I went to the Goodwod Revival with Ron Tauranac a few years ago, and we came across Perry McCarthy in the assembly area, shortly after "Flat Out, Flat Broke" was published. As you would imagine, Perry McCarthy was a pretty engaging personality, and someone for whom Ron had a great deal of affection.
Obviously, RST has had a key role in the development of many young hotshoes down the years. I asked him once which drivers he really rated (apart from Sir Jack, of course...).
His answer was delivered without hesitation - Roberto Moreno.
Roberto Moreno
Started by
Cirrus
, Sep 07 2006 17:59
129 replies to this topic
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#2
bigears
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Posted 08 September 2006 - 11:35
I would vouch for that especially his superb drive at the 1987 Birmingham Superprix for the F3000 race as he started from last (after stalling at pole position) and stormed through the field to finish 2nd.
#3
Mallory Dan
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Posted 08 September 2006 - 12:44
From afar I always rated Moreno. Why did it never really happen for him, lack of someone pushing him perhaps, or maybe at the very top level he didn't quite have it mentally ??
#4
ensign14
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Posted 08 September 2006 - 13:14
He was about Lester Piggott sized. I wonder whether the extra g forces and race distances in F1 were too much for his physical stature. He had success in CART but that was with lots of yellows and pitstops giving him a break.Originally posted by Mallory Dan
From afar I always rated Moreno. Why did it never really happen for him, lack of someone pushing him perhaps, or maybe at the very top level he didn't quite have it mentally ??
#5
MCS
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Posted 08 September 2006 - 13:34
Remembering his exploits in Formula Ford, I can recall his first test at Mallory Park where he arrived on his own with his Royale RP26 and, with his stopwatch tank-taped to his dashboard, off he went!
#6
petefenelon
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Posted 08 September 2006 - 14:32
I think to some extent it's because Roberto's just too nice a guy for some of the dubious political moves in F1, and I don't think he ever recovered properly (in F1 career terms) from being booted out of Benetton in '91...
#7
Andretti Fan
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Posted 08 September 2006 - 15:12
Moreno may not have achived ultimate success on the track, but no one can dispute that he's a great, talented driver, and one of the really great characters to appear in motor racing in the last few decades. I've always loved the underdogs best.....and he's always been one of my favorites.
#8
Cirrus
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Posted 08 September 2006 - 17:45
When Roberto first came to the UK, he spoke hardly any English. Nelson Piquet arranged for him to keep his car in a leaky shed at the Ralt factory, and Ron took him under his wing and gave him a lot of useful advice. When my dad and I heard that he was going racing alone, we offered to help run him at a few races. The first time we went was to Silverstone GP Circuit, where he broke the lap record, having slept in his ancient VW tow car. Unfortunately, some dodgy setup advice from a future world champion ruined his chances at the soaking wet '79 FF Festival, but the talent he posessed was obvious.
When he finished second to Piquet in the Japanese Grand Prix, I really thought he was going to finally break through, but sadly it was not to be.
I really hope he does GP Masters.......
When he finished second to Piquet in the Japanese Grand Prix, I really thought he was going to finally break through, but sadly it was not to be.
I really hope he does GP Masters.......
#9
petefenelon
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Posted 08 September 2006 - 20:27
Originally posted by Cirrus
When he finished second to Piquet in the Japanese Grand Prix, I really thought he was going to finally break through, but sadly it was not to be.
I really hope he does GP Masters.......
He and Boesel are apparently down for next year.
Roberto is one of the nicest guys I've ever met in racing. A brilliant ambassador for the sport - erudite, witty, immensely knowledgeable, ego-free and self-deprecating. And he's still very quick!
He will be a brilliant asset for GPM.
#10
Twin Window
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Posted 08 September 2006 - 20:34
Hear, hear to all of the above.
I interviewed Pupo at Daytona last year, but I can't link to it...
Bugger.
(I've split this from the McCarthy autobiog thread, as they're - rightly - two different subjects.)
I interviewed Pupo at Daytona last year, but I can't link to it...
Bugger.
(I've split this from the McCarthy autobiog thread, as they're - rightly - two different subjects.)
#11
Alan Cox
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Posted 08 September 2006 - 20:50
I would echo all of the foregoing sentiments. He is a great driver, and he soldiered on in various formulae just because the cards didn't fall his way. I remember him in FF and F3, and will have to post some of the vast pile of photos I have of him from those days.
One to be going on with,,,,
One to be going on with,,,,
#12
subh
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Posted 08 September 2006 - 23:10
How about some insight into his famed fuel-saving prowess?
#13
MoMurray
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Posted 09 September 2006 - 00:15
And wouldn't that be our old buddy Tommy Byrne chasing...?
Mo.
Mo.
#14
eldougo
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Posted 09 September 2006 - 01:12
........1981 Calder AGP. Roberto first GP win.
Our winners trophy and a happy mechanic (eldougo).
Edited by eldougo, 16 March 2011 - 08:17.
#15
Vicuna
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Posted 09 September 2006 - 02:46
Firm Kiwi favourite.
His 2nd to Piquet for Benetton was clear proof of what we suspected.
His 2nd to Piquet for Benetton was clear proof of what we suspected.
#16
Cirrus
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Posted 09 September 2006 - 08:23
I loved the story about the trick he played on Ron at Enna ("87?). The Ralt F3000 team had been having a disappointing season, frequently being quick and leading races, but retiring for silly reasons. It finally appeared to be going right in Sicily, Roberto had built up a large lead, and seemed to be cruising to the flag. However, the Ralt team were horrified when he appeared on the last lap, coasting, apparently out of fuel. He waited, and waited, and then at the last moment, when the second placed car appeared in his mirrors, stuck it in gear and floored it.
Ron apparently went ballistic.....
Ron apparently went ballistic.....
#17
eldougo
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Posted 09 September 2006 - 09:39
That sure would not register on the RON fun scale of racing.Only after he would relax (just a little).
and have a wee drop.;)
#18
Huw Jadvantich
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Posted 09 September 2006 - 14:49
The most compelling argument for his inability to hold a GP seat was that he was a nice guy.
Lack of lack of giulle (sp?) means lack of seat.
Lack of lack of giulle (sp?) means lack of seat.
#19
gbl
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Posted 09 September 2006 - 19:05
So far he is still busy doing the development of the new ChampCar
http://www.champcarw...le.asp?ID=10858
http://www.champcarw...le.asp?ID=10858
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#20
Mark A
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Posted 09 September 2006 - 20:41
Met him very briefly at Rockingham at the very 1st Champ Car race (in recent times) in the UK.
Seemed a very decent bloke and was happy to sign autographs, however he was driving a Visteon sponsored car and I was a Visteon employee at the time, so that probably helped ;)
Seemed a very decent bloke and was happy to sign autographs, however he was driving a Visteon sponsored car and I was a Visteon employee at the time, so that probably helped ;)
#21
p6owner
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Posted 09 September 2006 - 20:46
perhaps failing to qualify on his debut in Holland 1982 caused a problem for him? (too much too soon perhaps but these things stick in the minds of team managers)
#22
rdmotorsport
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Posted 13 September 2006 - 17:57
Roberto posessed a wonderful talent in various Formulaes but feel if it wasn t for Graham Warren of Bromley Motorsport and GJ Motorsport perhaps Roberto may have ended his career much earlier and with less glory.
Rodney Dodson.
Rodney Dodson.
#23
David M. Kane
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Posted 13 September 2006 - 18:15
I notice Champ Car is using him to sort out their car, so his abilities are much respected here in the States.
#24
Arjan de Roos
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Posted 23 April 2007 - 07:07
This week dutch football legend Johan Cruijf turns 60. His career was long and I guess this has all to do with great skill and technique. Same must apply to Dennis Bergkamp.
But last night I was quite amused to see a famous name back in the ChampCar race. Didnt that guy try to qualify a Lotus for the 1981 Dutch GP? Puppo was back in the Imperial Capital Bank car as a sub of course...
But last night I was quite amused to see a famous name back in the ChampCar race. Didnt that guy try to qualify a Lotus for the 1981 Dutch GP? Puppo was back in the Imperial Capital Bank car as a sub of course...
#25
Roberto Manzolla
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Posted 23 April 2007 - 07:28
Houston this weekend.
Copyright on the pic.
Copyright on the pic.
#26
Jerome
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Posted 23 April 2007 - 07:42
Roberto Moreno, Teo Fabi... both excellent drivers, often more talentend than teammates who went much further... and I have the sneaky suspicion it had everything to look with they way they looked... It is a horrible thing to feel, but I have always had the impression that if you're bald, small, and not glamorous looking, the F1 world just does not take you seriously. (And was Magnussen not put in the chiller by Stewart partly because he didn't look right?)
#27
Paul Parker
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Posted 23 April 2007 - 11:44
You are talking about marketing Jerome. Outright talent alone has not been enough to make it in F1 for at least 25 years now, with rare exception.
#28
ensign14
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Posted 23 April 2007 - 12:15
Paul Tracy has had a decent enough career despite looking like a fat trainee accountant on a stag night. The comparative failures of Moreno and Fabi are surely more to do with being beaten by a disenchanted Piquet and Berger and Warwick and DNQing in a Lotus?
#29
Pat Clarke
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Posted 23 April 2007 - 12:32
Hi all,
I hadn't seen this thread before today.
As I have mentioned before, I talk regularly with Ron T. I recall a while ago we were talking about Roberto Moreno. I think he may have had a bit of a thing going with one of Ron's daughters at the time.
When I asked Ron why Moreno never really broke through, his simple reply was "He came from the wrong side of the tracks", meaning, of course, he wasn't wealthy like most of the other Brazilians.
Cheers
Pat
I hadn't seen this thread before today.
As I have mentioned before, I talk regularly with Ron T. I recall a while ago we were talking about Roberto Moreno. I think he may have had a bit of a thing going with one of Ron's daughters at the time.
When I asked Ron why Moreno never really broke through, his simple reply was "He came from the wrong side of the tracks", meaning, of course, he wasn't wealthy like most of the other Brazilians.
Cheers
Pat
#30
Jerome
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Posted 23 April 2007 - 12:34
I do not know. I like Gerhard Berger, but he was and is not better than Teo Fabi. Still Berger walked away from the Benetton time together with a place at Ferrari and McLaren. Ofcourse looks are not deciding. But alas, the image thing has its big influence. Marketing, indeed.
Paul Tracy is an American driver. American racing has a whole different set of rules than European marketing.
On topic: Roberto Moreno is a very talented guy...
Paul Tracy is an American driver. American racing has a whole different set of rules than European marketing.
On topic: Roberto Moreno is a very talented guy...
#31
ensign14
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Posted 23 April 2007 - 13:06
That's not enough, though, is it? With maybe fifty others at any one time...at least he had a decent enough Grand Prix career, compare his with that of Geoff Lees, who also had a one-shot deal with Lotus but did a damn sight more with it.Originally posted by Jerome.Inen
On topic: Roberto Moreno is a very talented guy...
#32
312B
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Posted 23 April 2007 - 13:27
Steve Matchett seems a bit disparaging about Roberto
Certainly you get the impression especially after the 1-2 with Piquet that he felt Moreno was too overwhelmed emotionally with the result and not as fit as he should have been
As for Teo Fabi, I was looking back at reviews for the end of 1987 and the general concescus seems to have been that he fell out of favour with the team during that season compared to Boutsen. He ran Berger pretty close in terms of pace all through 1986 even if he had less luck with reliability so I'm not sure what happened in 87
Certainly you get the impression especially after the 1-2 with Piquet that he felt Moreno was too overwhelmed emotionally with the result and not as fit as he should have been
As for Teo Fabi, I was looking back at reviews for the end of 1987 and the general concescus seems to have been that he fell out of favour with the team during that season compared to Boutsen. He ran Berger pretty close in terms of pace all through 1986 even if he had less luck with reliability so I'm not sure what happened in 87
#33
Ross Stonefeld
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Posted 23 April 2007 - 14:11
Originally posted by ensign14
Paul Tracy has had a decent enough career despite looking like a fat trainee accountant on a stag night.
...in Champ Car, where both Moreno and Fabi had success.
#34
Paul Parker
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Posted 23 April 2007 - 14:27
Another problem with drivers like Moreno who lacked the appropriate slick, sophisticated image is that they oft times end up in a team with a star driver who demands and receives first choice on anything and everything from testing to equipment. Even when they are plainly past their best.
Thus number two looks inferior when in fact he/she is not. This has been true of many over the years including Moreno.
Thus number two looks inferior when in fact he/she is not. This has been true of many over the years including Moreno.
#35
ensign14
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Posted 23 April 2007 - 14:53
Nothing like Tracy's. And I don't think a failure to have film star looks prevented Mansell or Prost in F1 or Schumacher or a bunch of others in F1. Moreno was held back cos by the time he got his hands on a Grand Prix winning car he never looked like a Grand Prix winner. Fisichella syndrome.Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
...in Champ Car, where both Moreno and Fabi had success.
#36
Dave Ware
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Posted 23 April 2007 - 20:41
In one of his books (sorry, I forget which one), Steve Matchett says that he didn't think Moreno had the phyiscal strength or stammina to cope with F1. Matchett was a Beneton mechanic at the time so I expect his information would be pretty accurate.
At least in CART, he did seem to be well regarded by a great many team owners. They didn't call him super-sub for nothing.
At least in CART, he did seem to be well regarded by a great many team owners. They didn't call him super-sub for nothing.
#37
Jerome
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Posted 23 April 2007 - 20:54
To be quite clear: you don't need filmstar looks to be succesfull in F1. Lauda looked like a rat, even before his accident, Prost had and has a nose that's bent out of shape, Gilles Villeneuve looked like a choirboy, and Jacques... well.
But there are certain appearances that just don't make it easy for you in certain sports. Being small as a racing driver? Okay. Handy, even. But bald? Pale blue eyes? And it is not just racing. Take Davydenko. He's probably the best player in the world after Federer and Nadal. He looks like a Tsjernobyl victim. Pale. Bald. 'Cold' blue eyes. Skinny. Nobody knows him. He has no big endorsements. He plays usually in a totally unmarked shirt. If he looked even a little bit like Nico Rosberg, he would not have to win a single match in his life anymore.
And talking about Fisichella: the last time I know he HAS won a couple of Grand Prix...
But there are certain appearances that just don't make it easy for you in certain sports. Being small as a racing driver? Okay. Handy, even. But bald? Pale blue eyes? And it is not just racing. Take Davydenko. He's probably the best player in the world after Federer and Nadal. He looks like a Tsjernobyl victim. Pale. Bald. 'Cold' blue eyes. Skinny. Nobody knows him. He has no big endorsements. He plays usually in a totally unmarked shirt. If he looked even a little bit like Nico Rosberg, he would not have to win a single match in his life anymore.
And talking about Fisichella: the last time I know he HAS won a couple of Grand Prix...
#38
Cirrus
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Posted 23 April 2007 - 21:42
Jerome - as a Tennis fan, I agree entirely with your comments on Davydenko. Sadly, to most of the UK population, tennis is Wimbledon - the majority of UK sports fans don't realise that one of our most popular sports presenters never won Wimbedon, but still won a Grand Slam
Shame it was on the red stuff...
Shame it was on the red stuff...
#39
stevewf1
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Posted 23 April 2007 - 23:17
Originally posted by Jerome.Inen
Of course looks are not deciding. But alas, the image thing has its big influence. Marketing, indeed.
I once heard a marketing guy at a company I worked for (not racing related, but potato chips) say that "perception is reality". He went on to talk about if you can manage what people think and believe, very little else really matters.
It was interesting to hear him talk - yes image does have a big influence...
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#40
Ross Stonefeld
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Posted 24 April 2007 - 04:57
Perception is reality was the best advice I was ever given about motorsport...
#41
seldo
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Posted 24 April 2007 - 05:49
There is no doubting his talent, but you need a lot more than just talent. I suspect it was because he never pushed his own barrow hard enough, and didn't socialise or pee in the right pockets.
Shame, because he was one of the best natural talents out there.
Shame, because he was one of the best natural talents out there.
#42
Bruno
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Posted 24 April 2007 - 06:54
Fiorano: summer 1988: Roberto test "639"
pic "AutoSprint"
pic "AutoSprint"
#43
Jerome
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Posted 24 April 2007 - 09:00
He
I did not know that!
I did not know that!
#44
ensign14
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Posted 24 April 2007 - 10:25
Yes - and in a Championship winning car he never looked like a Championship winner. Just translate it upwards a notch.Originally posted by Jerome.Inen
And talking about Fisichella: the last time I know he HAS won a couple of Grand Prix...
#45
Phil Rainford
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Posted 24 April 2007 - 18:19
Picture of the 1988 F3000 Champion at Le Mans
#46
Jerome
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Posted 24 April 2007 - 19:03
Originally posted by ensign14
Yes - and in a Championship winning car he never looked like a Championship winner. Just translate it upwards a notch.
Like Ross said: Perception is everything in motorracing.
#47
Lutz G
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Posted 24 May 2007 - 19:25
I can only second that. This is one of my favourite "Pupo" moments:Originally posted by Andretti Fan
Moreno may not have achived ultimate success on the track, but no one can dispute that he's a great, talented driver, and one of the really great characters to appear in motor racing in the last few decades. I've always loved the underdogs best.....and he's always been one of my favorites.
02.07.2000 CART: Roberto Moreno's victory in Cleveland (from french TV (ABmoteurs))
I just watched the bump day stuff from Indy. The super sub (again) was over the moon with tears in his eyes getting the car to speed and to be in on sunday...
Lutz
#48
Arjan de Roos
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Posted 25 May 2007 - 07:31
Who is that little man on the inside of row eleven???? Isn't he incredible? *)
*) Sunday's 500 miles race in Indiana
*) Sunday's 500 miles race in Indiana
#49
HistoryFan
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Posted 12 April 2008 - 15:07
Few questions about Roberto Moreno:
1. I need pictures of Roberto Moreno in the Ferrari in 1988 and Minardi in 1991.
2. Why stands Moreno in for Pascal Fabre at AGS in 1987? Other candidates?
3. Why confirms Benetton Moreno after the Nannini helicopter accident? Who were the other candidates?
4. Which were the other candidates at Minardi for the Ausrralia GP 1991?
5. In 1985 Moreno drove an Tyrrell car in F3000 at Barron Racing. Barron was part of the Tyrrell-team since 1982. Are there any infos about the relationship about Tyrrell and Barron Racing?
1. I need pictures of Roberto Moreno in the Ferrari in 1988 and Minardi in 1991.
2. Why stands Moreno in for Pascal Fabre at AGS in 1987? Other candidates?
3. Why confirms Benetton Moreno after the Nannini helicopter accident? Who were the other candidates?
4. Which were the other candidates at Minardi for the Ausrralia GP 1991?
5. In 1985 Moreno drove an Tyrrell car in F3000 at Barron Racing. Barron was part of the Tyrrell-team since 1982. Are there any infos about the relationship about Tyrrell and Barron Racing?
#50
Ross Stonefeld
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Posted 12 April 2008 - 15:45
He should be racing in the Champ Car 'finale' at Long Beach next weekend, if anyone is interested. Which will seemingly also count as a points scoring event.
When was the last time a series ran two events simultaneously (nevermind with different regulations!) that both scored points towards the same championship?
When was the last time a series ran two events simultaneously (nevermind with different regulations!) that both scored points towards the same championship?
