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Deltawing for LeMans in 2012

Started by Wuzak , Jun 09 2011 12:12

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261 replies to this topic

#51 Victor_RO

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 21:13

So on target for 2011 track debut

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/94533

http://www.mulsannes...newssept11.html

Shock horror, potentially built around an Aston Martin AMR-One tub!

#52 saudoso

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 21:30

Holy weird car, Batman!

#53 cheapracer

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 01:51

Shock horror, potentially built around an Aston Martin AMR-One tub!

Well I hope the only reason for that is driver safety otherwise they have just blown their "cheap" concept out of the water.

#54 Victor_RO

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Posted 15 September 2011 - 08:16

Well I hope the only reason for that is driver safety otherwise they have just blown their "cheap" concept out of the water.

I guess that's probably why, with a tub that has already passed the FIA's crash tests that's one worry less.

#55 Nathan

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 02:03

Le Mans has always been about cars that have some (admittedly sometimes rather limited) sort of connection to road cars. The Deltawing has none - unless you count the Reliant Robin. It has no place in sports car racing.

Like the 917, MS670, 956, 962, R8, R10??

#56 24gerrard

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 08:41

I wonder for how much longer this scam will continue to hold credibility?

#57 ensign14

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 09:14

Le Mans has always been about cars that have some (admittedly sometimes rather limited) sort of connection to road cars. The Deltawing has none - unless you count the Reliant Robin. It has no place in sports car racing.

Quite. I'd prefer someone to have a go with an Ariel Atom.

#58 Spoofski

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 09:17

I wonder for how much longer this scam will continue to hold credibility?

Until enough people realise they've been fleeced I suppose. It could drag on for another year yet.

#59 BRG

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 10:29

Like the 917, MS670, 956, 962, R8, R10??

Exactly. You do know that you there are/were road registered Porsche 917s, 965s and 962s? In fact, if you bought a 956, it came with a set of keys for doors and ignition. As for other sports prototypes, as I said, they have some (admittedly sometimes rather limited) sort of connection to road cars. You know, four wheels covered by bodywork, two seats, lights and so on.

Interesting that the Deltawing has gained the 56th spot for the 2011 Le Mans race (according to Autosport) so presumably it can time travel in addition to all its other supposed virtues!

#60 cheapracer

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Posted 26 September 2011 - 10:55

Interesting that the Deltawing has gained the 56th spot for the 2011 Le Mans race (according to Autosport) so presumably it can time travel in addition to all its other supposed virtues!

I only ever heard it was slated for 2012 Lemans.

This is worth the watch although Miller does well at contridicting himself...

Edited by cheapracer, 26 September 2011 - 11:45.

#61 Victor_RO

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 05:09

https://twitter.com/#!/marshallpruett/s...294289482498048

It turns.

Safe to say it's this he was talking about. Marino was at AAR a few days ago, I suspect getting ready to do a shakedown run with the car.

EDIT: And proof.

#62 REN_AF1

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 20:39

https://twitter.com/#!/marshallpruett/s...294289482498048

Safe to say it's this he was talking about. Marino was at AAR a few days ago, I suspect getting ready to do a shakedown run with the car.

EDIT: And proof.

Ohh year.. And considering that it negotiated the bend with a violent 20mph, it hardly displayed any bodyroll at all (OK, so it rolled quite a bit, but at least the inside rear wheel stayed on the ground)

R

#63 Ali_G

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 21:20

Like the 917, MS670, 956, 962, R8, R10??

There was a 962 road car after Dauer ran two 962s in GT1 at LeMans in 1994.

#64 Slowinfastout

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 02:18

https://twitter.com/#!/marshallpruett/s...294289482498048

Safe to say it's this he was talking about. Marino was at AAR a few days ago, I suspect getting ready to do a shakedown run with the car.

EDIT: And proof.

Nice to see it actually exists in the flesh, can't wait to see how it goes when they really give it the beans.

It's pretty cool to have the balls to build this, and go against the norm, but I'm still a huge skeptic.. still looks wrong to me, and slow.

Also, must be kinda hard figuring out where this thing ends from the driver's seat.. not easy being in a close battle while having to use a sextant.

#65 Tony Matthews

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 07:57

not easy being in a close battle while having to use a sextant.

#66 cheapracer

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 08:15

. not easy being in a close battle while having to use a sextant.

Danica's driving it?

#67 Tony Matthews

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 08:25

Danica's driving it?

#68 ensign14

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 09:05

There was a 962 road car after Dauer ran two 962s in GT1 at LeMans in 1994.

Still annoyed that that was allowed.

#69 Victor_RO

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 09:14

Ohh year.. And considering that it negotiated the bend with a violent 20mph, it hardly displayed any bodyroll at all (OK, so it rolled quite a bit, but at least the inside rear wheel stayed on the ground)

R

Beats some people's predictions of the thing rolling over when trying to tackle a corner at 5mph though. :lol:

#70 Ali_G

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 12:40

Still annoyed that that was allowed.

I was delighted that a WSC (which was supposed to be the fastest class) couldn't win in 1994 and was really showed up in 1995 when they were all beaten by an actual GT1 car.

#71 cheapracer

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 14:25

Still annoyed that that was allowed.

They followed the rules, they got cars complied and legally registered for legal road use, more legal than the Monaro's at Bathurst 24 hour and I seem to remember BMW dicking everybody with an M3 recently as well.

#72 desmo

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 21:26

Wouldn't modern vehicle dynamics modelling allow the concept to be pretty accurately evaluated before any hardware was built?

#73 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 21:29

Yes. But we, the internet, do not 'do' facts.

#74 gruntguru

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 03:47

Yes. But we, the internet, do not 'do' facts.

#75 cheapracer

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 04:50

"it turns!" - ignorant idiot.

I'm sure people are scared of this concept as well...

http://deveze-design.....Trium Loc.htm

..anything that doesn't look right should be burnt with fire I guess.

#76 saudoso

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 13:22

Wouldn't modern vehicle dynamics modelling allow the concept to be pretty accurately evaluated before any hardware was built?

If you are talkinkg Delatwing here I remember reading thay were sure it would work after running time trials with 1/10 RC cars.

#77 cheapracer

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 13:25

Wouldn't modern vehicle dynamics modelling allow the concept to be pretty accurately evaluated before any hardware was built?

I wonder if that can only fit within the parameters of having 4 wheels - themselves being within reasonable parameters ie; basic rectangular footprint?

#78 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 13:33

The Delta Wing has 4 wheels. Yes the track is different front vs rear, but some single seaters have that. The Delta Wing just takes it to extremes.

#79 saudoso

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 13:43

LOL Ross, so used to defending it that you didn't read the supposed attack right. Cheapy said basic rectangular form not 3/4 wheels...

#80 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 14:10

You see so many unimaginative criticisms that you end up speed reading them.

I understand that people don't like the way it looks, there's no denying it looks weird and not like a 'real' racing car. But then everyone complains that there's nothing new in racing, the rules are too restrictive, etc etc.

#81 saudoso

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 14:21

But then again, under the original concept rules were to force this configuration for Indy, and I can't see the bright side on that happening.

Nice, they will get a shot at Le Mans. Good for them. But I still believe it wont work that great.

#82 cheapracer

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 14:47

There's no denying it looks weird and not like a 'real' racing car. .

Not sure what a "real racing car" should look like anymore, recent F1's are certainly just as confusing.

I'm against the width of the rear, I can see it tangling with other race cars such as late braking dives.

I think the rear 'tailfin' is just silly, not sure what purpose it serves either and looks better without it ..

Posted Image

#83 Greg Locock

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 21:14

I wonder if that can only fit within the parameters of having 4 wheels - themselves being within reasonable parameters ie; basic rectangular footprint?

No, trikes are easy to model, even in a basic package like LapSim, just set the roll stiffness of the single wheel axle to zero, etc . In ADAMS or equivalent an experienced motorsports analyst could get you laptimes with a meaningful correlation to real world, given adequate track profile and tire data and aero.

#84 Wolf

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 22:35

Not sure what a "real racing car" should look like anymore, recent F1's are certainly just as confusing.

Maybe like this?

(I think I may have mentioned this car recently, as the first monocoque car in GP racing that I know of... Interesting to note is the shape of steering wheel.)

#85 gruntguru

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 22:50

Almost like something out of Mad Max. Look closer though and you can see the thing is bristling with innovation and ingenuity. What a treasure! It doesn't look like it has been granted the status I think it deserves.

#86 Risil

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 22:56

I'm against the width of the rear, I can see it tangling with other race cars such as late braking dives.

This question came to Bowlby when the thing was new. He said that the disparity between front and rear track were basically unavoidable parts of the design. However, if it were a serious problem you could always attach some carbon fibre appendages to "fill out" the front to the width of the rear track. But personally I'd love to see how drivers adapt their cornering technique with such an unusual front-end.

#87 Wolf

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 01:04

Almost like something out of Mad Max. Look closer though and you can see the thing is bristling with innovation and ingenuity. What a treasure! It doesn't look like it has been granted the status I think it deserves.

Glad you like it, and in case you were wondering- the propeller, I think, drives a water pump...

In case anybody's interested it's Voisin Laboratoire of 1923.

#88 saudoso

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 01:26

It immediately made me thing of the RB8 hunch inlet...

#89 cheapracer

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 04:48

Has anyone noticed that if you turned it upside down it's front half is the same as any modern F1 ...

In case anybody's interested it's Voisin Laboratoire of 1923.

Yes of course, a June model too, 3rd week, Wednesday, morning I believe.

Edited by cheapracer, 06 March 2012 - 04:52.

#90 Wolf

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 12:01

Yes of course, a June model too, 3rd week, Wednesday, morning I believe.

Huh, you lost me there... :confused:

#91 24gerrard

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 12:12

Maybe like this?

(I think I may have mentioned this car recently, as the first monocoque car in GP racing that I know of... Interesting to note is the shape of steering wheel.)

In 1923 one came 5th behind three Sunbeams and a Bugatti, 5 finished.
It was 20 minutes behind the winning Sunbeam.

http://www.switchima...febvre_1_E.html

Edited by 24gerrard, 06 March 2012 - 12:14.

#92 Bloggsworth

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 14:18

This question came to Bowlby when the thing was new. He said that the disparity between front and rear track were basically unavoidable parts of the design. However, if it were a serious problem you could always attach some carbon fibre appendages to "fill out" the front to the width of the rear track. But personally I'd love to see how drivers adapt their cornering technique with such an unusual front-end.

They will adapt their technique by bringing it back to the pits and saying "Whose bloody stupid idea was this..."

#93 Victor_RO

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 11:40

Nissan-badged 1.6 L turbocharged 4-cyl engine.

And... it turns faster than you might think.

Onboard video from first test at Buttonwillow

#94 saudoso

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 11:54

Does it?

#95 Magoo

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 12:50

Maybe like this?

(I think I may have mentioned this car recently, as the first monocoque car in GP racing that I know of... Interesting to note is the shape of steering wheel.)

My favorite feature of the Voisin Lab is the propeller. Andre Lefebvre, you wild man.

#96 cheapracer

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 13:20

Nissan-badged 1.6 L turbocharged 4-cyl engine.

And... it turns faster than you might think.
Onboard video from first test at Buttonwillow[/url]

Steers well and was hauling ass. Bit twitchy but likely bump induced with early days for shocks and springs.

Just thinking that the front tyres are going to be often on a dirty line between the normal vehicle's track tyre lines, may not be good.

Here's some comparisons ..

0. Deltawing 52 seconds

1. Chevrolet Corvette C6 66.32
2. Dodge Viper SRT-10 66.60
3. Porsche 911 Carrera S 66.71

= less 22% aprox

Road Atlanta
LMP2 time = 73 seconds (qualifying).

Corvette C6 = 95 seconds

= less 23% aprox

Different tracks have different needs that might suit one and not the other but not bad for an out of the box radical concept to appear to be near the mark immediately.

Edited by cheapracer, 13 March 2012 - 13:42.

#97 Ross Stonefeld

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 13:37

The racing line is more or less clear over it's entire width, it's not like the highway where trucks make two grooves.

#98 Slowinfastout

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 13:53

Interesting to see the progression and the changes from the concept mockup to the real race car.. of course its intended use has changed, but still interesting..

Posted Image