"groeten uit" Spa
#1
Posted 29 December 2000 - 17:09
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#2
Posted 29 December 2000 - 21:10
But surely Eau Rouge corner is the left-hander at the bottom of the hill after the old startline, not the right-hander which follows it?
#3
Posted 29 December 2000 - 22:06
#4
Posted 30 December 2000 - 06:52
I am amazed at how many people think that Le Radillon is Eau Rouge - even people who have raced there (Wallies in touring cars, admittedly).
Today I was looking through Les Annees Fangio and notice that the apex of Eau Rouge was concreted over to "straighten" the corner (I am not sure if it was done for 1952 but it does look fresh).
In those days there was a degree of honour in having the fastest circuit in Europe - which is probably why they constructed Le Radillon to by-pass the old hairpin bend in the first place.
Both Spa-Francorchamps and Reims had new roads constructed to by-pass tight corners in villages. Spa-Francorchamps' bend was quite sharply banked to make it even faster.
These two circuits, plus Monza and Silverstone, I think, were all involved in these efforts to make their tracks faster.
Does anyone know when the following mods were made to Spa-Francorchamps?
1 The banked by-pass of the village.
2 Le Radillon to by-pass the old hairpin bend.
3 The smoothing out of the apex of Eau Rouge (I think 1952).
4 Any other mods to make the track faster.
How strange, too, that there then came a time when all the efforts went into making the tracks slower.
Can anyone put a date on when "chicanery" became common in the modern era? I know they used to have them at Monza etc in the old days, but I am talking about relatively recent times.
It seems to have gone through phases. Early circuits had long straights. Then there was a trend towards chicanes (1930s?), back to "faster is better" 1940s-1950s (maybe 1960s), and then chicanes came back in again.
#5
Posted 30 December 2000 - 08:50
These picture show Eau rouge and Le Radillon as they were in late 1953 or early 1954
#6
Posted 30 December 2000 - 11:31
You and your old magazines and your scanner make a great team!
#7
Posted 30 December 2000 - 11:51
First there was the virage de l’Ancienne Douanne - it was hairpin bend on the hill
In 1939 - the « Bypassed » - from 380 to 420 m high
In 1958 - the « Bypassed » and « eau Rouge » built more wide
The place was the Raidillon but she say : after l’eau Rouge or « the climb »
In 1983 – the new circuit with changing the Bypassed trace
Eau Rouge , narrow
And the Bypassed more a S curve « the RAIDILLON »
Other change
1925 first GP
1930 little change
1934 Malmedy eased
1939 Bypass
1951 no Stavelot virage
1955 little change of Malmedy and Masta virage
1958 built more wide the start, eau rouge, bypassed and Blanchimont
1970 chicane Malmedy
1983 now short circuit
1986 new start place
1991 la source more wide
1992 change chicane
1994 chicane in the Raidillon
1995 no chicane in the Raidillon
#8
Posted 30 December 2000 - 16:54
However, the short circuit was already built in 1979, when there had been a controversial Moto GP, where almost all the stars boycotted the race because of the track's new low-grip surface. I am fairly sure it still had the old Eau Rouge corner back then, which was probably straightened when F1 paid its first visit in 1983.
#9
Posted 30 December 2000 - 17:03
The first "trend towards chicanes" came probably from the 1933 disaster at Monza, although there had been chicanes at Brooklands in 1926/7, when the RAC GP was held there. Apart from Monza during 1934-38, Montlhéry was also emasculated in those years. Can't remember any other tracks now, but the Long Island "Mickey Mouse" circuit also springs to mind. (BTW, anyone with an explanation of the term "Mickey Mouse circuit"?)Originally posted by Barry Lake
It seems to have gone through phases. Early circuits had long straights. Then there was a trend towards chicanes (1930s?), back to "faster is better" 1940s-1950s (maybe 1960s), and then chicanes came back in again.
The second trend probably started in 1970, with the Hockenheim chicanes that were envisaged to split up the slipstreaming groups. Monza followed suit two years later, and a number of other tracks thought it a cheap way of slowing down their races.
#10
Posted 30 December 2000 - 18:04
"Mickey Mouse", for members who are not native English speakers, is a term used to describe something regarded as a "toy" rather than the real thing, and I suspect derives from the Mickey Mouse watches on sale years ago (1950s? earlier?) which not only looked childish but didn't work very well either. And would of course never be used by grown-ups. A bit like some of the modern circuits....
#11
Posted 31 December 2000 - 05:11
Other things were tried to slow the Germans in the thirties, and there was an effort to do the same thing in the Argentine in 1951/2 or whenever it was that Fangio drove the pre-war car there.
Before he had the drive stitched up he suggested a tight variation of the circuit be used to cruel Mercedes' way...
#12
Posted 31 December 2000 - 12:21
#13
Posted 31 December 2000 - 13:12
In 1937 Van Brauchitsch had a bad crash during the practice as he missed the braking point for the Ancienne Douanne conner and his car go into the woods,
So in 1939 she make a high speed bypass
In 1950 (right not in 1951)
She make from the 45° bend in Stavelot a high speed bend
She like speed in Spa, in 1958 there was the idee to change
La Source in a wide corner, but there was no place ,
the change the road , and it stay by a idea.
#14
Posted 02 January 2001 - 11:41
http://www.spa-franc.../en/index2.html
I have a picture of the 24-hours 1938 where the Eau-Rouge bend seems still to lead to the hairpin.
May I correct a spelling error to be found in all posts, and even sites?
There's only one 'n' in "douane" in french, thus "Ancienne douane" is the right spelling for the former hairpin.