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Van Hool

Started by VDP , Dec 23 2003 11:17

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35 replies to this topic

#1 VDP

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 11:17

The belgian coachbuilder build a formula 2 in 1975 in is spanish location but who was behnd the technical project , why this advanced car failed, and who was behind the Michel Vaillant Bang & Olufsen sponsorship ?

Robert

#2 Marcor

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 11:38

behind the MV B & O Team: Bernard de Dryver 's father....

#3 Mallory Dan

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 11:47

What is BdD up to these days. I remember him from F2 in the 70s, bit of a 'rich kid' I thought, but had some talent too. Didn't he have one of the first F1 schools at Ricard or somewhere ?

#4 VDP

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 11:48

Wasn't it too much F2 and F3 for this importer of hi fi material ?

Robert

#5 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 23 December 2003 - 12:32

Originally posted by Mallory Dan
What is BdD up to these days. I remember him from F2 in the 70s, bit of a 'rich kid' I thought, but had some talent too. Didn't he have one of the first F1 schools at Ricard or somewhere ?

http://www.oldracing...tn.asp?letter=D

Wasn't van Hool founded by Mikke's dad, who also runs the truck company??

#6 joriswouters

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Posted 24 December 2003 - 16:02

Originally posted by Richie Jenkins

http://www.oldracing...tn.asp?letter=D

Wasn't van Hool founded by Mikke's dad, who also runs the truck company??

I'm pretty sure. Mikke also owns Team Astromega, for which Wilson, the late Rodriguez, Alonso, Goossens... have driven.

#7 Marcor

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Posted 24 December 2003 - 20:19

There was a picture in Auto Hebdo (maybe the Belgian edition) with Mister Van Hool, the Belgian bus constructor and father of Mike Van Hool of Astromega, and his friend Juan Manuel Fangio.

#8 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 09:01

Four years after,

Here the 1976 Van Hool F2 with a BMW 2 liters engine.

It was a disastrous car and Bernard de Dryver DNQ in Hockenheim for his only appeared on a grid.

Were is the car now ??

Posted Image

#9 David Beard

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 09:31

Originally posted by Gerard Gamand

Here the 1976 Van Hool F2 with a BMW 2 liters engine.
It was a disastrous car.

You can't call such a pretty car a disaster...

#10 RTH

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 09:40

Background

http://www.famousbel...net/vanhool.htm

#11 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 09:49

You're right David, it look great !

#12 Pedro 917

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 09:59

Originally posted by Mallory Dan :

What is BdD up to these days. I remember him from F2 in the 70s, bit of a 'rich kid' I thought, but had some talent too. Didn't he have one of the first F1 schools at Ricard or somewhere ?

I often see him in the F1 paddock during the GP Masters series (Historic). I believe he's promoting Belgian drivers to run F1 cars in Historic events. At the Nürburgring Old Timer GP this summer, he drove an ex-Niki Lauda March 721 to seventh place in the first heat, didn't start in the second. I also saw him in the pitlane during the Spa 6Hours F1 support race. He's a humble guy and seems to be enjoying this very much.

Here's a picture of BDD from the Ring :

#13 Alan Cox

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 10:11

Van Hool sponsored Daniel Herregods in European F3 in 1978 (see sticker on the side of the tub)
Posted Image

#14 Bonde

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 18:11

Who designed that very pretty and interesting Van Hool car?

#15 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 28 October 2007 - 18:33

This F2 called : Van Hool VHM (Van Hool Marcel) was designed by Alain Siccardi and built in the Van Hool factory of Saragosse in Spain.

#16 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 18:56

I've had today a long chat with the belgium driver Freddy Grainal. (He call me on the book that I'm writing on the french GRAC marque, because he drived a GRAC MT12 Super VW in 1971...)

He say that Marcel Van Hool ordered TWO chassis, called VHM-001 and VHM-002. They were stayed during many years in the factory. During this time, Van Hool sponsored Freddy Grainal with a ot of cars (Lola T290 #HU17, etc.)

Finaly Freddy ask to resort the two cars for hillclimbs at the begening of eighties. One was with a Ford engine, the second with a BMW Schnitzer.

After some results, (???) Freddy sold one of the chassis to an other belgium, but he don't remember who.
Like he don't remember what happend to the second chassis...

#17 Bonde

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Posted 29 October 2007 - 20:34

Thanks, Gerard.

Does anyone know of any other work done by Alain Siccardi? The VHM certainly looks right and beautifully engineered - I wonder if it could've have been improved with proper development?

#18 ian senior

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Posted 30 October 2007 - 08:52

Remember what Frank Costin said - something like "Spare me, oh Lord, from the man who said "if it looks right, it is right".

#19 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 14:05

New pic of this very rare Formula 2. This time with the Ford engine.

Posted Image

#20 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 14:12

And the very ambitious rising rate front suspension

Posted Image

#21 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 14:40

For his only outing in the European F2 Championship, at Hockenheim in april 1976, Bernard De Dryver was wearing the Bang and Olufsen coulours. He didn't qualified.

His best time was 2'09"4 (the pole was for Hans Stuck o the works March 762 with 1'58""9)

Posted Image

#22 Bonde

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 14:47

Ian,

Good point - there have been many pretty garage queens, and in this day and age all succesful F1 cars are incredibly ugly by any standard, methinks. Functional within the regulations, yes, aesthetically they are a total mess, IMO.

I know it's slightly fluffy, but do we have a thread about pretty cars that didn't work and ugly ones that did? At least it might spawn a discussion about what details lead to failure and which ones don't. Audacious complexity combined with a small budget and limited time and testing seems to be one almost certain road to failure...

#23 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 15:01

Anders,

You are particularly right.

How many wonderful and complicated cars have we seen during the 50 last years, who was total disastrous because of too small budget !!

On the other side, we have just to remember the Brabham of Ron Tauraunac in 66 and 67...

This Van Hool is a good example of a "no way" adventure.

#24 Cirrus

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 18:50

On the other side, we have just to remember the Brabham of Ron Tauraunac in 66 and 67...

Don't forget that Ron was a great believer in testing the torsional rigidity of his chassis, and the stiffness of suspension pickups etc. Something tells me that those front suspension pickups on the Van Hool would have failed the "Ron Test" miserably....

#25 David Beard

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 20:07

Originally posted by Gerard Gamand

I regret that I have to offer the opinion that the car looked much better with the bodywork in place. : What sort of flexative horrors did that spring bracket have on the overall effect...

edit. Sorry, I seemed to have repeated what Cirrus said!

#26 Bonde

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 20:22

I haven't had the time to study the VHM photos posted here, thanks to that wonderful and prolific contributor Gerard Gamand, in any detail until now, but off-hand I agree with Alan that the bases of those 'horns' appear too small, should have picked up more on underlying structure (inner tub wall and horizontal web above the torsion bar), assuming there is any additional internal back-up structure. I wonder what type of rivets were used? They look like aluminium pop rivets, which are neither stiff nor strong. The longitudinal support of the upper wishbone appears very iffy also - the forward pick-up point of the upper wishbone appears to have too many degrees of freedom in my book. A better vertical support there, combined with a longitudinal strut to fix the "horn" for the aft pick-up point, would have helped.

A shame really, because it all appears very nicely crafted, but as Alan rightly points out, the chassis was apparently lacking in some detail design aspects. A certain lack of experience shows, I think.

#27 macoran

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 20:26

VHM-001 on the track. Hockenheim F2 76 De Dryver

http://www.iher.net/.....ol VHM001.jpg

#28 fines

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 20:39

I don't get that front suspension geometry, anyway! Is that a rocker arm protruding from the front of the upper wishbone, or a pullrod acting on the base of the damper? And does the car have any springs at all???

#29 macoran

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 21:10

The protrusion ahead of the front wishbone is part of the triangulated forward wishbone mount.
Look at the lower part of the damper and you will see a lever type arm which operates a rearward
pointing torsion bar.

#30 fines

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Posted 31 October 2007 - 21:39

Yes, you're right on both counts - should've looked more closely! :blush:

: Still, that torsion bar-damper-upper wishbone-link does look very suspect, doesn't it? I wonder how it reacted to braking forces... Oh, and hopefully the crew removed the spanner before sending the car out!

#31 ian senior

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Posted 01 November 2007 - 11:55

Originally posted by Cirrus

Don't forget that Ron was a great believer in testing the torsional rigidity of his chassis, and the stiffness of suspension pickups etc. Something tells me that those front suspension pickups on the Van Hool would have failed the "Ron Test" miserably....

And there we have an example of "if it looks wrong, it is wrong". I'm no engineer, but I know enough to realise that those kind of mountings aren't the way to go. Remember the even dodgier ones on the Hesketh 308C? God knows what Harvey Postlethwaite was thinking on the day he drew those.

#32 Gerard Gamand

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 18:50

Here Bernard de Dryver during the first testing

Posted Image

#33 F1racefan013

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Posted 07 November 2007 - 20:11

Dear all

May I ask you if anybody has a color pic of the nose of March 761 N° 38 driven by Bernard De Dryver in Belgian GP 1977 (practice only NQ)with Sarome Sponsorship.

Thanks in advance

Best regards

#34 Rob Ryder

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Posted 08 November 2007 - 10:53

Originally posted by F1racefan013
Dear all

May I ask you if anybody has a color pic of the nose of March 761 N° 38 driven by Bernard De Dryver in Belgian GP 1977 (practice only NQ)with Sarome Sponsorship.

Thanks in advance

Best regards

Check your PMs ;)