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Changes Spa-Francorchamps for next year.

Started by Enkei , Oct 14 2003 19:49

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30 replies to this topic

#1 Enkei

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Posted 14 October 2003 - 19:49

Here's a picture from www.belgium-grandprix.be, the official site of the 2004 Belgian GP. I noticed that they completely removed the Busstop Chicane. Luckily they seem to leave the other part of the circuit untouched. I think it's sad to see the Busstop go, although it's just another chicane, it was quite characteristic for Spa, together with Eau Rouge, Pouhon and Blanchimont

#2 Jhope

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Posted 14 October 2003 - 19:55

erm...i'm not sure what to think of this change.

#3 Todd

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Posted 14 October 2003 - 19:56

Originally posted by Enkei

Here's a picture from www.belgium-grandprix.be, the official site of the 2004 Belgian GP. I noticed that they completely removed the Busstop Chicane. Luckily they seem to leave the other part of the circuit untouched. I think it's sad to see the Busstop go, although it's just another chicane, it was quite characteristic for Spa, together with Eau Rouge, Pouhon and Blanchimont

How does that constitute completely removing the bus-stop chicane? From the overhead view, it still looks about the same as it has been. They just changed the entrance to the chicane a bit.

#4 pRy

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Posted 14 October 2003 - 19:58

I agree with Todd, they have just altered the bend prior to the bus stop so it bends to the right more, so the bus stop entrance is now longer.

#5 Dolph

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Posted 14 October 2003 - 20:02

Good news for Nelson Piquet Jr.

(During the F3 race there he missed the bus-stop more often than not)

#6 jonpollak

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Posted 14 October 2003 - 20:11

Possibly to provide a better overtaking opportunity?

But hey....at least Eau Rouge, Pouhon and Blanchimont remain unchanged...right?

Jp

#7 maclaren

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Posted 14 October 2003 - 20:15

I feared they were going to give whole circuit for Tilke but good if he was stopped.

#8 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 14 October 2003 - 20:22

Bus Stop looks removed entirely (isnt it just in front of Silver 7 or thereabouts?)

Its gonna look ass if for no other reason than you have this great natural and flowing track, then something just throw in there man made

#9 Wolbo

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Posted 14 October 2003 - 20:30

If you completely change the entry to the busstop it ceases to be a busstop.

Posted Image

#10 Simioni

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Posted 14 October 2003 - 20:59

If the scale in that map is correct then it´s no longer a chicane, it´s two separated corners.

#11 baddog

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Posted 14 October 2003 - 21:10

its wierd to be 'nostalgic' over a damned chicane eh? but I will miss the busstop nonetheless, it just seemed lik part of spa now.

the new corner looks like it may actually be better though, will be interesting to see if theres some aggressive moves into there

Shaun

#12 Simioni

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Posted 14 October 2003 - 21:30

It´s not so much the bus stop that I´d miss but rather the right/left flatout blast following it which was great to watch and a true challenge in the wet. They´ve already took care of it in last year´s modifications though, part of the trend of widening/flattening/generally sterelizing corners that has made of 130R its latest victim :rolleyes:

#13 Todd

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Posted 14 October 2003 - 21:33

Originally posted by Simioni
It´s not so much the bus stop that I´d miss but rather the right/left flatout blast following it which was great to watch and a true challenge in the wet. They´ve already took care of it in last year´s modifications though, part of the trend of widening/flattening/generally sterelizing corners that has made of 130R its latest victim

You won't see me getting nostalgic about chicanes, but I wonder about 130R. Didn't JPM say that the new curve is more of a challenge?

#14 Simioni

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Posted 14 October 2003 - 21:40

It has a couple of bumps midcorner that forces a slight lift in most cases. I doubt it will take long for it to be addressed though. Even if it isn´t, the point is that the corner has lost it´s characteristic, and just doesnt look exciting anymore with that wider exit.

#15 Jhope

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Posted 14 October 2003 - 21:48

Originally posted by Todd

You won't see me getting nostalgic about chicanes, but I wonder about 130R. Didn't JPM say that the new curve is more of a challenge?

I think most drivers said the same thing. From the on-board shots, it seemed that most of the drivers were lifting throught 130R. Even those with very balanced cars.

#16 Simioni

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Posted 14 October 2003 - 21:55

the thing is the bumps are pretty much at the apex, so I imagine that the drivers are forced to lift in order not to lose the car altogether. Once they´re past the bumps though there´s way too much road in the exit for the momentum they´re carrying, so they never even get close to the curbs in the outer edge.

#17 fingers

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Posted 14 October 2003 - 22:01

Thats a beautifull looking overtakeing spot that little kink just as you approach the Bus Stop is perfect for a sling-shot down the inside into the entry.

#18 scheivlak

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Posted 14 October 2003 - 22:05

Originally posted by Simioni
It´s not so much the bus stop that I´d miss but rather the right/left flatout blast following it which was great to watch and a true challenge in the wet. They´ve already took care of it in last year´s modifications though, part of the trend of widening/flattening/generally sterelizing corners that has made of 130R its latest victim

C'mon! Sterilizing? You have to take a look at the changes at the 130R/chicane complex together and the changes resulted in greater overtaking possibilities, while the essential character of 130R remained (still not a simple flat out). As a result of the modifications I saw more action and passing at the Casino chicane than the last four or five Japan GPs together.

#19 Mila

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Posted 14 October 2003 - 22:11

Originally posted by Simioni
If the scale in that map is correct then it´s no longer a chicane, it´s two separated corners.

that seems right to me.

judging from the illustration, the track actually bends to the right after Blanchimont--so this is new. this change will presumably make the ensuing corner (with the pit entry now out of the way) much safer in the instance of a brake failure or the type of contact suffered by GF in 98.

#20 Mox

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Posted 14 October 2003 - 23:02

I will always remember standing at the Bus stop watching the glow of the brake disc as the cars came hammering into the chicane, and the explosive roar of no traction control accelerating out.

I will probably miss that, but I'll reserve the right to judge AFTER having watched the 2004 race from the spot.

With a bit of luck ... maybe I can meet a few of you assholes ;) and we can sort out the new bus stop while sorting out a few Leffe Triple.

#21 RSNS

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Posted 15 October 2003 - 02:13

Good riddance

.

#22 Nasty McBastard

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Posted 15 October 2003 - 03:22

ive seen worse jobs done....the equivilant of which would be plonking a chicane down on the entry to eau rouge or something.

to me that doesnt look bad. all its doing is making a fast chicane, a bit more chicaney and slowing it down a little.

doesnt look like itd ruin the feel/flow of the track, coz that area was a little pokey anyway.

#23 POLAR

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Posted 15 October 2003 - 04:21

I just hate chicanes.

Polar

#24 BRG

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Posted 15 October 2003 - 13:06

Are we sure that this isn't just a very crap map? There is veru little scope to change the Bus-stop in the way shown. If you look at the photos that Wolbo posted, there is a severe drop away to the left of the track and a rock face and steep hillside to the right, Without some MAJOR earthworks and rock blasting, you couldn't put in a wider series of bends as shown in the map.

But if they did get rid of it, then great! :up:

It's always been an abortion and the only thing really wrong with Spa.

#25 Chris_Amon

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Posted 15 October 2003 - 13:19

Bring back masta kink !

#26 Hunger27

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Posted 15 October 2003 - 17:53

I think the map showed in the site is wrong.

If you look at the photos, you will notice a donwhill in the section. Futhermore there are trees, a lot of, to cut and build a desnecessary change, so face problems with ecologists.
It is not possible also changes in the second part of the chicane due to the hill behind.

IMO, natural elevation changes make more dificult to design and later change it, however, those are better ones.

I hope that the new Turquish circuit has some elevation changes.

Your thoughts......................

#27 Nasty McBastard

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Posted 15 October 2003 - 20:27

i was wondering about tree huggers too..... especially after the stink over a few trees at monza.

although monza is in some kind of protected park thing isnt it?

#28 CONOSUR

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Posted 17 December 2003 - 18:26

It's my opinion that you're all reading this incorrectly. The lead-in to Bus Stop isn't being changed, and the actual bus stop isn't being removed. From what I see, the corner is being moved farther to the outside, or left side in the pictures, utilizing the access road area as the new track section extension, thereby bypassing the current chicane, without actually removing it, and replacing it with proper corners. :up:

I like it. As it is, the new section will have a significantly higher elevation than the bus top.

Although, had the lead-in been moved to the inside, or right side of the second picture, it could've added more 'Spa'-type improvements by adding a serious elevation change before entering the chicane in addition to the elevation change after entering the corner area. :up:

Personally, I think they should have done both! But, no matter, I think it's a wonderful improvement. :up:

:up:

#29 glorius&victorius

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Posted 17 December 2003 - 19:14

...on your tv it will look the same...don't make too much of it...

if they'd changed Eau Rouge, well that would have stirred me up

#30 UMSLtifosi

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Posted 17 December 2003 - 22:50

Originally posted by Wolbo
If you completely change the entry to the busstop it ceases to be a busstop.

Not that it's been a bus stop for at least a few years right? It used to be a bus stop when the road was open for public usage, but when they closed the circuit and built the roads around the track it ceased to be used. Or was it only that La Source to Les Combs was closed? I can't recall which. But either way, if it's still in use, it'll probably remain a bus stop, and if its not in use, it doesn't matter.

A second point, about bus stop just being stuck in the track and not being good. There is a good reason to have that chicane. It's safety! La Source doesn't have a lot of run off room, and there are grandstands on the outside. So imagine a car coming down the straight at 320kph or more and losing their brakes! They'd run right into the stands. Bus stop is used to slow the cars down where if there is a problem, it's more contained.

UMSLtifosi

#31 philhitchings

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Posted 18 December 2003 - 00:39

Originally posted by Mox
I will always remember standing at the Bus stop watching the glow of the brake disc as the cars came hammering into the chicane, and the explosive roar of no traction control accelerating out.

I will probably miss that, but I'll reserve the right to judge AFTER having watched the 2004 race from the spot.

With a bit of luck ... maybe I can meet a few of you assholes ;) and we can sort out the new bus stop while sorting out a few Leffe Triple.

see you on the friday maybe :up: