Australian Super 5000 Series

has that anything to do with the Prodrive team owned by Dave Richards?

Previously, yes.

Not anymore, it was purchased by local racing enthusiast (ex- and current gentleman racers)/business owners.

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 01 November 2017 - 07:07.

I don't really follow what's going on...I thought the two series had merged and they were going to use the Supercars version...

 

But the Swift based FT5000 is still running after all (it's V8 sounds way better incidentally)

Well the Supercars version Super5000 looks nearly undrivable   , while the FT5000 version seems to be a gem -- well sorted machine, so I hope they reconsider that! 

I haven't really been following this as it's developed really, the Thunder 5000 etc, so I'm not exactly full of knowledge about it.

But....can I just say, that looking ****ing wonderful. I love it. What a good idea.

I don't think that series will ever happen. Or will just have 10 cars or something like that and will be folded after 3 years or something like that.

As nice such a series would be.

S5000 makes public debut

The all-new race car is based around a carbon-fibre monocoque built by French firm Onroak-Ligier and powered by a five litre 560hp V8 Ford Coyote engine that is fitted to a Holinger six-speed sequential transaxle. The drivetrain, which will power 17 inch rear wheels, is an updated version of the system originally used by the Formula Thunder 5000 prototype. The car carries full 2018 FIA safety certification.

S5000 Car Specification

The hell?  That doesn't sound like a V8 much, does it?... and why did they have to make it so ugly-boxy? 

The hell?  That doesn't sound like a V8 much, does it?... and why did they have to make it so ugly-boxy? 

Sounds pretty much like the cars i heard at Laguna Seca this august. Maybe in need of some fine tuning though

Regarding the looks, i am sorry, but i have to agree you. Maybe the design is not the final one..

Formula 5000 @ Laguna Seca (the hair on my arms stood up when i heard them on site)

The 5000s look 5000 times better!!  No idea why they dropped that previous concept where they emulate this look.

The exterior engine sounds are great, imagine 20 cars going at once!  But cockpit audio should be improved, all we're getting is the transmission - they need a mic by the exhaust too.

Visuals - yeah, bit of an ugly duckling.  Doesn't have the grace of a "pretty" car, but perhaps it's to save costs in manufacture.  If that brings more teams in then so be it.

One concern is it looks a bit slow in the street circuit layout.  I'm just too spoiled by F1, maybe more suspension tuning and a better driver will show it off more effectively.

The exterior engine sounds are great, imagine 20 cars going at once!  But cockpit audio should be improved, all we're getting is the transmission - they need a mic by the exhaust too.

 

Visuals - yeah, bit of an ugly duckling.  Doesn't have the grace of a "pretty" car, but perhaps it's to save costs in manufacture.  If that brings more teams in then so be it.

 

One concern is it looks a bit slow in the street circuit layout.  I'm just too spoiled by F1, maybe more suspension tuning and a better driver will show it off more effectively.

Looked cumbersome tbh, although IDK whether that was Murph staying within his limits. 

The Formula Thunder cars seemed to have much sharper turn-in. 

Looks like they're getting ready to start building them... any news on who's actually going to be (or wants to be) competing? 

^Thanks for the updates. Too bad they do not appear to be going with higher airboxes. It would have been a unique, differentiating visual element and a nod to the original F5000 series.

I like that No.5 Valvoline car. Takes me back to Robby Gordon and Gil de Ferran in their Walker Racing days in CART.

Pretty much lost enthusiasm for this series once the decided to go with the bloated Formula 3 looking car.  Has anybody actually signed up to race it yet?

I don't see the series starts in September as scheduled. No drivers and teams confirmed yet...

Villeneuve?  Oh crap.  He'd run 2 races and then throw the towel, like he's done a few times with other series now.

If they want someone high-profile, put Mark Webber in the car.  Or at least Ryan Briscoe.

The only problem with getting Webber is that he is done with racing - he doesn't even hold a competition licence anymore...

would be nice to see Villeneuve there but I doubt it.

The only problem with getting Webber is that he is done with racing - he doesn't even hold a competition licence anymore...

Yeah, that occurred to me, too... and might not be in the best of racing shape anymore, accordingly.

Why not Alonso? 

https://www.carsales...0-debut-119943/

Organisers looking to have a high profile driver available when the cars debut, with Villeneuve and Button being suggested.

Not ex-F1, but I wonder if that might be a place for Simona de Silvestro? She was pretty good in big single-setaers, horrid in V8 Supercars and reportedly has a good relationship with her high-profile sponsor Harvey Norman?

Not ex-F1, but I wonder if that might be a place for Simona de Silvestro? She was pretty good in big single-setaers, horrid in V8 Supercars and reportedly has a good relationship with her high-profile sponsor Harvey Norman?

Love that idea... she did so well in Formula-type cars, and has been bleeding profusely when racing under a roof... make it so! 

For the first race they could just make it a novelty event with the current supercar drivers, or at least the endurance co-drivers/retired drivers. Of course it would have to become a proper series for the next race with dedicated drivers (and maybe some guys who can’t get a full time supercar drive may stick with it), but at least it would grab some attention to start with to get the profile up.

There are plenty of local names that would grab attention. Skaife, Lowndes, Tander, etc. That has to be better than some Canadian who hasn’t won a race in over 2 decades.

Its getting promoted by a rival group to Supercars, so i would imagine there would be some roadblocks there. I think half the grid will probably be made up of those in F4 with plenty of money, given their season is already over despite usually running till November.

My mistake. I thought this was the one run by supercars?

I remember there was an original idea independent of supercars but I thought supercars took the idea.

https://www.carsales...0-debut-119943/

Organisers looking to have a high profile driver available when the cars debut, with Villeneuve and Button being suggested.

 
Barrichello, apparently... 
https://www.motorspo...tralia/4513874/

What are the aims/intended audience/outlook for this series? Is it literally just an F3 car...except it's got a 5.0 litre V8 for some reason? 

What are the aims/intended audience/outlook for this series? Is it literally just an F3 car...except it's got a 5.0 litre V8 for some reason? 

That's correct.  It also has wider tyres, a Holinger sequential transaxle (instead of the usual F3 box: Hewland? and probably much smaller and lighter) and less underbody aero (instead, a larger rear wing).

Personally, I think using a F3 tub is no issue at all.  A tub, is a tub, is a tub.  They are all much the same.

A mistake however, is having such a incredibly low level of downforce.     The whole point of a F3000 or GP2 or Indycar type Formula car is that it has a good amount of downforce.  Downforce is free grip.  Free grip is king! This car, however, has hardly any downforce at all which is a pity.

Above Lotus T125 shows how you design a diffuser to maximise free aero grip!  Downforce FTW! 

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 15 August 2019 - 21:14.

Lack of uber downforce is deliberate, considered policy.  For the spectacle.  As anyone who has followed the development of this series/car should know.

You may not like this policy, in which case please feel free to develop your own car, and start your own series.  And start your own thread.

So looks like Boobens Barrichello will be racing in the inaugural event.  Not a bad signing! 

Barrichello is a nice fit. Let's see who else will join the grid – especially for full-time. It's not far to the season opener.

Only 350 kg more than 90's F1 cars.

Edited by BiggestBuddyLazierFan, 16 August 2019 - 13:22.

Lack of uber downforce is deliberate, considered policy.  For the spectacle.  As anyone who has followed the development of this series/car should know.

The idea that a car that corners at 1.8 g's is "more spectacular" than a car that corners at 3 g 's, makes no sense whatsoever.    John Martin himself commented on the severe lack of cornering grip of the S5000 compared to the F3000-type A1GP car he had raced previously.

By comparison to the Indycar's 3 g's, an F1 car corners at up to 5 g's, and that's why the F1 is truly spectacular around places like Silverstone. 

Yes, the four wheel drifts of F1 in the seventies were nice, but those were due to using crossply tyres.  The S5000 will run radial tyres (as F1 has used since 1980), so S5000 won't four wheel drift through turns, they just won't. 

The idea low downforce = four wheel drifts everywhere is just plain wrong, for that you need to specify crossply tyres.  Low downforce, just means a slow, ponderous race car that lumbers through the corners instead of blitzing through them.

Edited by V8 Fireworks, 16 August 2019 - 16:55.

The idea that a car that corners at 1.8 g's is "more spectacular" than a car that corners at 3 g 's, makes no sense whatsoever.    John Martin himself commented on the severe lack of cornering grip of the S5000 compared to the F3000-type A1GP car he had raced previously.

 

By comparison to the Indycar's 3 g's, an F1 car corners at up to 5 g's, and that's why the F1 is truly spectacular around places like Silverstone. 

 

Yes, the four wheel drifts of F1 in the seventies were nice, but those were due to using crossply tyres.  The S5000 will run radial tyres (as F1 has used since 1980), so S5000 won't four wheel drift through turns, they just won't. 

 

The idea low downforce = four wheel drifts everywhere is just plain wrong, for that you need to specify crossply tyres.  Low downforce, just means a slow, ponderous race car that lumbers through the corners instead of blitzing through them.

All fair points, but there is plenty on the other side too.  This is about more than just drifting

Indycar decreased overall downforce by 20% for 2018 and I think the overall spectacle was improved, even if the cornering speed is now lower.  Braking zones got longer and a bit more skill dependent.  Lower grip out of corners means acceleration is a bit more skill dependent too.  These things have created more opportunities for drivers to make moves.  And we get to watch the cars dance while braking and squirm under throttle out of the corners, and watch the drivers saw at the wheel to catch their cars.  

High downforce is at the heart of the issues with F1 according to many, including F1's own "Overtaking Working Group" from 10 years ago that recommended a 50% reduction!.  Imagine if drivers actually struggled to keep it flat through some of those Silvertstone corners   It doesn't help that F1 rarely uses camera angles that actually convey the speed well

A lot of this seems to depend on if you want to prioritize wowing people with raw speed or captivating people with tension and drama.  I do want both, but there does seem to be some inherent dichotomy as downforce increases

washouts from yesteryear

Seems like Barrichello is just a one-off "guest star" entry to gain some extra attention for the debut race, and won't be racing the full season.  I would expect the rest of the field to be comprised of "current" drivers from the AustralAsiaNZ region.  But very curious who will in fact enter.  14 cars doesn't sound like a lot, but I guess can't expect too much at this point.

I will be interested to see how this series fares. Could tell us a few things about the present and future of motorsport - namely is there a place for this kind of low cost, ICE single seater (in a world where even IndyCar thinks it now needs to be 'hybrid'). Or indeed it could end up being very inconclusive to that aspect for all sorts of reasons. I'm open minded and making no presumption either way. 

Using the 5.0L V8 from the Supercars is obviously convenient and of course will be much appreciated by those who like that sort of thing (does nothing for me though). It's trying to be low-cost, which makes sense regarding the engines and F3 chassis, and I presume aiming to tap into the existing Supercars audience? An Australian IndyCar? 

I think what I'm asking is by what conditions would this series deem itself to be successful? That seems like the most appropriate reference to go by. 

Edited by Ben1445, 17 August 2019 - 21:07.

This thread is makin' me hungry...

They're using the FT5000 engines, which were the Mustang based engine, not the Super 5000 engines that were the Supercars engines.