Did you ever cheat?

Honesty here please,

If this is a repeat thread i apologise.

Come on get it of your chest you will feel better!

I'll start the ball rolling, I did cheat once.

It was at Mallory park i think in 78 or 79. my 250 went kaput in practice.

So, being clever little buggers or brothers actually, i am going to blame this on my brother Bob.

He made me do it HONEST

We put the 250 pipes and fairing on the 350 , and went out on that.

The plan was not to make it look to easy, but have a slow first lap and gradually get through.

First straight they all buggered of and left me for dead.

That was the only time we cheated and a lesson was learned.

Come on lads its 30 40 years ago and nobodys going to ask for the trophy back.

Bill Pentelow

I did ride a 347 Yamaha with yellow plates in a 351-500cc race (this I have already confessed to) but apart from that my halo never slipped (as far as I can remember).

I am not surprised the 350 didn't perform with the 250 pipes.

Probably wishful thinking on my , i mean my brothers part.

I will admit to being able to land in the saddle of my bike just as the flag dropped on the odd occasion

Same as Tony really, the Fablon 'cheat' although I've never regarded it as such. When I got my 350D I thought right I've arrived, now let's get some results, but I found it very hard, as did a lot of riders to get 350 entries at Bemsee meetings as they were always massively over subscribed, so I migrated over to the 500 class with some yellow plates, and started to get a few good results then one meeting at Snett they had an on the spot engine measuring session after the first race and half the grid got chucked out including all the front runners except Dennis Casement who was given the win on his genuine 375 TZ750 cylinder bike. Everyone was up in arms and there were lots rows going on, they would end up with 15 bikes on the grid if it was not for the 'oversize' Yams, but just like the Bemsee of old they would not budge, apparently there had been rumblings from some of the other 500 riders that there was an unfair advantage running a 350 because converting to a 351/2 took the edge off the power, which was total rubbish in fact the opposite was true, Roger Keen always said it was simple to make stroked TZ go better than a standard bike due to the port timing change, mine certainly did, it would gain 2- 300 rpm by raising the barrel with 2 or 3 base gaskets to make up for the longer stroke and to get the compression and squish back to normal and then trimming a couple of mm off the piston skirts to compensate for the higher inlet port.

Way back when there was a 250 learner limit, I attended an advanced riding course - to shorten the provisional licencing period.

I was riding a T 350 Suzuki which had a set of expansion chambers & 250 stickers fitted to it,

A snotty rich boy riding a brand spanking new RD 250 was willing to wager  money that his RD could whip the ol' Suzuki..

He was wrong..

&, so..

I took his money..

Was that cheating? 

Nope that's business

I currently have a roadbike Yamaha RDLC that I have slotted a tuned H2 750/3 unit into,

& it is fairly sprightly.. ..able to surprise & perhaps embarrass some otherwise unsuspecting would-be sporting types.. 

Is it cheating not to have '750' emblazoned on the sidecovers?

At Jehonville in 1995 I gridded up in the pre-1972 250 race on a 250 Ducati.  Next to me was an early RD250 fitted with a TZ250 engine, I couldn't believe it, there's bending the rules, cheating and just taking the piss.  The bloke took off from the line like a rocket and disappeared, I had a little chuckle half way through the race when I passed his broken down machine beside the track.

No pre-race scrutineering there, then R127,

- or did he deliberately pull off to avoid post race protest-type issues? 

_{He was a local hotshot and the organisers turned a blind eye to it.  The following year he rode a pukka 350TZ in the correct class and walked away from everyone immediately after destroying the pre-1956 field on 500 Norton International....all while wearing green wellies.}

Edited by Robin127, 18 January 2014 - 02:01.

I recall that certain racers running Methanol burning machines..

..were not averse to spiking it with a splash ( or 3) of Nitro-methane, too..

A certain ex international rider, who shall remain nameless ( hint: first winning TZ700) on returning to the grid in the early 80's cooked up his RG250WD proddie. We rebuilt it with RM125 pistons, which were 2mm larger; Became a RG275WD

Yeah, & down-under 'Proddie' racing was meant to be strictly showroom stock ( even if it was Wanganui Suzuki Centre S-S..),

Here's an infamous example of getting busted after taking the 'win'..

http://www.deejay51....x_hour_1974.htm

& these guys would put their petrol in the freezer to make their thirsty H2 run better, longer on a denser load..

http://www.deejay51....x_hour_1975.htm  ..don't know if that was actually 'cheating' though..

Oh forgot , i use to cheat at Mallory regularly on the start line,

The Starter , cant remember his name bald bloke about 50?  used to place his foot down on the top step just before he would drop the flag.

My signal to go! 

Only failed once , the starter saw me go and never dropped the flag, boy did i have a lead into Gerrards, looked behind at the hairpin NOT A SOUL?

They started without me and only gave me a minutes penalty , i think i finished third?

But is this cheating or gamesmanship ?

Perhaps Dave East can remember this one? pretty certain he was there?

B-P, its only cheating if you get busted, then its an oops,

Unless you are Marquez..

Is this BMW test-ride a cheat?

Or karma, for their cheating?

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=MGFuiqfI1ZU

Edited by JAW, 19 January 2014 - 06:39.

Beaker looks shocked!

I ran various Suzuki, Kawasaki & Yamaha's in the unlimited Production class during the 80's & 90's

Cheating was rife, Gorilla large bore kits, air box mods, compression increase by removing layers of head gasket, cams etc etc 

Most of the Suzuki 1100's had work done by Leon Moss of L.E.D.A.R, it wasn't unusual to hear tales of 118bhp at the rear wheel after Leon had worked his magic. 

Lotus (Yes) tuned one of the uni-track GPZ1100 front runners bike, it was a missile but what they actually did???

I did have 2 FZR Yamaha engines blue printed by Pete Harrison...cheated no.

Was Avgas considered a cheat?

Osmaston manor track 50/60's had a no passing zone around the back of the circuit & the starting grid was drawing TT balls with #'s painted on them from a hat I drew #2 flag dropped & off we went caught the pole man at the beginning of the zone & went straight past won the race & waited for the poo to hit the fan Nothing was said & at days end I received my entry money+£5 winning I kept stum  can't make up my mind if it was cheating or not

We all know of some surely?

McElnea was done in the Loctite Yam days for running oversize lumps?

Ian Duffus too in a TT was found to do the same I am sure.

Like many others on here I had a TZ350 on yellow plates - I used to go to Cadwell a lot and at the National meetings (no 500 class) there we all were on blue plates looking at each other suspiciously!

Seriously, the main thing was that at a club meeting with separate 350 and 500 classes the unwritten rule was that you only rode in one or the other - pick your plate colour and stick to it - trying to do both on the same bike was frowned on.

One event I did (on yellow plates) was a Midland MCRC event where I came in from the 500 race, did a quick fairing swap and the handed my bike to Pete Lovell for the 350 race. A lad with an orange jacket next door looked at us and said "That's cheating, I'm going to put in a protest!"

"Fine", I said, "but you might like to know Pete is the Club Chairman and I'm the Secretary!"

No more was heard......

This from Bill Milne's IOM Competitors profile. This was in 1968, the year Jock got a Junior/Seniou double.and 10th in the Lightweight/

The year Jock Findlay from Bonnyrigg won the 500 Manx GP, Bill came third on a 350 AJS. It was against the rules to ride a 350 in the Senior, but Bill made it no secret that he was riding a 7R. After the race he was brought in front of a 14 man committee, the Chairman demanding an explanation. Bill said he had "paid his money and wanted a canter", "Some canter," said a voice from the back. Bill however, agreed the rules were the rules and was duly disqualified. Some years later a peace offering came from the same committee in the form of an oil painting of himself airborne at Ballaugh Bridge on an Aermacchi Metisse.

Compared to the 'Fablon Five Hundreds' is this still cheating?

I remember in the early 1980's there was a meeting at Oulton Park which had big prize money on offer. One well known competitor (a former British Champion and GP rider) was entered on a TZ250 for the 250 event.  In the end in rained hard all day and he noticed the the 500 cc event had grid spaces, so he got a late entry and just put yellow plates on the 250. After a brilliant start he finished (I think) 3rd or 4th and bagged a few hundred in prize money!

Cheating...yes, but I was glad nobody protested.

Yes, I guess I did.

I entered my 1965 Bridgestone 175 twin in the Formula 125 class at Willow Springs one year and took my first ever win. I usually run in the 200GP and bump to the 250GP class. I guy who I met previously racing a Honda MT125 came out to CA to "get some points". He wanted to know what class I was running and I said 200 and 250, but maybe F125. He said he was chasing some points and tried to discourage me. I signed up for F125 and beat him and one other entrant. He came by the next day and wondered why I didn't register. I said "I already beat you and the other guy dropped out, why spend another $100?" Funny thing is a 200 Bridgestone is legal for the class, my bike is older. I could have said it was like design if protested!!

paul

I used to race a Standard H1 Kawasaki in Production. No way were all the bikes thay used to blow me off down the straight standard. Worse was a 500 Honda at Snetterton with a woman on it. In my mind all these years thinking what has she got for an engine .

I used to run a 373 top end (half a TZ750) for the 500 class at the 3 Sisters, when I got my new 350F I suddenly realised the night before the meeting when swapping over that the carbs wouldn't fit on the 373 top end on this bike because there was a frame brace in the way, so I made up some short of extensions to the inlet rubbers to get around it.

All seemed well when I fired it up but when I went out in first practice the next day the bike wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding, it was dog slow, so we hurriedly converted it back to a 350 which made it technically undersized, anyway I led the race all the way but was under huge pressure throughout from one of the local circuit specialists, going into the final corner on the 10th and final lap I had it in the bag but I had to run off line to lap a slower rider, in doing so I got onto the dirty stuff losing the front end and going down in sight of the flag, it served me right I suppose!!

Edited by Paul Collins, 02 March 2020 - 10:51.

Fablon 500? Me? Never!