Monza
Only due to diffrent strategy, Kimi still beat Kobayahi on equal strategy and he would beat Perez too if he would be such a bad qualifier
Posted 29 September 2012 - 21:14
Monza
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Posted 29 September 2012 - 21:19
Posted 29 September 2012 - 21:21
What about Canada? Grosjean and Perez were on a similar strategy, no?
Posted 29 September 2012 - 21:33
I see you agree with me, since you didn't name any of those supposedly many races that Sauber were faster than Lotus and you fake laughter is just cover for your lack of arguments
Posted 29 September 2012 - 21:36
dude, you're just right now.
Firstly you do post that Sauber was faster than everybody, Button apart, in Spa. Then you say they were never faster than Lotus
Logic is not your thing, is it?
Why will I bother to bring the obvious lot's of tracks where Sauber had more pace when I'm discussing with someone who deny logic?
Edited by korzeniow, 29 September 2012 - 21:37.
Posted 29 September 2012 - 21:42
Only due to diffrent strategy, Kimi still beat Kobayahi on equal strategy and he would beat Perez too if he would be such a bad qualifier
Posted 29 September 2012 - 21:50
Your method of covering up your lack of arguments went from laughter to insults.
You can as well stop this because I think most people can see for what you are
Edited by BetaVersion, 29 September 2012 - 21:55.
Posted 29 September 2012 - 21:51
see, everytime I would mention a track, you would then come with an excuse: "no, it was this and that"
In Spa it was because of the rainy Friday(same for everybody and setup is mostly for driver confort and not that much for speed, so wouldn't change Sauber beating Lotus as it didn't affect Mclaren dominant pace, for instance). In Monza, it was strategy. So why didn't Kimi go for a 1 stop, then? I answer that for you, because he couldn't be as fast as Sauber whilst having to conserve tires as well
Posted 29 September 2012 - 21:57
Oh, so you admit you preffer trolling over discussion
FYI Kimi was on one stopper too in Italy, but on diffrent strategy from Perez. Kobayashi was on the same strategy as Kimi though, as he too started from top 10. And it's common knowledge that Lotus and Sauber are good on the tyres. I doubt you could find anyone to agree with you that E20 is bad with preserving the tyres
It's pointles to speculate how Spa would have ended if not for the crash so technicaly Sauber didn't beat Lotus on pace there
Edited by BetaVersion, 29 September 2012 - 22:05.
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Posted 30 September 2012 - 09:41
Edited by Jimisgod, 30 September 2012 - 09:44.
Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:33
Well, for McLaren fans it's enough that one of their drivers finishes two times on the podium, and they will proclaim him as an expert for the certain track. It's been said that Hamilton is Monaco expert, and he has one win and one second place there. Before last year, Button finished on the podium just once in Suzuka, and after the win, he is now expert.And I gotta be honest, I don't understand why Button is so good round here. Sure he has won round here, but I would say Vettel is more of a Suzuka specialist than anyone.
Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:41
if you look at his record and consider the cars he has driven throughout his career, button is very good round suzuka.Well, for McLaren fans it's enough that one of their drivers finishes two times on the podium, and they will proclaim him as an expert for the certain track. It's been said that Hamilton is Monaco expert, and he has one win and one second place there. Before last year, Button finished on the podium just once in Suzuka, and after the win, he is now expert.
Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:43
Edited by muramasa, 30 September 2012 - 10:44.
Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:49
Not really if you havent got the car to win then you cantI see 2 podiums. The 4th in 2003 was impressive along with the 5th in 2005, but surely to be 'amazing' at a track, toy have to have won more than once?
Like Hamilton at Canada, or Vettel at Suzuka (a podium every time he raced there) or Alonso at Malaysia, Massa at Brazil.
I would say Button's best track is Australia.
Edited by zack1994, 30 September 2012 - 10:50.
Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:51
Posted 30 September 2012 - 10:56
I am sorry, but I don't agree. He has been occasionally very good, but when he was driving really good cars in Suzuka, he managed to get a great result just once, and that was last year. For example, Barrichello beat him in 2009, McLaren was faster than Ferrari in 2010 at Suzuka and yet he was behind Alonso both in Q and in the race, also he was slower than Hamilton in Q but Lewis had a 5 place penalty because of gearbox change. Sato also outqualified him in 2004, when BAR was the second best car. I am not saying that he is not driving well there, but an expert would certainly need to do more.if you look at his record and consider the cars he has driven throughout his career, button is very good round suzuka.
Posted 30 September 2012 - 11:04
for example, if you call him an expert at any track, I would say that track is Australia. 3 wins and 2 pole positions. He is very good round there, but I don't see how he is thaty good round Suzuka, that is all.Not really if you havent got the car to win then you cant
You should judge it on the cars they have had throughout there career.
Posted 30 September 2012 - 11:05
Well, for McLaren fans it's enough that one of their drivers finishes two times on the podium, and they will proclaim him as an expert for the certain track. It's been said that Hamilton is Monaco expert, and he has one win and one second place there. Before last year, Button finished on the podium just once in Suzuka, and after the win, he is now expert.
Posted 30 September 2012 - 11:10
it was team's mistake, team wanted to be on safe side maybe but his time was clearly safe enough. Even I was like "wtf...? ".I think Kamui made a big mistake last year by trying to please the crowd going fastest in Q2, and wasting a set of soft tyres.
It backfired in the race because he was on a compromised strategy and ended up out of the points, while Perez picked up a few.
He has to get the strategy right this time as the Sauber should be plenty fast.
Posted 30 September 2012 - 11:15
I have already written that when he actually had good cars, he wasn't that good, except in 2011. I would say Australia and Hockenheim are his best tracks. In 2004, he drove a really great race at Hockenheim, in 2005, 2006, and 2012 he was also verry good there.And for his non-fans they don't actually read what is said and twist the words to suit their agenda.
No one said he was an expert, just that he does well at Suzuka, and that's true. He has a very good record there and lack of podiums and wins is more todo with the quality of the cars.
Edited by BorkoF2012, 30 September 2012 - 11:16.
Posted 30 September 2012 - 11:18
I have already written that when he actually had good cars, he wasn't that good, except in 2011. I would say Australia and Hockenheim are his best tracks. In 2004, he drove a really great race at Hockenheim, in 2005, 2006, and 2012 he was also verry good there.
Posted 30 September 2012 - 11:19
Posted 30 September 2012 - 11:26
Posted 30 September 2012 - 11:39
I think Kamui made a big mistake last year by trying to please the crowd going fastest in Q2, and wasting a set of soft tyres.
It backfired in the race because he was on a compromised strategy and ended up out of the points, while Perez picked up a few.
He has to get the strategy right this time as the Sauber should be plenty fast.
Edited by race addicted, 30 September 2012 - 11:42.
Posted 30 September 2012 - 11:43
Jenson visited SUGO circuit in Miyagi pref, one of areas affected by 311 earthquakes and tsunami.
seems the visit was in part about filming documentary program by NHK, japan's public TV.
http://www.f1-stinge...t803/041835.php
Posted 30 September 2012 - 11:47
Bluntly, I've never fully understood the hype around Suzuka. I've found all of the previous three races there quite dull and the track doesn't seem spectacular enough to make up for that. Maybe this is the year that changes my mind.
Posted 30 September 2012 - 12:52
Posted 30 September 2012 - 13:00
Posted 30 September 2012 - 13:03
If I was Kobayashi, I'd try to get one of Perez's funky strategies and hope to drive it onto the podium.
1. K. Kobayashi
2. K. Raikkonen
3. M. Schumacher
4. L. Hamilton
5. J. Button
6. S. Perez
7. R. Grosjean
8. N. Hulkenberg
9. M. Webber
10. D. Ricciardo
Would be nice.
Alonso tangles with Vettel, and the WDC opens up.
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Posted 30 September 2012 - 13:06
Rubens did beat him but if you look at there race pace button was quicker.I am sorry, but I don't agree. He has been occasionally very good, but when he was driving really good cars in Suzuka, he managed to get a great result just once, and that was last year. For example, Barrichello beat him in 2009, McLaren was faster than Ferrari in 2010 at Suzuka and yet he was behind Alonso both in Q and in the race, also he was slower than Hamilton in Q but Lewis had a 5 place penalty because of gearbox change. Sato also outqualified him in 2004, when BAR was the second best car. I am not saying that he is not driving well there, but an expert would certainly need to do more.
Posted 30 September 2012 - 13:06
dream on, if that's the grid I will eat a cat.
Posted 30 September 2012 - 13:13
Posted 30 September 2012 - 13:33
Wonder what they'd have done had they had to cancel the race if we were there this weekend. Not possible to reschedule, so I guess it'd have been 1 race less in the championship with no points awarded, though it would've obviously been annoying to go to Japan, get everything ready, be on track for 2 days and then not race. Definitely got lucky in the sense that we're not there this weekend.
Posted 30 September 2012 - 13:35
dream on, if that's the grid I will eat a cat.
Posted 30 September 2012 - 13:35
How old are you? Suzuka produce pretty good race especially when it was the season Finale. The Prost-Senna moment, Kimi on Fisichella 2005, Alonso on Schumacher at 130R, 2003 Japanese GP.Bluntly, I've never fully understood the hype around Suzuka. I've found all of the previous three races there quite dull and the track doesn't seem spectacular enough to make up for that. Maybe this is the year that changes my mind.
Posted 30 September 2012 - 13:36
Well there was the year when Q was cancelled on Saturday and run on Sunday instead. Has a race weekend ever been cancelled due to unforeseen circumstances?
Edited by HuddersfieldTerrier1986, 30 September 2012 - 13:38.
Posted 30 September 2012 - 13:40
Yeah but that year they still got the race in. Also Spa in 85 (it may have been that year, can't remember exactly) was postponed during the race weekend if memory serves, that was in June and was then moved to September, but obviously with a race at this stage of the season, it'd be extremely difficult to reschedule at such short notice.
Posted 30 September 2012 - 13:42
Edited by HuddersfieldTerrier1986, 30 September 2012 - 13:42.
Posted 30 September 2012 - 13:45
How old are you? Suzuka produce pretty good race especially when it was the season Finale. The Prost-Senna moment, Kimi on Fisichella 2005, Alonso on Schumacher at 130R, 2003 Japanese GP.
Posted 30 September 2012 - 13:48
How old are you? Suzuka produce pretty good race especially when it was the season Finale. The Prost-Senna moment, Kimi on Fisichella 2005, Alonso on Schumacher at 130R, 2003 Japanese GP.
Posted 30 September 2012 - 13:53
Button has a pretty good record at suzuka always been in the top 8 and finished everytime
2000 5th
2001 7th
2002 6th
2003 4th
2004 3rd
2005 5th
2006 4th
2009 8th
2010 4th
2011 1st
Posted 30 September 2012 - 13:57
Edited by HuddersfieldTerrier1986, 30 September 2012 - 13:57.
Posted 30 September 2012 - 13:59
Not too sure I'd say 2 podiums in 10 races there is a pretty good record. Yeah he's been in the top 8 every time, but a pretty good record over the course of 10 races would be 2-4 wins, another 2-3 podiums and a few other top 6 finishes.
Posted 30 September 2012 - 14:00
Posted 30 September 2012 - 14:06
Posted 30 September 2012 - 14:25
Either race on Sat or Monday.Wonder what they'd have done had they had to cancel the race if we were there this weekend. Not possible to reschedule, so I guess it'd have been 1 race less in the championship with no points awarded, though it would've obviously been annoying to go to Japan, get everything ready, be on track for 2 days and then not race. Definitely got lucky in the sense that we're not there this weekend.
Edited by muramasa, 30 September 2012 - 14:57.
Posted 30 September 2012 - 14:46
Posted 30 September 2012 - 14:57
If Sunday's race will be cancel it's possible to postpone it for Monday?
Edited by HuddersfieldTerrier1986, 30 September 2012 - 14:58.
Posted 30 September 2012 - 16:21
dream on, if that's the grid I will eat a cat.
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Posted 30 September 2012 - 16:41
haha sorry in advance if it all goes wrongWhy do i get the feeling you have jinxed him