Jump to content


Photo

Qualifying is the Illusion of the 2008 season


  • Please log in to reply
20 replies to this topic

#1 SeanValen

SeanValen
  • Member

  • 16,933 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 15 March 2008 - 12:09

Does anyone remember Silverstone 2007, and some other gps last year where Hamilton impressed alot in quali, pushed the tyres hard in the early part of the race, but he didn't have the race pace all the time.

BMW
FERRARI
AND RENAULT all are capable of strong race performances, it is Ferrari and Renault who underperfomed in quali today, I wouldn't be surprised to see alot of fast cars in the race tomorrow, BMW and Ferrari could be evenly mathed, however BMW then again could drop back if they can't keep their race pace up, Mclaren as well.

Ferrari may have the fastest car for consistency, but like last year in some races, they'll have to be near the front of the grid to make it happen, like Kimi's Silverstone win, which he didn't win from pole.


I expect alot of overtaking this year primarily due to fast cars not always being able to show great for one lap, and Hamilton is likely going to go for pole all the time, because he's fast, and the car is fast for one lap, he'll be hard to beat on Saturdays, even Alonso knew that last year, but there could be race performance vunerabilities for him in the race.

And or the Mclaren could be consistent enough on it's tyres to confort poles to wins, but that'll we'll find out in time.

Don't get carried away with Hamilton's qualifying pace just yet, be patient.

Advertisement

#2 jk

jk
  • Member

  • 1,750 posts
  • Joined: November 00

Posted 15 March 2008 - 12:36

Hamilton's lap was no stunner, but decent enough to get pole. The McLaren really looked effortless compared to other cars. Especially the onboard of Hamilton during Q2 was a very well handling car.

Ferrari, BMW or even Renault could be stronger in the race but that remains to be seen. But yesterday the McLaren was clearly the best handling car.

#3 rolf123

rolf123
  • Member

  • 2,331 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 15 March 2008 - 12:43

I agree with you except for the overtaking. Don't forget that a car needs a huge speed differential to even attempt an overtake most of the time, even one second a lap is not enough.

Although worn tyres is the best way as it gives the slow exit out of corners.

I would like to think that Hamilton and his extravagant style needed the TC to temper it and I hope he bins it in the wall a few times this year :smoking:

#4 SeanValen

SeanValen
  • Member

  • 16,933 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 15 March 2008 - 12:49

Originally posted by rolf123
I agree with you except for the overtaking. Don't forget that a car needs a huge speed differential to even attempt an overtake most of the time, even one second a lap is not enough.

Although worn tyres is the best way as it gives the slow exit out of corners.

I would like to think that Hamilton and his extravagant style needed the TC to temper it and I hope he bins it in the wall a few times this year :smoking:



:up:


Originally posted by jk
Hamilton's lap was no stunner, but decent enough to get pole. The McLaren really looked effortless compared to other cars. Especially the onboard of Hamilton during Q2 was a very well handling car.

Ferrari, BMW or even Renault could be stronger in the race but that remains to be seen. But yesterday the McLaren was clearly the best handling car.



But sometimes Hamilton has set up his car to nail for the hot lap, didn't Hamilton's car look solid and handeling well in some of his poles last year as well? And then in the race, he began to lose alot of grip, the Silverstone 2008 factor, what a huge difference between quali and race, you know this is one area where Hamilton has admitted in going on the wrong set up, like Monza 2008 also, maybe he is vunerable to a less predictable car in the race if changes occur.



#5 Nobody

Nobody
  • Member

  • 1,401 posts
  • Joined: January 07

Posted 15 March 2008 - 13:05

sour grapes already?

It early days yet matey - but you can keep dreaming of your retired pin-up boy...

:rolleyes:

#6 Perigee

Perigee
  • Member

  • 895 posts
  • Joined: February 08

Posted 15 March 2008 - 13:05

Originally posted by SeanValen
Does anyone remember Silverstone 2008...

I know you're a man ahead of your time Sean, but did you mean 2007? ;)

#7 SeanValen

SeanValen
  • Member

  • 16,933 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 15 March 2008 - 13:29

Originally posted by Nobody
sour grapes already?

It early days yet matey - but you can keep dreaming of your retired pin-up boy...

:rolleyes:



Sour grapes is the Illusion of the 2008 season, wow, where you read that. Read the title again.






Originally posted by Perigee

I know you're a man ahead of your time Sean, but did you mean 2007? ;)




Yeah, 2007 cheers. I'll correct it.
:up:

#8 cek

cek
  • Member

  • 57 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 15 March 2008 - 13:38

LOL.fernando 2 sec faster than piquet with soft tyres

#9 rolf123

rolf123
  • Member

  • 2,331 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 15 March 2008 - 13:38

I am really hoping that this year Schumi will help Massa even more, give him even more tutelage in the final ingredients he needs to take the WDC. Then he can bring the WDC back to Brazil and I can call him "Son of Schumi" :smoking:

#10 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 27,210 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 15 March 2008 - 14:10

Originally posted by SeanValen



:up:





But sometimes Hamilton has set up his car to nail for the hot lap, didn't Hamilton's car look solid and handeling well in some of his poles last year as well? And then in the race, he began to lose alot of grip, the Silverstone 2008 factor, what a huge difference between quali and race, you know this is one area where Hamilton has admitted in going on the wrong set up, like Monza 2008 also, maybe he is vunerable to a less predictable car in the race if changes occur.


It does amaze me that people keep bringing up one or two races to show LH has a problem, but ignore the far more numerous good performances.

Take a look at all drivers and I'll bet you can find similar examples of good Q's, but going backwards in the race.

As far as I'm concerned he has done a great opening performance to the season, and the race looks poised to be an exciting one.

#11 Imperial

Imperial
  • Member

  • 2,713 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 15 March 2008 - 14:25

If there's one thing I've learned from years of watching F1 it's don't predict the rest of the season based on either the first qualifying or the first race.

"Qualifying is the Illusion of the 2008 season"

That's a strong statement to make after a sum total of 45 minutes of qualifying thus far in 2008 and it's a statement that (at the moment) simply can't be backed up with any evidence.

#12 rolf123

rolf123
  • Member

  • 2,331 posts
  • Joined: October 07

Posted 15 March 2008 - 14:54

If anything, I'd say he's agreeing with you.

#13 CWeil

CWeil
  • Member

  • 1,051 posts
  • Joined: March 06

Posted 15 March 2008 - 16:02

Originally posted by Imperial
If there's one thing I've learned from years of watching F1 it's don't predict the rest of the season based on either the first qualifying or the first race.

"Qualifying is the Illusion of the 2008 season"

That's a strong statement to make after a sum total of 45 minutes of qualifying thus far in 2008 and it's a statement that (at the moment) simply can't be backed up with any evidence.


+10000

Its way too early for threads like this. Way too early.

#14 mclarensmps

mclarensmps
  • Member

  • 3,746 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 15 March 2008 - 16:27

For some people, Lewis won't be good enough even if he wins 8 WDC :drunk:

Whatever lets you sleep at night I guess.

#15 SeanValen

SeanValen
  • Member

  • 16,933 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 15 March 2008 - 18:17

Originally posted by The Big Guns
For some people, Lewis won't be good enough even if he wins 8 WDC :drunk:

Whatever lets you sleep at night I guess.



Why is weighing up qualifying and race performance comparisons, a sign of attacking a driver's pedigree?

It is quite possible the Mclaren car effects how Hamilton goes about his weekend, if the car is good in quali trim, that does not always mean it'll be great in race trim, Hamilton may have to take risks to stay in front and work on shot tyres, it's hard to pinpoint without more data, but I'm trying to cover all basics.

The whole point of discussing it now is like placing a bet, when your right, everyone salutes you lol, when your wrong,well no ones perfect. :smoking: :up:



Schumacher was great in Imola 2006 qualifying, he was on fire, but the race was a different matter, he was driving on shot tyres at a point, and somehow managed to pull inlaps to outflank Alonso who has a consistent race pace package, and Pat Symonds desribed Michaels inlaps as "fantastic." Now when Hamilton pulls out special laps when his tyres are fading, I'll give him kudos, Schumacher's performances remains as benchmarks to compare drivers.


And it doesn't matter if Hamilton wins 8 wdc, it's the quality of Schumacher's best drives I'll compare every driver too, the performances.



Now lets see how good this Mclaren is in race trim, I'm not belittling Hamilton, but the sport is very much about the cars, only Schumacher at times did the impossible drives that made him a all time f1 superstar.

Enjoy the race. :smoking: :smoking: :up: :up:





Originally posted by CWeil


+10000

Its way too early for threads like this. Way too early.



I used to say the same, but if you discuss without risking making assumptions, the fun is over later, as the best fun is just at the start of the season, most dicussions like this should be taken with a grain of salt on pizza anyway, just sit back and rechallenge opinons after every gp, that's how discussions can be on the edge of adhesion. We must take risks, f1 discussion has become stale, all I see lately is people overhyping qualifying without looking into the details with a sharp thick steel microscope that's just been cleaned with beewax. :smoking:


#16 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 27,210 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 15 March 2008 - 18:26

But would you have started the same thread had KR or FM been on pole?

#17 SeanValen

SeanValen
  • Member

  • 16,933 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 15 March 2008 - 18:34

Originally posted by Clatter
But would you have started the same thread had KR or FM been on pole?



Why does anyone start threads? Should we question every forumer why he started threads? Are you a biased Hamilton fan who is blinded? Is Hamilton perfect? Can he do no wrong? It is forbidden to talk about it?



If Hamilton wasn't on pole, but I sensed his car was fast in race trim, I would let it be known, since he's on pole though, I'm offering my thoughts, and many out there I'm sure don't want to see a lights to flag victory, it would be boring, it might suite us if his tyres get shot and a BMW pushes him towards the end, and Hamilton wins with a fight,that'll be better, let's see.

#18 mclarensmps

mclarensmps
  • Member

  • 3,746 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 15 March 2008 - 18:40

Originally posted by Clatter
But would you have started the same thread had KR or FM been on pole?


This, in effect, was the point I was trying to make SV :).

I have no issues with qually analyses, but you singled out Lewis, and after my response, you implied that you were not picking on lewis per se.

I am still the Kimi Raikkonen fan that I always was, regardless of what colour suit he wears. However, I knew... no, I was confident, well before his entry into F1 that Lewis Hamilton will be a force to be reckoned with. Being the McMerc man that I am, Lewis will be the guy I root for, however, I am not unhappy when Kimi beats him. Both are phenomenal drivers, and BOTH have my unwavering support.

#19 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 27,210 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 15 March 2008 - 18:41

Originally posted by SeanValen



Why does anyone start threads? Should we question every forumer why he started threads? Are you a biased Hamilton fan who is blinded? Is Hamilton perfect? Can he do no wrong? It is forbidden to talk about it?



If Hamilton wasn't on pole, but I sensed his car was fast in race trim, I would let it be known, since he's on pole though, I'm offering my thoughts, and many out there I'm sure don't want to sure a lights to flag victory, it might suite us if his tyres get shot and a BMW pushes him towards the end, let's see.


Nothing to do with being a blind LH fan, but the manner of some of these threads is nothing short of flame baiting. That's why I asked the question. I think if KR had been on pole you would not be asking the question.

As to the race, yes I want to see him win, but first and foremost I want to see a good race. The biggest question mark for me is the fuel loads.

Advertisement

#20 SeanValen

SeanValen
  • Member

  • 16,933 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 15 March 2008 - 19:00

Originally posted by The Big Guns


This, in effect, was the point I was trying to make SV :).

I have no issues with qually analyses, but you singled out Lewis, and after my response, you implied that you were not picking on lewis per se.

I am still the Kimi Raikkonen fan that I always was, regardless of what colour suit he wears. However, I knew... no, I was confident, well before his entry into F1 that Lewis Hamilton will be a force to be reckoned with. Being the McMerc man that I am, Lewis will be the guy I root for, however, I am not unhappy when Kimi beats him. Both are phenomenal drivers, and BOTH have my unwavering support.




If you go back and look at what I wrote,I talked about alot of drivers including Kimi. The fact Hamilton had clear races where his performances in race differed from quali last year was worhty of discussion.


They all will have varying performances in quali to race and race to quai due to the characteristics of their cars plus other factors, and this goes beyond just Hamilton.


But I understand, it's a Mclaren pole, and so if you like Mclaren, my discussions could be seen as a party pooper, but that's life, without me the equalibrium of discussion would of been one sided, we must consider everything, even if makes some unhappy. It's a sport afterall. But it can be a matter of life and death F1 to some fans, were passionate about it as we make time for forums, I understand this. :smoking:



#21 mclarensmps

mclarensmps
  • Member

  • 3,746 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 15 March 2008 - 19:37

fair enough.

Though, you know me, I don't post often ;)