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Get Piquet Jnr out of F1 now. People like him are what is wrong with F1


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#1 SuperFastKimi

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 11:50

Drivers with name power and/or huge sponsorship backing with average talent. I don't care if it's his debut; it takes real lack of talent to manage to qualify a Renault in second to last place behind a super Aguri. I bet there are people on this board with Karting and racing backgrounds who could have done a much better job than Piquet. Give Romain Grosjean the seat.

Nakajima, on the other hand, did a solid job. He was only 4 tenths slower than the highly rated Rosberg.

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#2 Domination

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 12:11

I don't understand how people are saying "give him more time, he'll improve". Of course everyone improves over time. It's the baseline that's important. Even Heikki wasn't that slow in the Renault when he started. And it's not like Piquet is new to the car or the team. He's been their test driver for the last year for god's sake. Being rookie slow is one thing, not being faster than Sato in a Super Aguri is another. Renault will have to look at replacing him if they want to score solid constructors points.

#3 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 12:35

If it's his best qualifying result of the entire season, yes it will be a problem. If it's his worst, it won't look so bad. Kimi's starting 15th too.

#4 Chiara

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 12:44

Originally posted by Domination
I don't understand how people are saying "give him more time, he'll improve". Of course everyone improves over time. It's the baseline that's important. Even Heikki wasn't that slow in the Renault when he started. And it's not like Piquet is new to the car or the team. He's been their test driver for the last year for god's sake. Being rookie slow is one thing, not being faster than Sato in a Super Aguri is another. Renault will have to look at replacing him if they want to score solid constructors points.


I suggest perhaps popping onto the Autosport main page and actually reading Nelson Piquet Jnr's comments.

Being a test driver is a whole different ball game to being a race driver. A test driver simply gets in the car set-up for him by the team and goes out to put in as many fast consistent laps as possible with regards to development on the car. Look at Alex Wurz a very highly rated test driver, but when he drove for Williams last year he really struggled at times despite being hugely talented and intelligent.

A race driver has to learn how to set up his car, read telemetry, and deal with all the nuances of a fast changing track over the course of a weekend - so for someone who is new to the game it could be relatively easily just to get things a bit wrong at the start. It's a learning curve. You can't expect him to just get in the car and thrash the pants off everyone else from the get go.

#5 D82

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 12:46

Don't judge that fast. People can improve. Remember how Jenson Button was far from perfect with only outqualifying Mazzacane in his first race in 2000:
1	Mika Häkkinen		McLaren/Mercedes	1'30.556	

2	David Coulthard		McLaren/Mercedes	1'30.910	0.354

3	Michael Schumacher	Ferrari			1'31.075	0.519

4	Rubens Barrichello	Ferrari			1'31.102	0.546

5	Heinz-Harald Frentzen	Jordan/Mugen-Honda	1'31.359	0.803

6	Jarno Trulli		Jordan/Mugen-Honda	1'31.504	0.948

7	Eddie Irvine		Jaguar/Cosworth		1'31.514	0.958

8	Jacques Villeneuve	BAR/Honda		1'31.968	1.412

9	Giancarlo Fisichella	Benetton/Playlife	1'31.992	1.436

10	Mika Salo		Sauber/Petronas		1'32.018	1.462

11	Ralf Schumacher		Williams/BMW		1'32.220	1.664

12	Pedro de la Rosa	Arrows/Supertec		1'32.323	1.767

13	Jos Verstappen		Arrows/Supertec		1'32.477	1.921

14	Alexander Wurz		Benetton/Playlife	1'32.775	2.219

15	Nick Heidfeld		Prost/Peugeot		1'33.024	2.468

16	Ricardo Zonta		BAR/Honda		1'33.117	2.561

17	Jean Alesi		Prost/Peugeot		1'33.197	2.641

18	Marc Gené		Minardi/Fondmetal	1'33.261	2.705

19	Pedro Diniz		Sauber/Petronas		1'33.378	2.822

20	Johnny Herbert		Jaguar/Cosworth		1'33.638	3.082

[b]21	Jenson Button		Williams/BMW		1'33.828	3.272[/b]

22	Gaston Mazzacane	Minardi/Fondmetal	1'34.705	4.149


#6 rolf123

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 12:49

Give the guy a break, it's his first race. I know he hasn't impressed in testing either but still I can't believe how much people are reading into all the drivers based on a few laps of practice and quali. I know we're hungry for F1 action but this is ridiculous!

#7 Fatgadget

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 12:57

He reminds me of Alex Yoong and that Japanese guy-whose name escapes me- who was forever executing pirouette's :lol:

#8 glorius&victorius

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 12:59

He's only in that car because of his name.

In pre-season testing he really didn't impress at all. Actually he never impressed in an F1 car, eversince his first test with Williams.

So on the basis of the testing performance he wouldn't have made it if his name wasn't Piquet.

You could argue the same for Nakajima, but he's had a fairly good debut in Brazil and he did fairly well in testing.

Anyway, that's my opinion now, lets hope he gets it together and proves me wrong.

#9 Nobody

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 13:02

Originally posted by D82
Don't judge that fast. People can improve. Remember how Jenson Button was far from perfect with only outqualifying Mazzacane in his first race in 2000:

1	Mika Häkkinen		McLaren/Mercedes	1'30.556	

2	David Coulthard		McLaren/Mercedes	1'30.910	0.354

3	Michael Schumacher	Ferrari			1'31.075	0.519

4	Rubens Barrichello	Ferrari			1'31.102	0.546

5	Heinz-Harald Frentzen	Jordan/Mugen-Honda	1'31.359	0.803

6	Jarno Trulli		Jordan/Mugen-Honda	1'31.504	0.948

7	Eddie Irvine		Jaguar/Cosworth		1'31.514	0.958

8	Jacques Villeneuve	BAR/Honda		1'31.968	1.412

9	Giancarlo Fisichella	Benetton/Playlife	1'31.992	1.436

10	Mika Salo		Sauber/Petronas		1'32.018	1.462

11	Ralf Schumacher		Williams/BMW		1'32.220	1.664

12	Pedro de la Rosa	Arrows/Supertec		1'32.323	1.767

13	Jos Verstappen		Arrows/Supertec		1'32.477	1.921

14	Alexander Wurz		Benetton/Playlife	1'32.775	2.219

15	Nick Heidfeld		Prost/Peugeot		1'33.024	2.468

16	Ricardo Zonta		BAR/Honda		1'33.117	2.561

17	Jean Alesi		Prost/Peugeot		1'33.197	2.641

18	Marc Gené		Minardi/Fondmetal	1'33.261	2.705

19	Pedro Diniz		Sauber/Petronas		1'33.378	2.822

20	Johnny Herbert		Jaguar/Cosworth		1'33.638	3.082

[b]21	Jenson Button		Williams/BMW		1'33.828	3.272[/b]

22	Gaston Mazzacane	Minardi/Fondmetal	1'34.705	4.149


What a sick grid ! :up:

#10 SeanValen

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 13:02

Originally posted by rolf123
Give the guy a break, it's his first race. I know he hasn't impressed in testing either but still I can't believe how much people are reading into all the drivers based on a few laps of practice and quali. I know we're hungry for F1 action but this is ridiculous!

:up:



Hamilton was a better rookie performance sure, but not everyone learns at the same pace.


Albert Park is quite a tricky first GP, there is a specific line you must follow, experience is a plus here.

Montoya was even worser in 2001 compared to Ralf here.

Piquet like many before him, deserves a season shot, I'll offer my thoughts mid season to his progress then, until then pizza and wine/and patience.
:smoking: :up: :up: :up:

#11 Andy35

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 13:05

The poor guy has not even done one race yet :(

Unless a driver is dangerous they should be allowed a fair crack of the whip. That applies to any job.

Regards

Andy

#12 saudoso

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 13:10

Originally posted by SuperFastKimi
Drivers with name power and/or huge sponsorship backing with average talent. I don't care if it's his debut; it takes real lack of talent to manage to qualify a Renault in second to last place behind a super Aguri. I bet there are people on this board with Karting and racing backgrounds who could have done a much better job than Piquet. Give Romain Grosjean the seat.

Nakajima, on the other hand, did a solid job. He was only 4 tenths slower than the highly rated Rosberg.


You are mad because your sweet heart got stuffed????

#13 race addicted

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 13:15

Way to early to shoot him down, but today was really crap. A sorry performance.

I've said I'll be surprised if he can (with a bit more time) get to within three tenths plus of Alonso's race-pace, but he'll be nowhere near that tomorrow, that's for sure.

#14 Timstr11

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 13:23

Give the guy a break.

Remember Renault went along with Alonso's demand to concentrate their efforts on him.

#15 i.am.cloned

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 13:30

Piquet is a disappointment so far
But he used to look mich better in other series and in previous year tests. May be this year car doesn't suit him or the pressure of f1 dream come true got to him. I think he still may get better in the course of the season.

#16 F1 Tor.

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 13:40

Thank god the season is underway. There's nowhere to hide now and, unfortunately, Piquet got a good "welcome to the bigs" kick in the teeth. Better put those work boots on Nelson and avoid eye contact with Flavio at all costs. :wave:

#17 potmotr

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 13:52

Originally posted by SuperFastKimi
Drivers with name power and/or huge sponsorship backing with average talent.


I think this thread is a touch hysterical. Piquet has earned his spot on the grid. He competed with Hamilton for the 2006 GP2 title and is a former winner of the British Formula 3 championship. Nelsinho's credentials are at least as strong as Heikki's. Poor first race weekend thus far, but it's only race one. Time for a cup of tea and a lie down eh?

#18 MichaelPM

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 13:56

Originally posted by Timstr11
Give the guy a break.

Remember Renault went along with Alonso's demand to concentrate their efforts on him.


Yea, I heard Renault are going to do away with a second car all together since they will never let Piquet score any points :rolleyes:

#19 Clatter

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 14:02

Originally posted by D82
Don't judge that fast. People can improve. Remember how Jenson Button was far from perfect with only outqualifying Mazzacane in his first race in 2000:



Didnt JB have a gearbox problem?

I have a better idea, lets ban people like SuperFastKimi, they are what is wrong with the BB these days. Only join to try and start flamefests.

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#20 potmotr

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 14:17

Originally posted by Clatter


I have a better idea, lets ban people like SuperFastKimi, they are what is wrong with the BB these days. Only join to try and start flamefests.


Agreed. "People like him are what is wrong" (sic) with BB.

#21 noikeee

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 14:18

He was totally crap today, but calm down and give him a couple more chances.

I'm still having an hard time to believe that a guy who won british F3, was a regular race winner in A1GP, and seemed almost as good as Hamilton in GP2, is now massively slow in F1. Wtf?!

I think something's missing somewhere, I just have no idea what it is.

#22 MichaelPM

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 14:24

He was slowed by Sutil's stationary car when he was on his final flyer.

#23 pRy

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 14:32

Originally posted by D82
Don't judge that fast. People can improve. Remember how Jenson Button was far from perfect with only outqualifying Mazzacane in his first race in 2000:


I recommend you read the couple of paragraphs on Buttons problems during that day here:

http://atlasf1.autos...00/mar/2118.htm

Why you felt this session in particular proved anything I've no clue. I've no clue why this thread even exists. It's pointless.

#24 molive

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 14:45

Yep, Jr didnt have a great car under him, Albert Park is not an easy track to learn, and obviously he felt the pressure of having Alonso up there posting good laps, and, to add insult to injury, NP had traffic when he was looking set to improve his time. :

Anyway, to the thread opener, I can only remind that the 2 time WDC Nelson Piquet also qualified 21th in his first F1 race....so, give Nelsinho some time and he will learn. The kid definetely got some help to get to F1 because of his name, but he certainly deserved it based on his driving GP2 and F3.

#25 F1 Tor.

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 15:20

Originally posted by molive
Yep, Jr didnt have a great car under him, Albert Park is not an easy track to learn, and obviously he felt the pressure of having Alonso up there posting good laps, and, to add insult to injury, NP had traffic when he was looking set to improve his time. :

Anyway, to the thread opener, I can only remind that the 2 time WDC Nelson Piquet also qualified 21th in his first F1 race....so, give Nelsinho some time and he will learn. The kid definetely got some help to get to F1 because of his name, but he certainly deserved it based on his driving GP2 and F3.



Pssst..that's 3 -time champion. A typo I'm sure :wave:

#26 F575 GTC

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 15:23

Wow, one qualifying session into the season and the idiots start calling for drivers to be given the push. :down:

#27 Juan Kerr

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 15:27

Originally posted by rolf123
Give the guy a break, it's his first race. I know he hasn't impressed in testing either but still I can't believe how much people are reading into all the drivers based on a few laps of practice and quali. I know we're hungry for F1 action but this is ridiculous!

First race ? This guy has been driving F1 cars for years he should be better than that, I'm not giving him time to improve, I've decided that after 22 years of watching F1 extremely closely I think I know a good driver when I see one and he aint it. I might give him more chance in the race but not setting times in qualifying and practice he should be well prepared for that by now.

#28 F1 Tor.

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 15:33

Originally posted by Juan Kerr
First race ? This guy has been driving F1 cars for years he should be better than that, I'm not giving him time to improve, I've decided that after 22 years of watching F1 extremely closely I think I know a good driver when I see one and he aint it. I might give him more chance in the race but not setting times in qualifying and practice he should be well prepared for that by now.


I can understand peoples' frustration over him not performing well yesterday but I think it's a bit premature. I mean Heikki sucked the joint out his first quali with Renault and rebounded nicely and now he's driving a top car. One weekend does not make a career. Okay, if this were the third or fourth race I'd be terribly worried but let's give the kid a chance. :wave:

#29 mclarensmps

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 15:33

Originally posted by Nobody


What a sick grid ! :up:


QFT :)

#30 Ghostrider

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 15:51

Fortunately team owners have more patience and intelligence then some of the AtlasF1 posters.

#31 VoidNT

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 15:57

http://www.grandprix...riatore1-lg.jpg[/IMG]

I agree with Flavio :stoned:

#32 molive

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 16:00

Originally posted by F1 Tor.



Pssst..that's 3 -time champion. A typo I'm sure :wave:


Of course, and I watched all 3 of them. :)

#33 Peter Perfect

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 16:06

Disappointing? Yes.

Representative? No.

He hasn't even raced yet! How can he be judged on one qualifying?! :confused:

#34 primer

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 16:11

Originally posted by F575 GTC
Wow, one qualifying session into the season and the idiots start calling for drivers to be given the push.


Yes, as bad as NPJr was today, I'd still give him more races. If by mid-season he doesn't improve significantly, then a quick replacement would have to be found.
The good thing(?) for Renault is they do not have a WCC challenging car, they are mid-field, hence can afford to lose some points while trying out NPJ, and the loss won't be so big.

#35 bomber

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 16:24

i see what you mean with the power names etc, but give him another couple of races before you behead him,you cant compare him to lewis, lewis is a once in an era driver, like senna, prost, he will win many a championship.

#36 Zarathustra

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 16:26

Wasn't Piquet going a lot faster on his lap before he slowed down for the yellow flags? If so he should be praised for taking it seriously, unlike Jarno Trulli, Nico Rosberg, Giancarlo Fisichella and Jenson Button.

#37 AyePirate

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 16:34

test sample too small for valid conclusion

#38 Andrew Ford &F1

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 16:34

Nelson Piquet Jr deserves a drive in F1, even though his run was a disappointment. But it's only qualy, for God's sake. I'm sure he'll do a better job tomorrow. And, by the way, the guy had bad luck. I'll start staing my opinion about the Brazilian 2 or 3 races later. Now it's too early to judge.

#39 Devero

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 16:34

And this guy had been beaten to title in equal cars by Ham only in the last race of the GP2 season :rotfl: :lol:

And by the way how exactly Nelson should have driven that R28 alongside Alonso to satisfy or make you happy guys :kiss:

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#40 Domination

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 16:39

Originally posted by Devero

And by the way how exactly Nelson should have driven that R28 alongside Alonso to satisfy or make you happy guys :kiss:


He should have at least out qualified Sato in a Super Aguri.

#41 Devero

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 16:42

Originally posted by Domination


He should have at least out qualified Sato in a Super Aguri.


He would have done that. He simply was out of time to make his fast lap in time because of the yellow flag.

#42 Menace

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 16:42

I will give him some time, but we should remember he has already been a test driver for Renault during last year.

I don't think anyone expected him to beat Alonso, but he really cant afford to be THAT much slower or he will not last long.

#43 Ghostrider

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 16:44

Originally posted by AyePirate
test sample too small for valid conclusion


:) :up:

#44 Perigee

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 16:52

I'll add my voice to the general 'one Qualifying session is not a sufficient sample' argument.

#45 HUY

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 16:59

If it was just one qualifying session then yes, the sample would be too small to tell. But Piquet has been extremely slow all through the testing sessions, and all 3 practice sessions at Melbourne. If you go back and compare his times with Alonso's you'll see he's consistenly lagging about a second behind.

#46 kodandaram

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 17:10

People underestimate how long it takes to get into the groove . Look at Alex Wurz - he was driving for Williams the whole year yet when he got into the car - he was totally blown away in qualifying.

#47 Devero

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 17:11

Originally posted by HUY
If it was just one qualifying session then yes, the sample would be too small to tell. But Piquet has been extremely slow all through the testing sessions, and all 3 practice sessions at Melbourne. If you go back and compare his times with Alonso's you'll see he's consistenly lagging about a second behind.


And what is an appropriate lagging for you, 0,6 sec? :D

Nelson will be fine in F1 as he was in GP2, A1GP, F3 and karting. That is clear the talent is there. He only needs a bit of time and besides we did not see his racing yet.

#48 PassWind

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 17:18

Originally posted by Chiara


I suggest perhaps popping onto the Autosport main page and actually reading Nelson Piquet Jnr's comments.

Being a test driver is a whole different ball game to being a race driver. A test driver simply gets in the car set-up for him by the team and goes out to put in as many fast consistent laps as possible with regards to development on the car. Look at Alex Wurz a very highly rated test driver, but when he drove for Williams last year he really struggled at times despite being hugely talented and intelligent.

A race driver has to learn how to set up his car, read telemetry, and deal with all the nuances of a fast changing track over the course of a weekend - so for someone who is new to the game it could be relatively easily just to get things a bit wrong at the start. It's a learning curve. You can't expect him to just get in the car and thrash the pants off everyone else from the get go.



Yes we can, this is not a chicken and egg argument, this guy was a RACE DRIVER first.

Testing is apart of elite motorsport, Nelson got his spot through Race Driving I presume, although his testing and now racing ability doesn't appear to be as good as he was talked up to be, though he did talk himself up a fair bit during this whole process.

I was actually suprised people didn't make more comment on his testing so far this year.

#49 PassWind

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 17:20

Originally posted by kodandaram
People underestimate how long it takes to get into the groove . Look at Alex Wurz - he was driving for Williams the whole year yet when he got into the car - he was totally blown away in qualifying.



Wurz had been measured several seasons ago, why Williams had him race is anyones guess though Money would be the obvious answer considering their current second driver choice..........

#50 kismet

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 17:26

We really do need to stop calling for drivers' heads after every fecking practise or qualifying session... One qualifying does not a career make or break, but having said that, I thought qualifying was supposed to be NP's forte?!? That's what people kept saying during the off-season; that he's very, very fast over a lap but maybe less so over a race distance.