Private speed trial courses in England
#1
Posted 23 September 2011 - 13:46
Does anyone know where the good Earl resided at the time and what remains/became of the modified private course?
I recall mention that family pressure prevented him opening it up for proper events. I've often wondered why, in the days after public-raod events were banned and only Brooklands Southport and Shelsley were left in operation, one or more of the landed gentry who competed there did not build suitable courses on their own estates? In the 20s and 30s the amount of actual work to be done was minimal - no armco, safety fencing or run off areas, and the public of the day were used to coping with the most primative of 'facilities' (if any!) Likewise no-one was quoting 'Elf n Safety or sticking noise meter's in the ground, yet the available courses were usually fairly prefunctory , lacking in length and in features. Dancers End had but one corner, the original version of Westbrook Hay, likewise, many others were just near-straight line afairs (Lewes, Brighton etc)
Howe had vast wealth and lands, as did Montagu, Malcolm Campbell , if he'd chosen could have bought up enough farms to create his own Nurburgring and so many Lords, Baronets, Earls and 'Honorables' feature in entry lists of the time it beggars belief no one stepped up to the plate.
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#2
Posted 23 September 2011 - 14:15
http://www.pennhouse.org.uk/
http://maps.google.c...house, amersham
I've seen a photo somewhere of His Lordship's cars lined up outside the main gate - could even be in one of Rivers' books!
#3
Posted 23 September 2011 - 14:27
Westbrook Hay, as you mentioned, plus Great Auclam, Harleyford Manor, Gurston Down, Tewin Water, Wiscombe and Loton Park some of which are still with us seem to fit the description.
I don't know where Francis, Earl Howe lived, but the present Lord Howe lives in Penn House, between Beaconsfield and Amersham in Buckinghamshire, and from the OS map and Google Earth it seems to have a reasonable drive from the Beaconsfield diresction with a corner, some swerves and a bit of gradient to it.
it's at 51°38'31.31" N 0°39'43.10" W
#4
Posted 23 September 2011 - 14:49
#5
Posted 23 September 2011 - 15:01
http://www.pennhouse...house/house.htmThe final main addition came fifty years later: in the 1930’s the fifth Earl Howe, who was a prominent motor racing driver, built the mile-long drive to the house, suitably banked, for his personal enjoyment and convenience.
#6
Posted 23 September 2011 - 15:03
#7
Posted 23 September 2011 - 16:03
#8
Posted 23 September 2011 - 17:50
Was it the same course?O/T: Although Great Auclum is primarily known as a post-war course, the first meeting was actually in July 1939 (postponed from May): contemporaneous previews and reports refer variously to it as Burghfield, Burghfield Common or even Mortimer.
In the feature on GA in the Hants & Berks MC 60th anniversary book it is said " at the first meeting in 1947 organised by H&B . . " which can be read either way (as the first GA meeting or the first H&B meeting at GA) and it does not refer to a prewar history. However in Charles Bulmer's piece on H&B early years in the same book he says it had been used twice for sprints before the war. Probably the same course therefore.
Inasmuch as it was Neil Gardiner's drive and he added a banked corner for his own amusement (and to terrify his guests, accourding to Bulmer!), as much as anything, it's not quite O/T
Edited by Allan Lupton, 23 September 2011 - 17:54.
#9
Posted 23 September 2011 - 17:54
Penn wasn't the most relevant name Lord Howe had, even if he was Francis Richard Henry Penn Curzon, so referring to him as Francis Penn, the Earl Howe wouldn't be too correct.Just as a matter of interest. Was Francis Penn, Northern Editor of Autosport, any kin to Francis Penn, the Earl Howe?
#10
Posted 23 September 2011 - 18:10
#11
Posted 23 September 2011 - 18:35
http://thepeerage.com/p1066.htm
#12
Posted 23 September 2011 - 19:04
His father sold it in 1919 to Lord Waring (of Waring and Gillow furniture). Waring then disposed of the park, probably for tax reasons to the Crown Estate in 1927 and in 1931 he passed on the house and remaining land.
Although not owned by Earl Howe, it was used for speed trials between 1927 and 1933 (some times referred to as Shakerstone). In 1932 a race course proposal was floated for Gopsall Park and Earl Howe was on the board of the company involved,it seems to have failed through lack of funds.
I came across a mention somewhere that Earl Howe lived in Surrey pre World War II. I must try and find the reference.
Edited by fuzzi, 23 September 2011 - 19:06.
#13
Posted 23 September 2011 - 19:05
The club listed in Motor Sport as running the 1939 event was the Sporting ODC (who they?). I'd suggest Mr Bulmer is wrong in saying there were two though: it was originally on the calendar for May 27th, but was rearranged for June 24th, by which time the Frazer Nash and Frazer Nash-BMW clubs were also involved. They'd actually had a "speed event" at Reading listed on the calendar for June 3rd, so presumably this revised date combined the two.Was it the same course?
In the feature on GA in the Hants & Berks MC 60th anniversary book it is said " at the first meeting in 1947 organised by H&B . . " which can be read either way (as the first GA meeting or the first H&B meeting at GA) and it does not refer to a prewar history. However in Charles Bulmer's piece on H&B early years in the same book he says it had been used twice for sprints before the war. Probably the same course therefore.
Inasmuch as it was Neil Gardiner's drive and he added a banked corner for his own amusement (and to terrify his guests, accourding to Bulmer!), as much as anything, it's not quite O/T
For once, Wikipedia is remarkably well-referenced on the subject:
http://en.wikipedia....peed_Hill_Climb
#14
Posted 23 September 2011 - 19:10
The Frazer Nash and BMW club ran the next meeting on 24 June 1939. PW Neale set btd in his bodyless AC-enfined Special with 27.0sec.
#15
Posted 23 September 2011 - 20:35
The club listed in Motor Sport as running the 1939 event was the Sporting ODC (who they?).
Sporting Owner Drivers Club, based , I thought, a bit north and east from Great Auclum. Ran most forms of club motor sport and were active until quite recently, or still are (haven't checked MSA club list).
#16
Posted 23 September 2011 - 21:15
The club listed or Sport[/i] as running the 1939 event was the Sporting ODC (who they?).
Again Charles Bulmer can help: he referred to the "Reading-based Sporting Owner Drivers' Club (SODC) was showing no sign of post-war revival" as one of the reasons for founding Hants & Berks. By the time I knew the SODC it was Dunstable-based and that's the club RS2000 remembers, and for Julian's benefit it was they who ran a team hillclimb in Woburn Park in the 1970s.Sporting Owner Drivers Club, based , I thought, a bit north and east from Great Auclum. Ran most forms of club motor sport and were active until quite recently, or still are (haven't checked MSA club list).
They don't seem to be in the RAC MSA list but are in the AEMC list and LCAMC list.
Edited by Allan Lupton, 23 September 2011 - 21:17.
#17
Posted 23 September 2011 - 21:20
#18
Posted 23 September 2011 - 22:17
By the time I knew the SODC it was Dunstable-based and that's the club RS2000 remembers, and for Julian's benefit it was they who ran a team hillclimb in Woburn Park in the 1970s.
They don't seem to be in the RAC MSA list but are in the AEMC list and LCAMC list.
I think even the LCAMC is now defunct (sadly, as a former CofC of one of the "Great Cotswold Road Races" that was once a round of it's very seriously contended rally championship).
#19
Posted 24 September 2011 - 07:55
Not in your league, but, for an LCAMC Club, in 1964 I and my co-Clerk were probably the last people allowed to Clerk a course in Burnham Beeches before it became a blackspot - possibly cause and effectI think even the LCAMC is now defunct (sadly, as a former CofC of one of the "Great Cotswold Road Races" that was once a round of it's very seriously contended rally championship).
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#20
Posted 24 September 2011 - 18:47
Not in your league, but, for an LCAMC Club, in 1964 I and my co-Clerk were probably the last people allowed to Clerk a course in Burnham Beeches before it became a blackspot - possibly cause and effect
The Beeches had certainly gone before my time, although I think, from reading some old reports when I first got involved, that South Bucks MC's August Moon in 66 (CofC Mick Hayward?) may have been the last LCAMC round (and last rally?) to use it. Probably set the final seal on it being a permanent Blackspot!
Was reading somewhere recently (may have been Stuart Turner's Pat Moss biography) of an event that used a lap system there - probably illegal under even the pre-65 rules...
#21
Posted 24 September 2011 - 21:31
Must ask Stuart next month at the filmshow!The Beeches had certainly gone before my time, although I think, from reading some old reports when I first got involved, that South Bucks MC's August Moon in 66 (CofC Mick Hayward?) may have been the last LCAMC round (and last rally?) to use it. Probably set the final seal on it being a permanent Blackspot!
Was reading somewhere recently (may have been Stuart Turner's Pat Moss biography) of an event that used a lap system there - probably illegal under even the pre-65 rules...
We had a succession of half-mile sections using pretty well all the roads in the four 1km. squares that were possible without using any twice. Rusty memory says five sections but I can't now work out how we got in more than four, even before the organisers' well-known generosity of distance.
#22
Posted 25 September 2011 - 19:59
Hello SimonI've often wondered why, in the days after public-raod events were banned and only Brooklands Southport and Shelsley were left in operation, one or more of the landed gentry who competed there did not build suitable courses on their own estates?
Madresfield Court, home to Earl Beauchamp (and the model, it is claimed, on which Evelyn Waugh based Brideshead and Lord Marchmain) is only 15 miles or so from Shelsley. Certainly by 1922, a sprint along a dead-straight road on the estate, Gloucester Drive, was being held there.
I understand the VSCC still use it for events today, but as to how long past 1925 the Madresfield sprints continued, I’m afraid I can’t say.
Sorry I can’t be of more help.
Paul
#23
Posted 26 September 2011 - 10:03
I guess I was more intrigued by the situation that arose after the RAC's 1925 speeds events ban on public roads. The sport, which was thriving, was almost killed off overnight - a calendar showing hundreds of annual events for 1924-25 became reduced to a proverbial handful in 1926 yet in the resulting vacuum there was no rash of new courses appearing on estate land owned by motor sporting-types. As crowds were often huge (Kop, Shelsley etc) and growing year-on-year as mass transport improved, and even if not for sporting reasons, one could envisage the landowners being able to capitalize on such events with very little up-front cost required. But it didn't really happen.
There is if course the old English problem of a ruling class that was predominantly horse-obsessed and vehemently opposed to anything related to motoring. Perhaps peer-pressure (quite literally in this case!) meant the risk of being ostracized in 'polite society' for associating with these scurrilous motoring 'types'?
#24
Posted 26 September 2011 - 12:05
Sir Ronald Gunter's Yorkshire property was Wetherby Grange, and was used for sprint events in the '30sThe daughter of Sir Ronald Gunter (Brooklands Bentleys and shared a Lagonda at Le Mans in 1935 with Benjafield) used to be a customer of mine. She told me that her father used to invite his friends to "race" on the roads of his country estate in Yorkshire. Perhaps the ultimate expression of "the right crowd and no crowding"? Just keep the racing amongst a priviledged few and don't tell anyone else about it.
#25
Posted 26 September 2011 - 12:12
Sir Ronald Gunter's Yorkshire property was Wetherby Grange, and was used for sprint events in the '30s
Oh right, she gave me the impression it was very much a private thing. But then she wouldn't even have been in her teens at the time and apparently, since her parents were divorced, rarely visited.
#26
Posted 26 September 2011 - 16:21
#27
Posted 27 September 2011 - 10:14
I thought Earl Howe's cars were prepared at Welwyn (or the Garden City)? Perhaps his private test road was there?
Sir Henry (Tim) Birkin had a factory unit in Welwyn Garden City Broadwater Rd ( and it is still there now a Topps tiles shop) which was financed by Dorothy Paget where they received Bentleys in the late 20s from Cricklewood and converted them in to supercharged 4 1/2 litres.
So I wonder if there was a connection with Lord Howe if he had work done there ?
pictures
http://forums.autosp...p;hl=tim birkin
Edited by Twin Window, 02 October 2011 - 11:29.
#28
Posted 27 September 2011 - 10:38
Sir Henry (Tim) Birkin had a factory unit in Welwyn Garden City Broadwater Rd ( and it is still there now a Topps tiles) shop) which was financed by Dorothy Paget where they received Bentleys in the late 20s from Cricklewood and converted them in to supercharged 4 1/2 litres.
So I wonder if there was a connection with Lord Howe if he had work done there ?
pictures
http://forums.autosp...p;hl=tim birkin
Howe & Birkin shared a Le Mans victory (1931) in the former's Alfa Romeo.
#29
Posted 27 September 2011 - 10:44
My late father told me that they planned a circuit and "tested it" one evening after a BMC&LCC meeting and submitted a plan to the council. I think it got a mention in an Autocar or similar magazine.
This would have been on park roads up on Durdham Downs I guess? Stoke Road, Ladies Mile, Circular Road?
http://maps.google.c...r...mp;t=h&z=15
#30
Posted 27 September 2011 - 10:54
My late father told me that they planned a circuit and "tested it" one evening after a BMC&LCC meeting and submitted a plan to the council. I think it got a mention in an Autocar or similar magazine.
There are still young people testing the Clifton Downs circuit most evenings IIRC
#31
Posted 27 September 2011 - 15:08
Thanks, Richard - perhaps I was thinking Birkin rather than HoweSir Henry (Tim) Birkin had a factory unit in Welwyn Garden City Broadwater Rd ( and it is still there now a Topps tiles) shop) which was financed by Dorothy Paget where they received Bentleys in the late 20s from Cricklewood and converted them in to supercharged 4 1/2 litres.
So I wonder if there was a connection with Lord Howe if he had work done there ?
#32
Posted 28 September 2011 - 07:01
#33
Posted 28 September 2011 - 07:43
Re post 44. But not in 2.3 Alfas,Frazer Nashes, Mgs etc. (if so I will be there tonight !!!!! )
Last time I passed it was mainly the GTi brigade, these days you might see the odd Mito or MGF I imagine
#34
Posted 04 October 2011 - 15:09
#35
Posted 04 October 2011 - 15:59
#36
Posted 21 October 2019 - 23:10
Great Auclum, 1974
1. Roy Lane, McRae GM1, 18.02, 17.97 - Neil W. Gardiner Trophy and £60 cash
2. Mike MacDowel, Brabham BT36X, 18.66, 18.22
Reading Evening Post, Tuesday 13 August 1974
Date: Saturday 5 August 1972
1. A.B. Griffiths, 5.0 Brabham BT35X Repco, 18.34 secs
1 Aug 1970
David Good, McLaren M10B, 18.50 sec
1968
P. Lawson, B.R.M., 19.34 secs
RGDS RLT
Edited by Rupertlt1, 26 October 2019 - 19:06.
#37
Posted 03 November 2019 - 18:35
I have a note that Louis Coatalen drove his ohv special "Nautilus" in Welbeck Flying Kilometre at 82 mph on 11 June 1910. Is anything else known about this event? The note says "probably Duke of Portland Estate, Clipstone. Notts AC". can anyone confirm? Was this a one-off event? If it was a flying kilometre it was presumably a road quite a bit longer than that.
#38
Posted 04 November 2019 - 08:59
A couple of currently used venues that fit the bill, private estates that run speed events, are Barbon Manor hillclimb and Werrington Park hillclimb. Barbon is used twice a year whilst Werrington operates just on a single Bank Holiday week-end.
#39
Posted 04 November 2019 - 16:13
I have a note that Louis Coatalen drove his ohv special "Nautilus" in Welbeck Flying Kilometre at 82 mph on 11 June 1910. Is anything else known about this event? The note says "probably Duke of Portland Estate, Clipstone. Notts AC". can anyone confirm? Was this a one-off event? If it was a flying kilometre it was presumably a road quite a bit longer than that.
The seat of the Dukes of Portland was Welbeck Abbey in Notts, but there doesn't seem to be any long straight(ish) road in the park there that could have accommodated this.
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#40
Posted 04 November 2019 - 17:01
Various newspapers, 13 Oct 1903
At Clipstone, Notts, yesterday, the Hon. CS Rolls,
driving a 110hp Mors racing automobile, succeeded
in breaking thw Welbeck flying kilometre record of
27 sec by completing the distance in 26 2-5 sec,
equal to 84.64 miles per hour. Four runs were made,
the third being the best. The attempts were timed
by Mr HJ Swindley and Mr D Straight, the official
timekeepers of the Automobile Club. The surface
of the course, though wet, was hard and fast.
Edited by Geoff E, 04 November 2019 - 17:01.
#41
Posted 04 November 2019 - 17:12
Hmm, Welbeck Abbey and Park are quite near Clipstone but you wouldn't routinely identify it thus. Around Clipstone are some Forestry Commission forests that were probably planted later, so perhaps there was something on the site of those back in 1910. But why you would then call it the Welbeck flying kilometre, I don't know.
Edit: OK on further delving, I find that the whole Clipstone area was part of the Duke's Welbeck Estate, hence the name. the road in question must have been somewhere there, but the area has changed hugely in the last 100 years, due to mining and forestry.
Edited by BRG, 04 November 2019 - 17:19.
#42
Posted 04 November 2019 - 17:33
Julian noted that, as much of the area to the west of Welbeck Abbey has been developed, Clipstone Drive is now difficult to identify.
ETA: Potted history of the Welbeck speed trials here:
https://www.britainb...clipstone-drive
#43
Posted 04 November 2019 - 19:46
Clipstone Drive is now difficult to identify.
https://www.britainb...clipstone-drive
On the page of Tim's link - "Today Clipstone Drive is largely a residential area, about half way between the former mining areas of Forest Town and Clipstone."
It shows on an old map and, on the juxtaposed satellite photo, is still called Clipstone Drive. https://maps.nls.uk/...8&right=BingHyb
#44
Posted 09 November 2019 - 17:31
Thank you gentlemen! I will delete the word "probably"!