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Get Piquet Jnr out of F1 now. People like him are what is wrong with F1


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#51 Suntrek

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 17:51

oh, another flame-bait thread. How come I'm not surprised. :

Piquet hasn't done much for himself so far I admit, but I prefer to wait a bit and see.

Right now his self-confidence is 0, (or below) but I hope he can pull himself out of it.

If he can't he's simply not fit to be a F1 driver, but until then - cut the guy some slack.

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#52 Atic Atac

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 17:58

Originally posted by Suntrek
oh, another flame-bait thread. How come I'm not surprised. :

Piquet hasn't done much for himself so far I admit, but I prefer to wait a bit and see.

Right now his self-confidence is 0, (or below) but I hope he can pull himself out of it.

If he can't he's simply not fit to be a F1 driver, but until then - cut the guy some slack.


and Flavio is not exactly "charming" when a driver is slow ;)

#53 Chiara

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 17:59

Originally posted by PassWind



Yes we can, this is not a chicken and egg argument, this guy was a RACE DRIVER first.

Testing is apart of elite motorsport, Nelson got his spot through Race Driving I presume, although his testing and now racing ability doesn't appear to be as good as he was talked up to be, though he did talk himself up a fair bit during this whole process.

I was actually suprised people didn't make more comment on his testing so far this year.


I think you need to ask yourself one thing, how many other drivers have come from being a great success in lower racing formulae and instantly stepped into an F1 car and done the business from day 1? not many I'll bet.

What I was trying to point out is that being an F1 test driver and being an F1 driver are two completely different ball games. I think there is a tendency for armchair experts to underestimate just how hard it can be to make that transition. Look at Heikki Kovaleinen he had a bit of a torrid time last year and recently admitted that he just wasn't well enough prepared when he initially stepped up to become an F1 driver.

With any skilled job it takes time to learn all the skills necessary to be a success, I don't think F1 is that different. Just my humble opinion. Maybe Nelson Piquet Jnr will be a revelation, maybe he won't I think really its too early to make that kind of judgement.

#54 Suntrek

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 18:00

Originally posted by Atic Atac


and Flavio is not exactly "charming" when a driver is slow ;)


Maybe not, but Fisi pace would do quite nicely, there's no need to go all the way down to SA or FI pace to prove the point... :lol:

#55 AyePirate

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 18:09

The Speed broadcast said that Nelson Sr. was not at the race. I was a little bit surprised.

#56 Atic Atac

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 18:12

Originally posted by Suntrek


Maybe not, but Fisi pace would do quite nicely, there's no need to go all the way down to SA or FI pace to prove the point... :lol:


LOL :lol:

#57 Cenotaph

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 18:23

So much for "a new driver with very little experience can come in to F1 and drive very quickly", i guess.

#58 BMW_F1

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 18:45

Originally posted by Cenotaph
So much for "a new driver with very little experience can come in to F1 and drive very quickly", i guess.



I don't think this year is the same as when TC was on. The car this year appears to be very tricky to drive even to the more experienced drivers. I like it.. Nakajima last year came in and on his first race posted one of the fastest laps.

#59 HSJ

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 18:50

In the quali thread I already called Piquet useless. I take it back. He's not useless, obviously. He ran LH extremely close in GP2 in 2006, despite being in a slightly worse team/car. What we're really seeing is the difference between what McLaren are giving LH and Renault are giving NP.

Poor quali from Piquet though, no doubt. But let's see the whole season before condemning him for good.

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#60 speedmaster

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 18:52

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
If it's his best qualifying result of the entire season, yes it will be a problem. If it's his worst, it won't look so bad. Kimi's starting 15th too.


Ross as always the balanced one here. :up:

It is very hard to judge someone for their first weekend. Renault car is also not that good and we should wait a little before throwing the stones. If he isn't good he wouldnt be there

#61 Fatgadget

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 18:56

Originally posted by molive
Yep, Jr didnt have a great car under him, Albert Park is not an easy track to learn, and obviously he felt the pressure of having Alonso up there posting good laps, and, to add insult to injury, NP had traffic when he was looking set to improve his time. :

Anyway, to the thread opener, I can only remind that the 2 time WDC Nelson Piquet also qualified 21th in his first F1 race....so, give Nelsinho some time and he will learn. The kid definetely got some help to get to F1 because of his name, but he certainly deserved it based on his driving GP2 and F3.


That was then.This is now. I am sorry but you are not given any slack whatsover nowadays.

Lewis Hamilton set the rookie benchmark last year I am afraid.

#62 BMW_F1

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 19:00

Originally posted by HSJ
In the quali thread I already called Piquet useless. I take it back. He's not useless, obviously. He ran LH extremely close in GP2 in 2006, despite being in a slightly worse team/car. What we're really seeing is the difference between what McLaren are giving LH and Renault are giving NP.

Poor quali from Piquet though, no doubt. But let's see the whole season before condemning him for good.


absolutely.. :up:

#63 Domination

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 19:10

Originally posted by HSJ
In the quali thread I already called Piquet useless. I take it back. He's not useless, obviously. He ran LH extremely close in GP2 in 2006, despite being in a slightly worse team/car. What we're really seeing is the difference between what McLaren are giving LH and Renault are giving NP.


No, what we're seeing is the difference between what Lewis is doing with his car relative to his team mate and what Piquet is doing relative to his teammate. If he continues to lag behind Super Aguri then you can kiss his F1 career good bye. Unless his dad buys him a place.

#64 AyePirate

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 19:19

Originally posted by HSJ
What we're really seeing is the difference between what McLaren are giving LH and Renault are giving NP.


someone from Brazil needs to ask the FIA to place observers in the Renault pit to ensure equal treatment for Nelson II.
;)

#65 britishtrident

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 19:47

"People like him " when ever I read that I think the writer has a chip on his shoulder.

Early days -- to borrow from the immortal Frank Gardener "when the chequered flag drops the bull sh-- stops".
Not every driver will make the impact LH or NP senior made in their first F1 race, some take time to settle in.

Like many other before him NP junior will either make it or not, it will be all to to with skill talent opportunity, equipment and luck --- nothing to with with being "people like him"

Even if he has not enough talent and relies on a rent a drive, rent a drives have been part of F1 for as long as I can recall (which is many decades) and haven't ruined f1 yet.

Something writtem by Arthur Ransome 80 odd years ago "If not duffer won't drown, if duffer best drowned" sums it all up

#66 britishtrident

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 19:50

Originally posted by AyePirate


someone from Brazil needs to ask the FIA to place observers in the Renault pit to ensure equal treatment for Nelson II.
;)


They need to send check if he is wearing Ferrari underpants.

#67 selespeed

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 19:50

Originally posted by Zarathustra
Wasn't Piquet going a lot faster on his lap before he slowed down for the yellow flags? If so he should be praised for taking it seriously, unlike Jarno Trulli, Nico Rosberg, Giancarlo Fisichella and Jenson Button.



was he??
anybody got the info?

#68 Youichi

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 20:41

Originally posted by selespeed



was he??
anybody got the info?


His best time in sector 1, was 28.818 which was the 18th fastest time.

Source :- http://www.fia.com/r...or_Times_08.pdf

Sutil spun at turn 12, according to Hack in the live tread, which is in secor 3.


I was watching the qualy rerun at my nieces birthday party, and when James Allen said Piquet failed to qualify, my sister said, " that is Jr isn't it ?" :rotfl:

For the record, I think he'll do fine after a few races.



#69 noikeee

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 20:53

Originally posted by HUY
If it was just one qualifying session then yes, the sample would be too small to tell. But Piquet has been extremely slow all through the testing sessions, and all 3 practice sessions at Melbourne. If you go back and compare his times with Alonso's you'll see he's consistenly lagging about a second behind.


Yes, that is the worrying thing, there is a bit of a pattern already.

There's something wrong though, he has shown before he has the potential to do much, much better.

#70 molive

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 21:00

Regarding LHxNP comparisons, lets not forget that Lewis spent countless hours practicing in McLaren's special simulator, hence he knew Albert Park very well before goint there.

AFAIK, Nelsinho didnt have this (little as it may be) advantage.

#71 molive

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 21:03

Originally posted by paranoik0
Yes, that is the worrying thing, there is a bit of a pattern already.


I could be wrong, but wasnt Nelsinho faster (marginally) than Alonso in their last testing session together?

#72 niallmckiernan

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 21:16

Originally posted by D82
Don't judge that fast. People can improve. Remember how Jenson Button was far from perfect with only outqualifying Mazzacane in his first race in 2000:

1	Mika Häkkinen		McLaren/Mercedes	1'30.556	

2	David Coulthard		McLaren/Mercedes	1'30.910	0.354

3	Michael Schumacher	Ferrari			1'31.075	0.519

4	Rubens Barrichello	Ferrari			1'31.102	0.546

5	Heinz-Harald Frentzen	Jordan/Mugen-Honda	1'31.359	0.803

6	Jarno Trulli		Jordan/Mugen-Honda	1'31.504	0.948

7	Eddie Irvine		Jaguar/Cosworth		1'31.514	0.958

8	Jacques Villeneuve	BAR/Honda		1'31.968	1.412

9	Giancarlo Fisichella	Benetton/Playlife	1'31.992	1.436

10	Mika Salo		Sauber/Petronas		1'32.018	1.462

11	Ralf Schumacher		Williams/BMW		1'32.220	1.664

12	Pedro de la Rosa	Arrows/Supertec		1'32.323	1.767

13	Jos Verstappen		Arrows/Supertec		1'32.477	1.921

14	Alexander Wurz		Benetton/Playlife	1'32.775	2.219

15	Nick Heidfeld		Prost/Peugeot		1'33.024	2.468

16	Ricardo Zonta		BAR/Honda		1'33.117	2.561

17	Jean Alesi		Prost/Peugeot		1'33.197	2.641

18	Marc Gené		Minardi/Fondmetal	1'33.261	2.705

19	Pedro Diniz		Sauber/Petronas		1'33.378	2.822

20	Johnny Herbert		Jaguar/Cosworth		1'33.638	3.082

[b]21	Jenson Button		Williams/BMW		1'33.828	3.272[/b]

22	Gaston Mazzacane	Minardi/Fondmetal	1'34.705	4.149


what a great quote!! his teammate in 11th alswell!! :up:

#73 niallmckiernan

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 21:20

Originally posted by molive


I could be wrong, but wasnt Nelsinho faster (marginally) than Alonso in their last testing session together?


yes he was. by 0.011secs

the day before that fernando was 0.5secs ahead - this was the case in the majority of testing

#74 512 TR

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 21:23

Alx Danielsson will replace Piquet Jr. around the Canadian GP.

#75 race addicted

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 21:25

Never. Forget that.

#76 niallmckiernan

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 21:27

Originally posted by 512 TR
Alx Danielsson will replace Piquet Jr. around the Canadian GP.


source?

#77 512 TR

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 21:29

Originally posted by niallmckiernan


source?


It's just a prediction. No source.

#78 saudoso

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 21:31

My only concern today is that NP stays clear of KR. There is a chance that a line with FA,KR&NP forms some time during the race. RB is much likelly to star really heavy. Trying to prove his point over KR would be a disaster.

#79 niallmckiernan

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 21:32

Originally posted by 512 TR


It's just a prediction. No source.


exactly. its a stupid prediction

people said kovalinen would be replaced later in the year after his poor performance in aus last year.....

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#80 512 TR

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 21:35

Originally posted by niallmckiernan


exactly. its a stupid prediction

people said kovalinen would be replaced later in the year after his poor performance in aus last year.....


I never said that. Infact, I don't think I even mentioned Heikki's name here last year.

BTW...why isn't his father in Melbourne to watch him? I'm just saying...

#81 GustavoB

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 21:39

The weekend for Piquet was:
He spun in the first practice with a broked gearbox. He lost the last 20 minutes.
Because of the geabox problem he ran only 25 minutes in the second session.
Did only a few laps in the third practice. The first mistake in my point of view they should have allowed him more track time.
But the biggest mistake was stay for soooooooo long in the pit for the last timmed lap. I can't understand why Renault didn't do same as Toro with Bourdais. It was stupid, the guy is a rookie and all the weekend he wasn't fast. He should have done at least 3 timed laps in the 20 minutes. They wait until the last minute to do the second run:.....yellow flags, 21th place, behind a Super Aguri.
For a brazilian like me (a Piquet Snr. fan) it was very disapointing but I think he will be in a much better shape in the next races. Like most of the people here I think it's too early to judge him. I'm just hoping that he will have a better race. :|

#82 niallmckiernan

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 21:42

Originally posted by 512 TR


I never said that. Infact, I don't think I even mentioned Heikki's name here last year.

BTW...why isn't his father in Melbourne to watch him? I'm just saying...


and i never said YOU said that. i said "PEOPLE said...."

his father's not there?........................so! :|

#83 512 TR

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 21:51

Originally posted by niallmckiernan


and i never said YOU said that. i said "PEOPLE said...."

his father's not there?........................so! :|


Well, if my son would be on the verge of his first F1 race, I would be there no matter the cost. Looks like a business trip is more important for Nelson Sr.

#84 Mauseri

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 22:22

I dont understand this spouting 'pull him out of F1'. If he isnt up to it, he will not achieve anything and will be out before long. But i't highly premature to say anything after the first qualifying session. Do you remember how poorly JPM qualified on his first attempt? Give the guy a break, it's his first qualifying and he wasnt propably handling himself optimally yet.

#85 Mauseri

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 22:23

I dont understand this spouting 'pull him out of F1'. If he isnt up to it, he will not achieve anything and will be out before long. But it's highly premature to say anything after the first qualifying session. Do you remember how poorly JPM qualified on his first attempt? Give the guy a break, it's his first qualifying and he wasnt propably handling himself optimally yet.

#86 noikeee

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 22:37

Originally posted by 512 TR
Alx Danielsson will replace Piquet Jr. around the Canadian GP.


:rotfl:

I think Grosjean, Hanley, Di Grassi and even Parente are all ahead in the queue in the case they need a driver, and that's counting only drivers linked to Renault with no F1 experience. I'm sorry that Danielsson's career stalled as he deserved more after a WSR championship, but you have to accept that the guy has about 0 chance of reaching F1 now.

#87 512 TR

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 22:39

Originally posted by paranoik0


:rotfl:

I think Grosjean, Hanley, Di Grassi and even Parente are all ahead in the queue in the case they need a driver, and that's counting only drivers linked to Renault with no F1 experience. I'm sorry that Danielsson's career stalled as he deserved more after a WSR championship, but you have to accept that the guy has about 0 chance of reaching F1 now.


Time will tell, won't it? Let's see who's rolling on the floor in a couple months. Flavio is a crook, but he's no fool.

#88 molive

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 22:47

Originally posted by 512 TR


Well, if my son would be on the verge of his first F1 race, I would be there no matter the cost. Looks like a business trip is more important for Nelson Sr.


I dunno why Nelson is not in Australia, but I doubt he had plans to become a Mr. Hamilton.

Nelsinho could use some fatherly advice, though. :/

#89 noikeee

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 22:48

Originally posted by 512 TR


Time will tell, won't it? Let's see who's rolling on the floor in a couple months. Flavio is a crook, but he's no fool.


I think you're just joking, but I admire your loyalty to Danielsson. :D Now that's a supporter.

Like Renault F1 would hire a 26 years old guy stuck in the midfield of Formula Euroseries 3000, ahead of a guy who just made an Hamilton-esque debut in GP2 (Grosjean). Let's put it this way: he has about the same chances as Yamamoto.

#90 512 TR

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 23:02

Originally posted by paranoik0


I think you're just joking, but I admire your loyalty to Danielsson. :D Now that's a supporter.

Like Renault F1 would hire a 26 years old guy stuck in the midfield of Formula Euroseries 3000, ahead of a guy who just made an Hamilton-esque debut in GP2 (Grosjean). Let's put it this way: he has about the same chances as Yamamoto.


There has always been a connection between Renault and Red Bull/Toro Rosso. Had it not been for Bourdais, Alx would be in that seat. A lot of managers are connected with these three teams. Let's just watch. One thing is for sure, Piquet Jr. will be out soon.

#91 V8 Fireworks

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 23:16

Originally posted by 512 TR
Alx Danielsson will replace Piquet Jr. around the Canadian GP.


Who!?

Surely it should be Liuzzi or another ex-Champcar driver like Glock or Bourdais!

#92 512 TR

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 23:18

Originally posted by V8 Fireworks


Who!?

Surely it should be Liuzzi or another ex-Champcar driver like Glock or Bourdais!


Glock? No way! Bourdais, maybe. But only if he really clicks from the get go. Liuzzi is gone!

#93 AndreasF1

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 23:43

What a stupid thread... there are many variables to be sucessful in F1. Who ever thinks that a conclusion about a driver can be made after 3 sessions in an F1 car has no clue about F1 and shouldn't even be posting on this forum. Give him at least 5 races to get up to speed. Remember even Senna's perfomance wasn't anything to rave home about during his first GP. Heck he didn't even qualify in his 3rd race!!!!

#94 512 TR

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 23:44

Originally posted by AndreasF1
What a stupid thread... there are many variables to be sucessful in F1. Who ever thinks that a conclusion about a driver can be made after 3 sessions in an F1 car has no clue about F1 and shouldn't even be posting on this forum. Give him at least 5 races to get up to speed. Remember even Senna's perfomance wasn't anything to rave home about during his first GP. Heck he didn't even qualify in his 3rd race!!!!


I'll actually give him 6 races. :)

#95 AndreasF1

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Posted 15 March 2008 - 23:51

512 TR wrote:

I'll actually give him 6 races.




let's not go overboard :lol:

#96 former champ

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 00:22

Stupid thread. Give the kid a chance. If he's still this slow 6 races into the season, then call for him to be dropped.

#97 pacwest

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 00:51

Originally posted by SuperFastKimi
Drivers with name power and/or huge sponsorship backing with average talent. I don't care if it's his debut; it takes real lack of talent to manage to qualify a Renault in second to last place behind a super Aguri. I bet there are people on this board with Karting and racing backgrounds who could have done a much better job than Piquet. Give Romain Grosjean the seat.

Nakajima, on the other hand, did a solid job. He was only 4 tenths slower than the highly rated Rosberg.


Tell me what place his father qualified on his F1 debut....

#98 Domination

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 00:52

Originally posted by pacwest


Tell me what place his father qualified on his F1 debut....


the place isn't the problem here. it's the place relative to the team mate that is. i wanna see how his father compared to his team mate on his F1 debut too. someone dig up the archives will ya.

#99 PiquetPete

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 01:11

Goodness me lots of you have gone mad! Come Silverstone time I will start forming a view on Piquets pace - not now! I expect him to steadily improve and gain confidence - hasn't had a good start but that's all we can read into it for now. If Renault saw his lap times and data from a years testing and thought he was useless they would not have made him a race driver! Wake up!

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#100 chrisj

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Posted 16 March 2008 - 01:41

He didn't do a great job, but certainly wasn't helped by his team – or circumstances. As poor as Alonso's qualifying was, Piquet shouldn't be that far behind him. Maybe the team is focusing too much on their number 1.