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Formula Two - the iconic proving ground

Started by Twin Window , Sep 01 2006 23:13

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186 replies to this topic

#101 Alan Cox

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Posted 09 October 2006 - 20:50

Alex Ribiero - Donington '78

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Piercarlo Ghinzani - '78

All from Donington 1977
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Tiff Needell - Fred Opert Chevron

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Ingo Hoffman's Ralt makes ready

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Elio de Angelis

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In the Martini garage

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The start - Giacomelli leads from Patrese

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Winner Giacomelli, his March wearing '78-style bodywork

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Pironi leads Arnoux

#102 Barry Boor

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Posted 10 October 2006 - 06:57

I have some F.2 pictures from the same year as Alan's.

Rather than post them here, this is the link to the F.2 page of my website:

http://62.149.36.46/...cgi-bin/two.htm

#103 rdmotorsport

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Posted 10 October 2006 - 11:06

some wonderful shots,many thanks,

Rodney

#104 Rudy Dingemans

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Posted 11 October 2006 - 01:36

Gentlemen,

For those of you still interested in old F2, I'm happy to report that we're still working on an F2 simulation for Grand Prix Legends.

It isn't finished yet, but we have a basic working .exe program, based on the 1967 wingless F2 specs. It's very driveable. :smoking:

Laptimes are roughly in the ballpark of the 'real' F2 back then (2:12 at Reims, 1:27.x at Zandvoort).

And yes, you WILL be able to drive the Matra MS5 that Jacky Ickx used in the 67 German GP to shock the GP establisment ;)

We're only a small team, and could use any help though.

Cockpit photos, car data,... and especially input from people who drove the real cars.

I can be contacted at rtech@home.nl for more info or any input you might have ;)

Oh, and 67 F3 is in the works, too. Like F2, it'll be basic, but very driveable. And we're (re)modeling the real cars.

Regards, Rudy
(GPLRank: -27)

#105 Michael Henderson

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Posted 21 November 2006 - 00:39

Hi folks:

A bit late to contribute, but putting toe in water for first time . . .

If you look back to the original post on 1 Sept 06 by Twin Window, you'll see the works March 722 with Niki Lauda. The same car, with the later less attractive shovel nose, was posted by Alan Cox on 3 Sept 06.

The car is chassis 722-5, and I now have it here in Sydney. It's a blast to drive, and competitive in the F2/Atlantic grids we usually run here. (I also have an RT4.) I can try to post pix if anyone's interested - it still looks just the same.

Michael.

#106 Andrew Fellowes

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Posted 21 November 2006 - 01:44

Trust I am the first to welcome you here and a privilege to do so. Your vast experience will be much appreciated.

Andrew

Edit, hum, -dont think you should get away that easily,

http://www.cams.com....t&ObjectID=6314

#107 Bondurand

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Posted 21 November 2006 - 09:10

Originally posted by Barry Boor
I have some F.2 pictures from the same year as Alan's.

Rather than post them here, this is the link to the F.2 page of my website:

http://62.149.36.46/...cgi-bin/two.htm

7 different makes in a single F2 race ! I did not remember such a diversity ! thanks Barry !

#108 Allen Brown

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Posted 21 November 2006 - 10:35

Formula 2 fans may be interested to know that the F2 area on OldRacingcars.com is now live.

And I'll take your seven and raise you two. There were 9 different makes starting the F2 race at Hockenheim 3 Oct 1971: Brabham, Chevron, Lola, Lotus, Maco, March, McLaren, Pygmée and Tecno!

Not quite as impressive as the 10 at the Hockenheim F5000 race three weeks earlier or the 11 at the Brands Hatch F/Atlantic race four weeks later or even the 17 at the Pocono USAC race the previous July but still rather impressive compared with modern motor racing.

Come to think of it, if I'm going to continue my digression round the world of motor racing in 1971, there were also 12 at the F1/F5000 Questor GP and at the USAC Road Racing Seafair 200, a peak of 10 in the US F5000 series race at Riverside and at the Australian GP, and another 10 at the end of the season back at Brands for the "Victory Race".

You can't fault 1971 for variety!

Allen

#109 Twin Window

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Posted 21 November 2006 - 11:25

Originally posted by Allen Brown

You can't fault 1971 for variety!

Indeed; and add to that the fact that in the UK there were no less than six F1 races...!

The Race of Champions at Brands, the Silverstone International Trophy, the Oulton Park Easter (Spring?) International, the British GP at Silverstone, the Oulton Park Gold Cup and the Victory Race at Brands.

#110 Allen Brown

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Posted 21 November 2006 - 11:32

And we may soon be down to one every other year

#111 ian senior

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Posted 21 November 2006 - 11:41

Originally posted by Allen Brown
Formula 2 fans may be interested to know that the F2 area on OldRacingcars.com is now live.

And I'll take your seven and raise you two. There were 9 different makes starting the F2 race at Hockenheim 3 Oct 1971: Brabham, Chevron, Lola, Lotus, Maco, March, McLaren, Pygmée and Tecno!

Not quite as impressive as the 10 at the Hockenheim F5000 race three weeks earlier or the 11 at the Brands Hatch F/Atlantic race four weeks later or even the 17 at the Pocono USAC race the previous July but still rather impressive compared with modern motor racing.

Come to think of it, if I'm going to continue my digression round the world of motor racing in 1971, there were also 12 at the F1/F5000 Questor GP and at the USAC Road Racing Seafair 200, a peak of 10 in the US F5000 series race at Riverside and at the Australian GP, and another 10 at the end of the season back at Brands for the "Victory Race".

You can't fault 1971 for variety!

Allen

Indeed. Does anyone have any details on the Maco 271? I have the faintest of recollections of seeing a picture showing a wedgy looking car, but other than that, in true Manuel-esque fashion, I know nothing.

#112 Frank de Jong

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Posted 21 November 2006 - 11:47

You mean this one?

#113 ian senior

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Posted 21 November 2006 - 11:57

Originally posted by Frank de Jong
You mean this one?

That's it, Frank - thanks very much!

I wonder if it was front or side radiatored? There appears to be an outlet on top of the front boodywork, suggesting a front rad, as does the "not quite to ground level" profile of the nose, and that side cowling looks a bit small to house a radiator - does it cover an oil cooler?

#114 Mallory Dan

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Posted 21 November 2006 - 12:01

There was also a Maco 278 IIRC, Michael Korten ?? I think it only came out for the German races, without much success. Anyone got any pics?

#115 ian senior

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Posted 21 November 2006 - 12:29

Originally posted by Mallory Dan
There was also a Maco 278 IIRC, Michael Korten ?? I think it only came out for the German races, without much success. Anyone got any pics?

Quite a long series of F3 cars too, staring with the F371 (from which the F2 car was probably derived). See www.f3history.co.uk for more details of them.

#116 Allen Brown

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Posted 21 November 2006 - 15:12

Originally posted by ian senior
... the F371 (from which the F2 car was probably derived)...

Or the other way around?

#117 ian senior

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Posted 21 November 2006 - 15:56

Going a bit off topic, have a look at the entry list for the F3 race supporting the 1972 British GP - 11 different makes of car entered. And that wasn't too unusual for those days.

#118 Jerome

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Posted 21 November 2006 - 16:17

Funny to see Ghinzani in a F2 race... in 1977! He entered Formula One in 1984, didn't he? How did he achieve that? Sponsor? Or what?

#119 ensign14

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Posted 21 November 2006 - 16:24

Peter Charles' F1 debut was in 1981 (qualifying an Osella, which had been pretty much beyond Gabbiani, Francia and Guerra) as a replacement for the unfortunate Miguel Angel...he was back for good from 1983, again with the real Enzo.

#120 Mallory Dan

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Posted 21 November 2006 - 17:37

Originally posted by Jerome.Inen
Funny to see Ghinzani in a F2 race... in 1977! He entered Formula One in 1984, didn't he? How did he achieve that? Sponsor? Or what?

He was in F3 in 77 wasn't he. Won the Euroseries quite easily in a March, and beat some good drivers in better (??) cars, ie Ralts/Chevrons. Did he have 'special' engines I wonder? In a standard March 782 he never really shone did he.

#121 Jerome

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Posted 21 November 2006 - 17:40

Never the less he was a clever driver. He once qualified 14th with the Osella because of a little tyretrick... I believe in 1985... can't be too sure. Oh my memory!

#122 John-w

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Posted 26 November 2006 - 15:29

Hello,

can anybody help me to find DVD's or videos from formula 2 races
between 1967 and 1970. I am searching specially material about
the BMW formula 2 cars.
Click here for my BMW F2 homepage:

http://www.john-w.de/bmwf2/

thanks
John-w

#123 Twin Window

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 00:29

I was digging around today and came across some more of my early-'80s pics, and felt inclined to contort myself into the position needed in order to mate my lappie with the scanner...

Mainly the usual culprits, I'm afraid!

Posted Image

#124 jadb1

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Posted 06 December 2006 - 00:36

Suart: Very pretty the photographies

I look for but photos of the F2 from year 1971 1979

Greetings and thanks Alejandro

#125 jadb1

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Posted 11 December 2006 - 12:35

Alan:
Excelent the photos!!!!!!
Tanks Alejandro

#126 Mallory Dan

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 14:24

Blimey thats a rare one there TW. 1st time I've ever seen a pic of the Devaney 'B48B'. Must have been taken early in the race, as he didn't last long. And a Sanremo 782 behind DW, Oscar Pedersoli perhaps?

#127 Twin Window

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 14:50

Originally posted by Mallory Dan

Blimey thats a rare one there TW.

They're AC's pics, Dan!

Looks more like Alberto Columbo to me; Pedersoli had some white on his lid.

#128 ensign14

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 15:05

What did Pedersoli's look like? Never seen it.

#129 Twin Window

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Posted 12 December 2006 - 15:15

I'll see if I can find something to scan later doors.

#130 pmbboy

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 19:15

F2 cars ran for many years in South Africa and provided very close racing
Here is a picture of my good friend and boss at the time Trevor Van Rooyen in a Maurer what a lovely car and the screaming Mazda rotary engine. Posted Image

#131 bigrog

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 19:35

Originally posted by pmbboy
F2 cars ran for many years in South Africa and provided very close racing
Here is a picture of my good friend and boss at the time Trevor Van Rooyen in a Maurer what a lovely car and the screaming Mazda rotary engine.

I have to say that the Mazda rotary engine was a delight to hear before silencers in South Africa. Unfortunately, it was muted when they had to run "Supertrapps". How much quicker were those SA Mrotary engined F2s compared to 'real' European F2s.

#132 rdmotorsport

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Posted 07 January 2007 - 19:53

To answer that they was not,although they sounded wonderful a good Bmw F2 engine would have been quicker.
I worked in RSA with Paul Haigh who still manages JLR today running a RT4 Ralt and often thought if the governing bodies would have allowed it to run one of the quicker boys e.g.Sheckter(I),Wayne Taylor or Tony Martin in a European round how would they have faired but the Mazda was rated at 2.2 litres(how because the rule was always piston size times swept volume and the rotary as no pistons!) against the 2 litre F2 engines.

Rodney Dodson

#133 Fat Boy

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Posted 08 January 2007 - 05:21

Originally posted by Twin Window

Eje Elgh gets plumbed-in to the Maurer

I'm fairly certain that the man doing the plumbing is Brian Murphy. He's a Brit that worked for Maurer in the late 70's/early 80's. I worked for him years later and he had a lot of good F2 stories.

Incidently, I've asked about this man on the forum in the past. If anyone knows his where-abouts, I'd like to drop him a line.

#134 pmbboy

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Posted 09 January 2007 - 22:40

Originally posted by rdmotorsport
To answer that they was not,although they sounded wonderful a good Bmw F2 engine would have been quicker.
I worked in RSA with Paul Haigh who still manages JLR today running a RT4 Ralt and often thought if the governing bodies would have allowed it to run one of the quicker boys e.g.Sheckter(I),Wayne Taylor or Tony Martin in a European round how would they have faired but the Mazda was rated at 2.2 litres(how because the rule was always piston size times swept volume and the rotary as no pistons!) against the 2 litre F2 engines.

Rodney Dodson

Rodney, I built the engines for Trevor during the seasons 81-84 and I don,t think any one agreed on how to rate the rotary engine. The std road car RX2 capella was rated at 1100 but was that one rotor or two and this is the basic engine we used. The std engine was heaverly modified and was certainly very powerfull if somewhat thirsty. I seem to recall that these engines developed around 280 -290 BHP which was very good for a modded road engine, when we were allowed to use the racing rotors and rotor housings this pushed the power over 300 so I think it would certainly not be put to shame by the full spec F2 engines. great days all the same 25years ago.
cheers
peter
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#135 rdmotorsport

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Posted 10 January 2007 - 10:03

In that case Peter we must have met at one stage, although we never touched the engines these came from a chap called Taylor a wonderful person to know he looked after our engines and the ones used by Wayne Taylor.

#136 pmbboy

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Posted 13 January 2007 - 23:17

Originally posted by rdmotorsport
In that case Peter we must have met at one stage, although we never touched the engines these came from a chap called Taylor a wonderful person to know he looked after our engines and the ones used by Wayne Taylor.

Rodney, that would have been Roger Taylor a very good engine tuner of all types of engines.
Is this a Ralt or a Lant driven here by Wayne Taylor.
The Lant being a copy of the Ralt and built by Norman Thursby and Mel Larner.
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#137 roger saretzki

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 09:51

MERLYN build mainly formula ford`s , f3`s , sports and only a few f2`s .
are there any pics and/or pictures from the MERLYN f2 cars availible ?
does anybody know were they are now ?

regards from germany , roger

#138 rdmotorsport

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 12:45

Dear peter,

Roger Taylor it was, a very interesting chap to which I enjoyed his company not a bad engine man either, I think later his son or sons went into racing.

The Wayne Taylor picture I believe that is his RT4.

Rodney Dodson

#139 Hieronymus

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 15:06

Originally posted by rdmotorsport
Dear peter,

Roger Taylor it was, a very interesting chap to which I enjoyed his company not a bad engine man either, I think later his son or sons went into racing.

Son Anthony Taylor is South African Production Car champion.

#140 rdmotorsport

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 17:32

Peter,

So what does Taylor Snr do these days?

#141 Twin Window

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Posted 14 January 2007 - 18:26

Grand-Am.

#142 Peter Morley

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Posted 06 March 2007 - 14:18

Originally posted by Kerry Thackwell

Speaking to my brother Michael this morning he has asked me to send out the following message that probably sums up why he moved on from a sport he did love. At present he is running a second hand skateboard / surf shop on the south east coast of England, not a Pub as so often quoted. Surfing, Skateboarding and Free Climbing in the French and Swiss Alps when finance permits, when not indulging in his above loves he is smoking a hell of a lot of good weed and enjoying life as usual. Broke but happy. Love the pictures and will be showing him a few of them when i get back from my next stint as deckhand on English Crabbers.

Kerry Thackwell

Glad to hear he is enjoying himself, I enjoyed his company many years ago when I was working in F3000.
Whne you next speak to Mike you could suggest he tries power kiting (with sur or mountain boards or buggies) I think he'd love it.

#143 Kerry Thackwell

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Posted 06 March 2007 - 14:28

Originally posted by David M. Kane
Boy in the 2nd shot Mike Thackwell looks like he wasn't enjoying his racing at all! Was the pressure getting to him? I never saw him race; but I understand he had a lot of natural ability.
Was he too laid back, not ambitious enough...why did he walk away?

Speaking to my brother Michael this morning he asked me to send in a reply, I hope this may be of help in answering why he moved on from Motor Racing, a sport we as a family loved. He is at present running a secondhand skateboard / surf shop on the South Coast of England, not a Pub as often quoted. He spends his time surfing, skateboarding and free climbing in the French and Swiss Alps when finance allows as well as smoking a hell of a lot of good weed ( His words not mine ) and in general enjoying life. To see him paddle out in out of control big waves by himself or to have a weeklong session smoking primo weed with Mick while discussing world affairs is to understand why he had to move on. Hoping the above sheds some light on my brother who is also the best crew i know. The pictures of Mick on this site I will be showing to him as soon as I return from my next stint as a deckhand on Crabbers in the English Channel.

Kerry Thackwell

#144 macoran

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Posted 06 March 2007 - 18:22

Originally posted by Twin Window
I'll see if I can find something to scan later doors .

This Dutch Joe Bloggs is learning all the time !

#145 Mallory Dan

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Posted 13 March 2007 - 15:42

What about that pic Alan of the lady who presented the prize to the winner of the 81 or 82 Donny F2 race. Well worthy of a wider audience...

#146 ian senior

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Posted 14 March 2007 - 09:07

Originally posted by Alan Cox

I believe that this is the lady to whom Dan refers - I think her name is Nina Hartley, and she was Rick Wakeman's partner at the time. I believe she had thespian tendencies, and appeared in a number of films aimed at "the discerning gentleman".

I don't know whether this has anything to do with "The iconic proving ground"....

If it's Rick W's other 'alf, that would be Nina Carter. Once upon a time she used to appear on page 3 of a certain newspaper.

#147 Allen Brown

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Posted 14 March 2007 - 10:27

That would make more sense. Here's Nina Carter on IMDB, or Mrs Wakeman as she's been better known for over 20 years. I'm not going to post a link to Nina Hartley's bio on IMDB because she's really not the same sort of sweet but slightly misguided young lady as Miss Carter.

Alan, I'm appalled that you've even heard of Nina Hartley!

Allen

#148 Stephen W

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Posted 14 March 2007 - 11:41

Originally posted by Allen Brown
I'm appalled that you've even heard of Nina Hartley!

Allen [/B]

Didn't she write a book on fly-fishing?

:wave:

#149 andrewmacdonald

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Posted 06 May 2010 - 19:34

The give-away that this is a Lant driven by Wayne Taylor and not a Ralt is the Lant emblem to the left of Rack-Rite Shelving on the sidepods and that Rack-Rite was owned by Mel Lahner who build the cars

In that case Peter we must have met at one stage, although we never touched the engines these came from a chap called Taylor a wonderful person to know he looked after our engines and the ones used by Wayne Taylor.

#150 arttidesco

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Posted 09 May 2010 - 13:14

Last night I was going through some Formula 2 slides from Silverstone 1979 with RJC when we stumbled on this one, we both agreed that the helmet in the #13 looks like Ian Flux but were surprised to find that at http://www.formula2.net/F279_2.htm the #13 is shown as being owned and driven by Davina Galica, which would tie up since she usually race in #13 cars but we both believed with an all white helmet.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

#13, Ian, Flux (????), #8, Stephen, South, March 792's, Silverstone, Formula 2, 1979, Ralph, Juergen, Colmar

The #13 seems to have been entered by and for Davina in European F2 sporadically after Silverstone according to the formula2,net website not at Thruxton but then at the Nurburgring and then again at Donington ? Can any one put us to rights what was happening and who was driving and who the entrant was ?

Edited by arttidesco, 10 May 2010 - 23:46.

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Formula Two - the iconic proving ground

#101 Alan Cox

#102 Barry Boor

#103 rdmotorsport

#104 Rudy Dingemans

#105 Michael Henderson

#106 Andrew Fellowes

#107 Bondurand

#108 Allen Brown

#109 Twin Window

#110 Allen Brown

#111 ian senior

#112 Frank de Jong

#113 ian senior

#114 Mallory Dan

#115 ian senior

#116 Allen Brown

#117 ian senior

#118 Jerome

#119 ensign14

#120 Mallory Dan

#121 Jerome

#122 John-w

#123 Twin Window

#124 jadb1

#125 jadb1

#126 Mallory Dan

#127 Twin Window

#128 ensign14

#129 Twin Window

#130 pmbboy

#131 bigrog

#132 rdmotorsport

#133 Fat Boy

#134 pmbboy

#135 rdmotorsport

#136 pmbboy

#137 roger saretzki

#138 rdmotorsport

#139 Hieronymus

#140 rdmotorsport

#141 Twin Window

#142 Peter Morley

#143 Kerry Thackwell

#144 macoran

#145 Mallory Dan

#146 ian senior

#147 Allen Brown

#148 Stephen W

#149 andrewmacdonald

#150 arttidesco

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