Track Observations for Winter 2012 testing

http://peterwindsor....lona-testing-2/

good observations

What was that all about i've never heard of it?
Agree that peter can be abit OTT and says things that make him sound like he's talking BS.

horrible observations for my taste. Instead of analysing the cars, Windsor prefer to hype certain drivers, ie LH, and does some very ridiculous "analysis".

What does he knows about driving technique to make such remarks? I think he's just pleasing the masses and saying what the mayority of people wanna hear, ie LH is great.

Absolutely useless insights and I regret to have read it

Edited by Jovanotti, 22 February 2012 - 08:08.

Honestly, how can you compare Hamilton in the McLaren, arguably one of the best cars 2012, to Alonso in a still very unsettled Ferrari? Does Windsor say Alonso, of all drivers the one who had a monster of a qualy lap in Barcelona last year, doesn't now how to drive? Come on...

This topic is for getting feedback about the handlings of the cars. Because they may tell more than the lap times.

How a driver can drive a car may say a lot about his car too.

With comments like this :

"Given the radius that Fernando would proscribe, how did Lewis get the McLaren’s nose to tuck into Three? By superbly soft initial steering inputs and velvety use of the throttle. "

how can anyone take PW seriously ...

Maybe a bit harsh, but I fully agree with you here. If Windsor understands as much of F1 driving technique as he pretends in his articles, he should consider using another language, cause now you have to think he is just a noob who claims to see more than there actually is, hiding it with an ornate writing style.

Another thing he doesn't seem to understand (considering his observations from the Jerez test) is that quite naturally, different drivers use different lines through corners - with none of them being necessarily better or worse than others! The best example I can think of is Räikkönens Silverstone pole 2004, where Brundle mentions that he takes a much wider line through Club Corner than Schumacher - I guess Windsor would have come up with something like "giving away 70cm at the exit, and hereinafter losing 60, maybe 65 rpm". I doubt he has access to telemetry, and even if he has, he still doesnt know anything about exact fuel loads and various other settings from the car.

Honestly, how can you compare Hamilton in the McLaren, arguably one of the best cars 2012, to Alonso in a still very unsettled Ferrari? Does Windsor say Alonso, of all drivers the one who had a monster of a qualy lap in Barcelona last year, doesn't know how to drive? Come on...

Well of course, but PW clearly implies that Hamiltons driving was the one and only factor for going around the corner better than Alonso, doesnt he?

Firstly, Windsor does not comment on minute differences like 70cm. He comments about visible differences... A good couple of metres etc.

Edited by Oho, 22 February 2012 - 08:37.

Well just recently he noted how at Jerez Räikkönen turned in for turn 4 about meter later than Webber and Schumahcer and drifted wide too early for that, he went further to note that under steer Räikkönen might pin it on would only be a lame excuse. So he does actually dwell in quite a bit of detail and is presumptuous as hell.

Edited by maverick69, 22 February 2012 - 08:56.

Sorry. Maybe I'm being cynical. But the reaction here seems to be more around his somewhat overly gushing praise of L. Hamilton. Would some of you have been that riled if it had been on another driver (as it has been many times in the past)? I doubt it...... very much.

It's a shame really - because there are some valid trackside observations of both cars and drivers alike in there..... which is the title of this once unflamed thread...... Although I have to say that the style of writing is perhaps not my cup of tea and a result it takes a little bit of sifting to get a better understanding.


Maybe the title of the thread should be: Track Observations for Winter 2012 testing*

* Just don't mention the H word

Well just recently he noted how at Jerez Räikkönen turned in for turn 4 about meter later than Webber and Schumahcer and drifted wide too early for that, he went further to note that under steer Räikkönen might pin it on would only be a lame excuse. So he does actually dwell in quite a bit of detail and is presumptuous as hell.

Well, a meter is a far cry from 70cm isn't it... It is about a quarter of the cars length so to a keen eye it is definitely visible.

Sorry. Maybe I'm being cynical. But the reaction here seems to be more around his somewhat overly gushing praise of L. Hamilton. Would some of you have been that riled if it had been on another driver (as it has been many times in the past)? Infact, would you have even noticed it? I doubt it...... very much.

It's a shame really - because there are some valid trackside observations of both cars and drivers alike in there.....

Sorry. Maybe I'm being cynical. But the reaction here seems to be more around his somewhat overly gushing praise of L. Hamilton. Would some of you have been that riled if it had been on another driver (as it has been many times in the past)? Infact, would you have even noticed it? I doubt it...... very much.

It's a shame really - because there are some valid trackside observations of both cars and drivers alike in there..... which is the title of this once unflamed thread...... Although I have to say that the style of writing is perhaps not my cup of tea and a result it takes a little bit of sifting to get a better understanding.


Maybe the title of the thread should be: Track Observations for Winter 2012 testing*

* Just don't mention the H word

good post and I want to agree with everything you say but isn't that basically what you Macca (and Ferrari) fans are doing with AMuS? Getting riled up and dismissing everything they report because they looove Vettel?

good post and I want to agree with everything you say but isn't that basically what you Macca (and Ferrari) fans are doing with AMuS? Getting riled up and dismissing everything they report because they looove Vettel?

Edited by Ferrari2183, 22 February 2012 - 09:40.

AMuS has some very good pieces but what they said yesterday defies belief... Implying that aero measurements done on the 5 day (with only the pitot tube on the car) suggests that Ferrari are in trouble. Only to find that Red Bull and McLaren were running rakes on the diffuser...

I personally don't dismiss articles but to assume DOOM when teams are testing with apparatus during the testing season is f@cking crazy and to top it all off they assume to to know the gaps between the teams and their fuel loads. Go and ask any engineer in the paddock and he will tell who looks the goods and who doesn't but he will never tell you the time gaps between teams because he just doesn't know. But AMuS does!

I don't deny that they make a lot of assumptions. But that's what every media does during testing. Some have inside sources some use their psychic ability . I take everything with a picnh of salt. But my point here was the double standards used ; defending PW's right to publish his thoughts and assumptions when others claim he's biased towards a specific driver and then ridiculing other media for basically doing the same.

Can you please give me a link to the article where AMuS claimed they know fuel loads? Because the only reference to fuel loads I saw, was yesterday in their Live-ticker. They were comparing Lewis and Hulk's times pointing out the different tyres but also said that 'we have no idea of course, of what the fuel loads are'.

Edited by maverick69, 22 February 2012 - 10:14.

I don't deny that they make a lot of assumptions. But that's what every media does during testing. Some have inside sources some use their psychic ability . I take everything with a picnh of salt. But my point here was the double standards used ; defending PW's right to publish his thoughts and assumptions when others claim he's biased towards a specific driver and then ridiculing other media for basically doing the same.

Can you please give me a link to the article where AMuS claimed they know fuel loads? Because the only reference to fuel loads I saw, was yesterday in their Live-ticker. They were comparing Lewis and Hulk's times pointing out the different tyres but also said that 'we have no idea of course, of what the fuel loads are'.

Edited by Ferrari2183, 22 February 2012 - 10:18.

Sorry. Maybe I'm being cynical. But the reaction here seems to be more around his somewhat overly gushing praise of L. Hamilton. Would some of you have been that riled if it had been on another driver (as it has been many times in the past)? Infact, would you have even noticed it? I doubt it...... very much.

It's a shame really - because there are some valid trackside observations of both cars and drivers alike in there..... which is the title of this once unflamed thread...... Although I have to say that the style of writing is perhaps not my cup of tea and a result it takes a little bit of sifting to get a better understanding.


Maybe the title of the thread should be: Track Observations for Winter 2012 testing*

* Just don't mention the H word

Windsor is not basing anything on assumptions in his piece he is desribing what he saw at the time in his style of writing.

AMuS said that Grosjean time in Jerez was set on 30kgs of fuel. They also said that Ferrari had the same amount of fuel on board when Alonso set his fastest time there and went on to extrapolate the gap based on tyres used. Anyway, I'm not going to derail this thread any further.

Edited by Gfhuus, 22 February 2012 - 11:37.

I come to this thread for actual trackside observations, not pages of jibba jabba.

I come to this thread for actual trackside observations, not pages of jibba jabba.

Edited by Brandz07, 22 February 2012 - 14:03.

Excellent link, which gives us a great insight into the driver skills I love how he describes Lewis´s godlike driving.

Edited by jjcale, 22 February 2012 - 18:05.

Exactly. I mean, could it be that the McLaren simply has more grip and can change direction using angles more acute than the Ferrari? No...it must be due to superbly soft oh I've got a hardon now steering inputs and velvety I'm thinking of a bed with velvet sheets with me in Lewis' arms use of the throttle. Gimme a break!

I read his friction circle article on F1 Racing too, and I find that one of the biggest bullshit to have ever been written.

I said it at the previous test when people were criticising Windsor's observations that all you had to do is look back to his Silverstone analysis. He found himself a position near at Maggots/Beckets/Chapel complex and from his observations could identify that the Ferrari of Alonso in particular was very quick through there, quicker than the Red Bulls. Lo and behold come race day this exactly how it transpired as it was the very sector where Alonso was making up buckets of time compared to others.

For all we know Hamilton really has that curve down to a science but Alonso might make up time somewhere else on the circuit.

Edited by Kubiccia, 22 February 2012 - 19:21.

We are in the braking zone of curve 10. Poor Charles Pic in his old Virgin has its set of tires to scrub the screen. The Formula 1 newcomer needs miles. You can tell. "He runs the hairpin at the end of the line too tight," criticized Buemi. "At the corner exit width is still a car seat."

A little later, Lewis Hamilton comes to the same curve. "Did you see how beautiful the whole width of the road he uses when accelerating?"
...
The McLaren gets a good report from Buemi. "Them and Force India I like the best after Red Bull. Hamilton and Hulkenberg can slow down late and early on the gas. The car jerks not on the front when they accelerate."

Sebastian Vettel is on Wednesday afternoon, just in the first third of his race simulation - at the end of the first turns. "You can tell that Red Bull has the fuel on board. Everything is a track carrier. But still the car is very good. But we see that the tires are old. In turn 12 Seb slips sometimes." This is changing as the world champion inserts his first pit stop. On fresh soles of the Red Bull is back as a board.
....
Hulkenberg is however well through the chicane. "He gives forth at the beginning of time," reports to Buemi. "But look how early he can go back on the gas." The Force India will remain calm. Since the lap times do not lie. "Those have achieved a very good car." McLaren also gets praise here. "The McLaren looks good. The car has grip. Not quite as much as the Red Bull, but close." This gives us hope. McLaren in Jerez was not the music.
....
Finally passes by Fernando Alonso. Buemi frowns. "Oh dear, that does not look so good. Alonso plays with the gas. There traction is missing". Next, conjures up his Caterham Petrov through the bottleneck. The Russian is almost perpendicular to the corner entry. "The Petrov runs extremely hard. The Caterham is not so bad. They have made progress."

At Williams test driver Valtteri Bottas falls on Buemi: ".. He sits too deep in the cockpit because he can not see anything in Barcelona that is perhaps even more, but in Monte Carlo you've got a problem."

Sergio Perez in the Sauber drives on rails through the tight corners. Buemi wants the Sauber C31 even pronounce a word of praise, because he realizes that he is traveling on soft tires. "This may distort the picture. Just as the tank contents. At the moment in Sauber looks good. We have to see how it is when the tires on." A few laps later, the Mexicans fight already. Buemi feels vindicated: "You see, starting to lose the grip of the tires."
...
When we go back on the return trip to the paddock, Sebastien Buemi takes a conclusion. "The Red Bull lies ahead for me. Then come Force India and McLaren . They are not that far away. "

Edited by Raifosa, 22 February 2012 - 20:53.

Tell me how exactly this thread is racing along without any of us actually being at the track?

Any Observers?

Edited by PassWind, 22 February 2012 - 21:28.

Buemi's trackside thoughts:


AMuS

cookies to any kind German speaking soul that can provide a proper translation

Buemi's trackside thoughts:


AMuS

cookies to any kind German speaking soul that can provide a proper translation

I wish to have read that collumms.


You Ferrari fans still believe in that myth?

Ferrari was never faster than RBR at Silversone. Alonso was off pole, slower in all 3 sectors than RBR and only won because of very long pit stop of Vettel.


Really? When was proved that Lewis "has that curve down to science"? I have never seen any indication at all for this.

Crucial found these so credit to him.