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Please help me with my F5000 McLaren M10A!
Started by
Exact10
, Sep 25 2005 18:28
181 replies to this topic
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#102
David McKinney
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Posted 13 August 2006 - 05:33
It's a lot easier to click on the 'quote' box at the top of the post, George ;)
#103
Allen Brown
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Posted 13 August 2006 - 12:51
Most interesting! In 1985, Ealand advertised the ex-Lane hillclimb M10B, a car we now know to be 400-03, ex-McKenchnie/Walker and later to Shardlow and Bailey. Ealand had got it from Ian Webb in early 1984 but unfortunately Ian can't remember where he got it from. I don't know where that car is today.Originally posted by David McKinney
I have him with the purported M10A in 1989, unraced 1990, then raced again 1991 and 1992. Previous owner said to have been Roger Ealand.
Rick had the ex-Prophet/Moore/le Tissier M10B (another '400-04', the one now with Bruce Leeson) from 1988 to Feb 1990 and the ex-Holland/Oates/Harris M10B (another '400-06', the one now with Mark Longmore) from 1990 to 1993. This means he must have had a third one during the same period. I'd better give Rick a call and see how good his memory is.Originally posted by David McKinney
The alleged M10B first appears in Pugh hands in 1991, having been raced by Rick Hall in 1989 and 1990
Duncan - when you say the Lane car on my [unpublished!] M10B page is an early tub, do you mean this one?
Allen
#104
Exact10
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Posted 13 August 2006 - 14:44
Allen, you reference "An article in Autoweek 10 May 1969 dated 18 April (Autoweek's normal production lag) says that Motschenbacher, Hansen and Barker will drive M10As so Barker's was definitely an early order but may not have been built until later. The article says that "Motschenbacher's and Hansen's cars arrived in the United States last week". Eaton's isn't mentioned."
From what I understand the Eaton car was collected from England by the team, it came into the USA via New York and then crossed the border by trailer into Canada
I'll call Ralph today and try to tie that up
Ian
From what I understand the Eaton car was collected from England by the team, it came into the USA via New York and then crossed the border by trailer into Canada
I'll call Ralph today and try to tie that up
Ian
#107
Allen Brown
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Posted 13 August 2006 - 20:05
The photo was taken at Doune in 1971. The image is copyright Steve Wilkinson 2006 and in this form it is also copyright Allen Brown 2006. That's why I linked to it the way I did.
History as follows (copyright Allen Brown 2006 - sorry I have to stress copyrights today but as the text and the JPEG have come directly from an unpublished page on OldRacingCars.com, I have to do it).
Roy Lane British Hill Climb Championship 1971. To Richard Shardlow: British Hill Climb Championship 1972 (until rolled at Harewood 10 Sep 1972). Not rebuilt and eventually sold late 1973 to John Bailey. Rebuilt with 5.5-litre Chevy and LG600 and used in Sprints during 1974 and 1975 (e.g. Duxford Sprint Oct 1974 and a win at Curborough August 1975).
I'm not sure where the car was from 1975 to 1984.
The origins of this car were unclear until very recently with some sources saying it was an unused circuit racing McLaren and others implying it was built by Lane from spares. Then Jeremy Jackson spotted in his notebooks that he'd seen Richard Shardlow's ex-Lane M10B in 1972 and had been told it was the car that Mike Walker had crashed in 1970. Also, Jeremy had observed the number 400-03 on Roger Ealand's car (said to be ex-Lane in one of Ealand's adverts) in Sep 1985.
Allen
History as follows (copyright Allen Brown 2006 - sorry I have to stress copyrights today but as the text and the JPEG have come directly from an unpublished page on OldRacingCars.com, I have to do it).
Roy Lane British Hill Climb Championship 1971. To Richard Shardlow: British Hill Climb Championship 1972 (until rolled at Harewood 10 Sep 1972). Not rebuilt and eventually sold late 1973 to John Bailey. Rebuilt with 5.5-litre Chevy and LG600 and used in Sprints during 1974 and 1975 (e.g. Duxford Sprint Oct 1974 and a win at Curborough August 1975).
I'm not sure where the car was from 1975 to 1984.
The origins of this car were unclear until very recently with some sources saying it was an unused circuit racing McLaren and others implying it was built by Lane from spares. Then Jeremy Jackson spotted in his notebooks that he'd seen Richard Shardlow's ex-Lane M10B in 1972 and had been told it was the car that Mike Walker had crashed in 1970. Also, Jeremy had observed the number 400-03 on Roger Ealand's car (said to be ex-Lane in one of Ealand's adverts) in Sep 1985.
Allen
#108
Duncan Fox
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Posted 13 August 2006 - 20:42
Thats good stuff Allen, yes thats the picture , I hadn't noticed your updates on your (unpublished!) page , I have been working from a set of printed pages. That accounts for another early surplus tub. I'll summerise my figures and get them to you , also with a few other comments.
Ian , it might interest you to know that Eatons M12 is somewhere in the picture , the ex Works M8 427 b/b Chev engine in the background was for his car.
Ian , it might interest you to know that Eatons M12 is somewhere in the picture , the ex Works M8 427 b/b Chev engine in the background was for his car.
#109
Exact10
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Posted 13 August 2006 - 20:45
Great to know Duncan, I think you mentioned earlier that Eatons car was fitted with its motor in the US, I'm not entirely sure that was true, I will call Ryan Falconer and find out when he built the motor for George. I'm not certain but I think the car left England complete.
I have tried Ralph Frisken's number
I have tried Ralph Frisken's number
#110
Allen Brown
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Posted 13 August 2006 - 20:56
Duncan
Do you have sufficient photos to compare this 1971 Roy Lane picture with Ean Pugh's car today. You say they are both early tubs - could they be the same car?
Allen
Do you have sufficient photos to compare this 1971 Roy Lane picture with Ean Pugh's car today. You say they are both early tubs - could they be the same car?
Allen
#111
Duncan Fox
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Posted 13 August 2006 - 21:22
I think so Allen, hadnt thought of that connection. Will do it this evening and post later. I am only missing modern photos of 400-07 the Richard Erye car, and would now like to see Barry Davidsons 400-04, I was going to ask Simon Hadfield to send me some. We will need to do some work on 400-06 also. This early/ late thing clarifies things somewhat (provided of course we have the photos to do it).
#112
Duncan Fox
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Posted 13 August 2006 - 21:31
NEWS FLASH!
Pugh's car has an LG gearbox . After a little messing with the briteness / contrast knobs I see a high shifter rod. We may be onto something, any more shots of Lanes car available?
Pugh's car has an LG gearbox . After a little messing with the briteness / contrast knobs I see a high shifter rod. We may be onto something, any more shots of Lanes car available?
#113
Allen Brown
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Posted 13 August 2006 - 22:21
I just have these two:Originally posted by Duncan Fox
... and would now like to see Barry Davidsons 400-04 ...
They were sent to me by Barry and I think show the car as it arrived at Simon's. Roy told Barry that this was a tub he acquired from Prophet at the end of 1970 and had been damaged. This implies Prophet had retubbed his car at some point in 1970 so the car that then goes on to Moore, Le Tissier, Rick etc and is now with Bruce Leeson uses the later tub and Barry's is built around the original tub. Or maybe. It's not clear whether Roy ever used this tub but, as far as Barry and I can determine, it looks like he didn't.
Allen
#114
Duncan Fox
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Posted 13 August 2006 - 23:09
Allen
Lovely looking car, however, its a late tub, just to confuse things.
Ian we havnt high jacked your thread ,we're just using it 'cause it seems to be a good place to "bludge a ride"so to speak.
Lovely looking car, however, its a late tub, just to confuse things.
Ian we havnt high jacked your thread ,we're just using it 'cause it seems to be a good place to "bludge a ride"so to speak.
#115
Exact10
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Posted 14 August 2006 - 00:01
Hi Duncan,
Don't you worry about me, let's keep this thread rolling with as much info, pics and stories about McLaren's M10's as we can, I'm learning tons and thoroughly enjoying it, as I said at the begining of the whole this whole story I was a Ferrari fan until I got my M10!
If anyone has an interest in Lotus Elevens and the resto I'm going to be doing on chassis 207, I'll start a new thread.........at present its in barn finds
Don't you worry about me, let's keep this thread rolling with as much info, pics and stories about McLaren's M10's as we can, I'm learning tons and thoroughly enjoying it, as I said at the begining of the whole this whole story I was a Ferrari fan until I got my M10!
If anyone has an interest in Lotus Elevens and the resto I'm going to be doing on chassis 207, I'll start a new thread.........at present its in barn finds
#116
Duncan Fox
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Posted 14 August 2006 - 21:14
Allen ,after comparing the photos, I have come to the conclusion that although there are similarities between them there is no one unusual or custom feature that is comman to the two. They are both early tubs , both have LG Hewlands, and both have low offset front wheels , They could be the same car, but the Pugh car would have had a major rebuild ,altering some of the Lane "fingerprints" I would love to see how the Lane nose is fitted.
A short discussion with Rick Hall would now be in order I think.
A short discussion with Rick Hall would now be in order I think.
#117
Duncan Fox
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Posted 14 August 2006 - 21:22
This from Howden via Jerry;
As far as I was concerned the car that David Prophet had
was always an M10A, but which
probably fell into no-mans land between 10A and 10B. I seem to recall that
David always entered it as an M10B.
The fact that it always had a LG gearbox,as was fitted to the 10A's,
reinforced that notion. Some years
ago I went to Donington Park to drive a few cars for a documentary series
on the development of the racing car.
One of those I drove was that ex-Prophet car, by now owned by Ean Pugh. It
is the only one quite like it.
Hope this helps
As far as I was concerned the car that David Prophet had
was always an M10A, but which
probably fell into no-mans land between 10A and 10B. I seem to recall that
David always entered it as an M10B.
The fact that it always had a LG gearbox,as was fitted to the 10A's,
reinforced that notion. Some years
ago I went to Donington Park to drive a few cars for a documentary series
on the development of the racing car.
One of those I drove was that ex-Prophet car, by now owned by Ean Pugh. It
is the only one quite like it.
Hope this helps
#118
Exact10
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Posted 09 September 2006 - 02:56
The monocoque has now gone to Ian Gordon whose shop is based very close to Tony's "Robin Engineering" on the circuit at Infineon.
Ian and Gary, both New Zealanders, will strip and reskin the base tub, removing the front bulkhead and surrounding sheets of aluminum, replace the lower floor section, straighten any dings and dents but keep in the accident damage repair made in 69 after the Sears crash.
I want to retain the used and raced appearence of the basic car, I really do want to keep it as though its come straight out of 69, fresh from the track, not over restored and sterile.
The LG500 Transmission has joined all of the suspension components with Tony and has been stripped ready for a check and reassembly with all new bearings. Apparently, so far the only damaged item is the ring and pinion.
Meanwhile on a visit to the Historics at Monterey I met Pete Lyons, a well known photographer and author, who's spent most of his life documenting the various races on the West Coast since the 60's.
I've bought some of Pete's great photographs in the past and I asked him this time whether he'd have anything in his archives showing my McLaren piloted by George Eaton.
Pete kindly gave me permission to show these pictures, they are, of course, copyright Pete Lyons and his work can be viewed here http://www.petelyons.com
Here are the results
Ian and Gary, both New Zealanders, will strip and reskin the base tub, removing the front bulkhead and surrounding sheets of aluminum, replace the lower floor section, straighten any dings and dents but keep in the accident damage repair made in 69 after the Sears crash.
I want to retain the used and raced appearence of the basic car, I really do want to keep it as though its come straight out of 69, fresh from the track, not over restored and sterile.
The LG500 Transmission has joined all of the suspension components with Tony and has been stripped ready for a check and reassembly with all new bearings. Apparently, so far the only damaged item is the ring and pinion.
Meanwhile on a visit to the Historics at Monterey I met Pete Lyons, a well known photographer and author, who's spent most of his life documenting the various races on the West Coast since the 60's.
I've bought some of Pete's great photographs in the past and I asked him this time whether he'd have anything in his archives showing my McLaren piloted by George Eaton.
Pete kindly gave me permission to show these pictures, they are, of course, copyright Pete Lyons and his work can be viewed here http://www.petelyons.com
Here are the results
#119
Vicuna
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Posted 09 September 2006 - 08:42
Originally posted by Exact10
The monocoque has now gone to Ian Gordon whose shop is based very close to Tony's "Robin Engineering" on the circuit at Infineon.
Ian and Gary, both New Zealanders, will strip and reskin the base tub, removing the front
I've bought some of Pete's great photographs in the past and I asked him this time whether he'd have anything in his archives showing my McLaren piloted by George Eaton.
Is Ian a Kiwi? I thought he was Australian
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#120
Leo D
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Posted 09 September 2006 - 09:44
I have been following this great thread since it first started.
What I have enjoyed most are the pictures of the "restoration process" so to speak...
I'm wondering if we might get to see some pics of the tub being re skinned etc.....
Whilst we're talking things McLaren 10A/B I was wondering if somewhere there is a current listing of all of the surviving cars, similar to the one Allen Brown has on his excellent site for the Lola T332.
Keep up the good work on this great project............
What I have enjoyed most are the pictures of the "restoration process" so to speak...
I'm wondering if we might get to see some pics of the tub being re skinned etc.....
Whilst we're talking things McLaren 10A/B I was wondering if somewhere there is a current listing of all of the surviving cars, similar to the one Allen Brown has on his excellent site for the Lola T332.
Keep up the good work on this great project............
#121
eldougo
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Posted 09 September 2006 - 09:45
Ian isan Aussie......
#122
Exact10
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Posted 09 September 2006 - 16:13
Thanks for the reply Leo,
I'll ask Ian and Gary to let me take some pics when they start to strip the tub, hopefully they'll be next month. Tony and Howden set me up with Ian Gordon, I'm really looking forward to him getting his teeth into it.
Have you seen the great thread, don't remember where on the internet, but its a resto of an early F5000 Crossle, the guy who did it made not only a great job of the work but also of documenting it. I've tried a search but can't find the page, can anybody post a link?
I'm also restoring a Lotus Eleven, bought form Howden Ganley (I really do owe Jerry Entin a beer)
I'll post a similar thread about that car too.
In the meantime both of the Porsche projects have been sold so that I can concentrate on the racers
Best Regards
Ian
PS I walked into that one Eldougo!
I'll ask Ian and Gary to let me take some pics when they start to strip the tub, hopefully they'll be next month. Tony and Howden set me up with Ian Gordon, I'm really looking forward to him getting his teeth into it.
Have you seen the great thread, don't remember where on the internet, but its a resto of an early F5000 Crossle, the guy who did it made not only a great job of the work but also of documenting it. I've tried a search but can't find the page, can anybody post a link?
I'm also restoring a Lotus Eleven, bought form Howden Ganley (I really do owe Jerry Entin a beer)
I'll post a similar thread about that car too.
In the meantime both of the Porsche projects have been sold so that I can concentrate on the racers
Best Regards
Ian
PS I walked into that one Eldougo!
#123
Allen Brown
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Posted 09 September 2006 - 23:47
Nearly there. Probably this month.Originally posted by Leo D
Whilst we're talking things McLaren 10A/B I was wondering if somewhere there is a current listing of all of the surviving cars, similar to the one Allen Brown has on his excellent site for the Lola T332.
#124
eldougo
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Posted 10 September 2006 - 00:26
You sure did.....,Don't forget i will be in town soon and hopefully see you on the 3rd or 4th.
October,or meet up at I.G. workshop.
#125
Exact10
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Posted 10 September 2006 - 01:47
Yep, be happy to meet you up there, you can look at the tub and look at the suspension and box at Tony's place
Give me a call nearer the time and we'll make arrangements
925 580 1947
Give me a call nearer the time and we'll make arrangements
925 580 1947
#126
Exact10
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Posted 11 September 2006 - 14:40
Does anyone have any contacts with the photographs of the late Alice Bixler, she was the photographer whose work was used in "Five minutes to green" by Frank Orr
Thanks
Thanks
#127
Leo D
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Posted 19 September 2006 - 12:19
Ian,
Looking forward to those photos...
Allen,
Looking forward to reading that page......
As far as I know, I think we only have one McLaren 10 A/B still living down under... anbody know for sure ??
Looking forward to those photos...
Allen,
Looking forward to reading that page......
As far as I know, I think we only have one McLaren 10 A/B still living down under... anbody know for sure ??
#128
Ray Bell
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Posted 19 September 2006 - 13:30
Originally posted by eldougo
Ian is an Aussie......
Is he an Aussie, is he, eh?
I always thought he was. Probably wouldn't have stayed with Max Stewart if he hadn't been, would he?
How many times I've heard old Andy talk about 'IG'...
#129
yasmin
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Posted 19 September 2006 - 13:54
Originally posted by Leo D
Ian,
Looking forward to those photos...
Allen,
Looking forward to reading that page......
As far as I know, I think we only have one McLaren 10 A/B still living down under... anbody know for sure ??
Only one I know of belongs to Max Warwick in melbourne
#130
Leo D
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Posted 19 September 2006 - 14:46
yasmin
Yes, Repco powered and it has not been seen since it had contact will the front straight wall at Sandown a few years back:(
Will it be seen again in November ???????
One can only hope.......
Only one I know of belongs to Max Warwick in melbourne
Yes, Repco powered and it has not been seen since it had contact will the front straight wall at Sandown a few years back:(
Will it be seen again in November ???????
One can only hope.......
#131
Leo D
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Posted 11 November 2006 - 15:13
Although not running, it was great to see the car there..... 
#132
Jerry Entin
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Posted 11 November 2006 - 15:57
Derek Bell in 1972 in Sid Taylor's Mk 10 McLaren at Elkhart Lake
photo lent site Tom Schultz copyright 2005 Tom Schultz.
#133
Allen Brown
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Posted 11 November 2006 - 16:55
Hi LeoOriginally posted by Leo D
Although not running, it was great to see the car there.....
Could I use your pictures on OldRacingCars.com?
Thanks
Allen
#134
Leo D
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Posted 12 November 2006 - 05:41
Allen
That's ok by me.... just drop me a PM to let me know what you want to do... I may have some other F5000 shots of interest to you.
That's ok by me.... just drop me a PM to let me know what you want to do... I may have some other F5000 shots of interest to you.
#135
Exact10
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Posted 14 November 2006 - 17:52
I am today going to put the M10 up for sale/trade.
I've spent the last year trying to amass all of the parts needed to finish it and of course trying to get someone to reskin the monocoque.
I have all new suspension, the uprights and gearbox are being rebuilt by Tony at Robin and everything else you can see on this site. I am very sad to have come to this decision but if anyone has an interesting sports racer that they'd like to trade in some way just give me a call 925 580 1947
Ian
I've spent the last year trying to amass all of the parts needed to finish it and of course trying to get someone to reskin the monocoque.
I have all new suspension, the uprights and gearbox are being rebuilt by Tony at Robin and everything else you can see on this site. I am very sad to have come to this decision but if anyone has an interesting sports racer that they'd like to trade in some way just give me a call 925 580 1947
Ian
#136
macoran
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Posted 14 November 2006 - 17:55
What a pity !! I've recently been busy copying a lot of your posts into a word file.
#138
Jerry Entin
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Posted 26 November 2006 - 07:16
George Eaton at Riverside in 1969. George finished 7th. George finished 3rd at Seattle with this car. This is the car Ian is restoring. George won the heat race at Elkhart Lake and was leading in the main when the engine broke.
photos by Gil Munz-scanned for site by Ike Smith
#139
Exact10
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Posted 26 November 2006 - 15:14
OK Guys, as you were, I'm keeping it!
I'm going to have it reskinned as soon as possible
Jerry Entin, as usual Take a bow!
Fantastic photographs and as normal Jerry is working behind the scenes to help me with everything.
Howden Ganley has been doing the same, tirelessly firing emails all over the place trying to help me out
Thanks to both of you
Ian
I'm going to have it reskinned as soon as possible
Jerry Entin, as usual Take a bow!
Fantastic photographs and as normal Jerry is working behind the scenes to help me with everything.
Howden Ganley has been doing the same, tirelessly firing emails all over the place trying to help me out
Thanks to both of you
Ian
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#140
macoran
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Posted 26 November 2006 - 15:21
Originally posted by Exact10
OK Guys, as you were, I'm keeping it!
#141
Allen Brown
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Posted 26 November 2006 - 16:54
I'm really pleased that you're keeping it Ian.
Enjoy it!
Allen
Enjoy it!
Allen
#142
NGSmith
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Posted 26 November 2006 - 20:32
Ian,
I am glad you reconsidered. You probably saved me a lot of money because I was going to give you a call to rescue it! Good luck with the project and we look forward to seeing it on the track.
Nick
I am glad you reconsidered. You probably saved me a lot of money because I was going to give you a call to rescue it! Good luck with the project and we look forward to seeing it on the track.
Nick
#143
275 GTB-4
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Posted 27 November 2006 - 06:59
Originally posted by Exact10
OK Guys, as you were, I'm keeping it!
I'm going to have it reskinned as soon as possible
Jerry Entin, as usual Take a bow!
Fantastic photographs and as normal Jerry is working behind the scenes to help me with everything.
Howden Ganley has been doing the same, tirelessly firing emails all over the place trying to help me out
Thanks to both of you
Ian
Congratulations Ian...do you know how to post videos???....let us see the first in-car you are happy with
#145
eldougo
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Posted 27 November 2006 - 07:42
Good news Ian( Exact10).....i do hope you get some help to finish this great project.
Cheers ....Eldougo.
#146
BarryD
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Posted 05 January 2007 - 23:37
Duncan, Allen, All,
If any of you guys still want to have a look at my M10b while it is at Simon Hadfield's, you'd better be quick as it is now virtually finished and will be coming Down South to me in a week or so.
Simon has done a beautiful job finishing the car off for me, and I'll post some pix when it gets here.
Happy new Year.
Barry Davison
If any of you guys still want to have a look at my M10b while it is at Simon Hadfield's, you'd better be quick as it is now virtually finished and will be coming Down South to me in a week or so.
Simon has done a beautiful job finishing the car off for me, and I'll post some pix when it gets here.
Happy new Year.
Barry Davison
#147
RA Historian
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Posted 05 January 2007 - 23:57
Pity that those mufflers have to be on it................
#148
BarryD
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Posted 06 January 2007 - 00:23
I agree, but ........
Sadly there are not too many places to play without them these days.
Better to use it with them, than just look at it without them.
BD
Sadly there are not too many places to play without them these days.
Better to use it with them, than just look at it without them.
BD
#149
Exact10
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Posted 24 January 2007 - 00:52
Back to the restoration!
Just today I collected the transmission from Tony at Robin, I must say he's made a lovely job of the box, it looks marvelous in it's correct oxide finish. He assures me it's as good inside as it is out. We had to replce the ring and pinion as well as the Hockey stick, I managed to get a great deal on the R and P from Chuck at Can Am cars.
Meanwhile, the monocoque is on its way to England, Kerry Adams is attending to this, he's also making a rollbar and selling me a good useable steering rack as my one is bent and craked. kerry came highly recommended by Howden Ganley who like Jerry Entin, Tony Nicholson, Giles Greenfield and Duncan Fox have remained as helpful and essential as ever.
Duncan is making a rear wing, an oil tank and some front wings (He's sharpening his pencil as I write)
Just today I collected the transmission from Tony at Robin, I must say he's made a lovely job of the box, it looks marvelous in it's correct oxide finish. He assures me it's as good inside as it is out. We had to replce the ring and pinion as well as the Hockey stick, I managed to get a great deal on the R and P from Chuck at Can Am cars.
Meanwhile, the monocoque is on its way to England, Kerry Adams is attending to this, he's also making a rollbar and selling me a good useable steering rack as my one is bent and craked. kerry came highly recommended by Howden Ganley who like Jerry Entin, Tony Nicholson, Giles Greenfield and Duncan Fox have remained as helpful and essential as ever.
Duncan is making a rear wing, an oil tank and some front wings (He's sharpening his pencil as I write)
#150
Exact10
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Posted 20 May 2007 - 05:23
The monocoque is well underway, Eamon Fullalove aka "Chalkie" is doing his stuff in England and as you can see he's taken the old tub all the way down to the last rivets.
I've also included a pic that shows the first colour, hidden under the various panels where it was originally McLaren orange.
I've also included a pic that shows the first colour, hidden under the various panels where it was originally McLaren orange.
