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Historic F1 cars at Bahrain F1 2010 (merged)

Started by brabham bt50 , Mar 06 2010 14:09

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#1 brabham bt50

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Posted 06 March 2010 - 14:09

List of cars

1950 Ferrari 125 'Thinwall'
1951 Ferrari 375
1952 Ferrari 500 F2
1954 Mercedes-Benz W196
1952 Ferrari Tipo 500 F2
1957 Maserati 250F
1960 Cooper-Climax T53
1962 BRM P57 'stackpipe'
1963 Lotus-Climax 25
1964 Ferrari 1512
1968 Lotus-Ford 49
1969 Matra-Ford MS80
1972 Lotus-Ford 72
1973 Tyrrell-Ford 006
1976 McLaren-Ford M23
1978 Lotus-Ford 79
1979 Ferrari 312T4
1982 Williams-Ford FW08
1983 Brabham-BMW BT52
1988 McLaren-Honda MP4/4
1996 Williams-Renault FW18
2007 McLaren-Mercedes MP4-22


http://translate.goo...y...sl=fr&tl=en

Edited by brabham bt50, 06 March 2010 - 19:22.

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#2 brabham bt50

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 18:41

Adam Cooper on the 60th F1 anniversary Bahrain weekend, March 12th 2010

“Should be a fantastic sight tomorrow AM in Bahrain when a bunch of World Champions have a go in World Champion cars.
Surtees, Stewart, Fittipaldi, Andretti, Scheckter, Rosberg and Damon Hill will be in cars they raced with, while others will be out in older machinery.
Mansell, Prost, Hakkinen and Lauda will be in 50s cars.

With luck Jacques Villeneuve will be in the ex-Hunt/Gilles McLaren M23...
But only if the owner approves. And the owner is Bernie Ecclestone!

In total 18 F1 World Champions will be in the photo operation on Sunday March 14th 2010, with only
Nelson Piquet Sr and Raikkonen not making the trip to here.”

http://twitter.com/adamcooperf1

#3 john aston

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 18:45

I suspect pearls before swine.Assume race will be watched by 3 expats, 2 dodgy sheikhs and a bored camel. (Will possibly be better than Korea promises to be however).Unless I am missing Bahrein's rich motor sport heritage of course.....

#4 f1steveuk

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 19:29

I'd love to see it. I helped BCE's right hand man, Mr Dean with a bit of this, and whereever possible, it is the actual chassis, not just the correct model. Sadly I wasn't asked to go!

#5 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 19:55

Scroll down to "Legends" on this webpage:

http://www.bahraingp.../spectatorguide

Vince H.

#6 Alan Cox

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 20:20

http://www.bahraingp.../spectatorguide

I'm a little bit stumped as to the relevance of a photo of the Indy-winning Lotus 38 :well:

#7 Crafty

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 15:30

Couldn't see a thread for the 60th anniversary of F1 at Bahrain, so posting here.

Just thought this was a great picture

Posted Image

#8 D-Type

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 15:34

Couldn't see a thread for the 60th anniversary of F1 at Bahrain, so posting here.
~

Ahem!
60th Anniversary of the World Drivers' Championship. (Formula 1 dates to 1947 see this old thread for example)

Having got that off my chest, it's a great picture of "the man" - thanks for posting it.

Edited by D-Type, 14 March 2010 - 15:41.

#9 Vitesse2

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 15:52

It's good to know that Big John hasn't deserted the sport after last year's tragic events. Also good to see that Black Jack was able to make it to Bahrain for the big reunion (unlike a couple of more recent and presumably much healthier WDCs).

I enjoyed Martin Brundle's grid walk today too - how refreshing to see him talking to people with a real personality like Gerhard Berger and Mario Andretti, neither of whom needed to spout any corporate BS. I thought Gerhard was particularly good fun, although Emerson ran him close by totally ignoring the question Martin posed and putting the case for older drivers: probably because Martin hadn't originally noticed him and had started talking to Rory Bremner!

#10 zakeriath

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 17:24

unlike a couple of more recent and presumably much healthier WDCs



Apart from the miserable Brazilian (the one with the cheating son) and Kimi, all living world champions were present.

#11 Alan Cox

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 17:39

Couldn't see a thread for the 60th anniversary of F1 at Bahrain, so posting here.

I think you have missed this, Crafty
http://forums.autosp...howtopic=125116

#12 retriever

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 19:54

It's good to know that Big John hasn't deserted the sport after last year's tragic events.



That man has suffered, is suffering an immeasurable loss. As a parent who worries constantly about his own son my heart just goes out to him. It does not matter that another thread exists already regarding the world champions. Big John is now even bigger in my eyes for just being there.

#13 Peter Morley

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 22:27

I suspect pearls before swine.Assume race will be watched by 3 expats, 2 dodgy sheikhs and a bored camel. (Will possibly be better than Korea promises to be however).Unless I am missing Bahrein's rich motor sport heritage of course.....


Having somehow managed to stay awake during the procession today I don't think they all turned up to watch!!
They managed to show 1 spectator during the whole race, I suspect the other 2 expats failed to go.

#14 Giraffe

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 22:54

Posted Image
By giraffe138 at 2009-07-20

Big John pictured at last summer's Festival of Speed at Goodwood....

Posted Image
By giraffe138 at 2009-07-20

...where he was accompanied by young Henry..........

#15 Formula Once

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 06:49

60 years of F1 should have been celebrated at Silverstone later this year, not in a desert where nobody cares and no one knows.

#16 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 07:08

I look forward to the BRDC stumping up the funds to pay for it.

#17 David McKinney

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 09:32

I seem to remember 60 years of F1 being celebrated at Silverstone in the appropriate year, ie 2008

#18 Gary C

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 09:51

'I look forward to the BRDC stumping up the funds to pay for it.'
LOL!! Yeah, right!!

#19 Gary C

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 09:52

'with only Nelson Piquet Sr and Raikkonen not making the trip to here.'
And what about Mr.Brabham not getting a mention then?

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#20 PeterElleray

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 09:57

'with only Nelson Piquet Sr and Raikkonen not making the trip to here.'
And what about Mr.Brabham not getting a mention then?


sir jack was there, he's on the group shot -i dont think he drove in the display - or did he?

peter

#21 Giraffe

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 10:00

'with only Nelson Piquet Sr and Raikkonen not making the trip to here.'
And what about Mr.Brabham not getting a mention then?


http://forums.autosp...w...t&p=4222009

On Simon's thread, 5th pic down on this post.

#22 Gary C

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 10:21

ah excellent, I didn't know there was another thread. Good to hear that Sir Jack was out and about.

#23 RaymondMays

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 12:28

Anyone know who was driving which car?

Is there any video of this event?

#24 Stephen W

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Posted 15 March 2010 - 12:34

Anyone know who was driving which car?


If you check out this thread there are some photos posted by Simon Arron: - http://forums.autosp...howtopic=125958

:wave:

#25 Giraffe

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 10:45

With luck Jacques Villeneuve will be in the ex-Hunt/Gilles McLaren M23...
But only if the owner approves. And the owner is Bernie Ecclestone!


The M23 was actually a spare tub, of which Bernie owns two. I think these were the two that were in storage for a long time at the Donington Collection?

#26 f1steveuk

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 11:05

The M23 was actually a spare tub, of which Bernie owns two. I think these were the two that were in storage for a long time at the Donington Collection?



Really? The M23 I used to run a cloth over was M23 8/2, the Hunt,Villenueve, Giacomelli chassis. I was also under the impression from the last chat I had with Tom Weathcroft that the single M23 brought for Roger Williamson was still wrapped in grease paper and would "never be sold or built up". If I am wrong, I'd be very interested to know what tub that actually was.

#27 Giraffe

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 11:09

My info came from John / slurp1955, my spy in the Paddock Club who spoke to the guys looking after the M23.

#28 f1steveuk

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 11:54

My info came from John / slurp1955, my spy in the Paddock Club who spoke to the guys looking after the M23.

Curious! I know there is a chassis "M23 10", but that isn't 8/2, and I have never got into seeing how/why both exist, but "if" that was Bernie's M23, and he only had one, it was 8/2, which I think was also Emerson's favourite M23 chassis.

#29 Giraffe

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 11:58

Curious! I know there is a chassis "M23 10", but that isn't 8/2, and I have never got into seeing how/why both exist, but "if" that was Bernie's M23, and he only had one, it was 8/2, which I think was also Emerson's favourite M23 chassis.


John was told that Bernie has two chassis. :wave:

(Allen's site lists 8/2 but not M23 10).

Edited by Giraffe, 17 March 2010 - 12:04.

#30 f1steveuk

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 12:14

Well I suppose Bernie might have enough in the bank to have brought another!!!

The one thing that I do know about BCE, he rarely has two of anything that are the same to look at, so I can imagine two M23s, but not in the same spec, and I can only go on what was on the list I worked on, and what Robert told me was going from the collection. M23 8/2 is one of the few cars he has a soft spot for and the telling factor would be the cars condition in Bahrain, because last time I saw 8/2 it was unrestored and quite original.

#31 Giraffe

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 12:25

In his e-mail to me, John made a point of saying that the M23 was the only non-pukka chassis there and that Bernie had the other (8/2 presumably) which Alan shows as Swiss owned! (Sort of!)

#32 f1steveuk

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 12:34

Me thinks an e mail to Robert is due!!!

#33 David Force

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 18:01

Really? The M23 I used to run a cloth over was M23 8/2, the Hunt,Villenueve, Giacomelli chassis. I was also under the impression from the last chat I had with Tom Weathcroft that the single M23 brought for Roger Williamson was still wrapped in grease paper and would "never be sold or built up". If I am wrong, I'd be very interested to know what tub that actually was.


Correct, 23/8-2 obtained from Obrist.

:cool:

#34 Giraffe

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 19:21

To quote John (slurp1955) "All pukka cars, with the exception of the M23 McLaren, which was a spare tub I was told (Bernie has the other one too)."
I've asked him for clarification.

#35 f1steveuk

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 19:26

To quote John (slurp1955) "All pukka cars, with the exception of the M23 McLaren, which was a spare tub I was told (Bernie has the other one too)."
I've asked him for clarification.


I wonder if "The Small One" has done, what he has done many times before, and having been nagged by Robert (and when I was there, me) that the cars should run, he got cold feet about damaging it, and had a "replica/copy" built???

#36 Giraffe

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 20:35

e-mail just in from John/slurp1955....

"As for the M23, one of the guys running it said it was Jochen Mass's spare chassis from '76, and that Hunt may have sat in it during one Friday practice! :confused:

#37 PeterElleray

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 21:46

e-mail just in from John/slurp1955....

"As for the M23, one of the guys running it said it was Jochen Mass's spare chassis from '76, and that Hunt may have sat in it during one Friday practice! :confused:


how does all of this fit in with the fairly well documented sequential list of m23 chassis and chassis numbers? ie 4 chassis built in 73 and two new ones (5,6) appearing in argentina in 1974, followed by 2 more mid season. Any chassis that went to TW must have been delivered in 1973 ( and presumably post zandvoort)?

perhaps Nigel B. can shed some light... all a bit odd?

peter

#38 Giraffe

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 21:57

... all a bit odd?

peter


Maybe not. We can be reasonably certain that the M23 in Bahrain was not 8/2 but that it did belong to BE. There are enough M23 types and a couple of varients around for one with a lesser pedigree to be acquired and nominally presented.

#39 Slurp1955

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Posted 17 March 2010 - 22:42

Well I suppose Bernie might have enough in the bank to have brought another!!!

The one thing that I do know about BCE, he rarely has two of anything that are the same to look at, so I can imagine two M23s, but not in the same spec, and I can only go on what was on the list I worked on, and what Robert told me was going from the collection. M23 8/2 is one of the few cars he has a soft spot for and the telling factor would be the cars condition in Bahrain, because last time I saw 8/2 it was unrestored and quite original.


Posted Image

To misquote from the Lebowski soundtrack, as for the McLaren this is the condition its condition was in. The cars were in an air-conditioned static display when not running on the track and after a word with Sheik Yerbouti we were the very last people allowed in on Sunday night, and some were already being dismantled for the trip back to Europe. I asked about the provenance of all of the collection, and the reply was that they were all pukka apart from the M23, which had been Jochen Mass's spare in '76. JohnP

Edited by Slurp1955, 18 March 2010 - 01:02.

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#40 PeterElleray

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 08:02

Maybe not. We can be reasonably certain that the M23 in Bahrain was not 8/2 but that it did belong to BE. There are enough M23 types and a couple of varients around for one with a lesser pedigree to be acquired and nominally presented.


yes - i agree but thats not the point i was making. i'm curious to know where a 'new' car, delivered to wheatcroft in the second half of 1973 and never taken out of the clingfilm fits into the widely documented and , i thought, generally accepted lineage of the m23 family? in 'thunder in the park' tom alludes to discussing the cars and confirming an order but the the story fades away..

as regards the bahrain car, i agree with you - although im bemused by the phrase 'jochen mass's spare from 1976' - if we want to get into m23 useage that year (and we can if we do) then describing any car as 'jochen's spare' as opposed to 'team spare' or even 'james's spare' is a bit strange..

peter

#41 Giraffe

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 08:35

Me thinks an e mail to Robert is due!!!


Me too! :cat:

#42 Slurp1955

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 08:48

Some shots from Sunday morning, "Diamonds in the Desert"

Posted Image
By slurp1955 at 2010-03-18

Posted Image
By slurp1955, shot with Canon EOS 400D DIGITAL at 2010-03-18

Posted Image
By slurp1955, shot with Canon EOS 400D DIGITAL at 2010-03-18

Posted Image
By slurp1955, shot with Canon EOS 400D DIGITAL at 2010-03-17

Posted Image
By slurp1955 at 2010-03-17

Posted Image
By slurp1955, shot with Canon EOS 400D DIGITAL at 2010-03-17

Posted Image
By slurp1955, shot with Canon EOS 400D DIGITAL at 2010-03-17

Posted Image
By slurp1955 at 2010-03-17



Posted Image
By slurp1955, shot with Canon EOS 400D DIGITAL at 2010-03-17

#43 Alan Cox

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 10:02

Nice photos, John. Thanks.

It seems a shame that Bernie's collection and all the world champions gathered, at what must have been considerable expense, where remarkably few enthusiasts (apart from slurp!) had the chance to appreciate them. i suspect that the stands would have been considerably fuller if it had been staged in Europe.

#44 Giraffe

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 10:05

Nice photos, John. Thanks.

It seems a shame that Bernie's collection and all the world champions gathered, at what must have been considerable expense, where remarkably few enthusiasts (apart from slurp!) had the chance to appreciate them. i suspect that the stands would have been considerably fuller if it had been staged in Europe.


They have no concept of their own history in Bahrain, let alone F1's. I was there on one occasion when they demolished a centuries old mosque to make way for a new road, and it didn't raise an eyebrow! :well:

#45 Gabrci

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 10:24

Nice photos, John. Thanks.

It seems a shame that Bernie's collection and all the world champions gathered, at what must have been considerable expense, where remarkably few enthusiasts (apart from slurp!) had the chance to appreciate them. i suspect that the stands would have been considerably fuller if it had been staged in Europe.


I don't think it's forbidden for the BRDC to invite these people and organize these cars for the British GP, is it?

#46 Macca

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 10:26

The chances of BCE and the BRDC cooperating on anything are minimal...........and from his point of view, the British GP doesn't need any gimmicks to bump up public/media interest.

Paul M

#47 Stephen W

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 11:06

The chances of BCE and the BRDC cooperating on anything are minimal...........and from his point of view, the British GP doesn't need any gimmicks to bump up public/media interest.

Paul M


Mind you seeing as Silverstone was the venue for the first F1 GP ...

How about getting each of the World Champions' cars from each and every year to do a parade?

#48 David McKinney

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 12:31

Mind you seeing as Silverstone was the venue for the first F1 GP ...

No it wasn't :)

#49 Giraffe

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 12:34

No it wasn't :)


Well how about adding an explanation, David?

#50 David McKinney

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Posted 18 March 2010 - 12:36

I wouldn't have thought any was necessary on a forumsuch as this :)
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