Inaccurate models and poor research

Aaaaargh! (Again)  After following the link to the restored New York to Paris Thomas Flyer on the main forum I find that my Rio model is white with black lettering and brown seats when it should be grey with red lettering and red seats.  And there should be toolboxes and things on the running boards, etc etc.  It's taken me four years to find that out so i reckon I'll live with it.  As the Peking-Paris Itala is in the Turin Museum, I'm going to hope that Rio had a close look at it and got that one right.

Edited by D-Type, 01 November 2017 - 23:32.

The biscuit?

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item5d4e0d000c

The biscuit?

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item5d4e0d000c

At least the seller mentions the gaffe in his description. Perhaps that's why he was getting rid of it. Still, nice one Ixo - good to see all the research you did before manufacture.

At least the seller mentions the gaffe in his description. Perhaps that's why he was getting rid of it. Still, nice one Ixo - good to see all the research you did before manufacture.

Isn't that just a slight overeaction ?

For the record, IXO have released the 1959 Le Mans winner previously with the correct drivers named on the plinth :

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item5d4dc3200a

They have also previously released the sister #4 car of Moss & Fairman and the #6 car of Trintignant & Frere, both of which had the correct drivers names.

The model shown is a re-release and clearly wires got crossed in the factory resulting in a mix up between cars and drivers.

Does it really matter though ? 95% of collectors I know remove the cars from the bases to display them loose in their model cabinets.

It would matter if the buyer wanted the Moss/Fairman car!

Shouldn't the factory have a Quality Control/Management/Assurance system?

If the buyer specifically wanted the Moss / Fariman car you'd think they'd know what number it carried.

I'm sure they have quality control, but remember the Chinese quality control manager (shown below, from the IXO website) probably doesn't know who Moss is, let alone seen him race like those here on TNF.

Edited by Jager, 18 July 2014 - 07:34.

There's always one or two which slip through QC. At one time they would have been highly sought after, thankfully we don't seem to have that sort of collector any more!

This is a bit of an odd one since the base plate is wrong, so it shouldn't really have got anywhere near the assembly process. But then again how many, even on TNF, would have registered the mistake immediately?

If the buyer specifically wanted the Moss / Fariman car you'd think they'd know what number it carried.

 

I'm sure they have quality control, but remember the Chinese quality control manager (shown below, from the IXO website) probably doesn't know who Moss is, let alone seen him race like those here on TNF.

 

I don't know the race number offhand.  A dealer wouldn't either.  He would advertise the car as something like the "Moss/Fairman Le Mans Aston Matin" and wouldn't put the number in the advert.  The buyer would buy it.  And may or may not discover the mistake.

This isn't a simple case of the wrong model being put on the base or in the box.  The base has been manufactured incorrectly.  A clear quality management failure as the mistake found its way through to the production line.

I don't know the race number offhand.  A dealer wouldn't either.  He would advertise the car as something like the "Moss/Fairman Le Mans Aston Matin" and wouldn't put the number in the advert.  The buyer would buy it.  And may or may not discover the mistake.

 

This isn't a simple case of the wrong model being put on the base or in the box.  The base has been manufactured incorrectly.  A clear quality management failure as the mistake found its way through to the production line.

Hopefully the dealer might even advertise it as the "Moss/Fairman Le Mans Aston Martin" .

Hopefully the dealer might even advertise it as the "Moss/Fairman Le Mans Aston Martin" .

Precisely.  No.5 would be Salvadori/Shelby while Moss/Fairman should be No.4 and not No.5.

I don't know the race number offhand.  A dealer wouldn't either.  He would advertise the car as something like the "Moss/Fairman Le Mans Aston Matin" and wouldn't put the number in the advert.  The buyer would buy it.  And may or may not discover the mistake.

Hopefully the dealer might even advertise it as the "Moss/Fairman Le Mans Aston Martin" .

Precisely.  No.5 would be Salvadori/Shelby while Moss/Fairman should be No.4 and not No.5.

Sorry, you completely missed my sacasm. You spelt Aston Martin wrong, which I thought somewhat ironic given the topic of this thread.

CMC have released a revised 1:18 scale version of the Mercedes-Benz Renntransporter 'Blue Wonder'.

The revisions,

from the web.....

Changes from the original version are:
 

- Chromed Wheel
- Mercedes Symbol on the hood
- Auxiliary head lamps with orange lens.
- Stone Guards on the rear fenders,
- Lights for rear licence plate
- “D” Marking on the bumper
- Max speed decal removed

https://www.cmc-mode...eitete-version/

I think, in terms of character, I prefer the first release of the model, with its blue wheels and the little max speed warning, atop and aft the rear fender.

Inaccuracy on full-size cars also a problem. Jaguar Sport displayed this "1990 Le Mans winner" at the Abingdon airshow in 1991. Spot the mistake:

RS2000, did the G Hill  Scaletric RAC mini have front mud flaps?

Inaccuracy on full-size cars also a problem. Jaguar Sport displayed this "1990 Le Mans winner" at the Abingdon airshow in 1991. Spot the mistake:

 

Easy.  They've replaced the nearside rear wheel with boxes.

Inaccuracy on full-size cars also a problem. Jaguar Sport displayed this "1990 Le Mans winner" at the Abingdon airshow in 1991. Spot the mistake:

 

My budget (£2.50 at a toyfayre) model from an unknown Chinese maker got it right and shows Nielsen, Cobb and Salazar as the listed drivers.  Jaguar totally legally played musical chairs, Brundle replaced Salazar when his car was eliminated.  They obviously didn't have time at the pit stops to sign write the change.
Isn't this a bit like the Monte Carlo Minis where the winning car was displayed in several main dealers simultaneously  (The number of dealers corresponding to the number of team cars and spares.)

Edited by D-Type, 22 January 2017 - 14:13.

Agreed: this was Sunday morning (poor photo, but better than I felt at the time), so the change wasn't made during the race (ironically Brundle at the wheel). I think the 'Abingdon' car was actually No.4 at LM '90.

Edited by sabrejet, 22 January 2017 - 15:16.

RS2000, did the G Hill  Scaletric RAC mini have front mud flaps?

To their credit, Scalextric's latest range of Classic F.1 cars is beautifully made (but I wish I could get the thing apart) and the detail on them is superb but, oh dear, the driver's helmet is so wrong....

I have never been into Scalextric but happened to see a display of the current range today.  I was gobsmacked by the detail.  I thought they were toys, but these looked like proper scale models.  ALthough why they chose to make a Lotus 72 'as driven by Tony Trimmer' is a bit of a mystery?  

Do these cars actually work OK on the track?

A friend very kindly bought me the Scalextric Zandvoort 1970 Jochen Rindt Lotus 72 for my birthday. Lovely model, which runs really well, but for some reason they've given Jochen a black full-face helmet, which slightly spoils it... I too was slightly mystified to see a Tony Trimmer 72, which I think was released before Rindt's car! Regardless, it's good to see Scalextric releasing old F1 cars.

What is it with Scalextric and helmets? Most of their fine range of current and recent models are spoiled by inaccurate helmets. If it's not the colour, it's the shape. And why do all the tin-top drivers (ancient or modern) have intercom microphones?

When they announced they were going to model Stuart Graham's Camaro, the prototype illustrated showed Stuart wearing an open-face helmet which he never wore during his car racing career. I wrote to Scalextric sending them period photos to prove the point, for which they thanked me. I know that Stuart also advised them of this but when it was released quite some time after the first announcement, the open-face helmet was still there. Very frustrating,

At least with some of the modern drivers there are licensing issues with the helmets, getting a licence to make a model of the car doesn't mean you have one to model the driver's helmet.

Apart from logistical issues there are also cost issues with making a load of different helmets, moulds for mass produced injection moulded items don't come cheap.

Of course fitting a closed helmet when you have an open one available is probably just laziness but there could be a logistical reason.

The latest - at Goodwood today I bought a model of a Lotus Seven.  On getting it home I find it is left hand drive!     Well, what can I expect for £6.00!  And the car's held together with those silly triangular headed screws which will make it harder to take apart and remedy.  

And at 1:1, Porsche appear to have two Le Mans winning hybrids. One in the garage with the other Porsches, complete with all the muck, and another immaculate one on their main stand.  

Edited by D-Type, 02 July 2017 - 18:22.

 

And at 1:1, Porsche appear to have two Le Mans winning hybrids. One in the garage with the other Porsches, complete with all the muck, and another immaculate one on their main stand.  

You missed one.  There is yet another 'Le Mans winning #2 car' in the Porsche Cafe by the main bridge!

Shades of Monte Carlo Rally winning Minis!  Each year they won all the team cars would be renumberewd with the winning number and dispatched to main dealers in different parts of the country.  I'm not sure whether they had their number plates changed or not.

But three in the same place!       

Back to the post that I started the thread with

Today at a toyfair I saw a model I haven't seen before and promptly paid out a fiver for it. It was an old Vitesse model of the 1962 Safari winning VW (it's "Limited Edition L002" so it must be one of their first)

It's a nice little red model with rally numbers, rally plates, the correct registration numbers and spotlights in the right places. But it's left hand drive ~  Poor research or no research by Vitesse.

Etc . . .

I have now found out that the car was not red but was actually grey.

What can I say?      

Edited by D-Type, 20 August 2017 - 21:22.

Back in the summer in a French car boot sale, I found a reasonable looking 1:43 model of the cycle winged Le Mans Talbot, No 5. It cost me 5 Euros, which at the time seemed like a good deal. It was only when I got back to the UK and unpacked it along with a few other little treasures, that I was rather taken aback to find that it was apparently a V12 having 6 exhaust branches coming out from each side of the bonnet and exhaust pipes along both sides of the car. How could I have not spotted that before I bought it?

I suspect that it was part of a 'part work' series, which the French seem to do a lot of and I understand that the models supplied in these are produced in the far east and taken from the obsolete moulds of the established model manufacturers. If this is the case then I would be interested to know which company was the original manufacturer. Can anyone help?

Oh - and the off side exhaust system was soon removed with a hot scalpel.

Oooops...

https://www.ebay.co....nMAAOSwNkJaGBRk

"“1/43 Scale Hand-Built White Metal Model By Mike Stephens Of Western Models. In 1973 Mike Formed Western Models With Two Friends. Besides Running This Company, Mike Made All The 4-View Scale Drawings For The Pattern Makers To Work From.Mike Stephens / Western Models Produced Prototypes For Various Model Manufacturers.Mercedes W196 Streamline #722 Stirling Moss Car Please See Pictures For Best Description.The Model Is An Early Prototype And As Such May Have Some Imperfections.The Item Pictured Is What We Will Be Sending.The Box Is In Excellent Condition.Slightly Worn.Plain White Signed Box.”

not a W196 Streamliner - no windscreen and wrong, 4-spoke, steering wheel to boot.  But perhaps this sort of thing (if, indeed, Mike Stephens of Western Models, did think he was producing a W196 Streamliner 1:43 prototype) is where those who later buy up old stock, moulds and patterns get their misinformation from.

Yours for only £199.99 (free p+p).

Hi Malcolm, long time no speak. As you, me and I'm sure Mike Stephens are aware this is a 300SLR. Clearly placed in the wrong box. Back in the day it used to be said that JM toys just sold 'em with no real knowledge of what they were selling. I've noticed that successors RM Toys sell a lot more secondhand hand built stuff, I would have thought Russell would have noticed the mistake.

Hi Rod. Long time indeed, not least because I have more or less given up adding to my collection - although our mutual friend Barry B builds and/or repaints the occasional one for me. I no longer have the dexterity to do even that.  I might have known that you would know the probable back-story to this one - but why or how on earth would anyone think that an incomplete (and inaccurate) prototype model of an already much-modelled car is worth £200?  Incidentally, the reason that so many models of this and other Moss-driven Mercedes cars appeared with four-spoke instead of three-spoke steering wheels is that the standard wheel had four spokes but Moss, who preferred three spokes, had his own wheel which went with him from car to car.  When Mercedes pulled out of racing at the end of 1955 they asked Moss is there was anything he wanted to keep as a souvenir and he asked for his three-spoke wheel. So they took it off the car, gave it to him and replaced it with the standard four-spoke before putting the car into the MB museum in Stuttgart. Then when the fashion for modelling the cars took hold the pattern makers worked from photographs and sketches of the cars in the museum, without checking original sources and photographs.  This I was told by the Man Himself, who has the wheel hanging on the wall of his house, along with the bent steering wheels from his two bad crashes. (Not all pattern makers, I should say in fairness to the good ones - my own 1:43 model of this car, built from an SMTS kit has the correct steering wheel, supplied by them - but on my 1:18 Maisto I had to remove and re-model the steering wheel.)  And since I am being in such particular anorak mode I might as well point out that the colour of the seat upholstery is wrong also. Moss's personal colour was blue checker pattern, not red.

RM Toys, as did JM in the past tend to price everything high, I suspect on the principle that prices can come down but their may be some sucker prepared to buy it.

I remember a story from long ago that if Fangio or Moss were ever in need of a car anywhere in the world they only had to contact MB and one would arrive for them. If possible Moss's car would turn up with his 3 spoke steering wheel!

And yet another!  The Best model of the winning E-Type on its debut at Oulton Park (no. 9036) is the wrong colour!    Aaaaaargh!

 

And yet another!  The Best model of the winning E-Type on its debut at Oulton Park (no. 9036) is the wrong colour!    Aaaaaargh!

 

Back in the day when I was a dealer I used to like dealing with Best, they were friendly and straightforward, some of their later models were good for the price and I liked the fact that they were still manufacturing in Italy. Their E Type was never very clever! I seem to recall that their Coombs E Type was white rather than grey and their Lumsden/Sargent Le Mans '62 car was little more than a coupe with the right numbers. 

When I saw this in a second-hand shop I just had to buy it.

When I saw this in a second-hand shop I just had to buy it.

 

Think I've got one of those and also one with a yellow Lotus!

When I saw this in a second-hand shop I just had to buy it.

 

Which of course begs a debate as to whether anyone actually ever raced a red Vanwall, other than Corgi ?!!!!  

A few months ago, I almost bought a new Norev 1/43 model of white Ford Mustang No. 184 – presumably a reproduction of the car Jean-Louis Trintignant drove in “A Man and a Woman”. It is low-budget model, of course but it would be nice to have it in collection, as it is an iconic car.

Then something odd struck my eye… It is a 1968. Mustang, ok, it says so on the box as well… But then I remembered that movie itself has been released in 1966. It still p***** me off why they even bothered to intentionally reproduce something so obviously wrong.

On the other hand, you can’t always control what you are dealing with… And most of the buyers don’t care anyway.

Some years ago, I oversaw a series of 1/43 models aimed for the countries of former Yugoslavia. Not related to racing but I believe it might show you some of the problems. Had a lot of battles with (Chinese) manufacturers about the details, not always successful.

For example, they already produced a model of Yugo for Polish market and it was labeled as an early model (Jugo 45) but with a lot of discrepancies, including having headrests. Fortunately, we were allowed to change some exterior details and thus issued it as a Jugo 45A, shortly produced interim model of 1984-1985 that actually introduced headrests…

Then they offered me a Renault 4 model with complete mixture of details from 1970’s TL series and 1980’s GTL series. I send them list of small modifications needed to make it either of those and never got a reply. Then, a year later, they sent me pics of the final model – all initial mistakes still present. Being in charge of Croatian series, I refused to issue so obviously wrong model. But it was issued in Slovenian series and you can guess what happened – Croatian collectors bought all the models they could find, even for crazy prices, not caring about the accuracy.

My friend Peter owned the company responsible for Sylvanian Families and Etch-A-Sketchamong others. He, directly, employed quality control inspectors in each of the factories producing his goods. One day, one of his inspectors noticed a change in the shade of red on one of the models, on enquiring as to why, was told that they had run out of the original stock so went out and bought some red paint - He immediately stopped production and had the paint tested. it contained enough lead to protect a nuclear power station! Unsurprisingly he wasn't very popular. When we produced the "Tango Man" for a well known soft drinks company we employed Inchcape to quality control production on a daily basis - we had no rejects. Chinese manufacturers, being part of a Communist culture, had little concern for quality in the early days, fortunately they have improved a great deal since then. The collapse of the USSR released an avalanche lunatic bargain basement offers, we were once offered a couple of Mig fighters - Quite what they thought a plastic moulding company would to do with them they never told us. Then there was the 50 tons of iron pellets which turned out to be highly radioactive...

Edited by Bloggsworth, 07 December 2022 - 16:54.

And while we’re on the subject of errors by model manufacturers (well, aren’t we?) I noticed recently that Spark, purveyor of extremely good but sadly rather expensive models, seem to have made a fundamental error on one of their 1953 single seaters.

During 1953 there were two F.2 OSCAs turning up together at races - 7 times by my count - and almost without exception they were driven by Elie Bayol and Louis Chiron.  Spark have produced the car numbered 32 and it is titled Chiron, French Grand Prix 1953.  If you Google this car, every black and white photo show it to be a very light shade indeed.  I assume it to be light blue although as Monagasque there isn’t really any reason for Chiron to have a blue OSCA, but a recently located (by me) colour photo of the car at that race shows that it really was light blue.

The Spark model is red.

Barry, I've had a look on the website of most major Spark dealers but can't find any reference to the Osca you refer to?

However, this model appears frequently, but its not from Spark.

According to the background, it was built by Villa Model based on a TW Collection kit.

However, I agree it appears it should be blue:

Ah, my mistake, Ian.  Apologies to Spark.

Best ever confirmation of the blue OSCA.

Chiron ?

Yes.

Ah, my mistake, Ian.  Apologies to Spark.

 

Best ever confirmation of the blue OSCA.

The photo has been "colorized", it says so bottom right corner.