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Aus GP : Saturday Qualifying discussion thread


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#51 Leons

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 04:32

Kubica! wow! it was fantastic! congratulation!;)

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#52 mariuszek

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 04:33

Hamilton vs Kubica again as in karting, that was fantastic :clap:

#53 i.am.cloned

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 04:34

Originally posted by former champ
They have speed and I'm thinking their race pace will be superior tomorrow.

Not so sure about that, in practices they failed to show their speed, now this ruined qualification...

#54 inca_roads

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 04:34

Originally posted by primer


Piquet and Nakajima are living on borrowed time.


Nakajima didn't do too badly. In Q2 he was as close to Rosberg as Kovalainen was to Hamilton in Q3, for example - only 3 and half tenths. It's just that the tight midfield means a larger difference in position.

#55 Josta

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 04:35

Originally posted by former champ


Christ. Good to see everyone is an expert after the first qualy session of the season is done. What makes you think Massa is no good without the toys? He qualified 4th and could easily have been quicker, nor do we know how much fuel he has. He backed off on his last run.

Had Raikkonen been untroubled he would have been right there too.


I am just commenting on winter testing. According to Autosport and Massa's race engineer, Massa had more problems adapting to the lack of engine braking and TC than any other driver. He spent more time going off than any other driver. Rob Smedley, his race engineer, reckons that he has the ability to learn this but admits this is his problem.

#56 MrAerodynamicist

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 04:35

Looking at the time difference between Q2 and Q3, the McLarens, BMWs and Massa are all roughly the same amount slower between the two sessions, then there's a big jump to 6th onwards. I wonder if that's a sign that there's two 'strategy groups', and the Williams, Toyotas, RBR will be going a decent number of laps longer?

1. Hamilton +1.527
2. Kubica +1.554
3. Kovalainen +1.627
4. Massa +1.487
5. Heidfeld +1.718
6. Trulli +2.426
7. Rosberg +2.628
8. Coulthard +2.978
9. Glock +3.429

#57 former champ

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 04:37

Originally posted by Mika Mika


Maybe, but that ferrari look like a handfull to drive, i said the same in the pratice's too, now they have the bimmers to worry about too...


How much you want to bet Kubica is light? The Ferrari looked a handful but Hamilton wasn't exactly on rails either. I don't see too much difference between McLaren and Ferrari so far. You can't base it all on one qualy session, at least wait till the race is run.

That's where the Ferrari will be at its strongest IMO. Think Massa knows this too, he didn't seem to concerned when he backed off on his last flying lap. BMW are not an issue I think, I'd be very surprised if RK is running a fuel load similar to Massa or Hamilton.

#58 Cenotaph

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 04:38

Ppl are judging Ferrari too quickly, they definitely have the pace. Massa was close to Hamilton on the 1st try, and ppl seem to think Massa is not adapting to the new ECU very well, so... Not trying to go a 2nd time suggests Ferrari are aiming for a late stop with Massa, and the same will apply to KR.

Loved BMW's day, they are hard to setup but they seem able to fight for wins :clap: Loved how Kubica managed to stay only one tenth behind Lewis even with that mistake (a mistake that looked great on TV non the less).

The Toyotas are back and Vettel is gold. :up:

#59 former champ

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 04:39

Originally posted by i.am.cloned
Not so sure about that, in practices they failed to show their speed, now this ruined qualification...


Raikkonen set the fastest time in Friday practice. Massa was right with Hamilton before the last flying laps in qualy, then he backed off. I'd say Ferrari have race pace well and truly up their sleeves.

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#60 i.am.cloned

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 04:39

Originally posted by MrAerodynamicist
Looking at the time difference between Q2 and Q3, the McLarens, BMWs and Massa are all roughly the same amount slower between the two sessions, then there's a big jump to 6th onwards. I wonder if that's a sign that there's two 'strategy groups', and the Williams, Toyotas, RBR will be going a decent number of laps longer?

My quess is that McLaren and Ferrari just don't try that hard in Q2, they don't go on fumes in it as others who really fight for getting into Q3.

#61 awake27

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 04:41

Originally posted by jokuvaan
Kimi's only hope for win is safety car at the very right moment. I hope start goes well.
Last year Massa went 22.->6. and there was no safety car if I remember right.

Fuel loads total unknown at top10....

Steady work from Heikki.

Kubica fast as winter showed, one of drivers who benefited the new ECU.

Massa last year had the fastest car in race pace (remember the flexi-floor?). So Raikkonen progress will depend on his strategy and how much time will lose behind the midfield cars. A one-pitstop strategy sounds too risky with hot conditions, soft compound wear and without the electronics. So I expect difficult race tomorrow, a 6th place will be great (behind McLs-BMWs-Massa) under the circumstances.

#62 indian

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 04:42

Originally posted by Cenotaph
Ppl are judging Ferrari too quickly, they definitely have the pace. Massa was close to Hamilton on the 1st try, and ppl seem to think Massa is not adapting to the new ECU very well, so... Not trying to go a 2nd time suggests Ferrari are aiming for a late stop with Massa, and the same will apply to KR.

Massa did make a 2nd attempt, but he didn't improve in S1/S2 (don't know if he made a mistake), so I guess Ferrari decided to save more fuel by aborting the lap.

#63 former champ

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 04:42

Originally posted by Josta


I am just commenting on winter testing. According to Autosport and Massa's race engineer, Massa had more problems adapting to the lack of engine braking and TC than any other driver. He spent more time going off than any other driver. Rob Smedley, his race engineer, reckons that he has the ability to learn this but admits this is his problem.


Firstly, I wouldn't believe anything Mark Hughes writes in Autosport. Tool instantly springs to mind. Secondly, Massa didn't seem to have an issue today and when he was on it, was very quick and right with Lewis and McLaren. I'd say Massa is being unfairly judged based on his first year or two in F1. He has great car control, lack of TC is no issue for him IMO. Maybe his engineer was concerned at first but can't see how he would be now, or was ever.

#64 jokuvaan

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 04:43

one-pitstop strategy sounds too risky with hot conditions

Luckily that applies to others too, more there is pitstops, more Kimi can move up.

#65 pacwest

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 04:44

"Pace" does not equate to sitting on the track with a dead fuel pressure regulator.

Pace = speed and reliability. I can have "pace" for 100 feet and it wouldn't mean jack if I blew a piston at 101 feet.

#66 Durant

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 04:45

Renault are idiots for not having two runs in q2 when it was obvious they would struggle for pace. Then again maybe they knew they wouldnt get much further in q3 so they thought just outside the top 10 is better but its still not a good attitude.

#67 Nobody

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 04:47

Originally posted by inca_roads


Nakajima didn't do too badly. In Q2 he was as close to Rosberg as Kovalainen was to Hamilton in Q3, for example - only 3 and half tenths. It's just that the tight midfield means a larger difference in position.


I agree, and on a circuit he's not driven before. I reckon he ain't too shabby.

#68 i.am.cloned

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 04:48

Originally posted by former champ


Raikkonen set the fastest time in Friday practice. Massa was right with Hamilton before the last flying laps in qualy, then he backed off. I'd say Ferrari have race pace well and truly up their sleeves.

Well, we'll see who's better at predicting soon:)

#69 F1_conman

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 04:50

as I remember Hamilton mentioned before 2007 season started that Kubica is tha man he feared the most from the new genaration. LET THE SHOW BEGIN

#70 former champ

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 04:52

Originally posted by i.am.cloned
Well, we'll see who's better at predicting soon:)


we shall. ;)

#71 Chui

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 05:01

SF will be just fine. This is only the first race with 16 to go. Don't count them out by a long shot.

Congrats to BMW and Kubica. He almost had pole.

I empathize with Kimi.

McLaren seems to be off on the right foot.

I empathize with Alonso though US$40 mill per year aint bad.

It's up to Massa to bring home the bacon.

I'm hoping LH can bring home the big trophy with Kubica a close second and Massa and Heikki battling for third.

#72 noikeee

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 05:14

McLaren - Well done Lewis, convincing throughout the weekend, he must be the favourite for tomorrow too. Heikki never seemed quite as strong but still that's a good debut with a new team. I think there'll be 1 lap difference in fuel between the two, not sure who's the lighter. The whole nonsense of "there's no experience in their drivers, McLaren is going to struggle" so far seems to be exactly that: nonsense.

Ferrari - Wow, that was a disaster! Please keep in mind however that Massa missed his final lap, that Kimi might have been quicker than Massa (although he didn't really look all that good ever since FP2), and that the Ferrari is reported to be much better in long stints than in 1-lap pace. I'm expecting Massa to have the fastest car from the top 5 in the race tomorrow, and should fight for the win should he get a good start and keep himself away from mistakes. Ferrari's position isn't as bad as it might first look, even if the reliability is worrying.

BMW Sauber - Officially the "Sandbagging Challenge 2008" champions. They must've been running all winter with a lot of ballast/fuel, because today they exceeded my most optimistic expectations. However I believe Kubica was fuelled light, to get pole most for publicity than anything else. I don't think they will keep up with the McLarens and Ferraris tomorrow but will be there to grab a podium or even a win if something happens to their opponents and if luck is on their side.

Renault - I'm now convinced the R28 is really bad. When a guy like Alonso can't put that truck into anything better than 12th (would've been a 14th on merit, since Kimi and Webber were quicker), it really says a lot about the car. For Piquet's sake, I hope that time was due to some problem, otherwise it's embarrassing, pathetic, etc. He was beaten by Sato, ffs.

Red Bull - too bad Webber had that problem, otherwise he'd be up there as he looked quick. Contenders for best of the rest (BMW officially doesn't qualify as part of this group anymore ;) )

Toyota - did well. Glock surprised me by being right there next to Trulli. I hope they don't need to change his gearbox.

Toro Rosso - Vettel is the man of the day, awesome job. I don't feel like criticising Bourdais for some reason, though.

Williams - as expected. Nico should get a nice sum of points tomorrow. Kazuki wasn't as quick as he seemed in testing, but considering how his Brazil race went last year, he might be one of those guys that is better in the races than in qualy.

Honda - WAY better than expected, that final Jerez test did gave them a big push! Congratulations to the guys who worked on it and apologies for all the jokes I've made during the entire testing period. I'm impressed.

Force India - as expected too. Fisi didn't get what he wished for, which was getting into Q2, but like I had said in that other thread, he only needed a car or two to stuff up for it to happen. Sutil seems back to his erratic moments.

Super Aguri - beat a Renault. Congratulations to Takuma Sato.

-------------------

Before this weekend I thought this all was going to be really boring, but it's gone completely the other way around. It's shaping up for an epic race:

- 3 teams at the front close together.
- Possible fastest car on track starting from P4, will need a good start and/or creative pit strategy.
- Another possible fastest car on track starting from P15 at best, we will get to see some passes.
- A car likely very light mixing it up on the front (Kubica). I hope he jumps Lewis at the start.
- TC and engine braking ban having a huge effect. It's really spectacular to watch.
- Related to the above, there's a very high chance we'll see mistakes, cars in dangerous positions and therefore safety cars, bringing in randomness to the race.

Anything can happen, really. I'm looking forward to tomorrow. :up:

#73 snx843

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 05:16

Originally posted by Durant
Should be a gifted victory for Hamilton.

:stoned: :drunk: :rotfl:

#74 snx843

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 05:20

Originally posted by F1_conman
as I remember Hamilton mentioned before 2007 season started that Kubica is tha man he feared the most from the new genaration. LET THE SHOW BEGIN


BMW are on fumes, showboating, they will FADE away again ! Ferrari have a temp glitch, no way BMW will be anywhere Mclaren come the chequered flag, come a few races down the line...

People are raving about BMW, they will pit on lap3.

#75 shonguiz

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 05:21

Originally posted by snx843


BMW are on fumes, showboating, they will FADE away again ! Ferrari have a temp glitch, no way BMW will be anywhere Mclaren come the chequered flag, come a few races down the line...

People are raving about BMW, they will pit on lap3.

Pure BS, check Q2 times.

#76 former champ

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 05:24

Originally posted by shonguiz

Pure BS, check Q2 times.


so you think McLaren and Ferrari were right at the maximum in Q2? You think that's as fast as Hamilton/Kovalainen/Massa could go?

#77 shonguiz

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 05:25

And why wouldn't they ?? Q2 is here to pull out the maximum of your car.

#78 i.am.cloned

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 05:26

Originally posted by shonguiz
And why wouldn't they ?? Q2 is here to pull out the maximum of your car.

no. q2 is there to decide who will fight for pole in q3.

#79 Cenotaph

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 05:28

We'll see... BMW looked great today, both in Practice and Qualifying, they can't be that bad.

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#80 kamix

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 05:29

Originally posted by paranoik0

BMW Sauber - Officially the "Sandbagging Challenge 2008" champions. They must've been running all winter with a lot of ballast/fuel, because today they exceeded my most optimistic expectations. However I believe Kubica was fuelled light, to get pole most for publicity than anything else. I don't think they will keep up with the McLarens and Ferraris tomorrow but will be there to grab a podium or even a win if something happens to their opponents and if luck is on their side.


I think you're getting over excited about BMW. If Kubica is light on fuel, they are where we expected them to be all along (slower than the Ferrari and Mclaren). I really don't expect them to challenge McLaren tomorrow.

#81 Galko877

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 05:31

Being handled as clear favourites, this is a true disaster for Ferrari. Still I think Massa has a chance to climb up tomorrow, the question is by how much. If what they say about Ferrari's superior race pace is true, it shouldn't be a problem, although let's not forget Massa has been criticized (so far rightfully) that he can't win from anywhere else than pole. Now this is a chance for him to prove otherwise. For Kimi it's also an opportunity to show what he's made of.

Well, McLaren being strong in qualy isn't a surprise, even with Ferrari not having problems they could have secured pole but BMW is surely better than expected. Let's see if they can keep it up in the race as well.

Well done to Heikki! Last year this race Hamilton wasn't this close to Alonso, so he has a good chance to challange him over the season if he progresses the way Lewis did last season.

Good showing by Toyota (poor Ralf), Barrichello and also Vettel and Coulthard. It seems Alonso is into a difficult season, Piquet is unimpressive again.

#82 molive

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 05:35

Its Hamilton's race to lose now. :

Kubica is probably lighter, and will serve a moving chicane for both Heikki and Felipe. If LH doesnt make any mistake (and, with that great handling Mac, why would he) it's in the bag.

I wont be surprised if Kimi manages a podium. Melbourne is great for crazy results.

As for Massa, now the only chance for a win is to somehow manage to pass Kubica and Kova early (judging by the pace of the Polish, looks difficult).

Rubinho :up: :

Nelsinho :o Albert Park + 1st race seemed to have got to him big time. He looks shy and without confidence. BUT, keep this post for future reference: the kid IS very good and will bounce back.

#83 noikeee

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 05:37

Originally posted by kamix


I think you're getting over excited about BMW. If Kubica is light on fuel, they are where we expected them to be all along (slower than the Ferrari and Mclaren). I really don't expect them to challenge McLaren tomorrow.


I'm getting excited because most people got the impression from testing that BMW wouldn't be any better than Renault/Red Bull/Williams/Toyota - and now it turns out they're miles ahead from that group, and even look slightly closer to McLaren/Ferrari than last year.

It has clearly been a very good day for them.

#84 molive

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 05:37

Originally posted by Galko877
Now this is a chance for him to prove otherwise.


Prob is, Albert Park is not an easy track to pass, specially with a quick BMW ahead.

But, remember Massa started from the back last year and finished inthe points, so, who knows...

#85 GT Racing Online Magazine

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 05:37

Originally posted by paranoik0


Williams - as expected. Nico should get a nice sum of points tomorrow. Kazuki wasn't as quick as he seemed in testing, but considering how his Brazil race went last year, he might be one of those guys that is better in the races than in qualy.


considering his race was a disaster and he mowed down several mechanics, that is not really the signs I've seen rather he looks better for quali than races.

#86 noikeee

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 05:42

Originally posted by GT Racing Online Magazine


considering his race was a disaster and he mowed down several mechanics, that is not really the signs I've seen rather he looks better for quali than races.


What I meant is that in Interlagos, he was nowhere near Rosberg in qualifying, yet got some positions back in the race and even posted a quicker lap than his team-mate.

I wouldn't read too much into the running over mechanics thing. It was just a mistake that looked bad for the cameras.

#87 HSJ

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 05:43

Interesting to see Kubica's fuel level tomorrow. If he is not terribly light, he was the star of qualifying today. Interesting also to see if both Macs are on the same fuel load (at most 1 lap apart), or are they on slightly different strategies. Are the Beemers on different strategies? Last year they often split 2-stop and 3-stop strategies between their drivers, making one of them look a lot faster in quali than the other. What happened to Massa's second attempt in Q3? Kimi forced to play catch up again. Too bad we didn't see Ferrari's pace today, unless FM's was all there is. If that's so, then Macca is clearly faster.

Vettel was really good. I can still remember watching him in Formula BMW and thinking that he's a huge talent. I've been thinking that Nico is the most talented of the young drivers on the grid, but I'm not so sure about that now, it might be Vettel actually.

Nico did well, but I expected just a little bit more from the Nico+Williams combo after winter testing. Red Bull seem to have genuine pace, and that's great. Nakajima hasn't shown anything so far.

Renault are in trouble. Piquet, wtf?? The guy's useless. Alonso only gained in Q2 due to Webber and Kimi being out, other than that he didn't gain any places after Q1. Pfft.

Toyota seem promising. Earlier this weekend it seemed like Trulli was talking them up a bit too much, but now they seem quite competitive.

Honda better than expected, but not really a surprise anymore after watching free practice. But I'm glad they're not as bad as they seemed for much of winter testing.

#88 shonguiz

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 05:43

Originally posted by i.am.cloned
no. q2 is there to decide who will fight for pole in q3.


What a scoop :eek: :lol: We all know that Q2 is the best indicator of the real One lap Pace. Listen i am not saying BMW is on par with the big two, i know this is not the case, but still they are not where they are just because they are supposedly ultra lightly fueled.

#89 molive

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 05:48

Originally posted by HSJ
Renault are in trouble. Piquet, wtf?? The guy's useless.


Nelson Piquet (the father) also started his first F1 race from 21th place (back in 1978!).

So, cut the kid some slack. ;)

#90 HSJ

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 05:50

About Heikki. Kamix posted in the F2008 thread:

Originally posted by kamix


HK is a self proclaimed second driver ...


The really strange thing is how much Heikki has talked like a #2. Not going for pole, and he even bet on LH to be WDC. Why not say I'm going for pole (no shame if you don't make it) and fight for WDC? Last winter I started wonder if McL still have equal policy, because Whitmarsh and that one big Merc boss whose name I always forget (Zetsche or something?) talked of Hamilton like he was the appointed #1. And now in the post-quali press conference Heikki really talked and looked like a #2. Such a shame.

#91 former champ

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 05:52

Originally posted by shonguiz
And why wouldn't they ?? Q2 is here to pull out the maximum of your car.


No its not. It's simply enough to bank a lap which puts you in the top ten. Which for McLaren and Ferrari, is hardly difficult barring disasters.

It's not an indication of ultimate one lap pace at all.

#92 former champ

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 05:55

Originally posted by HSJ
Too bad we didn't see Ferrari's pace today, unless FM's was all there is.


FM aborted his final flying lap (before that he was just shy of Hamilton's fastest time) and we don't know his fuel load yet so I'd say Ferrari have plenty of speed and will be stronger in race pace. Could be good for Raikkonen too, if he can avoid trouble he could feasibly work his way well into the points and limit the damage.

#93 Ricardo F1

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 05:56

Originally posted by HSJ

Wow, not a comment about Hamilton - I'm truly stunned. :rolleyes:

Weird Massa not even trying for pole. Ferrari aint that stupid - fuel is at play. Kimi - bitterly disappointing. Hamilton - awesome lap.

#94 Ricardo F1

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 05:58

Originally posted by HSJ
[B] Not going for pole, and he even bet on LH to be WDC. /B]

How about he just WASN'T AS QUICK?????

#95 Cenotaph

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 06:02

I think Heikki is trying to get the pressure off him, i don't think of him as the kind of guy that does the confident "I will win" speech, he's more the kind of guy that likes to keep a low profile. I think if he has the chance he will fight for the victory for sure.

#96 HSJ

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 06:06

According to this Finnish article, there's a 90-second program that the ECU executes beginning from the start of the race, I guess to eliminate LC software from being used or something like that. Only after those 90 seconds do the teams' own software kick in. JJ Lehto thinks this will make the first lap difficult, because it will affect the handling of the car. Now, is McLaren's software more or less identical with the ECU? If so, they will have a huge advantage on the first lap of every race... Well I hope I'm wrong, but this just doesn't sound right at all.

#97 CWeil

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 06:11

Originally posted by HSJ
About Heikki. Kamix posted in the F2008 thread:



The really strange thing is how much Heikki has talked like a #2. Not going for pole, and he even bet on LH to be WDC. Why not say I'm going for pole (no shame if you don't make it) and fight for WDC?


Because the question was "Who would you bet on to win the championship, besides yourself?". He couldn't answer "me". Based on context and his initial answer of "no comment" it would seem he thinks it's more likely to be Kimi than Lewis, but when questioned the 2nd time said his teammate.

You have to know the question for saying that he's playing #2 based on not nominating himself as to-be-WDC.

#98 Galko877

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 06:11

Originally posted by HSJ
According to this Finnish article, there's a 90-second program that the ECU executes beginning from the start of the race, I guess to eliminate LC software from being used or something like that. Only after those 90 seconds do the teams' own software kick in. JJ Lehto thinks this will make the first lap difficult, because it will affect the handling of the car. Now, is McLaren's software more or less identical with the ECU? If so, they will have a huge advantage on the first lap of every race... Well I hope I'm wrong, but this just doesn't sound right at all.


Well, Heidfeld said last week that to him McLaren seem to be in a huge advantage at the starts (based on their practices in tests).

#99 Durant

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 06:23

Originally posted by HSJ
According to this Finnish article, there's a 90-second program that the ECU executes beginning from the start of the race, I guess to eliminate LC software from being used or something like that. Only after those 90 seconds do the teams' own software kick in. JJ Lehto thinks this will make the first lap difficult, because it will affect the handling of the car. Now, is McLaren's software more or less identical with the ECU? If so, they will have a huge advantage on the first lap of every race... Well I hope I'm wrong, but this just doesn't sound right at all.


You are wrong usual. What happens is that whatever mode you set it to at the start your stuck with it for 90 seconds, so this will stop teams from using a special LC mode. If you dont play any LC tricks then the system works as normal. They talked about this today during out tv coverage.

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#100 Peter Perfect

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 06:24

Originally posted by HSJ
According to this Finnish article, there's a 90-second program that the ECU executes beginning from the start of the race, I guess to eliminate LC software from being used or something like that. Only after those 90 seconds do the teams' own software kick in. JJ Lehto thinks this will make the first lap difficult, because it will affect the handling of the car. Now, is McLaren's software more or less identical with the ECU? If so, they will have a huge advantage on the first lap of every race... Well I hope I'm wrong, but this just doesn't sound right at all.


90 seconds?! That seems far too long if it's from the start of the race. Could it be triggered earlier? Aren't there safety implications? And I'm sure there were comments from winter testing that Ferrari's starts were just as impressive.

Sounds a bit strange to me.