Ferrari made a big mistake not signing RIC

I understand Leclerc is considered a mega talent but certainly Ferrari have to understand Vettel's psyche by now.  If he (Vettel) is not favored then he simply cannot thrive.  A driver pairing of RIC and LEC is stronger than VET and LEC.  I understand Ferrari at the time may have thought to keep continuity for car development but honestly Ferrari know how to build a car, they should have signed RIC and dumped Vettel.  Or at the very least paried RIC and VET for one year before deciding to boot VET.

I am convinced that 2019 will be VET's last season.  When he is gone, who will Ferrari turn to then?  

Yep, imho they got rid of the wrong guy ... or I should probably say they should have gotten rid of 1 more guy.

Edited by AustinF1, 08 November 2018 - 19:26.

I don't think that Ferrari would have problems in finding a driver, especially if they keep building strong cars like in the past two seasons!

Edited by steferrari, 08 November 2018 - 19:25.

If Vettel doesn't win the championship in 2019 with a car capable of winning the championship, I see him being replaced. 

 

He will be under a lot of pressure to deliver next year. 

I agree that they should have signed RIC. I have high hopes for LEC, but if the 2019 car is capable of a WDC challenge, then RIC is ready straight away. I don't think he would suffer the same mistakes under pressure as VET.

Yep, imho they got rid of the wrong guy ... or I should probably say they should have gotten rid of 1 more guy.

When was the last time Ferrari changed both drivers at the same time?

Vettel's issue isn't his speed, it's his mental game. If Ferrari is to be believed, they're taking the steps they need to address this next year. Clearly they see attempting to fix the issues as less risky than taking aboard another driver. And let's face it: if they don't want Vettel, Alonso will almost certainly be available next year...

When was the last time Ferrari changed both drivers at the same time?

Probably never. Doesn't change a thing for me though. I do get the feeling Vettel is on his way out though, and that he knows it too.

Edited by AustinF1, 08 November 2018 - 19:41.

When was the last time Ferrari changed both drivers at the same time?

1996

This is all just blah blah blah untill we actually see. Could be a winning pair next year.

Probably never. Doesn't change a thing for me though. I do get the feeling Vettel is on his way out though, and that he knows it too.

Vettels current contract ends in 2020 so he isn’t going anywhere.

Vettels current contract ends in 2020 so he isn’t going anywhere.

Maybe, but we've seen Ferrari contracts ended prematurely in the past ...

 

In the words of Ferrari great Kimi Raikkonen, WeWillSee.

Vetel such a waste of time.

Vettel is Ferrari's problem for me. In that you have two pretty much equal cars at the front of the grid, one is driven by one of the sports all time greatest drivers, someone who can pull something incredible out of the bag soon as look at you, and the other driven by a guy who's clearly as fast on his day but has spent the last few years proving that's he's really not one of the sport's all time greatest drivers....

So Ferrari need to upgrade their #1 driver ideally. But....is that man someone who's just been tonked by Max Verstappen?

They want to win the title, they need either a significant car advantage (not yet), they need Hamilton to retire or they need Hamilton.

They likely didn't want to risk losing Leclerc to another team. And the noises from Ferrari seem to be that they view 2019 as a learning year for Leclerc (as in "know your place") so they still have their eggs in the Vettel basket and aren't writing off that substantial investment yet.

This is all just blah blah blah untill we actually see. Could be a winning pair next year.

+1

TBH, I'm a bit baffled that Ricciardo remains so highly regarded by some people. He is of course a very good driver but I don't think his 2018 season really supports the notion that he is so good that Ferrari should get him at all cost. I don't know if people do not realise how much he was outpaced by Verstappen over the year? Of all drivers on the grid, only Ericsson and Vandoorne were outqualified by their team-mates by a bigger margin on average and it's not like in the races Max wouldn't be quicker most of the time as well. Ricciardo just wasn't good enough this year to make a claim for being a deserved upgrade over a number 1 driver in a team with possibly the fastest car on the grid.

Vettel is Ferrari's problem for me. In that you have two pretty much equal cars at the front of the grid, one is driven by one of the sports all time greatest drivers, someone who can pull something incredible out of the bag soon as look at you, and the other driven by a guy who's clearly as fast on his day but has spent the last few years proving that's he's really not one of the sport's all time greatest drivers....

So Ferrari need to upgrade their #1 driver ideally. But....is that man someone who's just been tonked by Max Verstappen?

They want to win the title, they need either a significant car advantage (not yet), they need Hamilton to retire or they need Hamilton.

Best guy to come out of STR in 10 years is Buemi.

Riccy probably 2nd.

Best guy to come out of STR in 10 years is Buemi.

Riccy probably 2nd.

And Vettel a consecutive 4X WDC is a nobody in your eyes?...Good grief!

Ah, the weekly anti Vettel circle jerk thread.

Vettel's issue isn't his speed, it's his mental game. If Ferrari is to be believed, they're taking the steps they need to address this next year. Clearly they see attempting to fix the issues as less risky than taking aboard another driver. And let's face it: if they don't want Vettel, Alonso will almost certainly be available next year...

Alonso back at Ferrari?...I don't think so.Me thinks he burnt that bridge good and proper.

When it was decision-time (Ricciardo signed with Renault in early August, right?), Ferrari hadn't even decisively dumped Raikkonen yet, so sacking a driver with a valid contract till the end of 2020 wasn't really in question. Also in summer-time Vettel's championship campaign hadn't completely collapsed, he was still within a few points of Hamilton.

 

And as mentioned by some, Ricciardo isn't probably #1 driver, who Ferrari would hire if they could get absolutely anyone and everybody was available on the market. Number one options would probably be Hamilton and Verstappen. They could just as well take a gamble on Leclerc and hope that he would become their long-term team leader, if it was a choice between him and Ricciardo.

Edited by sopa, 08 November 2018 - 20:19.

Best guy to come out of STR in 10 years is Buemi.

 

Ehm, how? Buemi didn't beat Bourdais the same way Vettel did, and he got outscored by Alguersuari.

That would have gone down well with Vettel...

Alonso back at Ferrari?...I don't think so.Me thinks he burnt that bridge good and proper.

 

What did he do?

Probably never. Doesn't change a thing for me though. I do get the feeling Vettel is on his way out though, and that he knows it too.

Wishful thinking on your part mate. Vettell right up there at the top of the F1  tree with Hamilton and Verstappen. You dont become a 4X world champion at a tender age without being seriously good at your craft.

Edited by Fatgadget, 08 November 2018 - 20:42.

What did he do?

Burnt bridges that's what he did!. Wasn't you around when he was vocally  rubbishing Ferrari on his way to Macca back in 2013/14?

Wishful thinking on your part mate. Vettell right up there at the top of the tree with Hamilton and Verstappen.

Yeah, well, I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that. I don't dislike Seb though, he seems like a nice enough guy.

Best guy to come out of STR in 10 years is Buemi.

Riccy probably 2nd.

 

I suppose you mean best at Formula E. I agree then

If Vettel doesn't win the championship in 2019 with a car capable of winning the championship, I see him being replaced. 

 

He will be under a lot of pressure to deliver next year. 

 

If Vettel doesn't win the championship in 2019, but beats Leclerc, he won't be sacked.

 

Imagine Vettel finished 2nd in WDC and Leclerc 3rd (or 4th). That would do enough for him to save his place at least from Ferrari's point of view I guess.

 

Vettel's biggest battle next year is against his team-mate. He would need to get beaten by LEC to get a (possible) sack. And even in this case it's questionable, who would Ferrari replace him with. Unless Hamilton, Verstappen or Ricciardo have clauses in their contracts, which would let them to leave their team early.

Wow, give it a rest with this overreaction already...

A driver pairing of RIC and LEC is stronger than VET and LEC.

 

Neither have existed. We don't know that.

 

Meanwhile at Red Bull, Ricciardo seems to have a couple of issues of his own. Which is probably part of the reason he's heading down deeper into the midfield rather than up the grid.

Best guy to come out of STR in 10 years is Buemi.
Riccy probably 2nd.

Buemi has grown. He's a very complete driver these days, one of the best in the world who's not in F1, easily. Great WEC drivers aren't necessarily great single seater drivers (look at Neel Jani's FE disaster) but I have no doubt if Buemi had returned to STR for 2019 he'd have done a great job and I wanted to see it happen tbh.

But when he was in F1 he wasn't much cop. He was quick, but limited. His racecraft was weak, he drifted off the pace mid way through stints, he didn't maximise in and out laps, he was inconsistent, drove Toro Rosso mad didn't he? By the end of 2011 he was routinely getting outraced by Alguersuari, wasn't really improving on his weaknesses and was ditched.

I think subsequently his role as test driver for RB and his education in the WEC have improved him hugely.

Edited by messy, 08 November 2018 - 21:01.

Based on how much quicker Max was the last two years than him Ricciardo gets a bit too much credit in this debate.

We'll see how it pans out. Maybe Leclerc wont be competetive enough and maybe Ferrari will be even better and maybe Vettel will win the title. That's the alternate option to the proposed scenario. And perhaps even more likely.

While I do think that this entire talk about Ferrari not giving him enough support is a bit BS (I mean, lets face it, he has done plenty mistakes regardless of how he was supported in the past and drivers in his position also did it better) I dont think that so many drivers would do a much better job than him. Not only in general, but also in the current season: He is quick, maybe not quite with Hamilton's highs, but he its overall close in that ballpark. He lacks consistency in stringing clean races together, always did a bit. Now how many drivers tick off both boxes? Hamilton, maybe Alonso...then it becomes debatable. Leclerc can certainly become one, Max too, but fact of the matter is that based on this season they arent yet either. And Ricciardo with his pace rn neither.

That's not to say that Ferrari is going to be lost next year as well. Vettel can drive better than this for sure and Hamilton can also drive worse than he did this season (ha!). And then there is also the car development. Let's call it a mistake if its actually happening.

Here we go again... 

They may have made a bigger mistake years ago when they took Kimi back instead of giving Hulk a chance. At least we will find out how Ric & Hulk stack up next year.

Burnt bridges that's what he did!. Wasn't you around when he was vocally  rubbishing Ferrari on his way to Macca back in 2013/14?

 

I don't know, you tell me what he did. But I doubt he burned bridges with Ferrari. Honda on the other hand, and Horner would never take him. But I don't think Ferrari have anything against him now.

Maybe, but we've seen Ferrari contracts ended prematurely in the past ...

In the words of Ferrari great Kimi Raikkonen, WeWillSee.

You may want to look at Vettel's salary to be sure that this one will not end prematurely.

Vettel's issue isn't his speed, it's his mental game. If Ferrari is to be believed, they're taking the steps they need to address this next year. Clearly they see attempting to fix the issues as less risky than taking aboard another driver. And let's face it: if they don't want Vettel, Alonso will almost certainly be available next year...

 

The problem for Vettel is he seems to get worse under pressure and he hates sharing a team. Leclerc has shown some wild potential and he has realistically been placed there as Vettel's replacement. he is not there to be their number 2. 

 

I could realistically see Seb out of that team at the end of next year, either into retirement or back to Red Bull.

 

The problem at Red Bull for him will be clear though.

Burnt bridges that's what he did!

I understand Leclerc is considered a mega talent but certainly Ferrari have to understand Vettel's psyche by now. If he (Vettel) is not favored then he simply cannot thrive. A driver pairing of RIC and LEC is stronger than VET and LEC. I understand Ferrari at the time may have thought to keep continuity for car development but honestly Ferrari know how to build a car, they should have signed RIC and dumped Vettel. Or at the very least paried RIC and VET for one year before deciding to boot VET.
I am convinced that 2019 will be VET's last season. When he is gone, who will Ferrari turn to then?

I kind of agree, but I think they will rectify that mistake soon enough if Renault is a bust and Seb continues being crash-happy.

Alonso isn't openly severing his ties with F1, he's leaving just enough interest to crawl back. Talking about being a McLaren test driver? Come on. He's keeping sharp elsewhere in other series, he's keeping no secret a return MIGHT be an option. Has he fully dismissed F1 anywhere yet?

I would bet if Vettel fails again with a winning car he will be dropped / not rehired or retire. Ferrari would not hesitate to snap Alonso on a one year deal in a plug and play style. All he ever wanted was a winning car.

You wait.

 

If Ferrari have the goods and Vettel fails, who else but Alonso? He's guaranteed to deliver.

Edited by danmills, 09 November 2018 - 12:27.

When was the last time Ferrari changed both drivers at the same time?

 

I can think of two cases and in both one of the drivers was returning to the team for a second spell

 

Clay Regazzoni (back again) & Niki Lauda 

Edited by RacingGreen, 08 November 2018 - 23:28.

Neither have existed. We don't know that.

 

Meanwhile at Red Bull, Ricciardo seems to have a couple of issues of his own. Which is probably part of the reason he's heading down deeper into the midfield rather than up the grid.

 

Any driver on the grid would have issues with team verstappen & management right now. That goes for alonso & hamilton too.

 

You saw how annoyed Jos got that Ricciardo dared to celebrate his pole and how upset Marko looked in the garage.

Edited by lbennie, 08 November 2018 - 23:50.

Any driver on the grid would have issues with team verstappen & management right now. That goes for alonso & hamilton too.

 

You saw how annoyed Jos got that Ricciardo dared to celebrate his pole and how upset Marko looked in the garage.

 

Ric is better off at Renault, Ferrari is currently above his pay grade.

Edited by YoungGun, 09 November 2018 - 00:01.

Did you mean to quote me brother?

Vettel is still a good driver....and LeClerc could be the next big thing after Verstappen. But it's just mindboggling that Alonso and Ric were available and at the end of the day one is driving for Renault and one is leaving F1. Doesn't feel right. 

Burnt bridges that's what he did!. Wasn't you around when he was vocally  rubbishing Ferrari on his way to Macca back in 2013/14?

 

If I asked you to quote Alonso bashing Ferrari in public, you would say to do your own research.  I would say you're making up things about Alonso without proof, again.

Ric is better off at Renault, Ferrari is currently above his pay grade.

 

Then what is Vettel doing in a Ferrari?  Ricciardo waxed the floor with Vettel in the same car.