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F1 and enviromental friendlyness....


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#1 Henri Greuter

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 12:11

Got to hear this one this morning when discussing F1's season start with some mates of me.

OK so F1 becomes enviromental friendly
Those rediculous fuel burning laps in Qualifying are gone.
OK
The KERS is introduced next season for recovering otherwise lost energy.
Fine

but.....

How much more energy will be necessary to enable those night races? Probably a lot more than will be saved now all those fuel burning laps are gone and all the KERS' devices ever can recover.
And all of this for the bank account of a certain mr E.

Oh well.....


Henri

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#2 Perigee

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 12:21

Originally posted by Henri Greuter
And all of this for the bank account of a certain mr E.

Henri

C'mon - the Winter fuel allowance to pensioners is going up all that much and poor old Mr E has got to be able to pay his gas bill some how!

#3 Beef Eater

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 12:25

Millions of Europe people have to get up in the middle of a night, turn on lights, TVs and so on. Do they consume extra power? Did you think about it?

#4 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 12:43

Originally posted by Henri Greuter
How much more energy will be necessary to enable those night races?


5400 kW ...

the power of a large number of F1 cars ;)

The same lighting as required for 70 night time football fixtures.

http://www.foxsports...5-23770,00.html

#5 HP

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 13:17

Originally posted by Henri Greuter

And all of this for the bank account of a certain mr E.

Don't forget that the loss of having to pay teams more of the revenue must be compensated somehow. Not that I agree about the way to go, but Ecclestone is a business man and a sharp cookie at it too.

#6 AyePirate

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 13:47

It's all a drop in the bucket compared to the thousands of flights, rail trips and road trips required to get the grid, it's entourage, the press and the fans to each race.


An actual Green F1 race would take place in virtual reality on a simulator as a webcast. All the rest is a marketing hook,fake feel good window dressing. Green F1 is BS.

#7 spwolf

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 14:18

Originally posted by V8 Fireworks


5400 kW ...

the power of a large number of F1 cars ;)

The same lighting as required for 70 night time football fixtures.

http://www.foxsports...5-23770,00.html



lights are really not an issue - 70 night time football fixtures? In Europe alone, every saturday, you have thousands of night games. And we are talking about 2 GP's per season.

But yeah, WHY NOT make F1 more enviroment friendly with much better hybrid technoliges than KERS and then fuel limitations? Again, it is drop in the sea but it is making the statement.

I would like to see KERS much more advanced in the future, it is pretty dissapointng to hear that KERS has only 20% energy recouperation vs race Supra that has 70%. This is F1, pinnacle of technology.

#8 uffen

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 15:59

Yes, the night race idea makes F1 less environmental, regardless of the level of environmental impact of F1 existing. Adding lights makes itworse. And, as correctly pointed out by the Australian organizers, you have to light the whole bloody place, not just the track, in order to safeguard the security and safety of the spectators, participants, workers, etc.

Bernie's expansion has gone slightly awry. He wanted to grow his audience so he moved to open new venues in non-traditional markets. That backfired, his audience shrunk. So, he started to demand night races, to help get that audience back (no, he wasn't concerned about their "convenience" just his numbers).

So, the FIA tries to make F1 greener by planting trees and mandating energy recovery technology for the cars. Bernie throws those meagre gains in the bin by requiring the circus to fly to more and more distant locales, and then do it all at night.

Bernie says places like Magny-Cours are done because he must "bring F1 to the audience" and wants a Paris race. Yet, he took F1 away from the audience on a huge scale by moving races to the Middle East and new Asian venues. (Hence, his race at night demands.) don't get me started on tax $ and new facilities.

The whole plot is now so disjointed that the costs, the environment and the fans are whirling around in an eddy of confusion and frustration.

#9 kar

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 16:03

Originally posted by AyePirate
It's all a drop in the bucket compared to the thousands of flights, rail trips and road trips required to get the grid, it's entourage, the press and the fans to each race.


So because a tonne of energy is being wasted already it's not so bad then to waste a tonne more?

#10 BMW_F1

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 16:16

there is nothing wrong with night racing .. get over it.

#11 Frank Booth

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 16:24

It's too late any way, the human race as we know it is in the beginning of the end game. Lets just enjoy ourselves while we still can. I'm going to have a tuna sandwich and use as much gas as I can since it will be gone even if I don't.

#12 AyePirate

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 16:28



Originally posted by kar


So because a tonne of energy is being wasted already it's not so bad then to waste a tonne more?


You're up in arms about a tiny fraction of the joules expended on a race weekend.
The lights at the track are a trifle compared to the fleets of airliners required to make a race weekend happen.
If energy expenditure for entertainment purposes really bugs you don't go races turn off your TV and stop supporting it altogether.

Too bad we can't harness whingepower :lol:

#13 kar

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 16:37

Originally posted by AyePirate


You're up in arms about a tiny fraction of the joules expended on a race weekend.
The lights at the track are a trifle compared to the fleets of airliners required to make a race weekend happen.
If energy expenditure for entertainment purposes really bugs you don't go races turn off your TV and stop supporting it altogether.


I think you misunderstand my viewpoint, that or you're polarising it since it's easier to dismiss it that way.

My point is, and remains, that F1 is going to huge lengths to promote itself as environmentally avant guard, while on one hand it is putting some pretty paint on one team's car and introducing some energy recovery technology into the formula. On the other it is increasing its carbon footprint unnecessarily by insisting on night races where they previously have not been required.

F1 is indeed threatening to remove races from the calendar if they do not host a night time race.

I think frankly this is ridiculous. If F1 is serious about carbon emissions night races should be forgotten about. Yes F1 wastes lots of energy as it is, but I don't think wasting more is a brilliant idea. Particularly while trying to paint the sport as 'carbon neutral' or whatever.

I have no problem with the burning of fossil fuels etc for a racing series. That's fine in the overall scheme of things, it's nothing. But I do have a problem with F1 trying to paint itself as green while taking the piss with this whole night race business.

And this is separate to my concerns about the EUs announced carbon crackdown and the role F1 is playing in increasing carbon emissions in a highly visible sport specifically for the benefit of Europe.

#14 AyePirate

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 16:40

Originally posted by kar


I think you misunderstand my viewpoint, that or you're polarising it since it's easier to dismiss it that way.

My point is, and remains, that F1 is going to huge lengths to promote itself as environmentally avant guard, while on one hand it is putting some pretty paint on one team's car and introducing some energy recovery technology into the formula it is also increasing its carbon footprint necessarily by insisting on night races where they previously have not been required.

F1 is indeed threatening to remove races from the calendar if they do not host a night time race.

I think frankly this is ridiculous. If F1 is serious about carbon emissions night races should be forgotten about. Yes F1 wastes lots of energy as it is, but I don't think wasting more is a brilliant idea. Particularly while trying to paint the sport as 'carbon neutral' or whatever.

I have no problem with the burning of fossil fuels etc for a racing series. That's fine in the overall scheme of things it's nothing. But I do have a problem with F1 trying to paint itself as green while taking the piss with this whole night race business.

And this is separate to my concerns about the EUs announced carbon crackdown and the role F1 is playing in increasing carbon emissions in a highly visible sport specifically for the benefit of Europe.


F1's Green-ness has all the depth of the decals on last year's Honda. It's just an attempt to placate the not too bright of the loon brigade. If they were serious they'd convert the cars to hydrogen at the very least.