The driver/car combinations that didn't happen...
#1
Posted 09 April 2003 - 11:56
#3
Posted 09 April 2003 - 12:18
#4
Posted 09 April 2003 - 12:29
#5
Posted 09 April 2003 - 12:35
#6
Posted 09 April 2003 - 12:37
Prost was fairly close to driving for McLaren in 1994 and for Ligier in 1992
#7
Posted 09 April 2003 - 12:39
Originally posted by Vanwall
Amon in the 312B and 312B2. Sigh.
Chris in a Marlboro-backed 312B3 in '74 - it was rumoured wasn't it, after his own car turned out to be... not very good....
pete
#8
Posted 09 April 2003 - 12:44
Originally posted by Rediscoveryx
Damon Hill was apparently on his way to Benetton at some point of the 1994 season (Murray Walker and Jonathan Palmer discussed this during the German GP). Not the most spectacular of driver/car combinations perhaps
Prost was fairly close to driving for McLaren in 1994 and for Ligier in 1992
Emmo to either Brabham or more probably Tyrrell with Marlboro money in '74 - mentioned in "Wayward Genius"
The one-car Rindt/Herd/Ecclestone team instead of the '70 March menagerie - perhaps with Bernie moving Robin into Brabham later on, who knows?
Senna in the Penske Indycar he tested against Mansell in the Lola. Now that would've been mindblowing.
Little Al in a Williams, Paul Tracy in a Benetton....
Gunnar Nilsson in the Arrows A1
Stirling in the '56 Mercedes - 4wd, a v8 and nearly 300bhp if what the rumours say is nearly true?
#9
Posted 09 April 2003 - 12:44
Originally posted by ian senior
Chris Amon returning to March in 1973, or did I dream this?
Discussed on the thread;)
#10
Posted 09 April 2003 - 12:48
pete
#11
Posted 09 April 2003 - 12:49
#12
Posted 09 April 2003 - 12:59
#13
Posted 09 April 2003 - 13:04
Originally posted by byrkus
Jean Alesi in Williams... Talk about missing oportunities
Yes, that's a good one
Talking about Damon Hill - he was offered a contract by McLaren for 1998. I wonder what might have been...
#14
Posted 09 April 2003 - 14:32
I wonder what might have been to the following drivers in formula 1 cars:
AJ Foyt, Parnelli Jones, Al Unser Sr. and Jr., Jean Pierre Jaussaud, Bob Wollek, Klaus Ludwig, Maurizio Flammini, Giancarlo Martini, Arie Luyendyk, Richard Dallest, Eje Elgh, Michel and Alain Ferte, John Nielsen, Ross Cheever, Antonio Tamburini, Mauro Martini, Kelvin Burt, Jordi Gene, Gil de Ferran, Marc Goossens, Kenny Bräck, Jörg Müller, Oliver Gavin, Tom Kristensen, Jason Watt, Dari Franchitti, Gonzalo Rodriguez, Nicolas Minassian, Greg Moore, Helio Castroneves, Bruno Junqueira.....
They are all drivers, who had/have pretty much of talent and deserved a seat in formula 1.
Also there are drivers, who deserved more time in formula 1 cars (full seasons):
Bobby Unser, Ernestro Brambilla, Marco Apicella, Allan McNish, Michael Bartels, Vincenzo Sospiri, Stephane Sarrazin, Alex Wurz, Marc Gene, Luca Badoer, etc......and of course all those drivers who were severly injured or died.....
Imagine Gilles Villeneuve vs. Ayrton Senna, Wimille vs. Fangio vs. Ascari, Peter Collins vs. Jim Clark, Ricardo Rodriguez vs. Jim Clark vs. E. Fittipaldi vs. Bandini, Pedro Rodriguez vs. Niki Lauda; Williamson, Pryce and Brise against each other, Bellof against Senna and Senna vs. Schumacher vs. J.Villeneuve......the list goes on...
There are also future prospects, I like to see in formula 1 like Bourdais, Pantano, Montagny Wirdheim, Ricardo Sperafico, Tomas Scheckter, Anthony Davidson, Ryo Fukuda.......
#15
Posted 09 April 2003 - 14:35
#16
Posted 09 April 2003 - 14:36
#17
Posted 09 April 2003 - 16:46
Originally posted by petefenelon
Now there's a thought - who was tenatatively down to drive the Winkelmann-Lotus and Ferrari Indycars?
First Willy T., then Al Jr. in the former, Rahal in the latter.
Another combo: John Watson & Toleman in '85.
And Rick Mears & Brabham in '81, if Bernie had been able to convince Rick to become a paying driver.
#18
Posted 09 April 2003 - 19:17
Originally posted by theunions
First Willy T., then Al Jr. in the former, Rahal in the latter.
Another combo: John Watson & Toleman in '85.
And Rick Mears & Brabham in '81, if Bernie had been able to convince Rick to become a paying driver.
Isn't the story there that Bernie and Mears were discussing terms, and had agreed on $250000 for the race, the only difference being that Mears thought Bernie was giving him the quarter-million rather than vice-versa?;)
pete
#19
Posted 09 April 2003 - 20:35
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#20
Posted 09 April 2003 - 20:53
Originally posted by byrkus
Jean Alesi in Williams... Talk about missing oportunities
1993. Hakkinen. Williams
#21
Posted 09 April 2003 - 21:02
#22
Posted 09 April 2003 - 21:48
Originally posted by dretceterini
Phil Hill going somewhere other than ATS..
Well, he did the following year, to Cooper... and it ended in tears.
And latching onto that line, what of Tim Mayer in the Coopers and McLarens he would have been in but for his untimely demise?
#23
Posted 09 April 2003 - 21:56
Wasn't there some talk of Parnelli Jones driving an F1 Lotus c.1964-65?
Peter Revson with Ferrari in 1974. Apparently, the deal fell through because of his desire to drive at Indianapolis.
#24
Posted 09 April 2003 - 22:54
#25
Posted 09 April 2003 - 22:58
#26
Posted 09 April 2003 - 23:24
Originally posted by Roger Clark
Froilan Gonzalez in a Lotus 25?
Or even 'Orrice Gould?
Originally posted by Ray Bell
Seeing as we're going off on that tangent... what about Dan Gurney in a 1963 ATS?
His feet would probably have stuck out the front! Roger and I saw Phil Hill threading his way into the ATS last year and he was cramped enough ...
#27
Posted 09 April 2003 - 23:39
#28
Posted 09 April 2003 - 23:52
Originally posted by petefenelon
Now there's a thought - who was tenatatively down to drive the Winkelmann-Lotus and Ferrari Indycars? The gas-turbine Essex-Lotus car at Le Mans?
The gas-turbine Esex-Lotus car at Le Mans? I've never heard of such a thing. I know it's O.T., but can you tell me a little more about it, Pete?
Mike
#29
Posted 10 April 2003 - 06:19
#30
Posted 10 April 2003 - 06:26
Stirling Moss in a Lotus 49
Tazio Nuvolari in an Alfa 158
Peter Collins in a Lotus
Ronnie Peterson in anything turbocharged
Dick Seaman in a V16 BRM
Bernd Rosemeyer in a W196
Jackie Stewart in a P34
John Surtees in any post-1966 Ferrari
Alberto Ascari in a Ferrari-entered Lancia
Bruce in an M23
Michael Schumacher in a W125
#31
Posted 10 April 2003 - 09:18
Originally posted by Vitesse2
.....His feet would probably have stuck out the front! Roger and I saw Phil Hill threading his way into the ATS last year and he was cramped enough ...
I was thinking rather more of how much higher his head would be than Phil's was... already too much of him out of the cockpit...
#32
Posted 10 April 2003 - 09:24
Originally posted by Roger Clark
Stirling Moss in a Lotus 49
Yes, loved that one, Roger ... thought of it meself He would have been 39 by then, but surely as competitive as ever.
The other one that tantalises, had the arrangement survived four years, is The Golden Boy in a Walker Ferrari 312 in 1966. Would les autres have laid a hand on him in the first year of The Return to Power?
#33
Posted 10 April 2003 - 09:24
Originally posted by m.tanney
The gas-turbine Esex-Lotus car at Le Mans? I've never heard of such a thing. I know it's O.T., but can you tell me a little more about it, Pete?
Mike
It's mentioned in Crombac's book on Chapman - partly as a sign of the influence David Thieme exerted over him (remember Chapman said he'd never, ever go back!). I don't know how far it got (probably no further than sketches?). Thieme had already sponsored Porsche at Le Mans, he wanted to do the same for Lotus - I am not sure where the gas-turbine idea came from, Chapman, Thieme or Rudd, but Rudd looked around for engines... the plan was to use a Rolls Royce Gem gas-turbine (which certainly has the right sort of horsepower) and to use some of the prodigious amount of gas it generated to give ground-effect.
#34
Posted 10 April 2003 - 13:26
Paul Warwick in any Formula 1 car after his fatal crash (Lotus?, March?, Arrows?)
In the thread "Almost Moves" someone wrote that Paul Stewart was ready to drive for Minardi in 1994. Now, that would have been also very interesting to see......
Nils
#35
Posted 10 April 2003 - 14:28
Michael Bleekemolen & the Lotus "B" team in 1979
Huub Rothengatter & Tyrrell 1981 (He was outgunned by Alboreto. Perhaps a wise choice)
Jan Lammers & March 1993
Jos Verstappen & Honda
#36
Posted 10 April 2003 - 14:42
#37
Posted 10 April 2003 - 16:40
Originally posted by Frank de Jong
Michael Bleekemolen & the Lotus "B" team in 1979
Could you elaborate about the "B" team?
#38
Posted 10 April 2003 - 16:49
Originally posted by lustigson
I am surprised that no-one mentioned Senna-Ferrari yet. :
Exactly, that's the first thing I thought of when I saw the topic title.
Although he was young and learning, really would of been interesting to see Schumacher alongside Mansell in that dominant williams in 1992.
#39
Posted 10 April 2003 - 18:54
Perry McCarthy in anything swift enough to enable qualification (or atleast get out of the pitlane) ??
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#40
Posted 10 April 2003 - 20:21
Originally posted by bill moffat
Barrichello in a works-supported Ferrari ?
Very good
I always fancied the idea of Colin McRae in a Stewart...without traction control of course.
#41
Posted 10 April 2003 - 21:02
Originally posted by 2F-001
I read there was some talk of Roger Williamson going to Tyrrell, once Ken knew that Stewart was plannng to retire. Does anyone know just how real a possibility this was?
I'd guess fairly unlikely - Tom Wheatcroft had ordered two M23s to get them going properly in F1, and they were going to build their own car for '75. (source: Tremayne, Racers Apart, which has lovely chapters on Tom Pryce and Roger Williamson)
pete
#42
Posted 11 April 2003 - 06:59
Jarier signing an exclusive contract with Ferrari.... But a stupid newspaper revealed it, Mosley made such a mess that finally contract was abandonned by the commendatore... Enzo finally signed..........Lauda for what his been since....
Imagine Godasse de Plomb in 1975 as 1st driver with that Ferrari.... If you want i can post the whole story taken from 'Sport Auto' and written by José rosinski...
#43
Posted 11 April 2003 - 07:43
Originally posted by fvebr
The Biggest thing i think was 1974....
Jarier signing an exclusive contract with Ferrari.... But a stupid newspaper revealed it, Mosley made such a mess that finally contract was abandonned by the commendatore... Enzo finally signed..........Lauda for what his been since....
Imagine Godasse de Plomb in 1975 as 1st driver with that Ferrari.... If you want i can post the whole story taken from 'Sport Auto' and written by José rosinski...
The same subject is explored in the Jarier feature in last month's issue of Motor Sport.
#44
Posted 11 April 2003 - 08:47
Originally posted by theunions
Could you elaborate about the "B" team?
Bleekemolen's backers F&S properties were planning to run 2 lotus 79 cars in 1979. IIRC the second seat was first offered to Lammers (their archrival from 78 and earlier, who chose Shadow instead) but later I think Keegan was mentioned. I would have to look up why the thing collapsed (something with licenses?) - money was not the problem.
#45
Posted 11 April 2003 - 17:34
#46
Posted 12 April 2003 - 13:20
#47
Posted 12 April 2003 - 15:30
#48
Posted 12 April 2003 - 20:04
Originally posted by Ralliart
Ickx almost did the same thing. Signed for them, didn't hear, was about to go with Tyrrell in '68 when he was told that Matra was not going to field two cars. He then signed with Ferrari at the last minute only to find out that Matra would, indeed, have two cars, for Stewart and Beltoise (or three? with Servoz-Gavin.)
There were two different teams in 1968 entering one Matra each for most of the season: Ken Tyrrell's Matra International with JYS driving the MS 10-Cosworth (substituted temporarely by JPB and JSG when injured) and the French Matra Sports team with Jean-Pierre Beltoise driving the MS 11-Matra V12. Both teams entered a second car only much later in the season for Johnny Servoz-Gavin and Henri Pescarolo respectively.
I guess that if Jacky Ickx was going drive a Matra in 1968 it would have been for Ken Tyrrell; however it looks like Ken could not guarantee that extra seat for his 1967 F2 star driver for the first part of the season.
#49
Posted 12 April 2003 - 21:53
Bobbo
#50
Posted 12 April 2003 - 22:23
We'd have been denied the beauty of the Eagle.