.


I concur,

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#80 as65p

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 12:10

Originally posted by angst


Well, let's see how Alonso "blossoms" at Renault this year. And maybe, just maybe, Heikki is better than you give him credit for. Here's the thing, Kovalainnen didn't exactly slaughter Fisichella (his second place drive in Japan - a very great drive - skewed their overall championhip positions). Equally Alonso was usually outpaced by his less experienced teammate. Strange how one can find the excuses to keep Alonso atop a pedestal, whereas a nother driver marginally beaten by a highly rated rookie is useless. It will be interesting to see how Kovalainen compares to Hamilton this year - that might put Fisi's relative performance into a better light. Not that I'd expect you to see that....., because you see only one thing. Sad, really.


Contrary to you I try not to make un-based assumptions, so I'm not ultimately judging Heikki nor Lewis after one season. With Alonso and Fisi it's quite a different matter, we've seen enough of both to come to conclusions. Only that yours doesn't seem to fit with reality - you know, that thing which tells us that Fisi is driving at Force India this year. I suppose in your world that's also part of the big Briatore-Alonso conspiracy against Fisi, eh?

#81 karlth

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 12:12

Originally posted by denthierry


which quote from McLaren makes you think that?


McLaren press release. Either Ron or Norbert said they had tested Q setup in FP2.

#82 angst

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 12:13

Originally posted by as65p


Contrary to you I try not to make un-based assumptions, so I'm not ultimately judging Heikki nor Lewis after one season. With Alonso and Fisi it's quite a different matter, we've seen enough of both to come to conclusions. Only that yours doesn't seem to fit with reality - you know, that thing which tells us that Fisi is driving at Force India this year. I suppose in your world that's also part of the big Briatore-Alonso conspiracy against Fisi, eh?


See? Blah blah blah. Alonso's great blah blah blah..... Fisichella (despite Flavio's clear messages) wasn't treated as a number two at renault (blah blah blah) it's just that Alonso is so great. And he wasn't cuddled enough at McLaren, so that evil Dr. Hamilton cheated him and nasty Ron as well and ... and ... it's not fair (stamp feet here)... blah blah blah.

#83 Melbourne Park

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 12:23

Originally posted by karlth


Williams do have a simulator, although probably not as advanced as McLaren's.

Ah - I am wrong. It must be Renault that doesn't have one.

Oh well then - Naka takes a step further down ... but I'll still give him time. And Williams fans, the team needs to have a Japanese driver, they are paying some of Williams bills! At least having him allowed Rosberg to stay. And should Naka get fast, I'd love to see a fast F1 driver from Japan.

#84 p432rpp

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 12:31

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Melbourne Park
[B]Ah - I am wrong. It must be Renault that doesn't have one.

I remeber last season Fred mentioning that Renault had one but it was nowhere near as good as McMerc's...

#85 yvonne.kk

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 12:36

Originally posted by Anomnader

That seems very similar to last year. Maybe Massa is a better car developer and gets it suited to himself better and then Kimi has to adjust.

But I think its very early to think like this, its free practice and I bet Kimi will finish in front of Massa at the end on sunday baring mechanics or crashes


If FM is a better developer than KR,I don't think the team would make KR use two different set-up in separtely two session practice.Especially KR felt good at the first one.

#86 as65p

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 12:36

Originally posted by angst


See? Blah blah blah. Alonso's great blah blah blah..... Fisichella (despite Flavio's clear messages) wasn't treated as a number two at renault (blah blah blah) it's just that Alonso is so great. And he wasn't cuddled enough at McLaren, so that evil Dr. Hamilton cheated him and nasty Ron as well and ... and ... it's not fair (stamp feet here)... blah blah blah.


And there was me thinking you're an adult person. My mistake, sorry...

Nowhere in my post did I talk about Alonsos greatness. My point is simply that you would be hard pressed to find anyone in the paddock who shares your opinion that Fisi is as good as Alonso, and that's reflected in where they are driving and what they are getting paid for it, also in those minor side-issues like wins and championships.

But sure, you know better than all of them, and if it wasn't for Flavio, Fisi would be a multiple champion by now...

You try really hard to reach HSJ-like delusional heights today. If that was indeed your intention: nice effort!

#87 HP

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 12:50

Originally posted by Durant


Yes I saw him doing a number of big power slides, under steering, running wide ect. Out of all of that he finally managed to hook up a good lap right at the end on fumes. Well done.

Would you please tell us then about Alonso's offs then, they were not any better.

#88 Mauseri

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 12:53

Originally posted by Rinehart
Why do you hate Hamilton so much?

Maybe it would help to read the other post? I dont like or hate him, I'm neutral.

I thought this was a joke, maybe you are being oversensitive?

#89 HP

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 12:56

Originally posted by Atreiu


Nobody looked consistent and smooth.

My sentiment to. I think they all were searching for the limits, and quite frankly, it was enjoyable to watch the powerslides from almost everybody coming out of turn 14.

It's good to see that the removal of TC does make a huge difference, audibly and visibly. I think we'll see quite a few mistakes during the race that cost driver position.

#90 Nobody

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 12:56

Poor Super Aguri - after a great '07 they have now to drive all year with an absolute dud of a machine.

The RA107 will surely bury them by the end of the season.

#91 rodlamas

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 12:57

Originally posted by karlth


McLaren press release. Either Ron or Norbert said they had tested Q setup in FP2.


On the live thread I said Hamilton's 26.559 lap was a Q3 simulation.

The fanboyism form the Mclaren side will this was not a Q3 simulation, but in fact the first possible lap of a race stint (which means more fuel than Q3 considereing that we're gonna see forwarded fuel strategies), whereas the Ferrari fanboys are gonna say this was a Q2 simulation.

Given what's been seen today, for the moment Hamilton is the race favourite. But let's wait for FP3 and qual.

#92 HP

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 12:58

Originally posted by Anomnader

Button should do very well as he is one of the smoothest drivers out there.

Won't do much as that Honda still has no pace.

#93 Fatgadget

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 13:03

Originally posted by HP
Would you please tell us then about Alonso's offs then, they were not any better.


Durant reminds me of Arsene Wenger when it comes to his team's transgressions....I didn't see anything! :lol:

#94 Peter

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 13:04

Kimi does not look happy - indeed he looks close to tears!

http://www.motoring....=756&fSetId=381

:)

#95 HP

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 13:06

Originally posted by wingwalker
As for Hamilton, he looked to be struggling a bit. In 2007 his style required a car with a touch of oversteer, he was taking it on a limit of sliding, which might be problematic this year - not in terms of singe lap performance, but tyre wear. But of course he knows that and far more so we will see.

Almost everybody complained of understeer. That is normal on a dirty track. I would think that as the weekend goes on those who prefer oversteer will be in a better position for the race. And well, in turn 14 almost everybody is sliding there, but as the track gets better that might change, and not be a problem at all.

#96 SuperDaan

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 13:08

my guess is that we will see a 1.25.5 tomorow, McLaren will have a slight advantage in Q but the Ferrari race pace will be slightly better so after the first pitstops I think there will be 1 Ferrari in front of the McLarens

#97 Atreiu

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 13:10

Originally posted by rodlamas


Given what's been seen today, for the moment Hamilton is the race favourite. But let's wait for FP3 and qual.


I still think Raikkonen is the favourite, he really impressed me in FP1.
But I do think Hamilton will split the Ferraris on the grid or even get pole.

#98 F1_conman

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 13:16

Hamilton looked good yesterday - and I agree he's the favourite

#99 BMW_F1

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 13:20

[QUOTE]Originally posted by p432rpp
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Melbourne Park
[B]Ah - I am wrong. It must be Renault that doesn't have one.

I remeber last season Fred mentioning that Renault had one but it was nowhere near as good as McMerc's...
[/QUOTE]

Alonso recently said that Renault does not have a simulator.

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#100 HP

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 13:21

Originally posted by F1_conman
Hamilton looked good yesterday - and I agree he's the favourite

For me, Massa might be the joker. In FP1 on his best laps he was hindered twice by Trulli. And in FP2 he came in too hot on the softs and almost collected the wall.

If he gets the qualification right, he might win on Sunday.