Mike Beuttler

I've just read something that Nigel Roebuck wrote about Mike Beuttler which left me wondering, as I don't have any particular memory of him. Can someone shed some light over the "reasons" Nigel refers to?

The original text goes like this: "In the '70s there was an extremely average driver by the name of Mike Beuttler, who was sponsored in F1 for reasons we needn't go into here "

Mike Beuttler died of AIDS in San Francisco some years ago. I assume he was
gay and thus that was the reason for Nigel's comment. Again, this is all an
assumption on my part. I saw Mike drive a F1 March several times and given
his budget he had nothing to be ashamed of.

From grandprix.com:

Beuttler was "financed by a group of wealthy stockbroker friends."

John

Originally posted by JohnS
From grandprix.com:

Beuttler was "financed by a group of wealthy stockbroker friends."

John

Ralph Clarke and David Mordaunt were his original sponsors in F3: Alistair Guthrie and Jack Durlacher joined up later.

David, AFAIK your assumption is correct.

Gay or not gay. What f…… different dos it makes. Mike Beuttler drove his March 731 back then, with the same enthusiasm that Michael Schumacher drives his Ferrari today. And what’s lies behind Beuttler’s private life is no business of us.

Beuttler was a racing driver who drove a private entered March with some help from his friends. And just maybe it’s guys like him we miss in the sport today, where F1 is losing ground almost by the day. What game are we trying to pull here?

And No - I’m not gay

Best regards

I have lived my life by following two commandments.

The most important of which is; Mind your own business!!!!

Mike was a race driver, I need not know more than that.

Originally posted by David M. Kane
Mike Beuttler died of AIDS in San Francisco some years ago. I assume he was
gay.

He was gay & he actually died in Los Angeles, we discovered lately & not San Francisco as first thought. A bit pious by Roebuck, though, god knows how he'd react to the John Riseley-Prichard saga.... Gay, transexual, alien, it doesn't matter really, although Beuttler was hardly the greatest driver in the history of the sport, but he was a damn hard trier & deserves credit for that.

Just to make the point that I couldn't care one way or the other about Beuttler's sexuality either. In fact, I'm a bit surprised at Nigel Roebuck's dismissal of him as "extremely average" - he was a more than competent performer in F3 and runner-up for the Grovewood Award. I suspect F1 may gave been a little beyond his capabilities, or possibly the capabilities of his machinery.

I think I have posted something similar to this on TNF some time back but anyway....

I had a long chat with Mike Beuttler while waiting to load our respective cars onto the Townsend Thoresen Showboat at Dover Docks early in 1972.

The 'gay' aspect of the man never occurred to me at all (this fact is completely new to me). He seemed like a really down-to-earth sort of a bloke, who, despite being a 'racing driver in the higher echelons of the sport' was not afraid or too high and mighty to talk to a know-nothing cockney lad who just happened to realise who he was.

And I would concur that for a completely private team, he didn't do a bad job at all.

I have the highest esteem for N.S.Roebuck.

If he did indeed write that then I am a little surprised. He normally has a knack of finding the right words that is most impressive.

Yes Beuttler was gay.

Yes he died of aids.

Yes he was average, by F1 standards.

But if we were to make up a grid of the 26 worst drivers to qualify for multiple GP's over the past 30 years, I doubt he'd make it.

He was average, not below average.

I saw a driver at Adelaide in 1994 who would easily be a contender for pole on such a grid.

As I was attempting to say, I thought he was a decent driver who did a decent job to say the least. I was simply trying to clarify what Mr. Roebuck was trying to say without actually saying it. Take your issue to Mr. Roebuck who on ocassion can get fairly high and fairly mighty.

Originally posted by Richie Jenkins


though, god knows how he'd react to the John Riseley-Prichard saga....

tell us more Richie! I only know this name as a F2 driver in the 50s

Beuttler's team did a pretty good job, didn't they adapt an F2 March for F1 and call it the 721G, and beat the 'official' works 721X, to such an extent that the works team did the same?

Just seems a little odd that stockbrokers would sponsor a Formula 1 effort, but I suppose in that era no-one had done demographic research on sponsorship benefits, after all Bowmaker were early sponsors.

Originally posted by ensign14
Just seems a little odd that stockbrokers would sponsor a Formula 1 effort, but I suppose in that era no-one had done demographic research on sponsorship benefits, after all Bowmaker were early sponsors.

I can't see anything odd in that. If a bunch of rich guys want to spend their money sponsoring an F1 team, why not? There don't have to be any commercial benefits - it's called enthusiasm

Originally posted by David McKinney

I can't see anything odd in that. If a bunch of rich guys want to spend their money sponsoring an F1 team, why not? There don't have to be any commercial benefits - it's called enthusiasm

Sorry - I'm from a far more cynical age.

well maybe they wouldnt let Nigel join that particular "gang" at his private school !! so thats why he bears a resentment.... having watched some of the classic F1 on Motors TV prog "Legend" and seen the angles that Beuttlers car was at (ok most of the others were too) Im pretty sure he had talent, and a lot of bravery.. I dont think Purley was that much quicker was he? he was never written off by Roebuck, in fact eulogised to a certain degree. Unfortunately for Roebuck this country ceased to be run by upper-middle class public school boys a few years back, a fact he does'nt seem to like given his constant sniping and railing at the Blair govt, anti-smoking lobby and any other 21st century institutions he doesnt care for. Not saying that I disagree with some of Nigels sentiments (especially considering my monthly tax bill!!) but you've gota go with the flow. Theres laws against being homophobic, racist etc these days - perhaps Autospurt does'nt have the same "diversity" policies as the bank I work for :-)

Originally posted by Rob29
tell us more Richie! I only know this name as a F2 driver in the 50s

It's a bit of a sorrid story. JRP was a crack money guy in London when he spent more than he earnt. For numerous reasons he turned to a specific type of porn (One our friend Buford does not specialise in!) & became one of that "area's" top merchants.
He was finally tracked by the papers & Interpol in 1993 in Thailand, where he was already dying from AIDS. (He too, was gay) Unable to extradite & trial a sick man, JRP got away with his crimes when he passed away later that year.
That's the basics, I don't really want to post too much on it here as I'm not sure it's got its place on TNF. Needless to say, ex F1 driver (one race back in 1956, I think it was) & sportscar driver, Riseley-Prichard was not one of civilisation's shining examples of goodness. If you want the full story, PM me Rob (or anyone else). I would feel decidely uneasy about posting the whole affair on here. Needless to say, if Roebuck knew (or commented on, rather) the situation, I think he'd have a field day on the man. But then JRP was a decidely average driver & unlike Beuttler, a man who was not "A good egg". :

Thanks for the awnsers.

I feel already that I should have kept my curiosity to myself, as I really didn't have the intention to get into anybody's private affairs, but I guess that I was thinking of different "reasons "...

Anyway the complete quote from Nigel's text, regarding Mike Beuttler is as follows: "In the '70s there was an extremely average driver by the name of Mike Beuttler, who was sponsored in F1 for reasons we needn't go into here; Beuttler was notorious for chopping across other drivers into corners - but, the thing was, that kind of behaviour was so unusual back then that he acquired a nickname: 'Blocker'... "

Tonicco

You have no reason to wish you'd never asked the question.

In Steve Small's 'who's who' book the final sentence in the bio on Beuttler states:

"He later moved to San Francisco, where he died at the tragically young age of 45".

The mere mention of a bloke dying young in San Francisco is a clear starter for 10. So it was bound to be to raised at some time.

Please don't go away from this thread with the impression that:

a) all of 'Blocker' Beuttler's backers, umm sponsors, necessarily shared his orientation in all matters.

b) that Nigel Roebuck is somehow an upper class reactionary toff who is morbidly 'homophobic' - daft word, doesn't that mean literally to be phobic towards one's OWN kind???? In fact Nige is a thoroughly decent and thoughtful chap, silly sod is simply addicted to tobacco.

c) that every reasonable person today necessarily has to feel comfortable with the notion that it is somehow a criminal act to apply personal value judgements to other people. The only wrongdoing surfaces when one converts such attitudes into physically abusive acts - as apparently did Risely-Prichard...with children...

DCN

On a recent ride to the West Coast in our transporter, I reviewed a video
called "The History of Motor Racing" by White Star and Duke. It is a three
cassette set, one on F1 in '50, the second on the '60s and the third the '70s. Each is a year by year review. On the '70s one there were three different clips of Mike being pasted by competitors, each time he behaved
perfectly not blocking the opponent for one second.

My question now is who is the source for this non-sense of being a blocker?
There is no evidence on the film I saw?

Two points -

First, the movie you evidently watched preserved only a tiny proportion of Mike Beuttler's track time, rendering it flimsy evidence indeed on which to suggest that his contemporarily very familiar nickname was ill-founded?

Secondly, the above would only matter if he had earned the nickname in his F1 career - but he did not - he had earned it previously in his Formula 3 career - and because of the happy rhythm of 'Blocker Beuttler'.... it stuck. Sometimes, life's a bitch...

DCN

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Please don't go away from this thread with the impression that:

a) all of 'Blocker' Beuttler's backers, umm sponsors, necessarily shared his orientation in all matters.


DCN

Our Doug does get to the heart of the matter straightaway, doesn't he?

I recall reading the quote that tonicco mentioned, and I smarted a little at the cursory (and slightly pompous?) dismissal of Beuttler as ''extremely average'' - it may be a true assessment but it did come across, to me, as rather derogatory.

(BTW- can one be ''extremely average''? Perfectly average, maybe; or merely average... but can there be extremes of ''in-the-middleness''?)

Knowing that Beuttler's backers came from the Financial community, but not much more, I was bemused at the time by the apparent slight on their motives in sponsoring him. But how did we jump from that to the assumption that this was a judgemental comment on a driver's sexual proclivities? Did I miss something?!

I saw a driver at Adelaide in 1994 who would easily be a contender for pole on such a grid.

I take it that would be one Jean-Denis Deletraz ?

A pretty hopeless, lost F1 driver, but he hardly embarrasses himself in GT cars these days.

As for Beuttler, "extremely average" does seem a little derogatory for a guy who on occasion got within a few tenths of such as James Hunt when they were both racing Marches.

Mind, there might be a simpler explanation for Mr Roebuck's offhand dismissal. Given he was known as "Blocker Beuttler", and given Nigel Roebuck's lack of time for backmarkers with poor track manners, that may be all there is to it.

In relation to a long standing and most likely never-to-be-finished project of mine, I was reading Roebuck's report of the 1989 Monaco Grand Prix earlier in the week, and he certainly lays into one of motorsports' other 'blockers', Mr Rene Arnoux

I won't bore anyone here with my views on Tony Blair, public schools or homosexuality....

Originally posted by Haddock

I won't bore anyone here with my views on Tony Blair, public schools or homosexuality....

Or the British Government, as it's otherwise known...

Originally posted by Haddock

Mind, there might be a simpler explanation for Mr Roebuck's offhand dismissal. Given he was known as "Blocker Beuttler", and given Nigel Roebuck's lack of time for backmarkers with poor track manners, that may be all there is to it.

The real explanation is of course that Roebuck's article is about MS, and he uses Beuttler as an exmple of how things went in the "old days". The days when people were still universally dismissive of 'blocking', and only mediocre ride-buyers used such underhanded tactics.

Originally posted by Foxbat


The real explanation is of course that Roebuck's article is about MS, and he uses Beuttler as an exmple of how things went in the "old days". The days when people were still universally dismissive of 'blocking', and only mediocre ride-buyers used such underhanded tactics.

The worst 'blocker' around today is Montoya - a fair bet then that Nigel is not a fan of his? And I would guess that Bernoldi is not writ large in his pantheon of stars, either. heh.

Originally posted by Bladrian


The worst 'blocker' around today is Montoya - a fair bet then that Nigel is not a fan of his? And I would guess that Bernoldi is not writ large in his pantheon of stars, either. heh.

How can you say that Montoya is the worst blocker!!!!!!!!!. In my defination : a "blocker" is one there put he's car in front of another AFTER the one they are overtaking has made he's move ( like Schumacher ) and NOT one who take a defensive line before the one behind is making he's move ( like Montoya).
just take Shueys move in Brasil this year and Montoyas in England also this year.

:

I'm sorry - I wish I could reply to your obviously impassioned retort, but I don't speak Urdu. Or Serbo-Croat. Or whatever language you replied in.

Mind you - with many grammatical, spelling and syntactical changes, it could almost resemble English ..... Care to try again?

Originally posted by Bladrian
:

I'm sorry - I wish I could reply to your obviously impassioned retort, but I don't speak Urdu. Or Serbo-Croat. Or whatever language you replied in.

Serbo-Croat? Care to explain what kind of language is that?;)

OK, not to diss You, Bladrian, but to set the record straight: there is Croatian language, and whatever they care to call it east of Eden, but Sebo-Croat was commie (&c) invention and such language never effectively existed... BTW, just to illustrate my point- first dictionary of Croatian language was printed in 1544 and grammar in 1604, whereas for Serb language not until 19th century...

I love the way things end up so off-topic on here. What starts out as an innocent enquiry as to who Mike Beuttler's backers were turns first into a debate over whether he deserves to be dismissed as "extremely average" and then detours via Nigel Roebuck's political inclinations, the decidedly unsavoury sounding John Risely-Pritchard, an inevitable trollish argument about the driving manners of Messrs Montoya and Schumacher, and finally (proving I learn something new every day) a quick note from Wolf on the non-existence of Serbo-Croatian.

Woah! Steady on, Bladrian... ''just me again'' appears to be posting from Scandinavia and expresses an interest in Danish drivers, so may well be posting in something other than his/her first language.
Give 'em a break!

Originally posted by Haddock
I love the way things end up so off-topic on here. What starts out as an innocent enquiry as to who Mike Beuttler's backers were turns first into a debate over whether he deserves to be dismissed as "extremely average" and then detours via Nigel Roebuck's political inclinations, the decidedly unsavoury sounding John Risely-Pritchard, an inevitable trollish argument about the driving manners of Messrs Montoya and Schumacher, and finally (proving I learn something new every day) a quick note from Wolf on the non-existence of Serbo-Croatian.

Yes, definitely one of the delights of TNF! My favourite meander through the minds of the assembled multitude was this one - by the time you get to post 40 or so, it's so far OT it's wonderful!

It's prefectly clear to me what JMA means.
With just a little tidying up his post reads:
How can you say that Montoya is the worst blocker! By my definition, a "blocker" is someone who puts his car in front of another AFTER the one they are overtaking has made his move ( like Schumacher ) and NOT one who takes a defensive line before the one behind makes his move ( like Montoya). Just take Shuey's move in Brazil this year and Montoya's in England also this year.

Not that I agree with his definition. To me a blocker is someone who deliberately or unwittingly fails to allow a clearly faster car past. The present rules of F1, as far as I can see, do not see anything wrong with this, unless the slower car is being lapped. In other instances, what used to be called blocking is now called "perfectly legitimate defending of position". It was not always thus.

Actually I have noticed a distinct age related split on the subject of 'blocking'. Certainly at one time, it was not considered legitimate to 'block' cars by deliberately weaving or moving on to their line so as to prevent them from passing. Among many of the older TNFers, and certainly Mr Roebuck I think blocking is still regarded as not entirely legitimate, or at least the kind of thing which the best drivers should not need to do.

I myself, being a child of my own age, have always seen blocking as a legitimate manouvre. Eseentially, I've always felt it legitimate to do whatever you want as long as your car's gearbox is clearly ahead of the other driver's nose - though obviously a brake-test is a stupid and dangerous move and liable to bring about your own downfall.

But then perhaps its no coincidence that the beginnings of my interest in the sport coincided with the rise to prominence of one A.Senna. Certainly I understand why some feel that blocking is not 'legit' and one should be able to keep a driver from passing using racecraft, choosing one's line carefully, and so on and so forth.

My main reason for believing that ultimately, it is a legitimate manouvre, is that without resort to such tactics, its hard to see how one can keep a clearly faster car from passing quite straightforwardly. To my mind, one of the most exciting spectacles in F1 is watching a driver in a clearly slower car doing everything possible to keep a driver in a faster car behind.

Which takes us back to Montoya and Schumacher at Silverstone this year again. But also, I think back to the closing laps of the Monaco GP in 1992 with Senna doing everything and more to keep a Mansell's much quicker Williams at bay.

OThat said, to my mind, the legitimacy of such tactics depends, in my mind, on the circumstances in which they are used. Senna impressed me with them against Mansell in the closing laps of the Monaco GP in 1992. A year later, when he was doing much the same sort of thing against Prost at Silverstone in the opening laps of the race, it just struck me as unnecessary, futile and actually kind of immature, especially for a triple world champion.

Perhaps the changes in the cars over the years have inevitably led to change in attitudes towards 'blocking'. Cars these days have much more powerful brakes and are much more responsive to attempts to change their direction than the ones that such as Moss and Clark drove. Maybe its simply easier to get away with that sort of thing without having accidents. And of course, accidents themselves do not generally have the terrible consequences they so often had at one time.

Originally posted by Wolf


Serbo-Croat? Care to explain what kind of language is that?;)

OK, not to diss You, Bladrian, but to set the record straight: there is Croatian language, and whatever they care to call it east of Eden, but Sebo-Croat was commie (&c) invention and such language never effectively existed... BTW, just to illustrate my point- first dictionary of Croatian language was printed in 1544 and grammar in 1604, whereas for Serb language not until 19th century...

Isn't it ironic then that people headed for that region generally get a course in this non-existent language? Or that the croats have to invent new words because almost all their words -with the exception of some Slovanian ones- were derived from serbian?

Originally posted by Foxbat


Isn't it ironic then that people headed for that region generally get a course in this non-existent language? Or that the croats have to invent new words because almost all their words -with the exception of some Slovanian ones- were derived from serbian?

I'm afraid You've not only been misinformed, but criminally misinformed. Croats have not recently 'invented' any words (save for modern technology), but plese feel free to give me any examples you know... Second, please explain how can a language that has been cultivated throughout centuries be based upon language that hasn't been even 'standardized' by that time? Care to explain why oldest Orthodox translation of Bible (Genadij's Bible, Russia) has, in some parts, strong linguistical features of Croatian language and not Serbian (who were Orthodox nation, unlike Croats)? Just check firs Serbian dictionary and tell me which language influenced which...

Wolfie... isn't this where you get to "spit aside"?

Or have you mellowed these days?

Originally posted by Wolf

I'm afraid You've not only been misinformed, but criminally misinformed. Croats have not recently 'invented' any words (save for modern technology), but plese feel free to give me any examples you know...

Zrakomlat is the only thing I know of the top of my head.

Second, please explain how can a language that has been cultivated throughout centuries be based upon language that hasn't been even 'standardized' by that time? Care to explain why oldest Orthodox translation of Bible (Genadij's Bible, Russia) has, in some parts, strong linguistical features of Croatian language and not Serbian (who were Orthodox nation, unlike Croats)? Just check firs Serbian dictionary and tell me which language influenced which...

Talk of ancient tomes proves nothing, after all what have these to do with the reality in the intervening period? Before the austro-hungarians decided to make serbian the official language of croatia the inhabitants of the province of croatia spoke a dialect that had little if anything to do with the language in those ancient tomes. From there it evolved into a dialect of the serbian language, with some influences of the earlier dialect -that's the Readers Digest version of my understanding of the evolution of these languages.


I guess it's a regional thing, the Greeks have gone through almost the same evolution and have scrambled to return to a purely greek language since.

From what ive gathered in this thread, this Mike character had enthusiast backing to fund his career. What driver hasnt? Racing takes money to operate, and only the extreme upper echelons of motorsports are economically viable to commercial sponsorship. You dont get through Karts, Formula Ford, Formula 3, et al without what i would term 'enthusiast' backing.

Unless "who was sponsored in F1 for reasons we needn't go into here" is just a way of skipping over the normal blah blah of "he had private backing" as opposed to "he was funded by Martian drug lords and the CIA assinate anyone who has knowledge of this"

Originally posted by Foxbat


Zrakomlat is the only thing I know of the top of my head.



Talk of ancient tomes proves nothing, after all what have these to do with the reality in the intervening period? Before the austro-hungarians decided to make serbian the official language of croatia the inhabitants of the province of croatia spoke a dialect that had little if anything to do with the language in those ancient tomes. From there it evolved into a dialect of the serbian language, with some influences of the earlier dialect -that's the Readers Digest version of my understanding of the evolution of these languages.


I guess it's a regional thing, the Greeks have gone through almost the same evolution and have scrambled to return to a purely greek language since.

Foxbat- not only are You wrong, but definitely history is not Your strong point... First of all, Croatia was never a province in Austro-Hungatian empire, but a kingdom which elected its own king. Secondly, Croatian language has, surely, evolved, but there is no either externaly influenced or abrupt change in the language. Thirdly, Croatian language has 9 dialects which prove that evolution, and prithee how many dialects Serb language has? Forth, it is well known fact (or should be) that the Croatians were the only nation in Europe (at least) simultaneously used three languages and three scripts throughout middle ages, plus they were effectively the only Catholic nation to be granted use of their vernacular language in liturgy (Croatian Church Slavonic), 700 years before any other nation.

But surely, You don't seriously believe that Serbian language was ever (even by foreigh authority) declared official in Croatia, either legaly or effectively? That's preposterous, to say the least.

BTW, 'zrakomlat' is relatively new word indeed, but so is the object it describes (helicopter) itself. Should Croatian language have had word for helicopter in 15th century?!?



Ray- no, I spit only with Y... word.;) And certainly didn't get any mellower, and surely I am not expected to grow that senile to forget millions of ppl, on whose bones that infernal state was built upon.;)

Going back to ' Blocking' for a moment , Gilles Villeneuve , Jarama, 1981 - Great driving or should he have got out of the way !!!;)

Originally posted by Wolf
....And certainly didn't get any mellower, and surely I am not expected to grow that senile to forget millions of ppl, on whose bones that infernal state was built upon.

Of course not...

The curse of 'humanity' playing its part in decimating the human race...

There's a disease around, appropriate to this thread, that's doing a bit of the same, with legislators, do-gooders and immature thinkers encouraging the activitiy that spreads the virus... so benevolent of them.

Originally posted by Wolf


Serbo-Croat? Care to explain what kind of language is that?;)

OK, not to diss You, Bladrian, but to set the record straight: there is Croatian language, and whatever they care to call it east of Eden, but Sebo-Croat was commie (&c) invention and such language never effectively existed... BTW, just to illustrate my point- first dictionary of Croatian language was printed in 1544 and grammar in 1604, whereas for Serb language not until 19th century...

My apologies - I was being a bit obscure. Let me rephrase that - 'Spanglish, or Sylvanium, or any other unrecognised language ...'

My conjunction of the Serbian and Croatian languages was too obscure, and in essence, unforgivable.

BTW - Afrikaans is my Mother tongue, not English (a foreign language in my house.). I'm bound to stuff it up sometime .....

Well the moment I saw the word "Blocker" used in this thread it was a case of when someone would mention Schumacher, not if.

But how the hell did we get to a Croation language lesson ?????????????

Originally posted by LittleChris
Going back to ' Blocking' for a moment , Gilles Villeneuve , Jarama, 1981 - Great driving or should he have got out of the way !!!;)

Dont be silly LittleChris, Gilles was a legend and legends are never seen to break rules, only Germans or Gays do that.

Guess we'll have to invent a new term for blokes that attempt to shove passing drivers off the track, as witness Montoya's attempt to take out Barrichello at Silverstone 2002 ..... Basher? Knocker? Or the by-now ubiquitous 'Monster Move?'

;)

Originally posted by Mark Beckman


Dont be silly LittleChris, Gilles was a legend and legends are never seen to break rules, only Germans or Gays do that.

So you say Gilles did block ?

I say blocking is going abruptly out of your way to stop a car from overtaking you.

Did Gilles do this in the race ? Or was he simply quicker through the corners and would get caught at the end of the straights ?

Funny - I'm not particularly a Gilles Villeneuve fan - and never was in period - but could have sworn that in the Spanish and Monaco GPs both I saw the finest and most memorably intelligent process of race-distance blocking in Grand Prix history.

DCN